Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[Rick24]

The fashion industry does not take men wearing heels seriously, they think that men who wear heels, must fit into the stereotype, too them men who are married or play sports, can not wear heels, sadly they aren't the only ones to think like that, you have celebrities who do nothing but throw materialistic things into the pot, why do celeb women need to wear heels that cost thousands, when they could buy more at a cost of 100-250, their is huge double standards with the current generation of girls and women, because they want to get rid of masculine men and boys, many women want them to wear tight clothing, and many want them to get rid of body hair, and there are many who want their men to wear make up, but where is the mans choice in any of these things, if he wants to do any of them, if most men make a choice to wear heels, but to women its no no, because they make those choices, its like men are nothing but a ken doll to be put into a box and the little girl makes the decisions on what the ken doll wears, you can see sexism in the fashion industry and yes women also throw misogyny at males who wears heels in public, I as a male make that decision to wear heels, and I will not wear flats to appease materialistic people who think I have no right to wear what I want.

[Puffer]

8 hours ago, Rick24 said:

The fashion industry does not take men wearing heels seriously, they think that men who wear heels, must fit into the stereotype, too them men who are married or play sports, can not wear heels, sadly they aren't the only ones to think like that, you have celebrities who do nothing but throw materialistic things into the pot, why do celeb women need to wear heels that cost thousands, when they could buy more at a cost of 100-250, their is huge double standards with the current generation of girls and women, because they want to get rid of masculine men and boys, many women want them to wear tight clothing, and many want them to get rid of body hair, and there are many who want their men to wear make up, but where is the mans choice in any of these things, if he wants to do any of them, if most men make a choice to wear heels, but to women its no no, because they make those choices, its like men are nothing but a ken doll to be put into a box and the little girl makes the decisions on what the ken doll wears, you can see sexism in the fashion industry and yes women also throw misogyny at males who wears heels in public, I as a male make that decision to wear heels, and I will not wear flats to appease materialistic people who think I have no right to wear what I want.

If I was so empowered, I would impose a very long sentence on you for crimes against the English language.   Your message may be a good one; its presentation successfully conceals most of it. 

[robbiehhw]

You have to be the change you want to see. Men's fashion feminization is not a quick fad. It has been going on in some ways for decades and more recently for 12+ yrs. (if you go by fashion shows and designer portfolios). To simply throw up one's hands and say, well that is the way the world is, women will never like this and men will never tolerate it, is being shortsighted. Feminism in part, brought women the right and practice of wearing male clothes. That was not an easy journey for women.

Are there groups and individuals that try and counteract this? Absolutely. I call them traditional society's antibodies. But like most change-resistance it is pretty much destined to fall by the wayside. 

There are no doubt even on this forum, people that think to themselves. "Wait a darned second, i like manly men and feminine women, i like most of tradition, i don't want things to change that much " Well you can like it all you want to. They key is individual choice. Whenever we worry to much about what the other person is doing, we do our own lives a disservice. 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by robbiehhw

[Shyheels]

Actually it was the bicycle that opened the doors to women's leaving the traditional long skirts and Victorian fashions, and bringing bloomers into fashion - the thin end of the wedge for the shift to trousers. World War II and the need for women to take up crucial factory jobs hitherto reserved for men completed the change, ushering in the wearing of trousers by women in a major, and lasting way. Feminism didn't have much to do with it. 

[robbiehhw]

I disagree and we may be somewhat dealing with semantics, but the feminist drive for equality in doing the exact same things that men do, brought us a lot of fashion changes.

Would women still be in domestic kitchen garb if not for WW2? Nope- because with suffrage and the modern fashion movement that started decades before (Coco Channel as an example), you had a masculinization of female fashion. Bicycles certainly had something to do with hem length, because women wanted equal access to that.  The flappers of the 20s event went so far as to go for a "boy" look, with flattened bust. The 30s brought Oxfords to women, a very male shoe before. Swimsuits did away with the skirt. The list is long and always running in parallel to whatever feminine shoe and clothing choices were available to women.

The woman's business suit started around then as well and gathered steam over the following decades.  This continues to this day in the androgynous styles that some women adopt and the top freedom movement. (Guys can take their tops off at the park, women should be able to as well). I see a lot of online research that tends to back this up, but i do think that it has only be been part of the influence. Others include necessities like serving in the military and just the general casual movement in fashion.

Edited September 7, 2016 by robbiehhw

[Gudulitooo]

I found this article which is exactly what I feel when wearing heels.

G.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/36437-the-9-stages-of-wearing-heels-as-a-tall-girl-because-youre-just-leggy-not-a

[kneehighs]

Man in red heels voting in NYC at the 11/8 elections.  

Photo: @youvegotnomale

[robbiehhw]

Bigotry will always exist - the good thing is to continue to push for equality and it will become less and less.

[JeffB]

Love the picture, moreso than the comments. Killer heels!

[Thighbootguy]

40 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Love the picture, moreso than the comments. Killer heels!

Ditto

[RonC]

Give this guy a lot of credit.  Doing what he likes, not bothering anyone nor worried about anyone else.  Good for him!  Wonder if he is a member here?  Would love to hear his story!  I love the red patent!

[Shyheels]

A far better advertisement for guys wearing heels as guys than any of those queasy making images put out by fashion designers with their weird militaristic androgynous looks.

[Gudulitooo]

Here is a link to a blog gathering pictures of fashionable men wearing boots (with heels !) with nice outfits. http://bootedmalemodels.tumblr.com/

I also found this french guy who is into fashion runways. https://lutinenfolie.com/ or https://www.facebook.com/lutinenfoliefashion

[RonC]

Interesting....apparently, the trend toward heels for men is over in the fashion industry.  I scrolled through page after page of the photos in the "french guy" first link, and other than the guy himself, I did not spot a single guy in heels, either runway models or attendees.  Too bad - there was some hope a year or two ago, but it looks like it did not have a lasting impact.  

[kneehighs]

On 12/1/2016 at 4:53 AM, Gudulitooo said:

Here is a link to a blog gathering pictures of fashionable men wearing boots (with heels !) with nice outfits. http://bootedmalemodels.tumblr.com/

I also found this french guy who is into fashion runways. https://lutinenfolie.com/ or https://www.facebook.com/lutinenfoliefashion

I think LutinFolie.com just talks about his fashion interests.  They aren't necessarily men in heels.  They are women's fashion.

Here's a fun video from Racked.  

 

 

[Jkrenzer]

Good buts should be for everyone,  great quote.

[pebblesf]

Boy, those booted guys look GREAT!  Would be thrilled to achieve most any of those styling successes

[Gudulitooo]

A new story

http://www.elle.com/fashion/a40327/fashionista-who-fell-to-earth/

Could be in another forum though, I don't know.

[Rockbass19]

On 12/2/2016 at 6:30 PM, pebblesf said:

Boy, those booted guys look GREAT!  Would be thrilled to achieve most any of those styling successes

Agreed.  I think I could pull off many of those looks.

[Rockpup]

On 11/11/2016 at 4:59 PM, Thighbootguy said:

Ditto

I thought of you when reading this post.

http://forum.purseblog.com/threads/men-in-knee-high-boots.388917/page-32#post-30898831

 

[Gudulitooo]

Though this is not a discussion, I like this guy's look(s)

http://yooying.com/p/1407997777996253845

http://yooying.com/p/1408088724012611502

[Thighbootguy]

1 hour ago, Rockpup said:

I thought of you when reading this post.

http://forum.purseblog.com/threads/men-in-knee-high-boots.388917/page-32#post-30898831

 

Thanks...It's nice to be thought of.  Add 10 years and change the Harley to a guitar, and I could have a clone.

[pebblesf]

5 hours ago, Gudulitooo said:

Though this is not a discussion, I like this guy's look(s)

http://yooying.com/p/1407997777996253845

http://yooying.com/p/1408088724012611502

I agree, he is confident and looks great, a fellow smoker as well...

[kneehighs]

On 12/20/2016 at 7:31 AM, Gudulitooo said:

Though this is not a discussion, I like this guy's look(s)

http://yooying.com/p/1407997777996253845

http://yooying.com/p/1408088724012611502

Very good look.  

They look like the Saint Laurent FRENCH 85 Cut Out Boot in black leather.  Incidentally, the same FRENCH 85 is also sold to women.   Seems like Saint Laurent managed manufacturing cost risks here.

Edited December 23, 2016 by kneehighs

[kneehighs]

Quick marketing argument for why the men in heels market has always stalled--and will probably always stall. 

The key to success for any new trend is to focus in on the dominant adoption type in the current phase of the market, learn to appreciate that type of person's archetype, and then adjust the marketing strategy accordingly. This is known as the Rogers Diffusion of Innovations Graph.  This is the model widely adopted by the tech sector (and others) and repeatedly referenced by Goldman Sachs, Citi reports and other leading Blue Chip financial institutions.  It's also referenced in the fashion industry.  Once the Early Majority takes up a new trend, it crosses what Malcolm Gladwell calls the "Tipping Point".  That's the point everyone here is hoping for. 

Innovators want to be the first among their peers with a new trend.  They seek out new styles just to see if the new style will work. In fashion, this falls into the hands of professional insiders like Rick Owens (heels for men), Heidi Slimane (Saint Laurent/Dior Homme heels for men), and John Paul Gaultier (heels for men).  

Early Adopters by contrast don't invent, yet they are willing to buy into new styles early in their life cycle.  In the fashion economy, this often falls into the hands of celebrities and digital influencers.  Kanye West (wearing a women's Celine blouse), Prince (heels), David Bowie (heels/androgyny).  Some may argue that likes, shares, and comments don't increase the velocity of cash flow in the economy.  That argument is based on uneducated ignorance.  Go to the CMO of any large fashion corporation and ask them which spend converts more. Blue Chip advertising/marketing (Vogue, Harpers, or NY Times) or Digital Influencers (Blonde Salad, Kristina Bazan, Aimee Song). Unanimously, digital influencer spend ROI outperforms Blue Chip ROI.  It's a seismic shift observable in numbers at the C-Suite level. 

The catch is uptake by men in heels keeps stalling at the Innovator stage.  There aren't celebrities or male digital influencers regularly wearing heels.  While innovators see heels for men as a status symbol of innovation, Early Adopters still see it as a symbol of downward assimilation.  Why?  In most countries, males are the In Power Group.  The Out Power group are females.  Socially identifying with the Out Power Group decreases status (unless for charity).  

The value proposition then?  Get proof of concept for men in heels in countries--not innovator tribes in the fashion industry-- where women are the In Power Group. Experiment on a limited trial basis.   Sweden, Finland, Denmark, and Norway consistently come out on top of gender global rankings.  If market cap is even promising in these countries, then new ways of marketing to Early Adopters should be applied.  "Be unlike everyone else, be unique.  Wear heels."  "Women unanimously think taller men are more attractive.  Wear heels. Be taller."  "Women unanimously think men with good posture are more attractive.  Heels give you good posture.  Wear heels".  "Women unanimously think men with long legs are more attractive than men with short legs.  Get longer legs by wearing heels" "people associate height with power.  Wear heels to appear more powerful" etc. 

While totally not something I would ever invest time or money into, it's an interesting idea to explore. 

 

[Thighbootguy]

@kneehighs Thanks for the marketing lesson.  You never know what you will find here at hhplace. 

1 hour ago, kneehighs said:

Seems like Saint Laurent managed manufacturing cost risks here.

I appreciate that a good quality item cost more to produce than an inferior quality item, where "produce" includes manufacturing, quality control, and marketing) but at $1000 a pair was Saint Laurent really worried about the cost of manufacturing in larger sizes?

[Steve63130]

Excellent analysis, Kneehighs. Very well explained. It really takes a designer who is willing to push the concept (of heels for guys) with sufficient exposure, both in time and geography, so that the early adopters are widely seen and copied by the early majority, where the tipping point is. There need to be more suppliers waiting in the wings with competitive pricing to encourage more early adopters to adopt. Not every consumer who is so inclined is willing to fork over $1K for a pair of shoes. The price has to come down, the Chinese have to get interested and join the supply chain, and heels have to become more readily available cheaply to attract more early adopters. A limited few innovators just won't cut it. For the late majority and laggards who wait until it's safe out there for them to wear heels, they will wait a long time. Life is short. Why wait?

I think a lot of heelers on this forum are more attracted by stiletto pumps than, say, thicker heeled boots. I contend that if the fashion for men in heels ever takes off again (like it started to in the 1970s), it won't be with stilettos. Those will probably always be identified with women and "artistic" men. That doesn't mean that guys can't wear stilettos in public (like you do so well), but it's not as likely to succeed as a fashion trend as thicker heeled boots could, in my opinion, because it's harder to get more early adopters to wear stiletto heels in public.

Steve

Edited December 23, 2016 by Steve63130

[Thighbootguy]

3 hours ago, Steve63130 said:

Those (stilettos) will probably always be identified with women and "artistic" men. That doesn't mean that guys can't wear stilettos in public (like you do so well), but it's not as likely to succeed as a fashion trend as thicker heeled boots could, in my opinion, because it's harder to get more early adopters to wear stiletto heels in public.

So if I have my guitar in hand I can wear stilettos?  Just kidding, I used to wear them all the time but another concern for guys wearing stilettos is that they are initially hard to wear whereas block heels are quite easy.  I have learned this lesson since I've had a nerve problem that has weakened my ankle.  I now wear block heels all the time and only rarely attempt stilettos any more.

[Puffer]

10 hours ago, kneehighs said:

Very good look.  

They look like the Saint Laurent FRENCH 85 Cut Out Boot in black leather.  Incidentally, the same FRENCH 85 is also sold to women.   Seems like Saint Laurent managed manufacturing cost risks here.

As has been pointed out elsewhere in HHP by Rob, the SL boots for men are very similar to those for women but not identical.   In his size UK8, the women's boot had a heel that was about 1cm higher and a little thinner.   They appear to have been sold out for some time, but whether that means that demand outstripped supply or merely that production was limited I do not know.   The high cost was clearly a deterrent.   But the lack of further production, or more affordable copies from other makers, suggests that the male market as a whole has not responded with much enthusiasm. 

[kneehighs]

14 hours ago, Puffer said:

As has been pointed out elsewhere in HHP by Rob, the SL boots for men are very similar to those for women but not identical.   In his size UK8, the women's boot had a heel that was about 1cm higher and a little thinner.   They appear to have been sold out for some time, but whether that means that demand outstripped supply or merely that production was limited I do not know.   The high cost was clearly a deterrent.   But the lack of further production, or more affordable copies from other makers, suggests that the male market as a whole has not responded with much enthusiasm. 

Link please.  This comment mistakes the tree for the forest.   A heel difference doesn't mean other parts in the product development cycle weren't shared.  The design teams choice of materials, leather, soles...how buyers sourced these materials...production teams choice of manufacturing methods...manufacturing locations etc.