Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[Shyheels]

Yes, they are definitely plug ugly. 

[Gudulitooo]

A rock star. Not that bad if you read the textes.

http://www.teenvogue.com/gallery/harry-styles-boots

 

Edit  : for some reason I can only browse this site with my smartphone. Neither Firefox nor IE will show the article. I will post an updated link as soon as it is repaired.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Gudulitooo
appears differently on a computer

[kneehighs]

Dominik Schneider

https://www.instagram.com/oldschool_boy_79/

[kneehighs]

https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/beta/u/0/theme/iQJCgMgwSKV5Kw

[kneehighs]

Here's another article about Men in Heels from W Magazine.  W is a respected industry staple in the fashion industry.

http://www.wmagazine.com/fashion/2016/07/men-in-heels-dsquared-fashion-trend-spring-2017/photos/slide/1

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by kneehighs

[Thighbootguy]

I really like the idea that the official fashion world is starting to put heels on men but...  how is it that the (non fashion model) women can wear heeled boots and look really great, but when the fashion folks put heels on men, the men look awful?

I have been playing guitar in jam sessions around the city for a year now and I always wear a pair of boots. I wear knee highs that have flat, block 3-4" and stiletto 4" heels and I have even worn a pair of thigh high boots with 5" stilettos.  I think they look pretty good and I haven't had one negative glance or comment but I wouldn't go out dressed like one of the guys in the "W" article's pictures.

As an aside, last night one of the gals at the jam, who hadn't seen me for a while, commented that she really liked my boots (fabric black knee highs with a 3" block heel) but went on that they weren't the same pair you was wearing the last time I saw you.  One of the guys who was there the last time she saw me chimed in (in a good natured fashion), "No, he was wearing is stilettos then."  That was the first time anyone had commented on the fact I've been wearing boots.

[Jkrenzer]

If that's a guy in the photo I would be surprised and great "he" is wearing real heels. Great article never the less. 

[swedeheeler]

Never under estimate an make up artist @Jkrenzer

[Shyheels]

Men in heels, or tall boots, are never portrayed in any way a regular guy on the street would ever be able to relate to, or want to relate to. It is invariably some weird androgynous look - unpleasantly militaristic, in a 25th century sort of way, if it's tall boots. Or else, if its boots, the boots are huge clumpy platformed monstrosities that could really only sensibly be worn by an actor playing Frankenstein.   

[mlroseplant]

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Men in heels, or tall boots, are never portrayed in any way a regular guy on the street would ever be able to relate to, or want to relate to. It is invariably some weird androgynous look. . .   

My thoughts exactly. They always look weird. I'm sure that the general public might describe any one of us using that word, but I guarantee that we look better than these guys. 

[pebblesf]

Well, I guess most any press showing guys in heels is helpful, even if the not all the fashions are helpful to the cause.  I agree, more press showing every day guys in heels/boots would be helpful, hopefully this will happen in time...

[Shyheels]

I am not sure if it is helpful, not if it reinforces existing stereotypes.

The trouble with fashion photography and with designers as well is that they are looking for shock value, seeking attention. Subtlety and nuance seem to have been left behind. At present I cannot imagine a show, or a shoot, in which men in heels, or wearing boots, would be presented in an understated everyday context.

[kneehighs]

6 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I am not sure if it is helpful, not if it reinforces existing stereotypes.

The trouble with fashion photography and with designers as well is that they are looking for shock value, seeking attention. Subtlety and nuance seem to have been left behind. At present I cannot imagine a show, or a shoot, in which men in heels, or wearing boots, would be presented in an understated everyday context.

That's only party true.  And it's a negative way of framing the truth too.  Fashion photographers and designers are seeking to inspire first and foremost.  Shock value isn't necessary to inspire.

If what people are looking for is fast fashion companies like Zara or TopShop to pioneer the commercialization of men in heels in an "understated everyday context" it will never happen.  Fast fashion takes it's cues from the runway.  So like it or not, the runway examples are a start.  

 

[Shyheels]

It is a start that will go precisely nowhere if they do not speak to the man on the street. Men do not exactly have a history of taking fashion cues from the runway. Secondly, selling the idea of men in heels is not the same as deciding the look this spring should be floaty instead of pants suits, or that chartreuse should be the new black. The social bias against men in heels runs very deep and broad, and strikes at the very core of masculinity. And when it comes to questioning their/our masculinity, men are an extremely conservative bunch - for a whole lot of deeply ingrained reasons, not least of which is the fact that most women have bought into this same social bias.

So attempting to effect a radical change by playing up to the very same weird, gay, or androgynous stereotypes most men want to avoid at all costs - and which most rank and file women would prefer they avoided as well - is not going to succeed. It is not a start. It is merely self indulgence by a few precious fashion designers.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Shyheels

[Heelster]

13 hours ago, Shyheels said:

It is a start that will go precisely nowhere if they do not speak to the man on the street. Men do not exactly have a history of taking fashion cues from the runway. Secondly, selling the idea of men in heels is not the same as deciding the look this spring should be floaty instead of pants suits, or that chartreuse should be the new black. The social bias against men in heels runs very deep and broad, and strikes at the very core of masculinity. And when it comes to questioning their/our masculinity, men are an extremely conservative bunch - for a whole lot of deeply ingrained reasons, not least of which is the fact that most women have bought into this same social bias.

So attempting to effect a radical change by playing up to the very same weird, gay, or androgynous stereotypes most men want to avoid at all costs - and which most rank and file women would prefer they avoided as well - is not going to succeed. It is not a start. It is merely self indulgence by a few precious fashion designers.

I'm gonna have to agree with you on this in a multitude of ways. I don't see the fashion industry having a positive, or for that matter, any affect on the male population when it comes down too it. Most men don't buy fashion - - Period.

The way to get fashion ideas into the men's world is to get the women to want their men to wear a specific fashion. Get the women to buy into a concept, and then some of the men will follow along. If you get the wife to want to have the husband wearing something new in design, chances are it may happen.

Concept:  His and her kilts - matching shoes (his not as high, but not flat) - Matching shorts - Boots - 

When stores like JC Penney, H&M, Hot Topic(Torrid), and Target get the women of the world to coax the men forward, you'll have a movement. Otherwise, all the fashion on the runway goes nowhere.

Another way - - Get the Cleveland Cav's or the Ohio State Buckey's to wear and endorse a style - - Jackpot!!

[kneehighs]

15 hours ago, Shyheels said:

It is a start that will go precisely nowhere if they do not speak to the man on the street. Men do not exactly have a history of taking fashion cues from the runway. Secondly, selling the idea of men in heels is not the same as deciding the look this spring should be floaty instead of pants suits, or that chartreuse should be the new black. The social bias against men in heels runs very deep and broad, and strikes at the very core of masculinity. And when it comes to questioning their/our masculinity, men are an extremely conservative bunch - for a whole lot of deeply ingrained reasons, not least of which is the fact that most women have bought into this same social bias.

So attempting to effect a radical change by playing up to the very same weird, gay, or androgynous stereotypes most men want to avoid at all costs - and which most rank and file women would prefer they avoided as well - is not going to succeed. It is not a start. It is merely self indulgence by a few precious fashion designers.

You sound like a typical arm chair critic, like the Wizard in the Wizard of Oz.  In reality what's behind this veneer of "confidence"?  A man who only wears flat boots?  An arm chair critic without the cajones to wear heels despite having traveled to some 100+ countries globally?  These are the same tired and boring thoughts that have been repeated forever on this forum since Jenny's heels. They are the reason this forum exists.  

People in the middle like to do what people at the top like to do.  Middle class likes to do what the upper class does.  In fashion, it's called trickle down.  Thus, buyers from Zara, designers from H&M, and store managers from fast fashion take inspiration from the runway.  Runway typically sells to the top 1% of the population. 

I have hope that trickle down might work to affect change.  I would never put money that fast fashion will adapt it.  But runways get press and press gets people talking.  And don't even say it's all bad press just because you think it's bad.   I also have hope that trickle up from Millennials will affect change too.  I wouldn't put money on that either.  The way I see it, at least someone else is investing their time and money in change I'd like to see.  To me, that's encouraging.

If people have better plans other than just being armchair critics and Wizard of Oz personalities here,  they should go pitch fashion brands, ad agencies, magazine photographers, PR companies.   Do something to create the change they want to see instead of just bitch at the existing change that's happening and hiding behind a Wizard of Oz persona online.  

 

[Shyheels]

You might not care for my observations, but they can hardly be characterised as 'bitching'. As to your personal characterisations about me, I just dismiss them out of hand. You do not know a thing about me, not in any meaningful sense. All you do know is that I happen to disagree with you. I think the reasons you hear these same 'tired' thoughts that I've expressed repeated so often is that a great many other people happen to believe the same things. The real world, and that of fashion runways and social media 'likes' are two very different places. You can have weirdly dressed androgynous models strutting  heels on catwalks from now til doomsday, but unless a meaningful attempt was made along the way to engage the real world man on the street, and change the views and tastes of an overwhelming majority of their women,  it would all be for nought. 

Edited July 10, 2016 by Shyheels

[Bubba136]

There is no reason for "cross" words or disagreements.  Even, given all of the recent conversation about the LGTB community and equal rights,etc, I would bet it will still be several generations before civilization will willingly accept individual humans choosing which sex they prefer to be as well as what clothing to wear.

[hoborob]

I must completely agree with Shyheels in his observations. We have now seen male models on runways for how many years now strutting around in feminized clothing. The next question is would the average joe on the street actually wear that type of clothing and in public to boot. I have not seen it in any form as of yet. The average male populace is still walking around in work boots jeans and a T-shirt, while the white color types are still walking around in the same old business suit and oxfords. It really will not be until they displays of people wearing what they want in a fashionable way becomes commonplace that the average Joe will seriously look at this type of clothing. I have said before that when we go out in public we must present ourselves as reasonable people going about our business and not trying to be "In your face" with our clothing choices in order for that to happen.

[Heelster]

@kneehighs - - I can understand your frustration, but keep in mind I do believe you see things from a different viewpoint than most of us. You appear to have some involvement in the industry, and we don't. I see what is around me, and that gives me a very limited viewpoint. When I travel, I get to see some differences, but it's still limited. When I was in Linz Austria for a couple days, it was completely different. The fashion trickle down was evident though not drastic.

You mentioned middle class - - The middle class in the U.S. is virtually gone. We have the working class that wishes to work, and the middle class poor. Fashion is determined by the chain stores. There isn't an H&M within 30 miles of me (or more) and a vast majority of retail shopping stores / malls are dying. Matter of fact, buying a good men's suit means I'm gonna have to travel to do so. There aren't many places other than "Men's Warehouse" that carry a half decent suit.

The only store franchise that stocks when they show on the runway is Victoria's Secret. Your not going to find any of the designers from the men's fashion runway in the Midwest. Even if there might be a store in Chicago, or St Louis, - - - Who are they going to sell too. Not the guy who works in jeans and work boots.

It's been mentioned (or hinted too) that the gay guys are more fashionable. One thing my wife and I have noticed, and even discussed with a gay couple at a gay wedding was the fact that all the guys in attendance not married with children seemed to be dresses much nicer. The fellas had an answer - - - they both were working at good jobs, and had more financial means to do so. These two were clearing $75,000 plus a piece, and in the Midwest, $150,000 is a damned decent amount for a couple of guys that don't need a 3 bedroom house in a good school district. The other couples at the table all agreed with the assessment.

So - - The runway isn't realistic for me - - I can't buy it here, I can't afford it, I have nowhere to wear it.

Yes, it's a limited viewpoint, but it's the view from my front window. It's all I have to look at.

[Jkrenzer]

Agreed. My name actually is Joe and I do walk around in heels in public often while in blue jeansand a t-shirt or Polo. Why, because I like to. I don't like guys in adroginous clothes mostly because I don't think it looks good. But I wear heels because I like them. Runways will never represent the other 99%, really 99.9% and never will. There really is no such thing as new fashion anyway, today's designer's only rehash what has already been done. 

[Gudulitooo]

I think fashion industry has to present something new. But new doesn't mean good. I mean, and I already said, winning silhouettes with heels have already largely been proposed in women fashion. With the people being taller and less muscular these days, mens silhouettes tend to ressemble womens, with the same proportions, just a bit bigger. So if fast fashion wanted to propose heels for men, they would just have to pick in the already designed womenswear. I mean, that is what we do on this forum. Realize that clothes sold in our stores are fitting our silouettes nicely. Womens clothes included.

But that is not new.

Runway fashion has to propose something new. And I think not all the details of the presented outfit will be interesting. It is like evolution theory : They are in the process of try and keep what works. So they have to try many variations.

My 2 cents.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Gudulitooo

[Thighbootguy]

In the Three Stooges short "Slippery Silks", the boys were furniture designers that wound up designing clothing for a fashion show...

You never know what's going to show up on the runway. 

[Steve63130]

Gives a whole new meaning to "sharp dresser!" BWAHAHAHA!

Steve

[Sydheel]

Steve, thats worse than a dad joke !

 

 

 

but I love it !

[Puffer]

Proper ladies would never let their drawers be revealed like that!

[Rockpup]

[kneehighs]

The way I see it: "failure" is just part of the equation.  Mark Cuban doesn't make money on every investment.  Neither will the fashion industry make progress in the way the tiny population here wishes to see it.  Besides, I don't personally believe in failure. I just believe in feedback.   And personally, I like to live my hobbies from a headspace of optimism, not pessimism that drowns out all hope.  So any movement of the needle in the direction I'd like to see it go just makes me a happier person to be around.

Ultimately, the same "tired" out truths have just been repeating themself on this forum since pre-2002--the Jenny Forum era.  It's not a bad thing.  But it is one reason why I don't spend time here.  Plus, I don't get paid to recycle everyone's thoughts every 10 years to the new wave of members.  Change happens on a local scale.  It happens because people have the courage to go out and wear heels in public in their local social circles and neighborhoods.   Thighbootguy wrote about it from the Art Center.  Firefox got it when his friends would gasp, "where are your heels".  Shakedown, Calv, fogborkenev...we all went through these same discussions over a decade ago.  JeffB achieves it at the Comic Book shop and no  doubt Rittenhouse Square.  Little local changes is where it's really at.  

Regarding women,  Good Responses From Women: The Ultimate Resource has some interesting reading.  For years in my The Adventures of kneehighs thread, I talked about my adventures with women all over the world.   From Prague, to Buenos Aires, to Stockholm, I surrounded myself with some of the best looking women in the world.  Vogue cover girls. Literally.  Yes I had sex.  The heels were never a deal breaker.  Some girls even actively encouraged it.   It's really about inner state strength and learning how to attract women.  Secrets to attracting girls are definitely hidden somewhere in the thread.  

Yes, there are different parts of the world and different careers people are in.  But I say, Arctic was a C-level executive, Pam an Investment Banker.  gary0618 was an entrepreneur. Iloveboots has a supportive wife.  crotchhiboots wore heels successfully, despite his social economic class.  He lived in rural New York State.  Bubba used to speak to people with family issues regarding men wearing heels around the wife and kids and family.   Shafted wrote about his experiences working at a movie theater in Rural Maine.  

So I start and end my heeling with strong optimistic hope.  Faith breeds these little local victories.  The same faith leads me to hope that maybe that one guy from instagram with the motivation to take things to a new level will see something that inspires him to action.  Maybe change won't even happen as a result of the fashion industry!    But when I see the fashion industry taking steps towards change that I'm not paying for with my money, I applaud them.  I feel encouraged someone is at least putting their actions and time where their mouth is. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2016 by kneehighs

[Steve63130]

I like what you've written, Kneehighs, and I am optimistic, too. On a grand scale, I really don't know if the world will eventually embrace men in women's high heels, but on a personal level, I have achieved a lot of small victories, the most important being the support of my wife. I wear heels every day, and I must say I have really enjoyed wearing sandals this summer, although I never used to like them (on me or others), but I've changed and love them now. This morning we went to the coffee shop to have breakfast with friends. The adjacent table had a group of a half dozen women. I wore my Naturalizer "Dahnny" sandals in black, bootcut jeans, and a black polo shirt. I don't know if anyone in the room noticed, and I didn't care. I did see a lady look down at my feet when I stood in line for coffee, and when she looked up, I just smiled. I don't know if she really noticed the heels, or that the sandals were women's shoes, or that I had on a dusky reddish-purple pedicure. She didn't react. But I was out and about, enjoying my time in heels, and if anyone else noticed, fine; if not, that's fine too. I appreciate having given myself the freedom of wearing what I like without worrying about it anymore. It's really liberating!

Thanks to you and many others here for the encouragement to be comfortable with myself!

Steve

[RonC]

I like those sandals, Steve.  But I've found some issues with width on Naturalizers as of late.  How is the fit?