Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[Shyheels]

Yes, the 70s platforms was a brief shining exception. It would be an interesting study to examine the probably rather complex psychological factors and social changes that allowed that brief exception to flourish, and why and how it passed so swiftly and left almost no legacy other than vague quirky faintly embarrassed memories  

[p1ng74]

25 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

Yes, the 70s platforms was a brief shining exception. It would be an interesting study to examine the probably rather complex psychological factors and social changes that allowed that brief exception to flourish, and why and how it passed so swiftly and left almost no legacy other than vague quirky faintly embarrassed memories  

And then maybe we can figure out a way to start a renaissance?

[Shyheels]

5 minutes ago, p1ng74 said:

And then maybe we can figure out a way to start a renaissance?

I’m not really sure that is something one or two or even two hundred people could start, but was probably a broad cultural shift involving moments in time, politics, a particular recent past, optimism, and countless other motivations. Together they found expression in all sorts of ways, one of which happened to involve platforms. You could probably replay all of that a bunch of times and have it come out differently each time. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Shyheels

[at9]

The goth subculture still embraces platforms for both men and women. But that's not exactly mainstream and shows no tendency to head that way.

[Cali]

8 hours ago, Puffer said:

You are a prime example of what my wife would consider a pervert or deviant, Cali - so I hope you never meet!   (My apologies - I don't share that opinion.)

As to tattoos (and piercings), she considers anything other than normally pierced ears (on a woman) and perhaps a modest 'traditional' forearm tattoo (on a sailor, for example) as ugly and disfiguring - and I have to agree with her on that.   We see so many men and women whose appearance is marred by such 'adornments' as well as by shapeless, ugly and unflattering clothes - and that without considering how they speak and behave.   Yes, we are being judgmental and critical, but we both have views on the 'look' that we like, or otherwise, on people in general or each other (as do most folk if they are honest).   The problem is that her views often do not coincide with mine, particularly about what I (or men in general) should wear.

Thanks to the others who have commented.   I try to keep my head down and my 'activity' is very limited and discreet - but I walk on eggshells (difficult in heels!).

The trouble is that the real perverts wear their suits and fancy ties as they have sex with playboy bunnies and porn stars while their wives sit at home. Clothes don't make the person! Too many people hide behind their uniform (clothes - suit and tie) and live un-authentic lives, they just muddle through life.

I'm not "average" in any sense of the word and I don't live my life by others standards.  I'm sorry that you must walk on eggshells.  This does take its toll on your life, health, and happiness.

[Puffer]

5 hours ago, at9 said:

Not 100% true. In the late 1960s/early 1970s high heels, especially platforms, were often worn by men as well as women. But generally I think you're right, I can only think of the single counterexample.

What about the men who (from the mid-60s onwards) have increasingly embraced 'female' fashion norms by wearing earrings, pony tails and other long hairstyles, colourful and patterned shirts, sandals, some make-up etc?    One may argue that most or all of these looks had historically been adopted at some period by men (as of course were high heels, long boots, ruffles, tights and various other garments too) and were merely being 'retrieved' by mainly young men who wanted to make a statement in what they (rightly) perceived to be a stuffy and non-progressive world.   Some of these male fashions have (mercifully) died away again, but I very much doubt that we will see no more borrowings from across the aisle.

I think the real point is that women can and do wear and look exactly as they choose and that includes freely copying absolutely anything that men have, or once had.   Men, however, are usually ridiculed if they attempt to adopt anything that is not traditionally male (according to the society they live in), especially if it has any connotations of femininity or 'prettiness', whether actually copied from women or not.   Yes, some such looks will catch on - usually in a limited way and perhaps only briefly (as with platform shoes) but conquests in the battle for fashion freedom are rarely won by men and progress overall is slower even than Brexit!

[Shyheels]

I’m not sure what you mean. The long hair routine was very Seventies and fell swiftly out of fashion in the 80s and has never really returned in any meaningful way. Look at photos from the Seventies. The hair immediately dates them. We recognise that as another period.  You’re more likely to see a guy with a shaved or nearly shaved head than a pony tail these days.

The percentage of men who wear make up is vanishingly small.

The vast majority of men who wear sandals wear things like Tevas which do not strike me as being especially feminine. Nor are colourful shirts. There were shirt styles in the Seventies that might seem feminine in some lights, but they are very identifiably Seventies. 

There does seem to be a recent vogue for more interesting and less traditional colours and patterns in men’s shirts as seen in trendy youth oriented shops like Topman but this is hardly a linear style progression from the Seventies.

Sneaker culture is becoming an outlet for male fashion expression with more vibrant colours, but this is not being taken from the women’s aisle but rather opening a new front.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Shyheels

[p1ng74]

Long hair for guys is a lot more common and accepted than heels, at least in my environment and lifetime.  Right now in the school group my son is in all the boys are at least shoulder length.  Furthermore, long hair, especially when well cared for, can go a longer way in creating an overall feminine look than heels.  Some of my coworkers one day were chatting about their shock in encountering a guy with long hair in the men's room, as from the backside it was styled in such a way that they were convinced he was female... 

[Shyheels]

Long hair is unquestionably more common than wearing heels which is extremely rare on men. And is unquestionably more acceptable. Shoulder length hair on boys would certainly not be the norm here - I have two teenage girls and their friends do not have especially long hair. One does, shoulder length, but he is noted for that; that is his thing. (And he’s quite accepted for it) But his hair and look is certainly not feminine. Guys with truly feminine hair styles are rare - as witnessed by the shock expressed by your coworkers.  

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Shyheels

[p1ng74]

Some people say parents are steering their kids towards more "androgynous" looks as part of their agenda to normalize gender fluidity, but I think it is too early to tell what the final effect will be.  Plus, when you look at what everyone is calling "androgynous" these days, it is almost all masculine fashion.  There is very little blending in of female fashion, and the overall look seems very boring to me.  

[Shyheels]

I think the term androgynous gets dragged out when they can’t think of what else to call something. Often what is described as androgynous is vaguely military and futuristic. 

[Puffer]

6 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I’m not sure what you mean. The long hair routine was very Seventies and fell swiftly out of fashion in the 80s and has never really returned in any meaningful way. Look at photos from the Seventies. The hair immediately dates them. We recognise that as another period.  You’re more likely to see a guy with a shaved or nearly shaved head than a pony tail these days.

The percentage of men who wear make up is vanishingly small.

The vast majority of men who wear sandals wear things like Tevas which do not strike me as being especially feminine. Nor are colourful shirts. There were shirt styles in the Seventies that might seem feminine in some lights, but they are very identifiably Seventies. 

There does seem to be a recent vogue for more interesting and less traditional colours and patterns in men’s shirts as seen in trendy youth oriented shops like Topman but this is hardly a linear style progression from the Seventies.

Sneaker culture is becoming an outlet for male fashion expression with more vibrant colours, but this is not being taken from the women’s aisle but rather opening a new front.

You miss my point.   I only said that there were a number of things other than platform shoes that men had adopted (or re-adopted) from women, notably in 'the decade that style forgot', i.e. the 1970s.   I did say that many of these were (fortunately) short-lived, but they did open the door to a marginally more adventurous look for men, which continues, albeit slowly.

As the board is essentially footwear-related, it is clear that the wearing of sandals by men is now an everyday (well, weather permitting!) occurrence.   Thirty or forty years ago, very few men would wear open sandals (and without socks) of any description, except perhaps briefly at the beach or pool - that was seen as a very girly thing.   But sandals of all sorts are now very common street-wear, and styles are not limited to simple rubber flipflops, chunky hiking sandals or thickly-strapped Birkenstocks and the like - much lighter and more unisex styles are seen, some quite dressy or (in traditional terms) feminine.   

As to hairstyles, I agree that long hair on men is currently nowhere near as common as it was in the '70s.   But, here again, the point is that it became accepted (if not always acceptable) that men could wear their hair long, or in almost any style they chose, and this remains the case.   Longer hair (traditionally female since Victorian times or earlier, but before that acceptably male too) was taken back into the male boudoir, and remains there.

[Shyheels]

I vividly recall wearing sandals as a teenager in the summer, early 1970s. Nobody thought of it as girly in my world. It was quite common. 

Yes, the 60s and 70s brought a revival of long hair - but it was a revival. Hair styles have always ebbed and flowed. See pictures of Wild Bill Hickok c. 1870s or for that matter Oscar Wilde, turn of the century. It wasn't all short-back-and-sides until the 60s.  

[HappyinHeels]

Well, I'm almost 58 years old and have shoulder-length hair and wear heels. If I did everything by everyone else's conventional rules I would be a miserable robot and not the unique individual I am today. Sure the ladies adopt what they want from the men's aisle and own it but somehow it doesn't seem to work the other way. That's only if you accept it. Liberation is a two-way street. A woman really does not care if I'm dress shopping or trying on heels. I've done it dozens of times and nothing remotely negative has ever happened. If it were ever to happen that person would be cordially invited to perform an anatomically impossible act. I don't care how many men's jeans or men's shirts women want to wear. If it makes them happy then fine. Best thing many of us can do is ignore the background noise and focus only on what is in front of us. Do your own thing because you have a finite amount of time to do it. HinH

[Shyheels]

Two things strike me about this:

Women appear to have much stronger characters than men when it comes to this sort of thing, and through sheer force of character and will will carry off any look they want carry off

Secondly - and this is not so nice - society as a whole subliminally discounts femininity. A man who adopts a look or style from across the aisle - heels, for example, something less than traditionally masculine - is seen somehow as 'trading down'.   

 

[dww]

Well the only thing I can say is yes I have more than shoulder length hair and I have had this since early 60,s, yes I have been asked by a few really young herberts are you a girl or a man, but I like long hair and it's not changing, as for heels all I can say is my then wife bought me a pair of platform heeled shoes in the early 70's and I wore them, but I would not wear that style today, I only wear heels that I like to wear, and I do care what people say, I just do my own thing, you get to a time in life when you do not care anymore.

David.

[p1ng74]

Women have fairly strong opposing opinions about heels amongst themselves, which I feel always complicated the discussion of men in heels.  My wife was catching up on newspaper readings and this one was sitting on the dining room table this morning:

Why Smart, Chic Women Are Abandoning High Heels (Forever)

Some women say that heels reflect everything that is wrong with femininity, and others say it is the great equalizer in empowering women.  Here is my favorite line from the counterpoint in this article:

”Many have suggested that men invented heels to sexualize women and hold us back. That’s not strictly true, as heels’ origins as 10th-century equestrian wear prove. And while yes, heels are associated with erotic femininity (and so what?), Nancy Pelosi was no man’s object when she wore four-inch blue suede stilettos last February to deliver a commanding, eight-hour, filibuster-style speech in defense of DACA.”

All of this I am sure complicates women’s  perception of men in heels.  When a woman sees a man wearing high heels, it is such a rare sight that they might not know what to think.  Is he wearing heels to mock women?  Is this some erotic expression that is inappropriate in public?  If men start wearing heels, will that dilute the power of heels in women’s fashion?  Is this man using women’s fashion to exert dominance over me?

Women do have a tendency to analyze things more than men.  When a man sees a guy in heels, they probably make a quick judgement, whether it be that he looks hilarious, insane, stupid, sharp, or bold, and then they move on without analyzing it further.  

[Cali]

I had an interesting chat with my dentist's assistant today. First as I walked to my chair we past a woman laying back but her purple suede boots were in full display and I said, "oh those are nice boots." Beautiful boots bought in Carmel, which means very pricey, but still worth the easy drive down to check them out.

She responded by saying "I knew you were going to say something about those boots, but you have some nice ones on too. How high are they." I showed her they were about knee high. Then she told me she wore heels to a Christmas party last night,  first time in years, "boots like you wore last time".,

"Booties?"

"But they hurt after a hour."

I asked her why she bought shoe that hurt, my new response to women that tell me they can't wear heels because they hurt.

They were given to her by a friend because she does have any heels.

 

Before she put some numbing stuff in my mouth, she took the light and examine my nail polish.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Cali

[SF]

Twice over my many years of wearing high heels I have had ladies ask me if I "lost a bet or dare" and that is why I was out in high heels.  No criticism, they just seemed genuinely curious.  

Interesting.....  have fun...  sf  

[MackyHeels]

p1ng74 you said it so right!

On 12/14/2018 at 11:47 AM, p1ng74 said:

 

All of this I am sure complicates women’s  perception of men in heels.  When a woman sees a man wearing high heels, it is such a rare sight that they might not know what to think.  Is he wearing heels to mock women?  Is this some erotic expression that is inappropriate in public?  If men start wearing heels, will that dilute the power of heels in women’s fashion?  Is this man using women’s fashion to exert dominance over me?

Women do have a tendency to analyze things more than men.  When a man sees a guy in heels, they probably make a quick judgement, whether it be that he looks hilarious, insane, stupid, sharp, or bold, and then they move on without analyzing it further.  

Always ponder what woman believe when they initially observe what i wear. Often trying to guess upon there demeanour giving ques what they maybe perceiving.

Went to my favourite athletic yoga boutique recently to shop for some sharp new female sexy leggings and running tops. While being treated well by the female SA she automatically asked, WHAT SIZE DOES SHE NORMALLY WEAR? Not surprising seeing i'm shopping in the woman's section of the store. Only clues she could of caught on observing my outfit with female skinny snug fitting cropped distressed hem  jeans, with short insulated black jacket, and black leather sneakers which looked very subtle.  Wanted to correct the SA saying, No! there for me. Although feeling little awkward or a liar making her believe i'm buying it for someone else thought best to leave things alone or have any dialogue in crowded store people listening. Figure woman SA or guys in this forum find it very odd or hard to understand why a male like me wanting to dress in various woman fashions such as thong underwear, jeans, jackets, various athletic outfits, gloves, socks etc.., even though there are male counterpart outfits across the aisle in similar styles.

As i stood solely in line behind stanchions  waiting next to cash out older plain woman from my workplace came walking into the boutique few feet passing next me with another woman discussing shopping. Heard her chat about her being very aggressive shoppe don't know if she recognized me or not. Knowing her and husband are extremely  very wealthy, i wished i wore my black leather heel booties, she never seen me wearing at work, just so i would know she recognized me. Only interaction i heard from her at work was being upset telling her husband she has the same button down coloured violet shirt i was once wearing. Other then that often found her comments being negative onto my style thus never speaking to one another ignoring each other. So wearing heels to the mall would of gave her assuredly sneering, appalled expression upon the image of me standing in line with heels would be imprinted never forgetting what she observing for many days to come. 

Looking at it this way if i were in anyone else's shoes observing someone like myself.  It's as if i were buying sneakers and putting them on the opposite foot while SA trying to correct me saying your doing it all wrong yet i insist on wearing my left shoe on my right foot vice versa. So i can understand others being puzzled on what i'm wearing even laugh observing my outfits. 

While continuing to put myself in other people's shoes analyzing myself. Understand some females frustration with my outfits. Taking the point made earlier by p1ng74 of mocking woman's outfits is a valid point. To be honest it was one of reasons as many deciding to wear female clothes. Having to get even with negative minded woman. What i always knew about woman is they despised to look upon someone wearing a nice outfit that had no business in it.

For example old skinny sagging woman that had no shape trying to look good but only exaggerated her flaws even more thus bastardized the outfit in the viewers mind.

Analogy of a television having burn in issues, ghosting  for better term of a static image constantly subtly seen whenever the screen has bright light picture. So too when woman has desire to purchase a great  feminine outfit but sees it on me first, gets all upset. Only because she loved the colour. style but now when i wear it she can't get the initial picture of me in it out of her mind, like the burn in issue of a tv, it's always creeps in when you least expect it. Sort of spoils the outfit she maybe wanting to purchase for herself to wear thus getting upset or taking her anger upon me. 

Like p1ng74 remarked woman want answers for what we wear as unique or understand the significance of it. On the nude beach i get questioned about my c-rings by attractive naive young female groups asking is it for purpose of sexual activities..  On how i often respond to female questions to my c-ring sighting example from her  as wearing jewellery, earrings, bracelet, belly ring, toe ring just as accessory that's all nothing more. Yet one asking believes stumped at my answer agreeing with me but others nod smirking sarcastically doubting i wear it only for a bold fashion statement. Sometimes people's beliefs can't change no matter what you trying to explain they often think the worst or negative light believing more to it then it is.

While i know not every woman can be painted with same wide brush being all alike. Have to say some woman i've talked to notice me for sure and complemented  often enough. While i try to figure out why the positive feedback from one group of women versus another negative vibe about my outfit is intriguing and puzzling.

Had chat with a goddess female trainer at my gym, she finally recognized me from my workplace explaining she works part time there also, for five years. She stated an example recognizing me accompanied by her gym client that she described to him that's the same guy that visits her gym. The client responded you mean the man wearing the  tights in the gym. She exclaimed yah! She told me although i wear lot looser clothes at work versus the gym outfits, Lol... She replied to co-workers and client when initially recognizing me, do these people surrounding him know exactly what  type of great body he has under those clothes, again laughing at me with her tongue ring sticking out.... Just surreal that we worked so long never ran into each other or recognized  before now. Just because i wear my feminine tight gym outfit unique to any male visiting the gym, it often stands out, less likely to be forgotten or recognized by others. My only question is why it took 5 years....

Yet as our chat went along couldn't help notice her wandering eyes upon my new feminine gym tight outfit. Yes very feminine sparkle heathered violet red LS she kept eyeballing onto  paired with smokey green leggings.  Nothing more satisfying wearing new gym outfit so motivating to visit the gym to show off my new digs.

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by MackyHeels

[Cali]

4 hours ago, MackyHeels said:

While being treated well by the female SA she automatically asked, WHAT SIZE DOES SHE NORMALLY WEAR? 

This is normal for this time of year when most men shopping in a woman's section are shopping for their wives or girlfriend(s). I just usually say "I'm a size 8 or medium."  No need to say more.

 

[MackyHeels]

1 hour ago, Cali said:

This is normal for this time of year when most men shopping in a woman's section are shopping for their wives or girlfriend(s). I just usually say "I'm a size 8 or medium."  No need to say more.

 

Laughing at that comment your so right!

Yet seeing most female SA are young they likely might not pick up on the comment and find your trying to being comical. Asking excuse me do you mean her, not you, funny guy,  giggling.... Feel some benign female young SA college age  i don't have any gripes  particularly needing to push her buttons. Just give me the size and style i'm asking for and go back doing nothing, thank you very much. Don't need to get personal on whom am i buying it for,  as one SA asked me  near mothers day.

If SA assumes i'm buying leggings for myself they may ask me to try them on for size just for intrigue or entertainment purposes. Believe me it would be tempting with my exhibitionist tendencies to model female leggings and tops in the store boutique. Did it before once but that's entirely different experience in virtual empty store. Yet the SA on my recent visit told me your sure about her size? In these styles  some find it better fitting sizing down? I said nothing although they were my first purchase for these particular style leggings yet i already fitted them earlier directly from my sisters cache of particular style different colour leggings. 

Few weeks ago had female SA at another particular yoga boutique picking up few leggings for myself. As i asked for certain, styles, colour, names and specific size. The helpful female SA warned me these leggings are meant for yoga rather then working out. I smiled nodding yes i know. She looked upon me afterwards reflecting saying, Wow! you certainly come prepared, knowing exactly what you want. I said nothing with grin except, thanks. Sometimes it's amusing listening to other woman shoppers never wearing leggings before talking to SA about them which specifically  wear all the time in the gym and purchase often. Just once, wishing to interjecting in a conversation  telling them it makes your butt look great while others more durable flatten your booty honey. Take it from me i know, you should see the stares i get from woman at the gym wearing them.... i could dream saying that what reaction would you say i get..?

It's far easier to buy women clothes at this time of the season being asked you need a gift receipt. Rather getting those intrigued confused stares judging me if i was buying the female clothes for myself. Doubt i care seeing almost every post on IG i hashtag the companies brand or local store. Any female vaguely interested would easily recognize me from the many photos i post in the leggings they sell. That's why often i wonder if some female SA recognize me on IG when i walk into a particular store, yet never say a word but gleefully smile for no apparent reason.

Edited December 16, 2018 by MackyHeels

[nzfreestyler]

I don't have that problem cause I am wearing a skirt or a dress so they can figure it out... unless they're really slow....

[Cali]

Macky you buy a lot of leggings. I have about 30 leggings and yoga pants. But you are always buying. Where do you store them?

[HappyinHeels]

Maybe he's a worldwide legging baron . You have to admit though leggings take up much less space than shoes. Maybe we all need a warehouse! I've got a pole barn so I'm set. HinH

[Shyheels]

I could certainly use more space. I do not have many pairs, but tall boots in large sizes take up an astonishing amount of wardrobe space.

[MackyHeels]

 

3 hours ago, Cali said:

Macky you buy a lot of leggings. I have about 30 leggings and yoga pants. But you are always buying. Where do you store them?

Always buying new ones feels, refreshing better than older ones with similar colour. When i outfit myself out in public i get satisfaction from  observing females envious, jealous what i wear. Compared to older cache style or colour leggings people seen me often worn for few weeks at least. Styles stay the same but colour changes slightly some might not purchase because it's not worth it yet subtly i can tell so to for others with decening eye. Even though buying leggings often having the hue changes slightly there is sense people feel as i that newer fresher colour is deemed more eye catching then the older leggings.

Anyway you haven't asked where i keep my tops, short shorts, but leggings are best hung over the old barber chairs have three to pile on including socks and thongs in boxes Underneath the chairs are my cache of sneakers including some bootie heels which are few. You can say it becomes very difficult to choose the right colour of leggings to wear each day in the gym. Sometimes colour of the day online chooses my outfits or just buy the newest trendiest out there wear them for cycle of few weeks before new stuff or colours comes out. Gets rather frustrating wearing leggings for maybe four or five times liking them but newer colours are purchased and they take priority to wear running out of daya of the week to cycle through them. Bought new sneakers yet have not worn them only because the colour schemes don't match with my outfits. Yet i know the newer colours down the pipeline will finally arrive to wear my new sneakers. 

There hasn't been a style of leggings or colour i wouldn't dare to wear unless there contrary to compliment my figure. Feel i'm legging guru knowing what works on my body rather playing it safe with colours like so many women do. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by MackyHeels

[JeffB]

7 hours ago, nzfreestyler said:

I don't have that problem cause I am wearing a skirt or a dress so they can figure it out... unless they're really slow....

HA! It's the same with me! Kindred spirits!

[CAT]

9 hours ago, Cali said:

Macky you buy a lot of leggings. I have about 30 leggings and yoga pants. But you are always buying. Where do you store them?

I’m pretty bad too for myself. 90% of what I buy is Lululemon.  I have at least 70 pair of leggings as well as men’s tops and define jackets as well as other 1/4 zips and men’s button down shirts.   Now the problem,,,,,,, my GF is a Pilates instructor you think i have a lot? She is completely decked out. I also have 2 girls who have a ton of Lulu.  My son has no leggings but s Ton from the men’s side.   I don’t even want to l know what the dollars are. Crazy I’m sure.   I do understand where Macky is coming from.  We are at Lulu usually 3-4 times per month as the styles are the same but the colors and patterns change and there is always something new we have to get!!!! 

[p1ng74]

6 hours ago, MackyHeels said:

Always buying new ones feels, refreshing better than older ones with similar colour. When i outfit myself out in public i get satisfaction from  observing females envious, jealous what i wear. 

@MackyHeels while we might agree on being sensitive to what women are thinking, we don't seem to agree on our approach to this sensitivity.  Envy and jealousy are powerful emotions.  On the positive side, jealousy can be inspiring.  Yes, I get jealous of how much fun some people have when I see pictures and read their heeling accounts, and I think I have been inspired to try new things.  I know people around notice what I am doing, and I hope we have a positive interaction, so that we can all be inspired to enjoy different things.  But in order to keep things positive, we have to be sensitive and know when to slow down.  If your outfits are intended to stoke envy in such a way that it body shames other women, it will likely lead to many negative interactions with them.  And this danger is not just with women's clothes - I have specifically seen a situation where a man crossed this line at work with a masculine outfit.