Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[Steve63130]

Ron,

They are 11W and fit pretty well. I normally take a 12M in a closed heel shoe like a pump, but can often wear an 11 in a sandal or clog. I was glad I got these in a wide width. I would like a bit more arch support, so I added a gel arch. The ball of the foot could use a little more padding but it's not bad. The leather is buttery soft and doesn't irritate my hammer toe. They are very stable and easy to walk in gracefully, and I like how they look.

Steve

[RonC]

On 7/19/2016 at 0:35 PM, Steve63130 said:

Ron,

They are 11W and fit pretty well. I normally take a 12M in a closed heel shoe like a pump, but can often wear an 11 in a sandal or clog. I was glad I got these in a wide width. I would like a bit more arch support, so I added a gel arch. The ball of the foot could use a little more padding but it's not bad. The leather is buttery soft and doesn't irritate my hammer toe. They are very stable and easy to walk in gracefully, and I like how they look.

Steve

Thanks for the info -  I am typically somewhere between and 11 and a 12, but wide is much preferred in sizes less than 12.  But I tried on a pair of their Lennox pumps and could hardly get my right foot in the 12M.  So Naturalizer has become iffy for me.  

I am finding this style to be pretty well sold out - especially in an 11W.

[HappyinHeels]

STEVE63130,

There you are adding the fashion flair with elevation in the senior's circle. Those are nice sandals indeed. No wonder you're things are going well for you at another level! Keep UP the great work. HappyinHeels

[kneehighs]

In the Fashion Industry I-D magazine is widely regarded as a independent authority.  This article, while not specific to heels, does address the seeming increased appreciation for the belief that beauty is gender free.

http://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/the-male-beauty-revolution?utm_source=idfbuk&utm_campaign=global

I found the following quote by Rinataro Okamura, head of product at Shiseido Men,  fascinating:

^{Okamura points to megatrends like the surge in men's interest in fashion over the last decade, the empowerment of women, and, consequently, their greater numbers in the workforce. "The more women a man is surrounded by daily, the more he will do to look after his appearance," explains Okamura. "Women now have more power to choose their partner, so male candidates need to work harder to make themselves attractive partners, including putting more effort into maintaining their appearance."}

Back in 2005, I posited the real reason society approves of women wearing men's clothes but not vice versa, is because upward assimilation is admired by everyone, everywhere.  By wearing heels, the patriarchy identifies with the "out of power" group.  Thus, it's downward assimilation.

Okamura's insights about women's growing financial independence are interesting.  The more money they make on their own, the less men feel pressured to conform to old patriarchal stereotypes.  I've always found Nordic girls very accepting of men in heels.  I think in part, it's due to the culture of equality in politics and money among the sexes. Conversely, I've also always found Eastern European girls very NON accepting of men in heels. Feminism never became popular in Eastern Europe like in the West.  So, there Patriarchy rules, men are men, etc.

Food for thought for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by kneehighs

[Shyheels]

I wonder about the economic and business-world argument. The more money, power and success women achieve, the more likely men would be to adhere to the traditional stereotypes, and the further entrenched these stereotypes would become. The corporate world is still very conservative, masculine and male dominated - only now women are playing in that cockpit-arena and in many cases playing the game better than the men. But their success - in stilettos and suits - does not seem likely to make traditional corporate men ease off on the machismo, still less would they be likely to emulate their up-and-coming female counterparts by adopting their look and wearing heels. They'd be more likely, in my opinion, to double down on the masculine competitive qualities that are still considered de rigueur at the top, not let women beat them at 'their' own game. And that game is still on.

I can, however, see the argument that men - some men, at least - are becoming more interested in fashion and more daring. I have read several articles by Elizabeth Semmelhack, the curator at the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto, who curated the Men in Heels exhibition there last year, as well as a travelling exhibition of 21st century sneaker culture. In stuff she has written that I have read she seemed to see the bright colours and patterns on men's trainers as indications that men were taking the first tentative steps away from their shells, and tradition, and daring to express personality in the footwear they choose. But this is leisure wear. I suspect there is much more interplay on the cards before entrenched positions on things like heels start to change in a broad popular way.      

 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Shyheels

[Rockpup]

Mom and gay son spots a guy wearing heels at Disney, mom tracks guy down to share this moment.

 

[kneehighs]

The more executive financial and political power women get, the more opportunity for skills innate to women like listening, building relationships, and working in teams have to impact broader culture.  It might not influence male co-workers to wear heels, but could create broader cultural opportunities to support values that support men wearing heels. Advertising budgets, Marketing executives, PR campaigns, judges, legislators, lobbyists etc.  

I know every individuals experience can vary, but my experience with girls in Sweden and Norway regarding men in heels is excellent.  They are almost always open minded.  The same thing goes for women in the fashion industry. Most all girls are open to the reality of men in heels.  (Attracting them is independent of wearing heels).  Both examples enjoy a stronger executive presence from women than the global cultural norm.

[Shyheels]

Scandinavian countries are generally quite tolerant right across the board. And it would not surprise me at all to learn that women in the fashion industry are open to the possibility of men in heels. The whole industry is about pushing boundaries. I would even say that creative peopke, in general, are more likely to be tolerant and open minded about men wearing boots/heels.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Shyheels

[Rick24]

unfortunately, there is too much pressure for men to wear heels, females want males to wear what they deem as satisfactory,  so there is no free thinking for men, as a guy who wears heels, I make that decision for myself to wear them, the heel industry are the biggest hypocrites of all, they say there open and creative, but there not, its all for one gender,  and it makes the heel industry sell to very self-centered people, its the same with celebs and TV shows, they don't want an ordinary guy to wear heels because it upsets there bubble, they want a guy who wears heels but is very eccentric, that's what they feed to the viewers, we have an industry that sells to one gender only, there is no equality in it,none want to show that guys who have wives or girlfriends or have children, are like any other man, they want to label us with really silly things.

[JeffB]

19 hours ago, Rockpup said:

Mom and gay son spots a guy wearing heels at Disney, mom tracks guy down to share this moment.

 

I found that to have been absolutely remarkable.

[Rockpup]

He studied nuclear engineering at MIT amd is a nuclear policy analyst. His FB shows quite a few pics of him in heels, it is fairly obvious he just wears whatever he wants. Good to see others are out there 'just doing it'

http://sdgln.com/news/2016/06/07/sam-brinton-talks-about-wearing-heels-walt-disney-world-inspiring-young-gay-child

Edited August 26, 2016 by Rockpup

[Thighbootguy]

@Rockpup-  Thanks for the follow up post.  It is great the things are going well for Sam, that could easily not be the case.

[Heelster]

6 hours ago, Rockpup said:

He studied nuclear engineering at MIT amd is a nuclear policy analyst. His FB shows quite a few pics of him in heels, it is fairly obvious he just wears whatever he wants. Good to see others are out there 'just doing it'

http://sdgln.com/news/2016/06/07/sam-brinton-talks-about-wearing-heels-walt-disney-world-inspiring-young-gay-child

Good find - - 

[pebblesf]

What a loving Mom indeed! 

[JeffB]

On 8/26/2016 at 9:54 AM, Rockpup said:

He studied nuclear engineering at MIT amd is a nuclear policy analyst. His FB shows quite a few pics of him in heels, it is fairly obvious he just wears whatever he wants. Good to see others are out there 'just doing it'

http://sdgln.com/news/2016/06/07/sam-brinton-talks-about-wearing-heels-walt-disney-world-inspiring-young-gay-child

Pretty darn cool!

[mlroseplant]

I agree, this is pretty darn cool, but there's one thing I can't quite understand, and maybe someone could explain this to me: How is the way this man is dressed inspiring to a young gay boy? I am often seen out and about dressed not-too-dissimilar from this man. Could I in fact be an inspiration to a young gay boy, even though I am not gay? It seems like sexual orientation is getting confused with mere fashion choices.

[Sydheel]

8 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

I agree, this is pretty darn cool, but there's one thing I can't quite understand, and maybe someone could explain this to me: How is the way this man is dressed inspiring to a young gay boy? I am often seen out and about dressed not-too-dissimilar from this man. Could I in fact be an inspiration to a young gay boy, even though I am not gay? It seems like sexual orientation is getting confused with mere fashion choices.

I think that is one of the biggest issues many here face. 

Society stereotypes heel + man = gay in general

so to answer your Q. 

You may inspire a gay person to express themselves and wear what they like. But your not inspiring the 'gay' part, you are inspiring the shoe wearing part. 

And at the same time you may be inspiring a straight man to also wear heels. 

At the end of the day I don't think it matters what we intend but if it has a good effect then roll with it

i hope that this made some sense. I haven't finished my first coffee this morning so im not responsible for my comments 

james

[Shyheels]

Gay or a crossdresser.

And generally an inaccurate presumption, but with plenty of unwanted inescapable social baggage.

It is a crushing irony that for those who have made the bold decision to express themselves through fashion - to be who they are - are then widely perceived to be precisely who they are not...And more so than if they had never taken the bold step in the first place.  

[Gudulitooo]

21 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

I agree, this is pretty darn cool, but there's one thing I can't quite understand, and maybe someone could explain this to me: How is the way this man is dressed inspiring to a young gay boy? I am often seen out and about dressed not-too-dissimilar from this man. Could I in fact be an inspiration to a young gay boy, even though I am not gay? It seems like sexual orientation is getting confused with mere fashion choices.

 

He inspired a boy, period.

 

Only the journalist thought it was necessary to precise "gay", and I am sure it is only to be sure not to startle the readers.

 

[Gudulitooo]

21 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

I agree, this is pretty darn cool, but there's one thing I can't quite understand, and maybe someone could explain this to me: How is the way this man is dressed inspiring to a young gay boy? I am often seen out and about dressed not-too-dissimilar from this man. Could I in fact be an inspiration to a young gay boy, even though I am not gay? It seems like sexual orientation is getting confused with mere fashion choices.

 

He inspired a boy, period.

 

Only the journalist thought it was necessary to precise "gay", and I am sure it is only to be sure not to startle the readers.

 

[Gudulitooo]

21 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

I agree, this is pretty darn cool, but there's one thing I can't quite understand, and maybe someone could explain this to me: How is the way this man is dressed inspiring to a young gay boy? I am often seen out and about dressed not-too-dissimilar from this man. Could I in fact be an inspiration to a young gay boy, even though I am not gay? It seems like sexual orientation is getting confused with mere fashion choices.

 

He inspired a boy, period.

 

Only the journalist thought it was necessary to precise "gay", and I am sure it is only to be sure not to startle the readers.

 

[kneehighs]

On 8/25/2016 at 2:27 PM, Shyheels said:

Scandinavian countries are generally quite tolerant right across the board. And it would not surprise me at all to learn that women in the fashion industry are open to the possibility of men in heels. The whole industry is about pushing boundaries. I would even say that creative peopke, in general, are more likely to be tolerant and open minded about men wearing boots/heels.

The findings from this Harvard Business School study: The Red Sneakers Effect: Inferring Status and Competence from Signals of Nonconformity SILVIA BELLEZZA FRANCESCA GINO ANAT KEINAN would support that:

"In sum, the results of study 4 shed light on the interactions between the underlying processes of the red sneakers effect. Need for uniqueness moderated both the direct effect of nonconformity on status inferences (dependent variable) and the first stage of the indirect effect of nonconformity on perceived sense of autonomy (mediator), suggesting that participants high in need for uniqueness attributed higher status and competence and heightened sense of autonomy in response to nonconformity signals, relative to participants with low levels of need for uniqueness."

 

[Shyheels]

Interesting - although as a writer I would add that whoever wrote such a convoluted, over-torqued sentence has an exceptionally high need to inject clarity of expression into his/her report writing!

[Thighbootguy]

A most interesting read.  We should make the rallying cry of HHPLACE "Nonconformist Unite"

[Puffer]

4 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Interesting - although as a writer I would add that whoever wrote such a convoluted, over-torqued sentence has an exceptionally high need to inject clarity of expression into his/her report writing!

I agree on all counts.   And it was so full of buzzwords that I can see why it appealed to kneehighs!

[kneehighs]

15 hours ago, Thighbootguy said:

A most interesting read.  We should make the rallying cry of HHPLACE "Nonconformist Unite"

hahaha!

14 hours ago, Puffer said:

I agree on all counts.   And it was so full of buzzwords that I can see why it appealed to kneehighs!

I'll take that as a friendly "jab".

[Gudulitooo]

On 5/9/2016 at 6:20 AM, kneehighs said:

"In sum, ... (convoluted, over-torqued sentence) ...participants high in need for uniqueness attributed higher status and competence and heightened sense of autonomy in response to nonconformity signals."

I had a look at the study. Interesting. But it kind of states the obvious.

In this last conclusion, they should consider whether to replace "participants high in need for uniqueness" by "participants high in need for higher perceived status", which would simplify the conclusion to a mere "jealous people lust on others" or "the ones that do not have admire the ones that have".... Etc.

To me, the statement that these participants were "high in need for uniqueness" makes all the difference, but is unfortunately poorly supported, thus the study remains on very shaky ground.

G.

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Gudulitooo

[kneehighs]

8 hours ago, Gudulitooo said:

I had a look at the study. Interesting. But it kind of states the obvious.

In this last conclusion, they should consider whether to replace "participants high in need for uniqueness" by "participants high in need for higher perceived status", which would simplify the conclusion to a mere "jealous people lust on others" or "the ones that do not have admire the ones that have".... Etc.

To me, the statement that these participants were "high in need for uniqueness" makes all the difference, but is unfortunately poorly supported, thus the study remains on very shaky ground.

G.

 

According to the study, "need for uniqueness" is objectively measured by the 31 items of the Need for Uniqueness scale, as conceptualized by Tian et al. (2001). <It> can be further divided into three subsets: (1) Creative counterconformity (12 items); (2) Unpopular counterconformity (11 items); (3) Avoidance of similarity (8 items). We performed the same moderation analysis with each of the three subscales and found a significant interaction with each of them.

[Shyheels]

Sounds like ordering coffee at Starbucks...

[Heelster]

On 9/5/2016 at 0:34 AM, Shyheels said:

Interesting - although as a writer I would add that whoever wrote such a convoluted, over-torqued sentence has an exceptionally high need to inject clarity of expression into his/her report writing!

That's what I thought - - - If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.