Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[Shyheels]

It seems that increasingly people are using the law as a sword, and all too often are able to get away with it. 

[pebblesf]

OK, finally listened to the link with his interview.  Don't really know what to think, and don't want to draw too many conclusions based on a short interview.   I would agree with the responder who said "he has some issues to work out".  I wonder if after he looks back on that interview, he would wish to have used some different words.  Oh well, still hope his publicity helps bring heels into the mainstream for regular guys.  

[bambam]

8 hours ago, Cali said:

I have to go to one of those trainings every few years.  But since they pay lots of money to go, I don't mind.

Several years back a woman (falsely) accused me of sexual harassment.  It turned out to be her M.O.  Every time a person would challenge her statements she would threaten them with sexual harassment and they all had back down. But I was disappointed in the job she was doing and had put together a list of reasons she should be strip of her job, how her actions was hurting the institution in general.  And I submitted those to the administration.

Then one day she came into my area (where I was in-charge) and started to behave erratically, I asked her nicely and calmly several times if I could help (I knew exactly what she was looking for), but she refused my help.  She continued to behave erratically then yelled at me and the next day filled those sexual harassment charges against me. When in fact she was the aggressor. After several stressful months of meetings with HR, it was proved that her claims were invalid and she later resigned.  It was amazing how many people, both men and women, that thanked me for standing up against her.  

I love hearing when people get caught in these situations, makes me feel that morality has a chance...

[Puffer]

23 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Indeed. And these days, in terms of public statements, the best option is to say nothing or else something so anodyne that nobody could possibly take issue with it.

I have not yet read the article.   In general terms, it is sad that so many people seem to take offence (often totally vicariously) at an article or other pronouncement with which they simply disagree, regardless of how moderately and logically it is expressed.   We seem to be degenerating into a world of extremists who are incapable of even listening to anything but their own gospel.   (And my view of extremists is that they should all be put against a wall and shot!) 

[Shyheels]

In the world of Twitter mobs, outrage is the noblest of human emotions, followed closely by vindictiveness 

[spikesmike]

Heelers : I couldn't see anything wrong with Mr. Bryans comments. I have no dough that we all have had unflattering comments shouted at us all. People of the gay community may have suffered worse afflictions hurled at them. Gay bashing. Family's may have rejected a family member because of their interests. So- Fu*k it, we should live the life that pleases us all. Mark is doing his thing; you can bet you're a*s I am going to do mine.   Mike

[kneehighs]

Bryan just issued a response in his Instagram highlights

https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17935312523346197/

[CAT]

1 hour ago, kneehighs said:

Bryan just issued a response in his Instagram highlights

https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17935312523346197/

I don’t have insta can you paste the response 

[kneehighs]

6 hours ago, CAT said:

I don’t have insta can you paste the response 

it's 3 videos. I don't want to download and re-upload. View without Insta account:

1. storysaver.net
2. Type markbryan911 in window and click download
3. Click #highlight stories (Archive)
4. Click LGBTQ+

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by kneehighs

[bambam]

Seems hurt, and basically genuine. There is lots to say about how ones appearance is a tool to 'express' your orientation, among other things, but I understand that as just another attempt at branding yourself for a tribe, which I find counter productive for a soul searching toward self actualization. I have a couple more 'drag' oriented friends, and we often argue and debate about ball culture, and the over-the-top sorts of clothing they find engaging. I'm often told that I would be a very boring secondary school teacher, or junior college professor, in my clothes, which I actually sort of find to be a bit true, but never get an answer as to why looking as exaggerated as they often do is any different from punk culture, or metal culture in the 80's, meaning, somewhat immature, and adolescent. Further, the very thing I find most disturbing about the adherence to the tribal inclinations of the limbic system is expressed by their immediate cutting and attacking of any soul taking issue, even so small and arguably well-meant as Mr. Bryans, as though the city walls were breached, and if you aren't exactly with us, you are our enemy. 

 

Therein lies, in my opinion, a problem many of us here have dealt with as we try new things, which is, I am not EXACTLY what I am wearing, it does not betray who I sleep with, my interests, my past, present, or future, and some of the current generation of rockers seem to find that statement empowering in speech, but abhorrent in practice. Or, perhaps, they simply can't think hard enough to figure that possibility. 

[Pumped]

I don't feel he said anything wrong. Some people feel if you are not for them you are against them, there is no neutral ground. I think the interviewer was assuming he was all in and supported the LGBT community, where it seems he is fairly neutral about it.

I understood his point of gays making his situation tougher, I fail to see how that was taken as negative, he was simply stating his situation. How many of us get the same response? Wearing heels? Certainly you are gay! Hetro men do not wear heels!

[Shyheels]

Yes, this assumption that if you wear heels you must be gay is really rather odd. I have quite a few gay and lesbian friends and not a single one of them wears heels.  

[mlroseplant]

The question that I struggle with is, "Why do I take secret inner offense, if only for a few seconds, when somebody thinks I am gay?" If that problem could be solved, and I don't know how to solve it, none of this so-called controversy would exist.

[Jkrenzer]

I admit that many times the 1st impressions people have had of me is "gay". It's not insult, just not the case. Once a conversation is struck that impression goes away. Been actually told this. Then the question is "why". I simply answer because I like to.

[Shyheels]

I couldn’t care less if someone thinks I’m gay. They might also think I speak Spanish, or play the accordion or understand the offside rule in football - they’d be wrong in every case but it doesn’t make any difference to me. So what?

[Puffer]

13 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Yes, this assumption that if you wear heels you must be gay is really rather odd. I have quite a few gay and lesbian friends and not a single one of them wears heels.  

You make a good point, but your logic is inverted.  (I am reminded of 'All policemen smoke pipes.   My neighbour smokes a pipe, so he must be a policeman'.)  👨‍🎓 

 If 'I'm gay and I never wear heels' is a true statement (as your 'researches' suggest, although it cannot be a universal situation), it does not follow that 'I wear heels so I cannot be gay' is false.   😖

Moreover, a lesbian, if trying her best to emulate a man, is very unlikely to wear heels, so a denial would be normal to hear.

[Shyheels]

I never said or even implied that no gays wear heels. I said that none of the gay people I knew wore heels. Taking that as a representative sample I would say that the prevelance of heel-wearing among gays is about the same as that among straight men  - which is to say, very little. And given that, the assumption by the rank-and-file that a man in heels must be gay is an ignorant one. You could, with just as much logic, make an assumption that a man in heels must be a diabetic.   

And by the way, lesbians are not trying to emulate men, although some may appear "mannish". There are plenty of femiine lesbians and of the ones I know, not a single one wears heels. THat is not to say there are not those who do, just that once again the prevalence of heel wearing appears to be the same in the population overall, regardless of orientation.  

[Puffer]

5 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I never said or even implied that no gays wear heels. I said that none of the gay people I knew wore heels. Taking that as a representative sample I would say that the prevelance of heel-wearing among gays is about the same as that among straight men  - which is to say, very little. And given that, the assumption by the rank-and-file that a man in heels must be gay is an ignorant one. You could, with just as much logic, make an assumption that a man in heels must be a diabetic.   

And by the way, lesbians are not trying to emulate men, although some may appear "mannish". There are plenty of femiine lesbians and of the ones I know, not a single one wears heels. THat is not to say there are not those who do, just that once again the prevalence of heel wearing appears to be the same in the population overall, regardless of orientation.  

I don't doubt your particular observations but, with respect, you put forward your samples as being representative - demonstrating that neither gays nor lesbians wear heels - whilst also admitting that they were NOT, on the basis that heel-wearing amongst such people was in truth likely to be much the same as the population as a whole.   You cannot have it both ways!   I certainly accept that heel-wearing is not clearly linked to sexual orientation.   

My previous reference to lesbians was clearly to those who appear 'mannish' if and when they try to emulate a man, which of course not all lesbians do.   But I do find it most surprising that no 'feminine' lesbian you know wears heels, suggesting that they are intentionally LESS feminine in appearance than typical heterosexual women, many of who do wear heels.  

[Shyheels]

Again, you misinterpret what I say. I am making no absolutist claims, nor am I claiming to have conducted a survey. I am merely pointing out that in my personal experience the prevalence of heel hearing among gay men is the same as that among straight men - zero, or virtually zero. None of my friends or acquaintances wear heels, or if they do they keep it very much to themselves.

it’s an observation the vast majority of people could make.

The point is there is no logic in associating heel wearing with gayness, as gays do not seem to wear heels any more than anyone else.

Why are you surprised that the feminine lesbians I know do not wear heels? Are you seriously suggesting that a woman who doesn’t wear heels is deliberately trying to look less feminine? Seriously? I know very few women at all who wear heels - most women don’t these days, for a wide variety of reasons, but I very much doubt that an attempt to appear less feminine is one of them.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Shyheels

[mlroseplant]

Evidently, I know how to get youse guys riled up, and I'm not saying that was my intention, but it was a thought when I hit the "Submit Reply" button. Unfortunately, the discussion that developed is not really very productive, even if it is entertaining.

When I made that comment, several replies above, I assumed that there are quite a number of straight people who are irritated when the general public assumes they are gay. I arrived at this (possibly false) assumption from reading comments people have made over the years, and particularly on this thread.

What I have gotten out of this whole incident is that Mark Bryan made some comment to some interviewer that the gay community has made it somehow harder for him. And the response is that, "Well.  .  . WE paved the way for you to be able to do your thing, and now you have shat upon us." I'm calling hogwash on both of these assertions.

WE, meaning those of us here on this forum, know from vast and shared experience that the number of male heel wearers is very low in any demographic. We need to keep that in mind before we go about dividing ourselves up into little tribes. I think and hope that I'm preaching to the choir on this one, because let's face it, none of US have high heel based Instragram accounts with a significant number of followers, none of US have been invited to fashion shows. Mr. Bryan may have a following on social media, but I'll bet you serious money that if I went out and asked 1,000 people in my town who he is, maybe 3 will have even heard of him. The people who will influence society are you and me, one by one. So be nice to folks! We want to make a good impression.

[Shyheels]

I totally agree with you on both of those assertions being hogwash.

I have a modest following on Instagram - 13k - but it’s about fine art photography, not heels, and in fact, heels or fashion in general would not fit in with the general theme. I thought of doing another account but the way IG operates these days the idea of starting an account from scratch is deeply unappealing.

You’re quite right, the way to influence society is simply to be the change you’d like to see. Do it in a classy way, enjoy your own liberation but at the same time don’t expect much

[Rockpup]

Yea, sadly I don’t know anyone else in my sphere of gay friends who also wears heels in public as normal shoes. I know people who do drag stuff or in kink scenes, but not casually.

i am not counting anyone transitioning, just those who identify as guys.

[Puffer]

12 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Again, you misinterpret what I say. I am making no absolutist claims, nor am I claiming to have conducted a survey. I am merely pointing out that in my personal experience the prevalence of heel hearing among gay men is the same as that among straight men - zero, or virtually zero. None of my friends or acquaintances wear heels, or if they do they keep it very much to themselves.

it’s an observation the vast majority of people could make.

The point is there is no logic in associating heel wearing with gayness, as gays do not seem to wear heels any more than anyone else.

Why are you surprised that the feminine lesbians I know do not wear heels? Are you seriously suggesting that a woman who doesn’t wear heels is deliberately trying to look less feminine? Seriously? I know very few women at all who wear heels - most women don’t these days, for a wide variety of reasons, but I very much doubt that an attempt to appear less feminine is one of them.

We both appear to accept that there is no direct link between sexual preference/identity and heel-wearing.    Fine: that is a non-contentious and reasonable conclusion.

I have not suggested that the position is otherwise, but your original reference to your understanding of the 'zero' heeling activity amongst your gay and lesbian acquaintances did suggest otherwise - by effectively eliminating any heel-wearing where, statistically, some at least would be expected.   There is a difference between 'zero' and 'virtually zero' and I am at a loss therefore as to why you made the point as it does not support the accepted situation as we both believe it to be.

As to women in general wearing heels or otherwise, I certainly do suggest that heels remain an important aspect of 'femininity' - although not of course the only or main one.   I did not (and do not) say that a non-heel-wearing woman is trying to look less feminine on that account, although if that is her aim, avoiding heels will be a help.   The popularity of high heels (or their universality in everyday situations) has certainly declined but they remain one of the hallmarks of femininity which most women recognise, even if they do not necessarily subscribe - and sometimes roundly criticise or even despise.   

Edited November 12, 2022 by Puffer
typo

[kneehighs]

I have an Insta account, but not about high heel wearing.

56k followers. Blue check. Been invited to Dior, Ferragamo, Victoria’s Secret. 

Burned TF out as I started it in 2011.

Besides being a Tinder replacement and providing proof to the IRS of a side biz, it’s meaningless to me. 
 

On to the next new thing while it’s still fun and early.

[Rockpup]

Not really a discussion, but YSL is breaking away from block heels for guys.

[Shyheels]

Wow! That’s interesting. And judging by the appearance in the photo, they’re being presented in a way that looks presentable, tasteful and potentially appealing to regular guys - instead of the usual outlandishness.  Good to see.

[pebblesf]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:45 AM, Rockpup said:

Yea, sadly I don’t know anyone else in my sphere of gay friends who also wears heels in public as normal shoes. I know people who do drag stuff or in kink scenes, but not casually.

i am not counting anyone transitioning, just those who identify as guys.

Same here buddy.  

[Cali]

5 hours ago, Rockpup said:

Not really a discussion, but YSL is breaking away from block heels for guys.

I was just looking at their website to see how many heels they have, That's the only one, the Ziggy. But at  $1450 I'll pass and buy 10 to 20 heels for that price. 

https://www.ysl.com/en-us/boots/ziggy-zipped-boots-in-patent-leather-709047AAAPQ6012.html

[pebblesf]

59 minutes ago, Cali said:

I was just looking at their website to see how many heels they have, That's the only one, the Ziggy. But at  $1450 I'll pass and buy 10 to 20 heels for that price. 

https://www.ysl.com/en-us/boots/ziggy-zipped-boots-in-patent-leather-709047AAAPQ6012.html

Yeah, I love patent leather ankle boots, but the heels on these expensive ones don't appeal to me.  

[Puffer]

2 hours ago, Cali said:

I was just looking at their website to see how many heels they have, That's the only one, the Ziggy. But at  $1450 I'll pass and buy 10 to 20 heels for that price. 

https://www.ysl.com/en-us/boots/ziggy-zipped-boots-in-patent-leather-709047AAAPQ6012.html

I can't see the Ziggy being too popular with men, even assuming they can afford $1,450!   Saint Laurent is also listing several ankle boots with 3" slim block heels that are somewhat more restrained in appearance, albeit still $1,250+.   I expect ASOS will produce something similar and much more affordable ...