Questions out of curiosity

[blacksmith25]

Hello everyone, I had a question out of curiosity, Why do some of us look for acceptance from society? I mean in my opinion people should do what they please because they want to not because they want to be accepted and maybe I am coming off in a asshole manner and i am sorry for that, but im just curious as to why we feel like we need acceptance to do what we love? I know everyone here has once thought or sought out for it because we dont want people to judge us in a negative manner, but for the ones who private heel in their homes aren't they already judging the society that they will give negative feed back? For example in the other thread where the guy was seeing if the ebay pro wrestler would accept men wearing heels even though he already made a judgement on her that she wouldnt like it. Even though he was right about it, he was still judging her also. For those that decide to judge us how come they dont judge the guys that wear their pants sagging to their knees? That was discovered in jail for easy access for the guys having sex there, would they be considered weird or gay? No right? Or what about the girls that dress up like guys and they have their pants sagging would they look at them twice? I dont think so. but the folks that do those things never sought out for acceptance, so why should we? Im just curious to hear your answers : )

[Cl0setheels]

You've got some valid points there. But i think they 'why' is very complicated and is different for everyone. I think this thread has potential and i hope it's not going to evolve into a fight so i'll answer seriously. Why do we want to be accepted by society? Well, I guess everyone wants to comfortable with what they do. And for some people this comes natural and they just go their way. Others have to feel accepted and understood. They need this to feel normal. And (here comes the judging the mass ) in a way society can be very harsh in things that are different. Allthough you are right that this is pre-judgemental. I don't say this is true for everyone and as this is a complex question, it's what i think and not the absolute truth. It is how i see things and how i experience things myself. It probably also has to do with insecurity, allthough i can only speak for myself. I am an insecure person and my love for heels is part of what made it worse. I've had some form of 'therapy' (not cause of my heels thing, and i won't bother you with the details) and we talked about a lot but even then i couldn't get to bringing up my love for high heels. I think i was (and somehow still are) ashamed of it. I came very close to it a lot of times but never said it out loud. Why? Because it makes me feel different from others and it's not as society expects from men. This help didn't change the things that i thought where 'wrong' with me, but made me realise them, accept them or help me find a way to deal with them. This made me more honest about myself to myself which resulted in more acceptance of my high heels thing. Things changed a lot more when a female friend of mine kept picking my mind until she knew my secret. And she said to me she was dissapointed..... dissapointed because it wasn't something more shocking. She's different and that makes her great. We talked about it a lot and that really helped me. A short while before i told her about my love vor high heels she told me she had bought some red pumps. When she showed me a picture it where the exact same pumps i ordered that same day. We had quite a laugh about this afterwards and she said i could wear them together with her when we would meet if i would wear them proud. They now are reffered to as "our DM's" (they are made by Docter Martens). After she knew i also let two other female friends into my secret. And they all reacted positive. One even lets me wear heels at ther house and goes shopping with me. The others wouldn't mind either probably but it never came to it. Finding sites like this was also very helpful. Knowing there are more people like me. The last year has changed a lot and i went from being very secret about it and no-one knowing about it to having the guts to shop for heels by myself. I am currently at the point that i'd like to 'come out'. I am taking more risks, don't hide my shoes as well as i did before when my parents or friends visit. But to answer your 'why the approval': For me it is to feel more self conscious about wearing heels. Not having to feel different or weird or insecure. Just being myself and feeling comfortable while wearing what i love. And for the bigger part, if not all, i have to make that happen myself.

[Trolldeg]

For those that decide to judge us how come they dont judge the guys that wear their pants sagging to their knees? That was discovered in jail for easy access for the guys having sex there, would they be considered weird or gay?

what's your source on this?

[blacksmith25]

you have a good point and i do aprreciate your answer and to answer your question trolldeg i got my source from family that have been in jail for years and some of the older guys that have been there i know filled me in on it.

[Dr. Shoe]

OK.... I'll mention that the next time I see a Hackney Yoof like that! lol I think the main reason why we want "acceptance" is so we can heel unhindered... I mean a lot of people don't realise is that we can already. We may get a few stares and double takes but heeling isn't illegal.

[blacksmith25]

lol ok. yeah it isn't illegal your right and that is all they do (double take and looks) but why is it so hard for some of us to gain the courage to come out into public wearing heels, i was trying to say before the people with sagging pants and the girls dressing like guys they just did it and whenever i seen it noone even cared no looks no nothing so if we go out with that confidence like i dont care what you think kind of sense would that make the environment more comfortable and less looks would occur?

[wearheels]

Good subject. If you think about it, every member here is looking for acceptance whether they publicly heel, still hide it or are in between like me. I know I feel somehow better since joining hhplace, knowing that my deep, unending enjoyment of wearing "women's" high heeled shoes and boots is shared by others. It does feel good to not be alone. And anyone that thinks this love of heels by men means we must be gay or have a screw loose is just ignorant and their opinion doesn't matter. I totally agree that we should just be ourselves and wear what we want. If you don't act like yourself, who are you, a clone, a follower, a product of how you view society? I know that I don't need everyones approval, but it is nice to come here with like minded individuals and not be judged by what I have on my feet(5 inch black pumps), or that my legs are shaved, or that my toe nails are painted(blue)

[Thighboots2]

Indeed this is a good thread. It has long been my opinion that it isn't just about the height of the heel, rather it is the style of the whole shoe that is the nub of the issue. Menswear has generally tended toward the functional. Delicate materials and designs are not used. Men's psycology is mostly aimed at the doing so clothing in general follows the needs because of practicality. Now the last thing a nice 4" stiletto heeled shoe/boot, for a man, is practical. Lets face it, its hardly practical for a woman in her geneneral daily activities. This is why is it that women generally are not seen wearing 4" stilettos all the time. They are practical people too and they will choose the right footwear for the time of day and activity. Women do love to wear heels, but the style of the heel varies. Just look around when you go to the mall and see that where heels are worn, they will be more practical/utilitarian in type, either block, cuban or wedge, to give the wearer the stability and ambulatory ease. Now if this isn't a big clue for men, then I don't know what is. It seems to me that we are rather hung up on stiletto heels. Sex, fetish and Stilettos are inseperably linked. In recent times men have become tarnished by the fetish activities of a very few - just look at the hoops you have to go through if you work with children these days. So wearing the item that is so closely linked with sex and fetish is really asking for trouble, if you are a man. Now there is a time and place for everything including men wearing stilettos. Get the time and place right and you'll have a great time. But during the normal day doing your normal things, then if you wish to wear heels (as I choose to do) then be conservative in both heel style, and to a lesser extend, height. Simon.

[wood&metal]

And anyone that thinks this love of heels by men means we must be gay or have a screw loose is just ignorant and their opinion doesn't matter.

I'd say my only thing about acceptance is that I do not want to be misjudged.. The quote about sums that up...

[ShockQueen]

I think that people look for acceptance to give a sense of validation that they are not being some sort of deviant when they go out. It's the stares that tend to undermine people so much of the time. It all comes down to one thing....... Confidence! If you KNOW that you look good in your outfit, then it will show. If you look sheepish, of COURSE it's going to draw stares, as you look afraid to be seen. I've been amazed at how well women take to guys wearing not just heels, but other parts of what has been dogmatically been called "women's" stuff. My own $.02.....I think women are tired of seeing the same old stuff on guys and actually like seeing something new! Take the time, put together a really nice outfit, and look in the mirror. If you like what you see, then you're good to go! Hold your head high and venture forth!

[Bubba136]

I've often thought that "acceptance" isn't quite the right word for what most men that crossdress or wear their heels in public are looking for. Rather, I would say that what we're really after is relief from fear of being ridiculed or ashamed, and in the eyes of the general public, the thought of being "misfits," perverted or weird because we choose to wear women's shoes or garments. Just a "live and let live" kind of an attitude.....exactly the same as is given s to men wearing ear rings or necklaces these days. While I can't come up with a more appropriate word (at the moment), it's really so much more than that (acceptance)....almost like we're really searching for some sort of "invisibility" that will make people not look at our feet and or notice our choice of footwear/dress. Personal attitude is the most important aspect. While I ordinarily chose to wear less conspicuous/obvious footwear, occasionally I will still get questioning looks from individuals recognizing the shape of the heel, toe or the heel height. that my shoes really were made for women. My boots are cases in point. (Wedge, block and semi-stiletto heels). I guess my main point is that we all are seeking something that will make the "deviating from the ordinary" aspect disappear from general public psychic.

[Histiletto]

When something rubs you the wrong way, what is uaually your reaction? You certainly wouldn't embrace it with out, at least, some mind evaluative reconciliation to the circumstances. If it's a known social or cultural idiosyncrasy, may be your conscience will let you feel at ease for having such thoughts. Then you might go on to display some degree of +/- notice and continue about your business. Since the activity of men wearing high heels, blocks and/or stilettos, hasn't become common public occurances, yet, we have to expect some reactions upon the first or unexpected encounters. Decide where you stand and be prepared to deal with these reactions to help determine the outcome. What ever you prepare, leave them with the idea that you are happy that they cared enough to bring their concerns to your attention and that your wearing heels has helped to open their eyes that men do have these choices also. You can show them the confident and secure attitude that you have in knowing who you are. You chose from your options of footwear, just as you have chosen all of the other things you use to attire with.

[Steve63130]

Bubba, Perhaps the word you're looking for may be "tolerance." Acceptance connotes an embracing or at least a willingly positive attitude. Tolerance is more neutral and connotes that a person can put up with (in this case) a fashion choice, but has no strong feelings he/she is willing to express either for it or against it. Steve

[Bubba136]

Bubba,

Perhaps the word you're looking for may be "tolerance." Acceptance connotes an embracing or at least a willingly positive attitude. Tolerance is more neutral and connotes that a person can put up with (in this case) a fashion choice, but has no strong feelings he/she is willing to express either for it or against it.

Steve

Hmmmm!

tolerance:

1. the capacity to bear something unpleasant, painful, or difficult (had always had a high tolerance to pain}

Synonyms: endurance, stamina, toleration

Related Word: fortitude, grit, guts; strength, vigor; long-suffering, patience, sufferance; steadfastness, steadiness; opposition, resistance

Antonyms: intolerance

2.

Synonyms: see FORBEARANCE 2

Related Word: liberality liberalness, open-mindedness, permissiveness

Contrasted Words: narrow-mindedness' prejudice; dogmatism; bigotry

Antonyms: intolerance

However, the definition that I think fits best is:

tol-er-ance

1: the act or practice of tolerating; esp:

sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from one's own

2: the allowable deviation from a standard (as of size)

tolerance will do until something else comes along......

Thanks Steve.....

[JeffB]

Well, I don't intentionally seek acceptance from others when I wear heels and/or skirts in public. If people want to compliment me on what I wear, great! If people choose to ignore me, that's okay too. I don't worry about it one way or another.

[Thighbootguy]

SQ has boiled down many many post on "going out with confidence" to its essence. Well done, and its excellent advise.

[Puffer]

Some very interesting comment and sound advice above. It is difficult to disagree with any of it - except of course on purely emotive grounds (e.g. wearing stilettos simply because one wants to, regardless of suitability, fashion sense, public ridicule, etc.)

I've often thought that "acceptance" isn't quite the right word for what most men that crossdress or wear their heels in public are looking for. ... I guess my main point is that we all are seeking something that will make the "deviating from the ordinary" aspect disappear from general public psychic.

Perhaps the word you're looking for may be "tolerance." Acceptance connotes an embracing or at least a willingly positive attitude. Tolerance is more neutral and connotes that a person can put up with (in this case) a fashion choice, but has no strong feelings he/she is willing to express either for it or against it.

... tolerance will do until something else comes along......

When I read Bubba's first thoughtful note, 'tolerance' was the first word that came into my mind too, and is a fairly obvious one. But, upon reflection, it carries a 'grudging' connotation which is surely not what we are seeking? ('I dislike very cold weather but I can tolerate it when I have to.') In a way, it is even more negative than 'acceptance', which seems more final than just putting up with something that we would really prefer not to be happening.

We can probably not expect wholehearted 'acceptance' of male heel wearing by the public at large - at least in the foreseeable future - but maybe we can gain (in addition to acceptance and positive tolerance) greater understanding, respect, support etc. (Now, I don't put any of those bold words forward as a better one to use, but I do suggest that they help to paint the bigger picture.)

Maybe we can all think on this and perhaps there is a better word buried somewhere in the thesaurus - but my guess is that no single word will convey everything.

[Guest]

well puffer, I for one do not need public approval or disapproval on what I choose to wear on my feet as far what kind of boots[/i then if anyone thinks that they dont like it (for whatever reason they conjure up) then too damn bad I say!!!

[Puffer]

You don't need to convince me, demonia!

But you've used another good word - 'approval'. Isn't that what most heelers (yourself aside) are really hoping for, as distinct from mere acceptance, tolerance, understanding etc ... ?

[blacksmith25]

thank you all for your posts i really appreciate your opinions =]

[CassieJ]

I think this discussion is missing a key ingredient. While I wear men's style inspired high heels, both block and stiletto heels higher than 4", under long pants, in public all the time, I really don't care anymore about what other people think. Most don't even notice and those that do will not say anything. My only fear are groups of neanderthals like drunk macho men coming out of a bar. Groups tend to fuel behavior that the same individuals wouldn't consider. The missing ingredient is the job. Our livelihoods could be seriously affected if the wrong person detects your heeling. Most of us rely on an employer to pay for our lifestyles. While I have no issue dealing with the general public, my boss or coworkers could cause me major issues with my job. This is not something I am comfortable playing with. True tolerance, acceptance or just apathy about our heels may remove this fear. Just as early male adopters of earrings had numerous problems with employers, we are still early in this movement. In 15-20 years, it may be where earrings are today. Who knows? So, it is not any of what has been discussed above that concerns me. If I was not worried about my job, I would do whatever I want and never worry about it. As it is now, I do whatever I want when there is little to no chance it will impact my employment.

[Bubba136]

The missing ingredient is the job. Our livelihoods could be seriously,,,,, If I was not worried about my job, I would do whatever I want and never worry about it. As it is now, I do whatever I want when there is little to no chance it will impact my employment.

In these days and times there are a lot of new and different statutes protecting individuals that exist in alternative lifestyle categories. Most of them include discrimination protection against sexual orientation...including transsexuals and cross dressers....which would, I would guess, include men wearing high heels. Then again, attitudes are slowly changing and. coupled with the increased protection for these people. any large employer would probably think twice about taking any action against such individuals. Unless, of course, they determine that such people are really a demonstrable threat to the entire business' or exceedingly harmful to the company's reputation.

After saying all this, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[CassieJ]

I would agree but promotions and such can be affected without the real reason being disclosed. My last employer where I worked for over 20 years couldn't have done anything due to their own policies but I probably wouldn't have gotten to where I was if I had worn heels at work. Some real jerks we my boss at times and they were not good with 'different.' Where I work now has some interesting people working around but not in my current department. As I get more comfortable at the new job I might experiment. I did wear heels into the office one night but it was really late and I was the only one there.

[Puffer]

I would agree but promotions and such can be affected without the real reason being disclosed. ....

I agree totally, CassieJ - that is the reality of the employment situation, especially in the slightly-less-litigious UK. Having been involved indirectly with employment-related disputes over the years, it is pretty clear that an employer will find a way to discriminate subtly against anyone who does not 'fit' - whether on grounds of age, sexual preference, disability, potential for pregnancy, hair colour or heel height ... No legislation can totally eliminate personal prejudice, however subconscious (and why should it?).

[CassieJ]

If the economy ever recovers here my wife and I own the rights to a retail business for our area. The type of business would be perfect to allow me to wear heels discreetly under jeans without any issues. Being the boss, I wouldn't have to worry about job issues and the type of customers we would get would not care or actually love it. NO, it is not an adult business either.

[Thighmax]

I believe that acceptance is not only related to the job. Some of our societies or most of them (depending on the place we all live in) are very chauvinist. Therefore, heel wearing might be seen as been a homosexual or being different. In most cases you will be left out of social circles (which I couln't care less) but in other cases we can be treated in less than approved ways. Believe me, if I knew that even if people looked and talked that was going to be the extent of it I would use my high heeled boots everywhere. But consequences can be very drastic in some places.

[CPB]

I work in the construction industry, so it would be totally impractical for me to wear high heels on site. And, unless they one day make high heels with steel toe caps, it's also illegal. Looking at the society apsect I don't really care what society would think of me if I wore high heels. I also feel pretty much the same about my family, except for my wife & 2 boys. If the world at large doesn't have a problem with me heeling - great, if they do - that's their problem. My Mom came to visit my sister & we went over the one afternoon. I had clear nail polish on, which she happened to see. She asked if I had painted my toe & why. My answer was yes & because I wanted to. I'm sure if I'd told her I was have a sex change she would have been less shocked. But that's her problem, if she has questions or wants to talk she knows where I am. Maybe it's a bit callous, but I feel that my wife & boys are the only people that mustn't be embarresed by my actions. The only people who have to accept what I do is my wife & 2 boys. Unfortunately my wife comes from a fairly conservative Afrikaans background, & the same with my boys' friends. My wife doesn't really like the high heel thing, but as long as I do it at home & when the boys are asleep it's ok.

[Bubba136]

CBP! So much for your "in your face independent streak." While the attitude you project is one of "I could care less what others think," when it comes to your immediate family (wife and children) it all come unraveled. So, do you wear your high heels when out and about by yourself? Or, are you projecting an attitude that would prevail if and when you begin wearing your high heels outside in public?

[CPB]

Bubba136 I hear what you say & my attitude is contradictory, but I love my wife & family more than my high heels. My wife doesn't like me wearing high heels, but she has accepted that it's part of me and as long as I keep it private she doesn't have a problem. I have no desire to loose my wife & family because I want to wear high heels in public.