Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[Shyheels]

I’m waiting for a rotary smartphone. 

[Cali]

Don't hold your breath Shyheels, I hear that it's still years away.

But I assume you still have your stone tablets, hammer, and chisel.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Cali

[Shyheels]

I am waiting for the hammer to be developed to my satisfaction. I don’t want to jump into anything.  My present tool of choice is a nicely shaped hand axe made of chert.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Shyheels

[kneehighs]

18 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I cannot for the life of me see how the relative dates of our joining HHP could have any possible relevance to a discussion about early adopters. In 2002 I had no interest whatever in wearing heels so why would I seek out and join a forum on the topic? Indeed my interest, such as it is, even now is only a tangential one. I found the site while searching for classy (non fetish), riding style knee or otk boots my (large) size. I joined and stayed to play the Word Game and because I liked the offbeat society here. Later Intrigued by what I read here I tried a pair of stiletto boots and quite enjoyed the novelty. But I don’t have anything like the passion of others on here. It wasn’t like I lurked on the site for years without joining. 

Because pre-2007, self expression as promoted through social media was close to zero.  People would often comment: if only the New York Times would pump men in heels; if only more cultural celebrities would wear heels; if heels for men labels were only designed; etc.  Mentions of men wearing heels as men were rare.  Now, that our community actually has those experiences to our benefit (largely learned about through social media), people criticize the change that we so longed for back in 2007.  "It's not enough.  It'll never work.  No one will wear ever wear that."  

Personally, the contrast in broadcasting of support is something I appreciate deeply.  New generations of millennials and Gen-z are much more tolerant and even accepting of men in heels--in large part b/c of social media.

[Shyheels]

These jazzily labelled generations may condone such heeled exuberance on Instagram and, in the abstract, they may even aspire to it themselves - but only in the abstract. To date none of these glitzy showing on Instagram etc has translated to any large or even moderately large manufacturers of shoes or boots turning out heels for men. They are not in the shops, not on the streets and so rarely seen on real live men that in all of my travels - and I travel a lot - I have never once seen a man in heels. Not in cities, not in airports, not in train stations - nor for that matter at music festivals. Never.

Such a phenomenon, if it exists, exists only in social media and has skipped the real world entirely.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Shyheels

[Steve63130]

SF,

That's ok. I remember now. It's been a while since I used one (4 decades!), and I forgot. LOL

Hey, I've got a riddle for ya. What's a 10-letter word that you can type using only the top row of letters QWERTYUIOP? (Hint: you don't have to use all the letters and you can use others more than once.)

You will be amused by the answer.

And to keep on topic, I'm in my black Clarks "Banoy Tulia" sandals today.

Steve

 

[Shyheels]

Answer: typewriter

[SF]

Steve....   OK, I will drag the typewriter out and try to figure it out.    I actually still have one.  And a rotary phone, it still works.  

Will be my project for this rainy day in Alaska..  

I like the Clarks sandals too.   Very stylish.  

See ya.....   sf

 

 

[kneehighs]

6 hours ago, Shyheels said:

These jazzily labelled generations may condone such heeled exuberance on Instagram and, in the abstract, they may even aspire to it themselves - but only in the abstract. To date none of these glitzy showing on Instagram etc has translated to any large or even moderately large manufacturers of shoes or boots turning out heels for men. They are not in the shops, not on the streets and so rarely seen on real live men that in all of my travels - and I travel a lot - I have never once seen a man in heels. Not in cities, not in airports, not in train stations - nor for that matter at music festivals. Never.

Such a phenomenon, if it exists, exists only in social media and has skipped the real world entirely.

Is the glass half full or half empty?  Keep convincing yourself little changes aren't worth being grateful for.  You do a damned good job of it.  

[Cali]

Shyheels, where were you in the 70's, 80's, and 90's?  I had heels back then; platform shoes for men, shoes with a wavy thick 3 inch rubber sole, and disco. And I acquisition a pair of 3 inch shooties as well.

You claim you have never seen many of things in your worldly travels, but I would be willing to bet you've had these things right before you but it never registered in you brain. I bet I could walk right past you in a crowd airport terminal with a pair of stiletto boots (under my pants) and you would never notice.  And with the ambient noise, you would never hear the click.

[Shyheels]

Fine Cali, you wear heels. I get that. A poll of members on this site would suggest heel wearing is universal among men.

I am a trained observer - I make my living at it - and an inveterate people watcher. I do not miss much. What’s more I have an active curiosity on the subject. I doubt very much you would walk by me in stilettos without my noticing. 

We can look at this another way - where are the racks of heeled shoes for men in the high street shops and department stores? All these thousands of men who are wearing heels, trooping through airports, train stations, sitting at cafes, walking down city streets unnoticed by me must be buying them somewhere. And somebody must be making them. Who? Where? 

On other threads on this site there is much made of the fact that fewer and fewer women  are wearing heels and yet you would have me believe that men in heels is on a sharp upward climb?  Contrary to all the evidence of my eyes and the commercial realities on the high street?

4 hours ago, kneehighs said:

Is the glass half full or half empty?  Keep convincing yourself little changes aren't worth being grateful for.  You do a damned good job of it.  

It’s not a matter of pessimism or optimism but one of rushing to judgement and dodgy evidence.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Shyheels

[kneehighs]

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

It’s not a matter of pessimism or optimism but one of rushing to judgement and dodgy evidence.

It's a matter of being grateful for the small changes, not constantly discounting the positive year after year.  That's pessimism--if you can even admit it to yourself.  

EDIT: your belief that all small change symbolized by favorable social media activity is abstract (but not reality) is merely confirmation bias. 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by kneehighs

[Shyheels]

No, it's not. It's thirty-five years as a journalist with a healthy professional scepticism for unknown sources, especially those who have not proven themselves reliable or in the case of social media have a reputation for unreliability if not outright fraud. Especially when the sources are telling me things that are not consistent with anything else. A good rule is having at least two unrelated sources for any kind of confirmation, and also being able to explain away whatever inconsistencies or contradictions there may be between their evidence and what you are seeing and hearing elsewhere. A few Instagrammers doesn't come near to passing that test, not when there is such overwhelming evidence to the contrary.    

And what changes do you mean? An instagrammers gets a few likes wearing heels? Prince was doing that for years and he was far, far, far bigger than any of these niche Instagrammers you hold up as heralds of change. Furthermore whenever men in heels are in the press or social media they are nearly always gay men, presented as gay men and heel-wearing in general presented as an idiosyncrasy of gay men - there is hardly much change there in terms of attitude or perception, and it is nothing that is likely to sell the man in the street on wearing heels or the notion of men in heels.

  

Edited August 8, 2018 by Shyheels

[kneehighs]

Shyheels--You are ungrateful.  Point blank.   Even for small change there is room to practice gratitude.   Compared to where we were pre-social media era, we're in a better spot now.

Go on being ungrateful.  The only confirmation being done is your own bias.

Further, I'm not about to put together data and statistics proving ROI for social media here.  Audience = 20-30 people?  And no money to be gained.  So not worth my time.

EDIT: with due respect Shyheels, I have blocked all forms of communication with you.  The constant ungratefulness, constant cynicism, constant pessimism without so much as lifting a finger to provide constructive value to grow the community is disappointing.  In 16 years here, I've never had to do this.  Not even with J-turbo.  

Edited August 8, 2018 by kneehighs

[Shyheels]

Suit yourself. I am sorry you feel that way. I have not been rude or aggressive nor have I sunk to making personal characterisations about you - such as cynical or ungrateful - but have merely voiced scepticism about the sea change in values you apparently believe society is experiencing. And why should I not? You say tomato, I say tomato - insert accent - and this is after all, a forum, a platform for discussion and debate. 

personally, I am all for a more enlightened attitude towards individualism and self expression but I am not a starry eyed believer in everything that appears on social media, especially when it is so at odds with what I see in the real world - and given my travels I see a lot - not to mention the troubles with credibility social media is experiencing of late.

Cheers

Edited August 8, 2018 by Shyheels

[HappyinHeels]

Let me offer this as an observation. Whilst kneehighs makes valid points as to changing attitudes that does not translate into legions of men wearing heels in the mainstream. Shyheels makes a valid point about reading too much into social media commentary. Social media is a tool which, when properly used in context, can enhance our lives rather than guide our lives. I too was a trained observer for better than 31 years and have not noticed more than a scant number of men in heels. This does not negate the unavoidable fact that millions of people worldwide are able to express themselves with far more ease than would have been the case a few decades ago. You both are essentially correct. I'd like to think those who benefit from increased self-expression may have taken what Gandhi said long ago; "Be the change you want to see in this world". HappyinHeels

[SF]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, relax your sphincters.....   sf

 

[Shyheels]

2 hours ago, SF said:

Gentlemen, gentlemen, relax your sphincters.....   sf

 

Sounds messy

[Jkrenzer]

Yah, getting kind of personal here.

The reality is, heels will never be mainstream in male attire, we are and always will be outliers. Acceptance is another thing and it's been my personal experience to not be an issue. I had a long conversation with a female bartender last Friday night wear she simply said if I'm happy wearing heels than nothing else matters. She quickly pointed out she'd not be able to wear the heels i was wearing,  Casadie blades, but really loved the color,  deep orange patent. I told her I wear them because I love both the look and feel.

Side bar, heels are really outliers for women too. My experience again is far less than 50% of women rarely if ever wear heels over 2 inches.

[CAT]

10 hours ago, SF said:

Gentlemen, gentlemen, relax your sphincters.....   sf

 

LMAO

BLAZING SADDLES?

rest not relax thou 

still funny 

Edited August 9, 2018 by CAT

[kneehighs]

I have no idea what was written.  But I will say this, I have been contributing to this thread since June 18, 2007.  That's 11 years of free service/contribution (like Tech, Bubba, and only a handful of others who still remain from back then). 

The market decided to update this thread more than the Runway, Rockers, and Celebrities in Heels thread started on January 11, 2006.

The threads purpose was never to create concrete proof that heels for men would be built on billion dollar supply chains in Italy, sold on Amazon.com, and promoted on the nightly news for months as the new male fashion trend.  The threads purpose was to inspire community members to wear heels in public.  Just like hhplace.org once provided actionable encouragement to wear heels in public within the community, the thread was designed to show how others from outside the community were also experimenting with heels. 

I'm one for free expression, but when contributing my free time and energy to something, I'd rather protect my long term contributions from unnecessary risk of what I perceive as constant pattern over the years of daily dissuading commentary.

Edited August 9, 2018 by kneehighs

[Shyheels]

Hmmm...Not to put too fine a point on things, sunshine, but I have nearly 8000 posts and I put a value on my time too.

Now let’s end this silliness and get the thread back on topic.

On that score, one area where I have noticed a positive change is in the colour palette available for menswear - a far greater range is available now and in shades that ten years ago would have been considered feminine.

[Gudulitooo]

What Shyheels misses is that today, for younger people, posting a selfie is equivalent to go out in public and having your friends, familly, employer, agent, hairdresser, ennemies, in-laws, be aware of it. A post in the social media has a much greater impact on the poster's life that anything a guy like me ever posted under the cover of a pseudo.

What Kneehighs misses, as HiH stressed, is that it seems that after expressing themselves on the social media, these guys are satisfied and can live back to regular boring formal globally accepted day to day attire. Virtual self expression seems enough while standardized attire will do for real life.

Do you think this could explain why Shyheels experiences a lack of men wearing heels on his radar? 

Another concern raised by Cali is the quick and wide spread of heels for men in the 70's, whose speed is absolutely not matched by the sluggish present trend. Do you think it will keep on lurking instead of coming out ?

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Gudulitooo
reduced blabla

[Cali]

On 8/7/2018 at 5:03 PM, Shyheels said:

I am a trained observer - I make my living at it - and an inveterate people watcher. I do not miss much. What’s more I have an active curiosity on the subject. I doubt very much you would walk by me in stilettos without my noticing. 

It is obviously true that if no male wore heels around you, then you would not see a male in heels. And it is also obvious that the contrapositive, if you see a male in heels, then a male wore heels around you. But the converse is not equivalent and is false: If you didn't see a male in heels, then no male wore heels around you.

By your own words, you don't miss much, therefore you do miss some. How do you know for sure that I haven't already walked pass you in stilettos without you noticing? 

[Shyheels]

This is just trolling. I've no time for this.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Shyheels

[Tech]

@kneehighs, you have your opinions, but seriously, do NOT start insulting others and demanding them to be grateful or having a go at them if they are not grateful.

Really bad form. I cant help but agree with Shyheels, he does his thing, has his opinions, but he isn't having a crack at you or demanding that you be grateful for anything.

If he wants to be sceptical, so be it, he can be whoever he wants, just as you can, and he shouldn't have to put-up with others being rude to him for it.

[Shyheels]

22 hours ago, Gudulitooo said:

What Shyheels misses is that today, for younger people, posting a selfie is equivalent to go out in public and having your friends, familly, employer, agent, hairdresser, ennemies, in-laws, be aware of it. A post in the social media has a much greater impact on the poster's life that anything a guy like me ever posted under the cover of a pseudo.

What Kneehighs misses, as HiH stressed, is that it seems that after expressing themselves on the social media, these guys are satisfied and can live back to regular boring formal globally accepted day to day attire. Virtual self expression seems enough while standardized attire will do for real life.

Do you think this could explain why Shyheels experiences a lack of men wearing heels on his radar? 

Another concern raised by Cali is the quick and wide spread of heels for men in the 70's, whose speed is absolutely not matched by the sluggish present trend. Do you think it will keep on lurking instead of coming out ?

 

I am hardly the only one on this forum who has never encountered a man wearing heels. This is an observation that has been voiced by many on here.  I think your point in selfies is well taken - virtual self expression. I read an interesting article the other day about a Dutch model who has been the face of L’Oreal for the past ten years. She said she was doing her best to teach her children that what they see on the internet does not reflect real life. And she is someone who would be at the pointy end of all this.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Shyheels

[SF]

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is a Going On????    he he......     sf

[at9]

@Shyheels, I have seen men, as men,  in high heels. I exclude fancy dress parties, Rocky Horror, drag shows, rock stars, cross-dressers  and suchlike as high heels would be commonly seen on men in these circumstances.

I'm old enough to remember the 1970s when heeled footware for men was commonplace. I wonder if or when it will ever come round again. More recently I've seen men in heeled footware around Camden Town in London. But that's the sort of area where you'll see all sorts of unusual clothing. Aside from that, perhaps the occasional pair of cowboy boots with a 2" heel. I've seen expensive heeled footwear for men on display in high-end stores such as Selfridges. Not seen it being worn.

[Pierre1961]

Hello @at9

as i am old enough as well,I should have a memory of these guys in high heels. But I don't have .

what kind of heels was it? I am curious!