Society and Heels

[mskim61]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but hopefully you will humor a new member. Why is society so afraid of men in heels? We are bombarded with gay couples on CNN, people with body tattoes and purple hair,clothes 4times too big and on and on. All these have become everday items. As soon as a man puts a pair of stylish heels on, he is almost ostracized. I tried street heeling on 2 occasions with a very nondescript pair of black 3" block heel boots and both outings ended in negative feedback. I haven't street heeled since then. Actually, there really shouldn't be a moniker "street heeling" Women don't go "street heeling". Frustration is setting in and i would welcome any words of wisdom

[Shafted]

mskim61, You actually can have a suprising amount of control over peoples reactions. The single most important factor is confidence, or even the illusion of it. If you seem nervous to other people while wearing heels people will pick up on that and will probably blurt out negative comments or worse. If you project confidence, most people will probably not react at all, and some may react positively. No matter what, someone will have a negative comment. When it happens it's important not to get rattled. Just smile and shrug it off. In the nearly three months I've been street heeling daily, the only truly negative reaction I ever got here in central Maine was one old lady shaking her head at me in disapproval (I thought the poor old woman was going to swallow her dentures) while going into a local Hannafords supermarket. I love to wear stilettos in public. I walk really well in them. This is also important to subdue peoples negative reactions. People have trouble reacting at all to a guy who walks well in heels and does it with confidence. I hope this helps. Edited to add: Don't be afraid to go back and read some of the old threads here. That's where I found much of my confidence. This is a wonderfully supportive group here. If you really want to wear heels in public again everybody here is behind you.

[jim]

Precarious as is their predicament my friend, It concerns me not... For I have a suit of the finest asbestos !! jim

[Dr. Shoe]

Many years ago I had an altercation with a guy who seemed to take offence to my heels. At the time I was still at college and wearing thigh boots with 4" block heels. This guy was coming towards me and mouthed the word "poof". I said "excuse me, what did you say?" and instead of replying he just kind of sneered. I said "Theirs only two kinds of people that have a problem with the way I dress, the socially inadequate or the sexually repressed. What's your excuse?" (Notice I didn't say "problem") "Well I just think you're a poof!" "You think do you? Is that an opinion or wishful thinking?" After a period of silence he said "It's an opinion." I replied "We all now what the opinion of the ignorant man is worth don't we?" and walked off. I have seen this guy a couple of times since and has kept his opinions to himself.

[JeffB]

It's not fear, mskim61, it's prejudice. For more than a century, society's been conditioned into the narrow mindset that only women can wear certain articles or clothing, such as skirts, dresses and high heeled shoes. That such items aren't genrally associated with men, that such items would look bizarre on men, and that if men openly wore said items, they're either gay, transgendered or perverted. It's that mindset that often leads to ostracizion, derision and humiliation towards us by equally narrow minded people who follow the mantra like lemmings than men in heels looks weird and should be treated accordingly. We've all faced that sort of trouble while publically indulging in our passion and it can be a very painful experience, one that's driven others deep into the closet, but you can't allow that to get to you. If you do, then the narrow minded lemmings win, and you wind up the loser. Sure, it's not easy to get back on that horse after you've been thrown, but there are plenty of examples here of men who've done that very thing, who chose to fight back again that mindset and public enjoy their passion. It can be hard, but it can be done. I hope this was of some help to you.

[kneehighs]

I think Jeff should be our media spokesperson in the U.S...If we could only get some media attention from someone who presents a man in heels in a tasteful fashion, IMHO, that would help advance our cause much further and much more rapidly. Even if it was only a really short clip to begin with...maybe even a radio station interview, that could help too...just something to get the word out to the masses that there are men who wear high heels for fashion (vs. fetish), who don't have to fully crossdress to do it.... I think that once a man in heels loses its surprise factor, then our chances of achieving peace with the public go up. But thats just my view...

[onyourtoes]

...Why is society so afraid of men in heels? We are bombarded with gay couples on CNN, people with body tattoes and purple hair,clothes 4times too big and on and on. All these have become everday items. As soon as a man puts a pair of stylish heels on, he is almost ostracized...

Is it possible that you're singling out heels because that's what you want to wear? As I write this, there's probably a man on some forum saying how society accepts men with purple hair, piercings everywhere, heels, and tattoos, but as soon as a man puts on a stylish skirt...

I was recently reading a book about crossdressing and the author spoke of "your personal comfort level." He meant, some men would be terrified to be seen wearing purple socks in public, and others will wear a skirt, hose, and heels, without bothering to shave their beards or cover their bald spots. Guess who's more likely to be ridiculed?

Today I went shopping and wore my 4 inch wedge heeled sneakers then later changed into a pair of 4 inch platform flip-flops (which I know many here hate). Sure I was aware of them, but I would have been really surprised if anyone said anything.

I can remember in the past wearing boots with 1 1/2 inch block heels and being careful to hide the heels with my pants and carefully planning where I could and couldn't go. I got stared at a lot then.

Last fall I was in a store wearing a pair of 4 inch heel work style boots (like J-Lo, but with round toes, thick soles, and block heels). There was a group of teenagers standing in front of the store. When I left, one of the boys giggled and frantically motioned the others to look. One girl said, "Wow, pretty cool!" and a couple more sounded out in agreement.

I swear, the difference was not the particular people, shoes, or circumstances; it was my attitude. These are not (some) woman's shoes, these are my shoes. (I can show you the receipt!)

Which is you?

- "look at that man trying to pretend he's not wearing high heels. What a doofus! (wolf whistles)"

- "I didn't know they made heels like that for men. I wonder where I can get a pair"

There ARE outside my personal comfort level and haven't been outside the house, yet...

[Shafted]

Last fall I was in a store wearing a pair of 4 inch heel work style boots (like J-Lo, but with round toes, thick soles, and block heels). There was a group of teenagers standing in front of the store. When I left, one of the boys giggled and frantically motioned the others to look. One girl said, "Wow, pretty cool!" and a couple more sounded out in agreement.

After reading some of the negative stories here about teenagers reactions to guys in heels, I was extremely surprised that the most positive reactions I have recieved from starngers have come from teenagers. After the inital shock wears off they think it's pretty cool.

I also think that the less you try to hide what your wearing on you feet, the greater the degree of acceptance. Don't be afraid to let the world see what you got on your feet, this is another outward sign of confidence.

Edited to add: onyourtoes, I want those stiletto boots! Those are gorgeous! Like you I am not yet ready to wear them in public, but I'm not that far away from doing it.

[Dawn HH]

Mskim61:-) Look at all of the support that you are receiving from the guys here and it is all true. If you do this with perfect confidence, things will go along swimmingly, but there might be a bad reaction on occasion, but just shrug it off, for they know not what they do or say. I look at it this way...these are MY boots and I'M going to wear them when I darn well please no matter what people say or don't say, look or don't look. Just do it and enjoy doing it. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[dr1819]

There are many countries where the wear of skirts by men was the norm. Unfortunately, the more global our society becomes, the more other societies conform to the Western "norm." The only way we'll change what's considered normal, or acceptable, is just to get out there and do it in good taste and style.

[JeffB]

I think Jeff should be our media spokesperson in the U.S...If we could only get some media attention from someone who presents a man in heels in a tasteful fashion, IMHO, that would help advance our cause much further and much more rapidly.

Even if it was only a really short clip to begin with...maybe even a radio station interview, that could help too...just something to get the word out to the masses that there are men who wear high heels for fashion (vs. fetish), who don't have to fully crossdress to do it....

I think that once a man in heels loses its surprise factor, then our chances of achieving peace with the public go up. But thats just my view...

Thanks for the kind words, kneehighs. I'm just doing my part for the cause and saying what needs to be said for same because I believe in what I say. To most of society, our unique brand of fashion is sorely misunderstood as most people see what we do as a fetish which, of course, is wrong. We're simply thinking outside the box and choosing to wear what we love to wear, not what society would demand we wear because of our gender. Once society realizes that, our chances of acceptance will improve. How long will it take for that to happen? Who can say, but I certainly it will eventually.

[Bubba136]

JeffB wrote:

To most of society, our unique brand of fashion is sorely misunderstood as most people see what we do as a fetish which, of course, is wrong. We're simply thinking outside the box and choosing to wear what we love to wear, not what society would demand we wear because of our gender. Once society realizes that, our chances of acceptance will improve

Has anyone ever bothered to think that, with the changing of just a few words in that paragraph, anyone with any fetish what so ever, even pedophiles, can use it to justify their own beliefs?

[sexyplatforms]

What ever do you mean Bubba? Are you really suggesting that JeffB's justification for men wearing heels (a legal and harmless, if somewhat socially frowned-upon, activity) is in any way meaningfully comparable with a rationale that could be used to justify harmful activities such as peadophilia? To my mind, what you say in your post represents a fundamental and wilful malappropriation of JeffB's valid point. The very fact that you note the need to fundamentally alter the semantic content of his linguistic/discursive formulation clearly illustrates this logical inconsistency. What you state is same as saying that the campaigning sentence "Men should be free to wear high heels" is in fact a banner for a campaign of the exact opposite values, because we can easily change "should" to "shouldn't" and turn the meaning on its head. Anyway, it seems to me that Jeff's plea is for the development of an understanding attitude to a historically and culturally gendered item of clothing (and with which it is therefore inappropriate to compare activities defined as immoral by law). SP

[JeffB]

JeffB wrote:

Has anyone ever bothered to think that, with the changing of just a few words in that paragraph, anyone with any fetish what so ever, even pedophiles, can use it to justify their own beliefs?

Well, that sure threw me for a loop, bubba. I suppose any hobby/fetish/passion people indulge in can justify their beliefs that way, but that sort of thinking never occured to me. I mean, equating something as simple as shoes with pedophilia is quite a reach, nor would I even think of equating the two. But, hey, we all have our opinions, and I respect yours, just as you respect mine.

[Pam]

I edited this comment since it was not in line with the discussion ...

[Bubba136]

You guys should either learn how to read or keep your fucking mouths shut. My comments were in no way critical of what JeffB wrote. If you would bother to really read them, and think about what I said, you would see that they were oriented toward the statement, phrasing and words used. My purpose was to illustrate the fact that any group seeking approval and justification for behavior that society currently classifies as weird, immoral, deviant, or perverted, can use the same arguments to justify their practice of that behavior, whether it’s classified as being legal or illegal. It’s the same argument for any group that is lamenting the fact that society refuses to see their behavior as “normal.” Take the paragraph that JeffB wrote and just change the references to “high heels” to any other behavior – from robbing banks to cross dressing (and yes, including pedophilia). All of us that wear high heels are all looking for relief, acceptance and approval from society so we can wear what ever we want anytime and anywhere. It doesn’t matter how strongly or how often we express our wish for total acceptance by society, it’s a slow process and will take many more years before we gain acceptance – if ever. And, when you think about it, just because one form of anti-social behavior doesn’t have the same degree of legality as another, doesn’t make it anymore acceptable. They all are still looked upon as being immoral, deviant and perverted and are not accepted by society. If you want to attack the substance of my comments, go for it. Everyone has an opinion and I enjoy a lively discussion of the facts and issues. However, don’t cloud your thinking with comments about one form of anti-social behavior being less harmful than another, so it should be more readily acceptable than others. Now if you block-heads can’t read what I wrote in the proper context……..go soak your heads.

[hoverfly]

Has anyone ever bothered to think that, with the changing of just a few words in that paragraph, anyone with any fetish what so ever, even pedophiles, can use it to justify their own beliefs?

A very powerful statement Bubba for a change somebody stimulated my brain to really think it over.

If you want to compare a pedophiles "fetish" to a high heel "fetish", I say the bottom line is one will lead to violence to another person(s), the other does no harm what so ever to society. There for sexual gratification is inflicted on ones self , NOT inflicting involuntary upon another for one's self gratification.

Lets compare this to an old hot topic the many old timers here on this board remembers talking about before. Women who have reacted with major disapproval from shock, anger, or misunderstanding of their male partner wearing high heels and being assaulted for that emotional reaction. High heels are an inanimate object, there for it has no thoughts, no feeling, no empathy or control in it’s existence. It’s the person in control of the shoe and one self. The shoe may be the trigger but any thing could be used for that trigger like whips, chains, hand cuffs, bungee cords, jello, whip cream, hammers, picks, ax, guns, dildos, butt plugs , gas masks, water bottles, door knobs, dinner plates, and what ever else one can think off. The bottom line is that one who is not in self control of his/her anger and/or predatory instinct is the danger not the object.

However we can go into more depth . Lets compare it to the Western world for the sake of simplicity (if it exists) on somebody collecting child porn Vs adult porn. We can say both of these could lead to violence (sexual assault). But this leads to ethical, moral issues and will very from country to country. Again the bottom line is that one who is not in SELF CONTROL of his/her anger and/or predatory instinct is the danger placed on another person, not the object.

I think I made my point so I will stop here.

[sscotty727]

I am not sure what "acceptance" people are looking for here. I wear heels out both in my personal life and for work. I don't really care for acceptance more than I just don't want an overly negative reaction (being fired at work or beat up in the streets). If people don't like the shoes I wear or think it is strange, that is fine as I don't always like what other people wear. As an example, I wore my wedge clogs with shorts all this week in the hospital when my daughter was born. I might have gotten a few "looks" but no one treated me negative and the doctors and nurses were very friendly. They saw how I treated my other two daughters, new baby and wife vs what I chose to wear on my feet to judge me a good father/husband. I wonder how the first men wearing ear rings felt. Did they try to seek acceptance of others or just wear them cause they liked them and if people chose not to like the look, "to hell with them". I am sure the first few guys wearing this style also got some snide comments. I am sure the first women wearing pants got looked down on as well. Scotty

[Shafted]

I don't think we as a group are necessarily seeking acceptance, just tolorance.

[kneehighs]

I'm seeking acceptance, but not as a prerequisite to feeling good about myself. I'm seeking acceptance as a form of achievement for the greatest good for the greatest number. By violating the norm society has already defined for men, I can't seek validation or affirmation in the status quo. I wear heels to please myself first and foremost. In other words, my private self acceptance precedes a greater scale public acceptance. However, achieving private acceptance and seeking public acceptance are not mutually exclusive activities. They can co-exist. Its when private acceptance depends public acceptance that one needs to inwardly resolve their hesistations about street heeling. But once that private unconditional self acceptance is achieved, why not expand the public consciousness too? Why not represent all street heeling men instead of just yourself? IMO. Perhaps tolerance precedes acceptance though. Perhaps there are stages that we need to work through. I do believe that acceptance is possible. At local grassroots levels, look at the achievments of firefox and jeffb. They have achieved more than tolerance IMHO. I think they have achieved acceptance. If as a group we can expand that center of fashion "freestyling" consciousness to a larger number of people over a greater geographic area, I think we'll be closer and closer to achieving public acceptance that we all would find so relieving.

[Shafted]

I agree completely with you long term vision kneehighs, and while I'm subjected myself to something between tolorance and acceptance. Many out there I'm sure are still struggling to be tolorated. I don't believe we'll see total acceeptance in my lifetime, although we live in a society of tolorance. A society that perhaps even tolorates too much of the wrong things.

[Bubba136]

Hoverfly wrote:

I think I made my point so I will stop here.

To the contrary, HF, you missed the point entirely. It's really very simple. My aim wasn't to equate a high heel fetish to a pedophilic fetish or any other fetish. I was merely pointing out that the lament voiced was the same lament that is/could be used to justify any type of antisocial behavior. In fact, it has been repeated in support of everything from Homosexual behavior to crossdressing, to _________ (fill in the blank). So often that it is begining to sound disingenuous. That is (was) my entire point. Now, do you understand?

[hoverfly]

Hoverfly wrote:

To the contrary, HF, you missed the point entirely. It's really very simple. My aim wasn't to equate a high heel fetish to a pedophilic fetish or any other fetish. I was merely pointing out that the lament voiced was the same lament that is/could be used to justify any type of antisocial behavior. In fact, it has been repeated in support of everything from Homosexual behavior to crossdressing, to _________ (fill in the blank). So often that it is begining to sound disingenuous. That is (was) my entire point. Now, do you understand?

Yes I under stand your point, but my statment was not fully focused at your's,so I failed in that part to make it clear. But thanks for clearing things up here. :argue:

[taliheels]

Bubba136 -its not so much the point you put across(it is admirable that you say what you want to say) but the rather apparently bombastic manner in which you did it, and then you started effing and blinding like some gangster to reponses-and i say this as an observation and not criticiscm of you

[kneehighs]

...Why is society so afraid of men in heels? We are bombarded with gay couples on CNN, people with body tattoes and purple hair,clothes 4times too big and on and on. All these have become everday items. As soon as a man puts a pair of stylish heels on, he is almost ostracized. I tried street heeling on 2 occasions with a very nondescript pair of black 3" block heel boots and both outings ended in negative feedback. I haven't street heeled since then. Actually, there really shouldn't be a moniker "street heeling" Women don't go "street heeling". Frustration is setting in and i would welcome any words of wisdom

I have my own theory on this. Our world for the most part is a patriarchy. It is headed by men. A recent UN study concluded that men control 99% of the worlds economic resources. For the most part, men are the enfranchised group and women are the disenfranchised group. Women as whole have less economic and political power.

It is therefore natural for women to want to have equal power as men. Its natural for the out of power group (no matter what the situation) to aspire to things of the in power group. Upward mobility is socially accepted.

Take for instance the words "sissy" (a boy in womens heels) versus the word "tomboy"(a girl in boys shoes). The word "sissy" is stigmatized to carry an overwhelming sense of shame. The word tomboy doesn't carry shame. It actually has some positive qualities. For it suggests the upward mobility of the girl. And since upward mobility is socially acceptable, it fits into our societies acceptance of women assimilating with men.

But when a man (part of the group in power) seeks to assimilate with a woman (the group not in power) by wearing heels, society views that as scary. Upward assimilation is accepted by society, but downward assimilation is rejected. The patriarchy may think they no longer have a reason to justify their power since a man in heels is a symbol of downward assimilation. Really, society views that as a threat to what they grew up with--which is a patriarchical worldview.

Historically, downward assimilaton is almost always rejected. The Pharisee's rejected Jesus's assimiliation with lepers, prostitutes, and outcasts. Pre 1950's U.S...whites assimilating with blacks? Forget it.

2005...men assimilating with women by wearing pumps? Equally disturbing.

So when society sees a man in heels, they are faced with a decision to make. "Do I accept this symbol of downward assimilation or do I stick with what I already know which is upward assimilation?" This state of mind is called cognitive dissonance by psychologists. Cognitive dissonance also causes one to feel pain. So, is it easier to stick with what society already knows (and immediately provide relief to the pain) or is it easier to challenge their belief that downward assimilation is "bad"(and possibly prolong the pain until resolution is achieved)? Obviously, we all know the answer to this.

This provides at least one explanation as to why society is so intolerant of a man in heels.

[dr1819]

That's quite an astute observation into the human psche, kneehighs!

[JeffB]

A truly fascinating theory, kneehighs. Can't say I disagree with anything you said. And it would certainly explain the narrow mindset most of society has regarding men in heels. Still, it's rather sad that people have such a hangup over something as pedestrian as shoes. Oh, well, what can you do?

[dr1819]

There are things out there that as a society we don't tolerate that we should embrace (non-genderist styles of fashion), just as there are things that as a society we tend to tolerate that we shouldn't (I won't mention what, as there's always someone who'll scream bloody murder!)

[Bubba136]

taliheels wrote:

Bubba136 -its not so much the point you put across(it is admirable that you say what you want to say) but the rather apparently bombastic manner in which you did it, and then you started effing and blinding like some gangster to reponses-and i say this as an observation and not criticiscm of you

Now then, taliheels, some of the members of this board have a great inclination to skim over comments and fire off replies without bothering to really read and fully understand them. Ask any oldtimer what happened to Susan the original...... so, I don't cotton to people that take things out of context and want to fire fully primed broadsides before they even know what they're firing at.

And, if that offends you......so be it!

[kneehighs]

Hoverfly wrote:

To the contrary, HF, you missed the point entirely. It's really very simple. My aim wasn't to equate a high heel fetish to a pedophilic fetish or any other fetish. I was merely pointing out that the lament voiced was the same lament that is/could be used to justify any type of antisocial behavior. In fact, it has been repeated in support of everything from Homosexual behavior to crossdressing, to _________ (fill in the blank). So often that it is begining to sound disingenuous. That is (was) my entire point. Now, do you understand?

You think that theory is trite and archaic, but you haven't said what you'd recommend as an alternative.

What theory, that is more ingenuous, would you recommend instead?