Men's level of heeling

[Bubba136]

At home in private. Occasionally at the office when I am by myself. Too chicken to go public because that will be the time when I run into someone my wife or I know and this would cause the Mrs. to become very angry...

Is your wife even aware that you wear high heels?

[GML]

in public, but at night, maybe at the gas station with long jeans. All over the house when wife is gone.

So do I.

[tiffany]

Greetings,

I am a neutral as well, wear boots whenever I can, 2" to 4" under jeans, low heels over jeans with hose, but have not gone full blown en femme for a few years now. Where I do it is also changes what I wear. I like Europe and big cities for anominous heeling, less revealing for smaller centers.

I, as others hope for the change before we are too old!

Mtnsofheels

This reminds me of an unrelated thing I heard once on why crossdressing was not yet accepted. The person at the time said something like gays and lesbians went to great lengths to earn their equality and rights but crossdressers on the other hand were all hiding in the closet.

Now I was thinking this might as well apply to us. If we want men wearing heels to be accepted I guess we have to come forward and "fight" for it.

Although it should probably start with me since I voted privately

[Thighboots2]

Tiffany, Hitting the nail on the head there. You all gotta stop moaning about acceptance and wear your heels, whatever type you prefer, and that is the ONLY way to change acceptance. The more that do, the more will do likewise. Actions speak louder than words. I wear heels every day, maybe not everyones choice around here seeing as they are 3" cuban heels, but then I am enjoying the elevated feeling you everyone else is not. Plus I don't get anything other than positive comments wearing cuban heels as they look right on a man. Simon.

[Phil24]

I'm neutral on this one. I have concluded that even the smallest heels can be seen. I started wearing 1.5" heels under trousers. Looking down at my feet I was sure that they were inconspicuous but soon realised by the comments and looks from passers by that I was wrong. I am up to 3" block heels for around town or a smaller stiletto. Those that will notice will and the rest won't. I once walked through Oxford services in heels and leggings. I walked past a couple and the guy didn't notice until his girlfriend pointed me out. I do avoid being seen by those I don't want to be seen by. I just stand close to a wall or something.

[ClosetHeels]

My heeling level stays at home, in private. Occasionally, I've driven my car out to get fast food and had heels on, and sometimes have driven to work in them, and changed in the car. But for the most part, my heels stay at home.

[Walkonit]

I voted neutral. Until a few weeks ago I was definitely mixed between privacy and discretion. This website helped me to go "neutral". It was great ! I had read so many of you saying that people in public really don't notice. It was really difficult to believe that, but I decided to try it out and guess what it really is true. I had been outdoors many times in deserted places, but this time I took out my 4" pointy toe stiletto boots under jeans and went shopping in a supermarket. It was so much fun I just didn't want to leave. Reactions from people...mostly nothing ....a few stares but no comments. I also wondered how many "heelers" there are out there. I expect there has been a bunch of threads on this already , but I can't find them. Looking at the poll results it shows a "classic" statistical pyramid from full fem to privacy (with the exception of Discreet). After that there are less votes , probably because not many "fantasy" and "admire" voters have found the website, registered and voted. Statistics says admire numbers should be up over 10,000. I wonder if there are members out there who know how many "mens size" shoes are bought from shops and internet sites to get a better idea of numbers. There are enough sites out there selling large sizes , which indicates to me that the numbers of male high heel wearers must be enormous.

[yozz]

I also wondered how many "heelers" there are out there. I expect there has been a bunch of threads on this already , but I can't find them. Looking at the poll results it shows a "classic" statistical pyramid from full fem to privacy (with the exception of Discreet). After that there are less votes , probably because not many "fantasy" and "admire" voters have found the website, registered and voted. Statistics says admire numbers should be up over 10,000. I wonder if there are members out there who know how many "mens size" shoes are bought from shops and internet sites to get a better idea of numbers. There are enough sites out there selling large sizes , which indicates to me that the numbers of male high heel wearers must be enormous.

It is extremely difficult to get estimates of this, leave alone reliable numbers.

I have seen a `study' w.r.t. men wearing female underware or panties or whatever.

This involved:

a: a vote among people who admit wearing this which percentage of the time they

do this.

b: some numbers from hospital emergency rooms.

Combining these numbers gets something like 5% wearing regularly some female

items of clothing.

Unfortunately one cannot do the same with shoes. The numbers are much smaller.

And I never read about men ending up in the emergency room while wearing heels.

It is too easy to at least take off the shoes.

Asking men in the street how often they wear high heels and how often they do

this in public, will definitely not get you honest answers.

Asking here in hhplace will not get you an unbiased sample.

You would have to invent something else that is indirect.

In the past we have had reports that salespeople say that a sizable percentage

of very large sizes of shoes goes to men. But what percentage of shoes is sold

in very large sizes? Maybe someone can comment?

Then, most men who buy high heels will only use them for bedroom play. Or so

it is assumed. This brings up another point. What number(s) do you want to know?

a: men owning high heel shoes.

b: men wearing them around the house.

c: with or without the knowledge of their partner?

d: men wearing them in public.

The last number is extremely small. The thread on sightings of other men in high

heels is not very crowded. The number there may well be 1:100000. Try to estimate

how many there would be in your city for you to see one. Did you see one?

a: may be large and maybe even up to one in ten (just a blind (over?)estimate).

Maybe some numbers can be obtained by asking partners anonymously. But

hhplace doesn't seem to be the place for an unbiased sampling because

a number of the girls here are here because their husband/friend introduced them

to the place. You would need another forum where you have reason to believe

that you will get honest answers.

Sorry that this is a bit long. It is a complicated subject.

Y.

[Walkonit]

Thanks for your very interesting reply Yozz. I think it would be interesting to get a better idea of numbers for any of the catagories you mention (or named in the poll). I believe the numbers in all catagories could be higher than we assume. Statistics tells us it follows a pyramid, thats to say for every full crossdresser there are a number of men who would wear heesl in public, a much higher number who own heels and wear them privately and an much higher number who would like to try heels but havn't come so far. This pyramid distribution is similar to other systems for example how rich people are, very few billionaires, lots of millionaires then the rest of us :-). My own observations are that its extremely rare to see a heeler in public and I can only recall 2 or 3 times in my life (maybe because i'm like the rest of the world and don't notice others, in the same way as people don't seem to notice me when I heel in public). ** by the way my most memorable heeling observation was in the Hippodrome in 1987 when I saw a crossdresser in full pary dress and amazing high black patent stilettos. He must have been close to 7 foot tall in his heels and really stood out from the crowd. I was too shy to talk to him back then. Anybody know this guy ? ** I also found a pair of size 9 silver stilettos placed on top of a petrol pump in a petrol station forecourt one time. I tried them on and they fit me, hung around a while to see if anybody would come back to claim them, but the place was deserted, so in the end decided it was a gift to good to be true. I got a lot of use out of those heels, but it was before I went out in public. Therefore I agree that 1 in 100,000 for public heelers seems to be roughly correct. As for private heelers, numbers of sales from shops would give some ideas. As for numbers of men interested to try heels, it seems the numbers could be very high based on the following: - Guys seem always to be a bit too ready to "joke about heels" when the topic comes up and it seems to come up too often (not initiated by me). - In addition the negative reactions by some men perhaps indicate that they are actually interested themselves. A bit like young boys teasing the attractive girls they secretly admire because they are not mature enough to express themsleves otherwise. - The excessive compliments to girls on their high heels. - The hits on high heel websites numbering in the millions. - The number of websites selling large sizes. If more of these guys were encouraged to raise their interest to the next level the snowball may start to grow and acceptance raised. So keep up the good work on this website. Not sure if it would be quite so much fun if the taboo was reduced though.

[yozz]

I agree with most of the things you say, but I doubt that there is such a nice pyramid. There are quite a few people who would love to run around in heels or any other item considered a cross-item and can only get themselves so far by going the whole way, i.e. fully cross dressed, because that gives both a form of anonymity and puts them in a socially known category. Hence I think there are more full cross dressers than men willing to go outside in heels. Some of those are not cross dressers by nature, but only by perceived necessity. You can find a number of those in the various threads here. Y.

[Thighboots2]

Yozz, That sums it up nicely, certainly for me anyway. If I want to wear a nice pair of stiletto heels, then I go en-femme precisely because in CD mode, I fit into the place society expects. Otherwise for heels and bob mode, its 3" cubans or blocks to which no one seems to notice at all. If they do, I don't care as my mind sees 3" block or cuban heels as very masculine, and it is a mind thing. Simon.

[Walkonit]

Interesting what you say. I've only recently started going in public (malls and supermarkets mainly), but cross dressing is not interesting to me (at least not yet). Perhaps partly because I know I don't have the body for it (too tall and too wide shoulders). Going out in public 4" + quite agressively styled stiletto boots under jeans (but still quite obvious) & leather jacket gives me a real thrill. It's the feeling of the heels when I walk and the exhibitionist in me that gives me the kick.

[yozz]

If you have no real problems going out in heels while for the rest dressed as a man, there is no need for the cross dressing. It is just that some people so badly want to go out in heels, but at the same time are so strongly conditioned against what others would say or think that the easiest socially acceptable way is to fully cross dress, even when they would otherwise not be cross dressing or at least not in public. This is the power of our social programming. It is also not really a simple development from one item of crossing the line, to several to all the way. Most of the members here stop somewhere. They may just wear heels and never anything more, or they may add hose and a skirt, but that is it. In forums about men in skirts you may see something similar: men just interested in wearing a skirt, but with very (often ugly) male shoes. It just looks like everybody has some favorite pieces of clothing and that for quite a few those pieces are not inside the current standards. Some are trying to do something about that in more or less discrete ways. Y.

[skirtedvik]

Crossdressing is gender biased term and discriminatory towards men.A male out of the limitted visual box is either a freestyler or a female impersonator with the fake boobs and so on. I wear "female" tops,skirts,heels and etc. but as a guy and consider myself a freestyler.All women are freestylers in the so called Western civilization - do not forget that.

[Histiletto]

Label it what you will. It is still a matter of personal choice verses what society (everyone else) wants. There will never be any one better who knows what a person desires than that person. Others may have an effect on an individual's judgement or final decision, but choosing for one's self is an agency we have to defend and change the prevailing social attitude of somebody else dictating the ideals or stereotypes everyone has to conform in order to be accepted. Until we take back our rights of personal agency from society telling us what we should like and image to declaring our freedom to choose using our own set of feelings, desires, and tastes; we will remain enslaved to those who couldn't care less about any one else, but for their own egos.

[Shafted]

I picked neutral, although I actually fall in between neutral and show-off.

[purrkitty408]

I said discrete, though I would prefer to be neutral. I don't really want to show off, or be full-femme.

[kikepa]

Crossdressing is gender biased term and discriminatory towards men.A male out of the limitted visual box is either a freestyler or a female impersonator with the fake boobs and so on. I wear "female" tops,skirts,heels and etc. but as a guy and consider myself a freestyler.All women are freestylers in the so called Western civilization - do not forget that.

I don't know why I prefer wearing predominantly "women's" clothes. It's not because I'm trying to appear as a woman. I simply prefer the relative comfort of a skirt or dress over constrictive pants, and even at that, in the privacy of my own home, I wear predominantly masculine-looking clothes i.e. skirts which look more like a kilt. Dresses, not so much, but the only three I wear are simple cotton or denim constructions. Centuries ago, they'd have fit in quite well given the clothing of those days.

Similarly, I prefer heels to flats, although heels are somewhat less functional or comfortable than any of my guy shoes. The only reason I wear jeans, shirts, and guy shoes while beyond the confines of my apartment is because I don't like the backlash from society. If that weren't an issue, I'd be out in heels and a skirt or a dress all the time.

[SleekHeels]

Interesting what you say. I've only recently started going in public (malls and supermarkets mainly), but cross dressing is not interesting to me (at least not yet).

I always felt I'd have to increasingly perfect a feminine image to be accepted wearing heels in public, and that would be pretty much unattainable. It's only on this forum that I realised how many guys are wanting to wear heels as guys, and that opened up a whole new expressive outlet. For me that feels like more of an evolution rather than a retreat. Like Yozz said:

It is just that some people so badly want to go out in heels, but at the same time are so strongly conditioned against what others would say or think that the easiest socially acceptable way is to fully cross dress, even when they would otherwise not be cross dressing or at least not in public. This is the power of our social programming.

I think that's right to the core of it for me. Wearing heels as a guy challenges that social programming, but the heels are just symbolic for challenging all the other more significant prejudices and discrimination that come from that social programming too.

I guess it's all relative: for some it's wearing heels with a male appearance that's a compromise, for others it's wearing heels with a female appearance. Either way it's just great that there are high heels

[roniheels]

(quote: SleekHeels) I think that's right to the core of it for me. Wearing heels as a guy challenges that social programming, but the heels are just symbolic for challenging all the other more significant prejudices and discrimination that come from that social programming too.

I think we are all in agreement with this. We all have discussed the "prejudice" of associating a man wearing high heels with being gay. Once again, as more of us wear high heels proudly in public, the more we will challenge the social programing. As they say, strength in numbers.

[JeffB]

I think we are all in agreement with this. We all have discussed the "prejudice" of associating a man wearing high heels with being gay. Once again, as more of us wear high heels proudly in public, the more we will challenge the social programing. As they say, strength in numbers.

I wish I knew where that narrowminded belief that shoes was attached to sexual preference came from, because it's pure nonsense. Are women who wear combat boots looked upon as being bull dykes? Of course not! I mean, really! I know this is a pipe dream, but I wish society would grow up and ditch the notion that shoes connotated such a foolish notion. But, like roniheels said, the only way that notion can be dispelled is by being out there on the front lines, showing the world that what we do isn't weird, simply unique.

[Histiletto]

Guys wearing heels is just as natural as gals wearing heels. They are another styling of footwear that really has no preference on its own, because they are items or things. When these things are placed on the market, they can be chosen by a consumer (be they man or woman). Does any body know or can find out what the percentages are for men purchasing heels these days?

[SleekHeels]

For sure I meant prejudice/preconceptions of guys wearing heels, but I also meant wider prejudice from our social conditioning too. I think accepting my desire/enjoyment of wearing heels has opened my eyes to prejudices I might have had and made me a better person for it. I think this is important because many of us have had phases of feeling "dysfunctional" about wearing heels but it's actually prejudice which is dysfunctional even though society sometimes encourages it. For me that was the key from moving from the poll option "PRIVACY" where I was before (and has the most votes), towards DISCRETION, NEUTRAL and now maybe even a little SHOW OFF creeping in.

[Alexis Hill]

I picked "DISCRETION" but probably somewhere inbetween that and "PRIVACY". I have worn 3 inch heels on walks a few nights, but my jeans length nearly covers most of the heel.

[legs777777]

I picked private, still at the stage of only for me at the minute. Lack the courage to go out in full view yet.

[saudade]

So I'm not sure where exactly I'd fit on this scale. I do wear heels, sometimes even platform stiletto's, but mostly under boot/flare cut long leg jeans. Mainly because I've really loved the whole gooberly long leg look that they evoke. That and I really don't care to show off the heels in general. Not that I care if people notice, just that i love my 38"ish inseam jeans that make me look like some sort of high elf or something. I've always liked the stiletto pumps/whatnot under long jeans look. So I'm commandeering it for myself. Where would that put me?

[Steve63130]

It would put you right up front as a pioneer in the movement to make men wearing heels mainstream. Bravo! Steve

[Charlie]

For sure I meant prejudice/preconceptions of guys wearing heels, but I also meant wider prejudice from our social conditioning too. I think accepting my desire/enjoyment of wearing heels has opened my eyes to prejudices I might have had and made me a better person for it. I think this is important because many of us have had phases of feeling "dysfunctional" about wearing heels but it's actually prejudice which is dysfunctional even though society sometimes encourages it. For me that was the key from moving from the poll option "PRIVACY" where I was before (and has the most votes), towards DISCRETION, NEUTRAL and now maybe even a little SHOW OFF creeping in.

There is no doubt at all that by wearing high heeled footwear routinely in public for years now that I've become far more open-minded with regards to the various way others choose to express themselves.

Charlie

[leyland1]

Lately, I have been dressing more femininely, although I am not, nor do I ever wish to be gay, or to crossdress (no offence intended =D). I wear big scarves slung across my shoulders, and bold colours and have long straight hair which is uncommon for black men. And now with my 3 in cowboy boots, and the 4in heel bootsI am still waiting for (OMANO....) I intend to be more androgenous, and to lose weight, LOL.

[hhboots]

So I'm not sure where exactly I'd fit on this scale.

I do wear heels, sometimes even platform stiletto's, but mostly under boot/flare cut long leg jeans. Mainly because I've really loved the whole gooberly long leg look that they evoke. That and I really don't care to show off the heels in general. Not that I care if people notice, just that i love my 38"ish inseam jeans that make me look like some sort of high elf or something.

I've always liked the stiletto pumps/whatnot under long jeans look. So I'm commandeering it for myself.

Where would that put me?

Since it was nearly three years ago that I originally posted this thread/poll, I think I would now re-word some of the choices quite a bit differently to help fit more people, as you are not the only one to question where you would fit on the poll.

Based on your description, I personally would say you have a bit of discretion (by partially hiding the heels under the jeans), but mostly you are neutral, because you wear heels that would be pretty obvious to see otherwise.

I am pretty close to what you described myself, I wear long bootcut jeans over my heels, except I usually wear slightly thicker heels (1" - 1.5" in diameter) in public, mainly because I am about 30 pounds overweight and I think stilettos look far better on slender people (men and women).