Obervations can get you in to trouble

[gibby]

Basically,    Temporary manager at the apartment complex I live at.    I said too the lady nice nail polish (O.P.I or Essie  I said)    followed by  nice ballerina flats and she had her feet out and I said nice pedicure.    Conversation involved  asking if she was married and her response was engaged 11 years.   She told me without asking she had older teenagers.    I am married    by the way and   I always compliment any Lady    ( might not after this.)   nice outfit or shoes   nail polish or hairdo.    2 days later I am smoking a cigarette  with the maintenance man  we are friends there and he said I need to let you know   the manager was uncomfortable with  you talking about how her nails and shoes and  she mentioned this the other temp manager too.          friend said  I might steer  clear of the office. for awhile.         Would that have been harassment on my part?            Thank goodness I did not mention the 100 pairs of  pretty shoes I own    And a good thing I was not wearing a pretty pair.    Opinions please.

 

 

[SF]

A lot of these “percieved” claims of harassment boil down to how (and by who) the comment was made. Society has gotten so schizophrenic about this nonsense that for the past many years I have forgone the pleasure and politeness of complementing any woman, or man for that matter, regarding any aspect of their dress or appearance.  An extreme stance I realize, but it works well for me.

Particularily in the work environment. A harassment claim, real or percieved can cost you and your employer dearly.  

A crying shame we have evolved to this state.   Sorry this happened Gibby, maybe a lesson learned.  

Just my two cents, I am certain others will offer their opinion as well.  

Having said that, have fun in your heels, I know I do, compliments or not....  ha ha     sf

[Shyheels]

Your extreme stance is probably the only sensible stance in any workplace these days. It is simply too risky anymore to say anything but the most anodyne work-related comments to anybody. Even 'hello' is probably risky if you say it in the wrong tone of voice.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Shyheels

[jetheelsfan]

As I was growing up, I had perceived that the female of the species should be respected and placed above other male friends.   Chivalry was alive and the norm in treating the female.  Open doors, give compliments, make them feel special and such were considered the norm.  But then the tables began to turn with the women's lib movement.  The desire for equal treatment has had a whiplash effect - IMHO.  Males have had the tendency to be more physical with friendly attention - the punch on the shoulder, the kick in the tush, and other physical interaction.  But when that happens to some females, LOOKOUT!  Now it has become common to try to ignore the features a female uses to draw attention.  Some complain when we notice and then complain if they are ignored.  The dichotomy has become a double edge sword to male/female interaction.  So many time, I have wanted to compliment someone about their attire but never attempt to even acknowledge their presence by even a glance.  Kind of like the scene in Star Wars … Nothing here. Move along.   

[MackyHeels]

4 hours ago, SF said:

A lot of these “percieved” claims of harassment boil down to how (and by who) the comment was made. Society has gotten so schizophrenic about this nonsense that for the past many years I have forgone the pleasure and politeness of complementing any woman, or man for that matter, regarding any aspect of their dress or appearance.  An extreme stance I realize, but it works well for me.

Particularily in the work environment. A harassment claim, real or percieved can cost you and your employer dearly.  

A crying shame we have evolved to this state.   Sorry this happened Gibby, maybe a lesson learned.  

Just my two cents, I am certain others will offer their opinion as well.  

Having said that, have fun in your heels, I know I do, compliments or not....  ha ha     sf

Agreed I do the same keep my trap closed. Only because it maybe pereceived as creepy be it my tone or the way they I’m dressed. I notice and pickup visual ques from the ladies understanding there not to keen on my choice of style. Meaning how boldly and exhibitionist I wear it showing my body  bulges  and curves. 

When people on the c/o beach ask me questions. Often they state don’t take this the wrong way, or don’t get offended.., may I ask you question, sorry to bother you...etc... In all my examples it often follows a compliment of sorts. 

Some people respect other people more then others. So when man dresses as a woman people can assume something is wrong mentally about him. So anything he says to them compliment or not is often taken with a grain af salt. That’s why I never give compliment to a woman about her outfit. One reason being I’m a male wearing female gym gear how’s my opinion of her  clothes taken to heart or serious. Them think him as a man doesn’t know how to dress his opinion worthless.  Did that once to female in the gym commenting that I got to stay clear of you, being those cheetah wild cat leggings make you vicious. Then I tempered it saying they look nice on you, I like them. She smiled pausing with chuckle thanking me but knowing her negative demeanour with her boyfriend  over the years my comment made no impact either way..  Although do feel she felt wanting to quirk back having me wear them. Yet she may have felt it maybe taken as joking stab or criticism of my female legging style at the gym. Or very least think I may want to buy wearing same leggings in the gym as her. 

Also people are private often don’t want to share information about there status, married divorced, single,  engaged to stranger they just met, feels uncomfortable. 

We as males have to be careful not to be perceived that we are flirting with females. We as humans pickup ques when someone targets us with affection. This makes us uncomfortable when the person doing it is someone you don’t respect. 

Have a female gym member compliment me  on my body. Every visit afterwards we run into one another. We never say a word to one another. Often hiding our face onto our phones or look the other direction in passing.  While I do notice as she does of each other. We act is if we are strangers. Yet I feel as she we enjoy flaunting ourselves being visible what we wear to one another, getting satisfaction from slight glance reaction of what we are wearing in the gym. Either making the other envious what we have on or simply shy in  conversation. 

Only reason I keep away from said gym woman is her social media blogs learning her personality. Self absorbed following textbook steps to improve her life. Try talking to someone  new that you never  would seeing how it may change her life. Etc.., 

Yet in past I observed her closely of perception of me in the gym . Everything I heard and observed with her interaction with others simply her tone of voice of me was negative. Or very least jealous or envious of my clothes or body. That is why her changing ways of improving her life is temporary lie. People don’t change that much and I leave it at that. If she comments again or starts asking questions I say little as possible rather be suduced with sweet words which are only meant to have me open up of what I’m all about. 

While I observe many woman stare upon my gym outfits envious what I’m wearing or my body. Although many aftraid to compliment it or say a kind word. Only because it may cause me wrongly to believe they are infatuated with me. They just rather look staring with an open mouth silent rather simply saying something nice in fear I might interpret there words differently. That tells me a lot if I were to say nice things back. They may think  cross dresser at the gym likes me ha, ha thought he was gay as if she would ever consider befriending me or stepping out on the street way the way i style myself to there amusement or embarrassment least going out on a date. 

 

One sure way I feel the temperature what woman think of me is by soicial media. Send out a picture of me outfitted on the beach or gym. If the woman responds back usually it’s positive. If no response is given I have my answer. 

 

One compliment i will will always remember. Acted as if I was shocked at the time was easy to do. Older married tanned skinny lean fit  one track minded female with very posh appearance . Noticed she observed me carefully closely over months but nothing had been spoken even hello or smile only her odd stares upon me. Working out next to her stationary bike often felt she wanted to say something to me but never did. You know the type of I’m about to say a comment then forgoing it. Only imagined what was going through her mind. Closely watching her through my periferal vision. Felt uncomfortable vibe from her like she wanted to get off her chest but was afraid. My instincts told me it was her sexual desires, urges to try to befriend me yet fighting them off because of marriage. Felt she was fighting internal sexual  battle within herself attraction towards me. Daydreaming of me how interaction would grow maybe sexual act being performed.  Wishful thinking of my part but her past gym membership when single knew of her sexual exploits with many men, when I was young gym novice overhearing chatter on the cardio machines with girlfriends while I wasn’t on her radar wearing modest clothes myself.

 Much later I learned her infatuation of my body part got her in serious trouble with the husband  and truth came out overhearing  talking to mutual minded female younger friend. Oh boy were my ears burning and past  instincts and assumption were correct. Her mind was filled with nasty sexual thoughts about me  every time we were at the gym. To point she changed time of day visits and later gym not to run into me. Out of sight out of mind as she put it. No point driving her infatuation upon me stronger more she seen me workout in the gym. Remember telling me do you mind if I just watch you workout, while waiting to use the same equipment. 

 

We both were on the gym floor attempting to gather the same dumbbell weights from a rack. In between two busy bench’s with tight squeeze. We faced each other she gathered the weight first telling me to look for heavier weights beating me to it. I sighed, but she was only foot across from my face same height as me. Her head looked down upon my leggings I was wearing saying with sly smile, very impressive as to clearly remark upon my bulge she was looking upon. Often I seen her looking upon my bulge in leggings at the gym alongside her husband never saying a word. Other people noticed and heard her sexual derived compliment about my outline package easily seen through my female leggings. Didn’t know how to react to be pleased, embarrassed or be angry at her overt sexual compliment in front of virtually everyone except her husband who was absent at the time. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by MackyHeels

[SF]

During my 30 plus year, non remarkable career, attaining the coveted “Peter Principle” status, I was told by a very, very few that I was percieved as “mean” and “unfriendly” by some female employees... Go figure, at least I tried....  Looking back, I find the whole thing comical.....    smile

Take care all....   sf

[Jkrenzer]

SF, hate to say this but the "Peter Principle" in business is promote those who can't over those who can to not disrupt productivity. It's classic American business process. Leave the the good productive people to produce and make the less productive managers to reduce the risk of upsetting the flow. Currently on display at the white house. 

Typical short sighted business school philosophy, the belief that those who can won't teach those who can't so simply promote those who can't. 

[Pumped]

On 8/3/2018 at 3:55 PM, SF said:

During my 30 plus year, non remarkable career, attaining the coveted “Peter Principle” status, I was told by a very, very few that I was percieved as “mean” and “unfriendly” by some female employees... Go figure, at least I tried....  Looking back, I find the whole thing comical.....    smile

Take care all....   sf

Then you get in trouble if you are too friendly. You can not win! I try to be "business casual" and keep small talk to a minimum. Although i work with a 60-something year old gal that is tough and full of B.S. She has told me more than once to "F" off when I give her a little hard time. It probably helps that I knew her before i was employed with this company.

I work with a tall attractive young lady that wears heels most days. I long  to compliment her on her footwear and often the clothing she is wearing but bite my tounge and don't say a thing as I am afraid it will taken wrong.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Pumped

[nyenor]

I have heard of this type of thing before. I recall several years ago, can't remember exactly where I read it, but a guy got abused for holding a door open for a woman, sharply told 'I'm quite capable of opening a door". Weeks later, same woman, same man, "I thought a gentleman held a door open for a lady". This by his own admission after he deliberately let it go in her face.

[pebblesf]

An interesting topic for sure...

This situation is tough to judge without being there, sensing her verbal/non verbal cues, etc.  Too many specific compliments/compliments might have been interpreted the wrong way, perhaps she felt you were "creeping on her" or trying to make a date with her...Just want to make sure I have it right though.  Are you the temporary manager, or were you complimenting the temporary manager?   I try to be very mindful of other's reactions when I compliment a guy/gal's boots.  I give one basic compliment, you can usually tell by verbal/non verbal cues if they are interested in talking more...I am reminded of the time I complimented a male passenger on one of my flights who was wearing beautiful knee high riding boots over his jeans.  I couldn't help myself, and have to give him a compliment.  He didn't seem eager to be complimented, perhaps he thought I was a creepy old guy, or perhaps he did not want attention drawn to his outfit.  I was careful to leave him alone during the rest of the flight, figured he would initiate conversation with me during one of the many times I passed by, if he was interested in talking. 

[Shyheels]

I wear very nice knee high riding boots over my jeans and don’t mind compliments - when I get them, that is. As far as I can tell, and I don’t really pay attention, nobody notices.

We are fast becoming a very fearful society rigorously controlled by mob rule on Twitter.

[pebblesf]

2 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

I wear very nice knee high riding boots over my jeans and don’t mind compliments - when I get them, that is. As far as I can tell, and I don’t really pay attention, nobody notices.

We are fast becoming a very fearful society rigorously controlled by mob rule on Twitter.

Wish you were on one of my flights!

[Shyheels]

Thanks. I fly all over the world but, oddly enough, almost never to America. Haven’t been there in at least five years. And seldom before that. One drawback with wearing nice pull-on knee boots when you fly is having to take them off for security. They have chairs on the other side of the barrier for you to sit and out your shoes/boots back on, but none where you need to take them off. And it is hard to take off pull-on knee boots standing up!

[gibby]

she is the temporary  manager.        I am a tenant   going into the office too ask a question about my rent..             My apologies,   the first few words make it seem like I was the temporary manager.      This might change the answers now.

Complimenting her.    Me knowing  about nail polish  might be the catalyst.       Ladies in the past I knew or worked with loved when I noticed  their new nail polish or shoes or outfit Etc.    I noticed and their husbands or boyfriends did not

[SF]

It doesn’t change my answer in the least.....   

And, can we - at least for this thread - leave politics out of it??   Hmmmmmm??

Gracias.......   have fun...   sf

[Shyheels]

I hadn’t noticed that politics was playing much of a part in this thread. In fact I had to scroll up and reread everything to try to find the reference I think you were referring to. It has hardly dominated the discussion. Nobody but you picked up on it.

At any rate, I think we’re all agreed that extreme caution is wise in any form of communication these days 

 

[jetheelsfan]

11 hours ago, nyenor said:

I have heard of this type of thing before. I recall several years ago, can't remember exactly where I read it, but a guy got abused for holding a door open for a woman, sharply told 'I'm quite capable of opening a door". Weeks later, same woman, same man, "I thought a gentleman held a door open for a lady". This by his own admission after he deliberately let it go in her face.

Give crap out once be willing to take the crap back as it fertilized and developed a hardened heart. 

Reply could have been, "Last time I thought I was in the presence of one but was taught I was wrong. I do not make the same mistake twice!"  

[Lime15]

Yet another discussion online that rolls into classifying people into categories of how they should or shouldn't respond to a complement.

You complemented someone, it made them uncomfortable.  She didn't push the issue as she is temporary staff and such would be unprofessional. (just like when someone has an asinine crazy rant toward a retail worker who will stand there and take it under professionalism - although they are paid nowhere near enough to be harassed)  She talked to a co-worker about it (maintenance), someone who is a regular employee.  Property managers and maintenance supervisors talk a lot about work as they're usually the only two regular employees at an apartment complex.

Put yourself in her position for a moment - you are a temporary employee and one of your tenants comes up to you one day.  They complement you on your nail polish - then your shoes - then your feet - then ask if you are married.  What are you supposed to say in response?  "Back the hell off weirdo." No, you have to be professional, that's the job - you sit there and take it.  Her saying she has teenage kids was probably a bit of a defense to get you to back off.  How the hell is she supposed to know you are married?  Even if she does, how is she supposed to know if that would prevent you from making advances toward her?  Being married isn't license to creep on people, in my opinion you crossed a bit of a line here.

Everyone has a right to feel uncomfortable at any time.

 

6 hours ago, gibby said:

Ladies in the past I knew or worked with loved when I noticed  their new nail polish or shoes or outfit Etc.    I noticed and their husbands or boyfriends did not 

All women are not the same.  All men are not the same.  All people are not the same.  Say it with me, "When you assume, you make an ass out of...

[SF]

Oh it’s there.  Otherwise I would not have commented on it.    

Now let’s move on please.   Smile....

Have fun......    sf

[Shyheels]

We already have...

[Sydheel]

On 8/4/2018 at 4:00 PM, Shyheels said:

Thanks. I fly all over the world but, oddly enough, almost never to America. Haven’t been there in at least five years. And seldom before that. One drawback with wearing nice pull-on knee boots when you fly is having to take them off for security. They have chairs on the other side of the barrier for you to sit and out your shoes/boots back on, but none where you need to take them off. And it is hard to take off pull-on knee boots standing up!

I have done that a couple of times, standing at the check point hoping on 1 leg trying to get a boot off, (only an ankle 1 but it was tight). I generally now make sure i wear easily removed boots for flying.

[vector]

Sad to say, harassment. like a lot of things is in the eye of the beholder.

At a previous employer, there was a woman who could be quite "crass".  Once I heard she was out sick and upon seeing her at work inquired as to how she was doing.  She replied something to the effect of, "... I'm back up on my hands and knees...".  I was stunned and didn't say anything.

Another time I was talking to the supervisor of the switchboard (yes, it was that LONG time ago) for a then Fortune 500 company.  The supervisor was female as was just about all of the employees.  Her supervisor, a male, happened to pass by and somehow joined the conversation during which he made the comment, ".. that's my hen house..." .  I was shocked!  After he went on his way, the supervisor remarked on how companies lose sexual harassment lawsuits!

[Bubba136]

What some do or say to be humorous, others see as a source of income. Being harassed or offended is a profession.  But, if you’re a man wearing heels or dresses in public, you should expect to get a certain amount and be prepared to handle it without offense.  

[Shyheels]

We do live in a world - or an era - where outrage is a profession, indeed a way of life for some people. One need only to look at the news to read of “Twitter storms” about something somesaid or thought, and demands for this or that to be banned. 

[Bubba136]

The really gigantic problem with the modern democratized human these days is that in addition to an anus, every last one of them has the ability to express an opinion on any subjects that strike their interest.  Some of which are pure material that is excreted from the anus.  And, when the quality of these options are brought to their attention, the individuals professing these opinions become irritate, discourteous and, on some occasions, physically confrontational.

[subtle]

Three complements like that would even make me uncomfortable. I would say if you’d only made one of those comments you’d wouldn’t have came across the way you did.