Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[at9]

Some examples I found online.

https://picclick.co.uk/Vintage-1970s-Mens-Platform-Shoes-Brown-Tan-173292622473.html

 

First image here: http://www.hotboots.com/bootinfo/special.html

[kneehighs]

@Tech My opinion is that I create content to encourage men to wear heels as men and have done so freely for years.  Shyheels creates content that discourages me from producing more content and possibly discourages new heelers.  What's the point of encouraging others if everytime I have to deal with Shyheels cynical commentary?  It's ongoing for years.   I'm tired of it.  I'm done.   I already created a solution by putting him on ignore so I don't have to deal with it.  I even stated my solution so others would be aware, including yourself.  Considering I've never been a problem here over the years, taking sides over one comment I made makes me feel  disappointed in you.  

There's an entire economy around influencer marketing [paid social media  (instagram + twitter + facebook posts)].  If all content on social was just an abstract dream (with no ability to influence consumer behavior),  brands wouldn't be spending billions of dollars in influencer marketing year after year on it.  Take Daniel Wellington's business model as a case in point.  Revenue was built entirely from micro-influencer marketing.  https://capitalandgrowth.org/articles/742/the-rise-of-instagram-marketing-pioneer-daniel-wel.html.  I even met the Business Development Director from DW.  Quite an amazing conversation.

• "70% of millennial consumers are influenced by the recommendations of their peers in buying decisions." Collective Bias Study involving 14,000 respondents
• 11X higher ROI from influencer marketing versus traditional  marketing, Nielsen Catalina Solutions
• A study by Dr. Jonah Berger from the Wharton School and the Keller Fay Group found "82 percent of consumers polled said they were highly likely to follow a recommendation made by a micro influencer."  AdWeek
• "49% of consumers rely on product recommendations shared by influencers for their purchases" Twitter study with Annalect (to research influencers on the platform).  

There's more data I'm sure.  To say that social media is absolutely abstract with no reality impact on human behavior is to ignore the growing economy pushing it forward.  So, each time I see a post from an influencer with 1 million + followers, I say to myself  "That's awesome.  That's 15K US in free advertising at least + 100,000's of free exposure that my labor didn't have to create"

Edited August 11, 2018 by kneehighs

[Puffer]

Encouraging men 'to wear heels as men' is fine, and is obviously a cornerstone of this board.   But constantly assailing us with a barrage of pseudo-babble in the form of obtuse marketing-speak and economic or psychological 'facts' does you few favours and is a complete turn-off for those of us who inhabit the real world, however dull and unprogressive it may appear to you to be.

I cannot identify with your lifestyle but am not criticising you for your sincerely-held views or suggesting that nothing you preach has merit.   But, even if you are singing from the right hymn-sheet, the lyrics are in a language foreign to most of your audience here and the music is rarely uplifting. 

[at9]

May I encourage people to read and understand this book. The subject has far wider application than men in heels.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Lie-Statistics-Penguin-Business/dp/0140136290

[Shyheels]

It’s like Mark Twain says. There’s lies, damned lies and statistics.

18 hours ago, at9 said:

@Shyheels, I have seen men, as men,  in high heels. I exclude fancy dress parties, Rocky Horror, drag shows, rock stars, cross-dressers  and suchlike as high heels would be commonly seen on men in these circumstances.

I'm old enough to remember the 1970s when heeled footware for men was commonplace. I wonder if or when it will ever come round again. More recently I've seen men in heeled footware around Camden Town in London. But that's the sort of area where you'll see all sorts of unusual clothing. Aside from that, perhaps the occasional pair of cowboy boots with a 2" heel. I've seen expensive heeled footwear for men on display in high-end stores such as Selfridges. Not seen it being worn.

I have seen men in cowboy boots - men’s boots - with heels sufficient to be useful on horseback. Not often, to be sure, but then I don’t live in Texas. So to that extent I would have seen men in heels, although, again, not for many years - probably not since the last time I was in Texas. I have spent much time on stations in outback Australia and while the blokes out there wear boots, they do not have heels in any real sense. My RM Williams boots - classic outback wear - have just standard street shoe heels.

In terms of “heels” I tend to think of the more overt ones worn by people on this site.

I do remember platforms in the 70s. I don’t recall heels on them although I suppose there must have been something. Platforms were not a style that appealed to me and so I did not give them much thought, and in any even it has been nearly half a century since they were in vogue.

 

[SF]

Cat....  Well raise my rent, I think you are the only one who get's it......     smile....   sf

[CAT]

SF 

oooo a wed wose, how womantic 

I do get it!!

CAT 

[Gudulitooo]

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 4:22 PM, Shyheels said:

I am hardly the only one on this forum who has never encountered a man wearing heels. This is an observation that has been voiced by many on here.  I think your point in selfies is well taken - virtual self expression. I read an interesting article the other day about a Dutch model who has been the face of L’Oreal for the past ten years. She said she was doing her best to teach her children that what they see on the internet does not reflect real life. And she is someone who would be at the pointy end of all this.

Only Kneehighs could properly explain why it only seems that it is virtual self expression.
I am grasping the idea at a very early stage. I could have said  "specifically targeted self expression" (to the followers).
Something that is possible online (though some bystanders may lurk) as well as during private events that you or I are not invited to.

[Steve63130]

I really hate to see this feud continue any more. Both Kneehighs and Shyheels are my friends and while they don't agree on this matter, I think it would be better to drop the subject here and move on. Squabbling doesn't do our cause any good.

In support of Kneehighs, I find his articles interesting, provocative, and cutting edge. If others think it's marketing gobbledygook, that's too bad - their loss. I hope heel (pun intended) continue to post articles and write about the fashion industry. Some of us appreciate it very much.

In support of Shyheels, I agree that seeing men in heels in public at random is a rare event. I've seen them at charity events like Walk a Mile in Her Shoes, and in my personal contacts with several of the gang who post here. 

So you're both right. Stop arguing. It's silly. Ignore each other if you must, but don't think of leaving the forum. You're both insightful people who make very intelligent and interesting posts.

Now let's move on. Thank you.

Steve

[SF]

Right on Steve....   My brain is full......   

The sheriff is near......     ha ha ha....    sf

[CAT]

Look honey I’m standing in Heady Lamar’s shoes. 

 

Thats Headly 

[SF]

raisinettes...

[CAT]

I didn’t get a hurumph out of that guy!

[Tech]

Guys, you each have your own thoughts and opinions, but if you let the opinions of others stop you from being yourself, then you will never, ever achieve anything.

Just agree that you both are not on the same page, and co-exist without trying to fight each other into believing your side.

Lets not bombard the rest of this thread with anymore stats, figures or trying to persuade the whole world that they must accept something.

Shyheels, be happy there is somebody in the world with a passion for what they do, and be happy for them, not discouraging...

Kneehighs, quit bombarding us all with sales and stats, just enjoy being you, and that others here, no matter how "non-encouraging" are not here to put you off or run you down, the get it, they accept it, and lets leave it at that :-)

[SF]

hurumph !!!!

[Gudulitooo]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:10 PM, Tech said:

Guys, you each have your own thoughts and opinions, but if you let the opinions of others stop you from being yourself, then you will never, ever achieve anything.

Just agree that you both are not on the same page, and co-exist without trying to fight each other into believing your side.

Lets not bombard the rest of this thread with anymore stats, figures or trying to persuade the whole world that they must accept something.

Shyheels, be happy there is somebody in the world with a passion for what they do, and be happy for them, not discouraging...

Kneehighs, quit bombarding us all with sales and stats, just enjoy being you, and that others here, no matter how "non-encouraging" are not here to put you off or run you down, the get it, they accept it, and lets leave it at that :-)

Tech,

I don't get it.

As far as he is not breaking the rules, on which ground would you want to control what a member writes in the thread he created ?

And how can the other members be bothered by what is writen there ? Don't they read it willingly ?

G.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Gudulitooo

[CAT]

18 hours ago, SF said:

hurumph !!!!

Mongo only pawn,,,, in game of life 

[Rockpup]

21 hours ago, CAT said:

Mongo only pawn,,,, in game of life 

Hehehehe A great movie.

[pebblesf]

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:06 PM, Steve63130 said:

I really hate to see this feud continue any more. Both Kneehighs and Shyheels are my friends and while they don't agree on this matter, I think it would be better to drop the subject here and move on. Squabbling doesn't do our cause any good.

In support of Kneehighs, I find his articles interesting, provocative, and cutting edge. If others think it's marketing gobbledygook, that's too bad - their loss. I hope heel (pun intended) continue to post articles and write about the fashion industry. Some of us appreciate it very much.

In support of Shyheels, I agree that seeing men in heels in public at random is a rare event. I've seen them at charity events like Walk a Mile in Her Shoes, and in my personal contacts with several of the gang who post here. 

So you're both right. Stop arguing. It's silly. Ignore each other if you must, but don't think of leaving the forum. You're both insightful people who make very intelligent and interesting posts.

Now let's move on. Thank you.

Steve

Well said Steve...

[Shyheels]

To be clear - and this will be my very last post on this thread - at no time have I been conducting a 'feud' with anyone.  I was engaging in what I believed to be a vigorous discussion about the value of social media as a bellwether for change in society. I scrupulously kept to the issues rather than delving into the personal remarks or characterisations and I was not rude. Indeed, when things started to become overheated I suggested we get the thread back on track and then endeavoured to do so. I was astonished by the outburst I received and disappointed to find myself being trolled by another member. 

I find that my contributions characterised as negative and discouraging and myself cast in the role of the Grinch spoiling Christmas by raining on the passions of others. The fact that I have acquired 555 likes over the years suggests I can't be quite as bad as all that. Indeed I have gone out of my way to be supportive of individuals in their posts about themselves and their outings. And the so called "discouraging"  things I have had to say - the scarcity of men in heels, the likelihood of Instagram being an accurate reflection of the real world - are observations that have been made by plenty of others on this forum and are, in some cases, the subjects of active threads. I was merely the one holding the ticking bomb when it went off. 

I had thought - and still believe - that HHP could be quite an interesting platform for engaging in thoughtful debate with interesting, impassioned people, discussing social and philosophical issues that really don't get aired anywhere else - the sociology behind fashion, or the nature of masculinity. If it is to be merely a cheering section, choruses of approval for whatever is posted, and free of dissent lest anyone be discouraged - and apparently that's the idea - then I think I shall confine my contributions to the Word Game.    

I made this post not in furtherance of this mess but because I did not want to let stand unchallenged the notion of my conducting a "feud" or my being a voice of negativity and discouragement. Now, I am stepping away and you guys go on with the thread as it is meant to be. 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Shyheels

[SF]

Now we can all loosen our bullets....  sf 

[CAT]

_{What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?}

[Tech]

On 8/13/2018 at 10:44 PM, Gudulitooo said:

Tech,

I don't get it.

As far as he is not breaking the rules, on which ground would you want to control what a member writes in the thread he created ?

And how can the other members be bothered by what is writen there ? Don't they read it willingly ?

G.

I'm not trying to control what anybody writes and nobody said anything about rules except you.

Shyheels has his opinions as does Kneehigh's, however, it seems that Kneehigh's side of things is coming across as rather annoyed maybe that somebody doesn't see things his way?

Have all the heated discussion you like folks, I'm all for it, delve into whatever you want, but have your pros and cons, but lets not turn into snowflakes and start reporting posts/threads just because 2 guys are having some banter over a matter, and lets not start bashing somebody because they don't share your views of social media.

If your going to bash somebody, at least do it over something that is worthwhile, like highly inappropriate images being posted or something....

[Sydheel]

.............. now we can all get some sleep

[SF]

I'm tired, tired of playing the game. Ain't it a crying shame? I'm so tired. Goddammit, I'm exhausted.

[Pierre1961]

 Couldn't we now focus on what we are only supposed to be focused on? 

I mean high heels fashion and style ? 

- sharing our styles 

- tips about hh 

- fashion

-hh meetings. 

-encouraging ourself heeling publicly ,without expecting many people would do the same or even accept it. 

- what else ? 

- yes : enjoy our heeling moments. 

Pierre

[bambam]

Frankly, the feeling I get watching these arguments is that we are still fed up with heels on men not being accepted, much less encouraged in the same way that 'gender-bending' is for women. I feel like this almost every day I'm out and about, or read the news. Not offering a solution here, just an observation. 

[kneehighs]

For what it's worth, being me is "sales and stats", lol.   I've now been encouraged to not be myself, lol.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by kneehighs

[Bubba136]

Awwwww, common!  You are too valuable of an asset to do this to us.  

[hoborob]

The long and short of all of this is quite simple. You can quote sales figures and stats, and anything and everything that social media may or may not be saying. In the end other than some displays that you may see in or on the various media outlets showing men in heels (and be thankful there are some, and some pull it off very well) the simple and plain fact is that it is not something that you see on the streets everyday. Now it is also true that you don't see a lot of women on the streets in heels either, most of the that do wear heels change into them when they get to where they are going, you do see women in heels regularly. The only way that men in heels will become an accepted idea in society is that those that do wear heels to get out there and be seen. Being seen and being reasonable about it will over the long haul encourage other men to do so and it will grow, but you have to plant the seeds by first being seen by your local community even if it creates a stir. After a while you will either be a leader or "the crazy guy that wears heels". In the end it's up to you and getting over your own fears which will give you the freedom to wear what you want when you want.