Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[Gudulitooo]

9 hours ago, kneehighs said:

From The Business of Fashion:

"Indeed, many millennials view the traditional luxury brand playbook — with its glossy advertising, glitzy flagships and seasonal runway shows — as a tired and inauthentic marketing formula, tied to old-fashioned ideas of social hierarchy and extravagance. Instead, it’s edgier streetwear brands like Supreme and Gosha Rubchinskiy with their carefully cultivated ‘cred’ and innovative business models, rooted in cool but accessibly priced product and tightly controlled releases, that have captured their attention."

"This article is exclusive to BoF Professional  members "

 

Wow you are a Professional member there ?

 

9 hours ago, kneehighs said:

"high-end streetwear helped boost global sales of luxury personal goods by 5 percent in 2017 to an estimated €263 billion ($309 billion), according to a study released by consultancy Bain & Company. What's more, Generations Y and Z are already the main growth engine of the luxury goods market, driving 85 percent of luxury expansion last year. By 2025, they are expected to account for 45 percent of total luxury goods spending — but even this underestimates their influence."

While Gen X, Baby Boomers and Silent Generation members here may not appreciate the change since it doesn't manifest as style they approve of, my argument is that men in heels is no big deal for Gen Z and Millennials.  (been saying this for years)

X, Y, Z, what's next ?

AA, AB, AC are still available....

On 6/3/2018 at 6:47 PM, Heelster said:

I don't see this often, and only on the two coasts, and that does bother me a bit. Once you get away from any major population, what I do see is less interest in appearance by either side of the aisle unless they have too. Stores that would carry nicer styles etc.are disappearing at an alarming rate leaving retailers like Walmart to set the trends locally. There is a difference between Walmart stock depending on where you are at.

I had two wait for seating at a somewhat nicer chain restaurant recently. We watched what people were wearing. Jeans, t-shirts, tanks, sneakers, flip flops, a couple pairs of flats, basket ball shorts, leggings (of which she did not have the figure for by any means)  - - - The staff was the best dressed of all. 

 

Heelster,

Look at this picture

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bourg-la-reine.fr%2Fvar%2Fayaline%2Fstorage%2Fimages%2Faccueil%2Fgaleries-photos-et-videos%2Fbourg-la-reine-en-images%2Fmediatheque-francois-villon3%2F75807-1-fre-FR%2FMediatheque-Francois-Villon_photo_gallery_tres_large.jpg&sp=eee74e5a89ae539942a9bb27ef6f0b7a

This is a normal crowd next to where I live. (a suburb 20 km away from Paris). I suppose this is a saturday, because usually you don't see whole families.

On the picture you have the full range of men attires here : Suit (behind the tree)  / jeans+vest+derbies / skate shoes+jeans / skate shoes+cargo.

There are good chances that the day is a special event about the library (opening) with officials, otherwise there would not have been a guy in suit.

The picture is missing the leggings+stan smith+long top+perfecto combo very popular for younger women.

[kneehighs]

11 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I don't doubt for a second these generations are a big driving force behind the growth in sales of luxury goods. And I would accept that they are, in theory, more tolerant towards fashion outliers such as men who wear heels - but theory would seem to be as far as it goes there. They do not seem to be adopting the idea themselves. If they were manufacturers would be following this new direction in fashion and we would be seeing high heeled footwear in the men's sections of high street shops and we would be seeing a lot of men in heels. We do not. I've never encountered any.   

As you say, you've been saying this for years and while I accept there are cultural changes afoot (so to speak) it is not manifesting itself in a new wave of men in heels.  

Our viewpoints aren't mutually exclusive.  Millennials and Gen-Z don't need to be buying heels marketed for men in critical mass to make my point.  My point is that tolerance towards men in heels is most visible with Millennials and Gen Z.  They are more tolerant than Gen X, Baby Boomers, and Silent Generation. This tolerance is driven by social media.  Millennials and GenZ reject Old School hierarchy espoused by traditional Blue Chip media (Vogue, GQ etc).

6 hours ago, Gudulitooo said:

"This article is exclusive to BoF Professional  members "

 

Wow you are a Professional member there ?

 

X, Y, Z, what's next ?

AA, AB, AC are still available....

 

Heelster,

Look at this picture

https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english&rais=1&oiu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bourg-la-reine.fr%2Fvar%2Fayaline%2Fstorage%2Fimages%2Faccueil%2Fgaleries-photos-et-videos%2Fbourg-la-reine-en-images%2Fmediatheque-francois-villon3%2F75807-1-fre-FR%2FMediatheque-Francois-Villon_photo_gallery_tres_large.jpg&sp=eee74e5a89ae539942a9bb27ef6f0b7a

This is a normal crowd next to where I live. (a suburb 20 km away from Paris). I suppose this is a saturday, because usually you don't see whole families.

On the picture you have the full range of men attires here : Suit (behind the tree)  / jeans+vest+derbies / skate shoes+jeans / skate shoes+cargo.

There are good chances that the day is a special event about the library (opening) with officials, otherwise there would not have been a guy in suit.

The picture is missing the leggings+stan smith+long top+perfecto combo very popular for younger women.

I attached the article.  For the record, a professional membership is only $25/month.   Not a cheap status grab. 

How Streetwear Took Over Luxury | BoF Professional, This Week in Fashion | BoF.pdf

[Shyheels]

There is an equally compelling argument that social media is driving a lot of intolerance especially amongst the younger generations - witness the countless so-called Twitter storms over virtually nothing and the cult of outrage that seems to be pervading society these days. Freedom of expression has been significantly curtailed by this social media mob rule.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Shyheels

[kneehighs]

2 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

There is an equally compelling argument that social media is driving a lot of intolerance especially amongst the younger generations - witness the countless so-called Twitter storms over virtually nothing and the cult of outrage that seems to be pervading society these days. Freedom of expression has been significantly curtailed by this social media mob rule.

Prove how it negatively affects Millennial and GenZ tolerance towards men in heels.

[Shyheels]

I am talking about a broad culture of intolerance 

In many ways we live in a far less tolerant society now than we did in the 70s

Edited June 13, 2018 by Shyheels

[Heelster]

16 hours ago, Gudulitooo said:

This is a normal crowd next to where I live. (a suburb 20 km away from Paris). I suppose this is a saturday, because usually you don't see whole families.

On the picture you have the full range of men attires here : Suit (behind the tree)  / jeans+vest+derbies / skate shoes+jeans / skate shoes+cargo.

There are good chances that the day is a special event about the library (opening) with officials, otherwise there would not have been a guy in suit.

The picture is missing the leggings+stan smith+long top+perfecto combo very popular for younger women.

And I hate to say this, but everyone in that picture is far better dressed than what I see in my town - - - except a few who are at work,

[Gudulitooo]

6 hours ago, Heelster said:

And I hate to say this, but everyone in that picture is far better dressed than what I see in my town - - - except a few who are at work,

This morning I even walked in front of students waiting at the bus stop, the ones kneehighs calls "millenials", that were indeed wearing skinnys / legging (I tried not to stare), long fitted Tshirts  and stan smith shoes - same as the girls, but with less colors (white grey black - even mixed with stripes - do not count as colors to me !).

[Heelster]

1 hour ago, Gudulitooo said:

This morning I even walked in front of students waiting at the bus stop, the ones kneehighs calls "millenials", that were indeed wearing skinnys / legging (I tried not to stare), long fitted Tshirts  and stan smith shoes - same as the girls, but with less colors (white grey black - even mixed with stripes - do not count as colors to me !).

Again. your in a different world,

This is the biggest social event of the year.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Heelster

[Shyheels]

Fairly informal, I see....

[Gudulitooo]

depends on the venue of course. Much more fun also.

The main outdoor social events we have are weekly flea markets, and yearly carnival and funfairs.  As there are numerous small towns next to one another, one can attend several funfairs per year.

And weddings. And strike (this is France here, heh !).

 

 

18 hours ago, kneehighs said:

 

I attached the article.  For the record, a professional membership is only $25/month.   Not a cheap status grab.

Thanks.

What amused me was not your post or the articles themselves, but the way the website tells me that I am not a desirable reader !

"This article is exclusive to BoF Professional  members ". With underlined Professional  in italic...

Don't bother and be a member of any forum and website as you wish !

[Heelster]

11 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Fairly informal, I see....

Ya Think ?? The unfortunate aspect is that this is how they dress for almost anything except maybe wedding's and Funerals.

Wife still jokes about a woman that showed up at the grocery store in a bra - - It wasn't pretty in a multitude of ways.

Yep - - - that's why I call it the sticks.

[Rockpup]

http://www.connectingvets.com/articles/gay-high-heel-wearing-veteran-elected-mayor-texas

 

too bad they do not show him in heels.

[Shyheels]

4 hours ago, Rockpup said:

http://www.connectingvets.com/articles/gay-high-heel-wearing-veteran-elected-mayor-texas

 

too bad they do not show him in heels.

The link didn’t work for me. Perhaps the fact that they didn’t show him in his heels is a good thing, a subtle sign of acceptance. Not making a bigger deal out of it, but treating it more matter of factly. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Shyheels

[Cali]

It works fine for me.

[Gudulitooo]

5 hours ago, Shyheels said:

The link didn’t work for me. Perhaps the fact that they didn’t show him in his heels is a good thing, a subtle sign of acceptance. Not making a bigger deal out of it, but treating it more matter of factly. 

I suppose you have to use a proxy to access this one (so that the website thinks you are in the US).

Simply Google "gay mayor texas heels" and you will find the other accessible articles.

[Shyheels]

In terms of acceptance of straight men in heels, it is unfortunate that he is gay - it does go to perpetuate the myth that wearing heels is somehow 'gay'. 

[SF]

A shame how folks get “pidgeon holed.”  I have discussed (complained) about this elsewhere.....  see ya, sf

[Steve63130]

I, too, am sorry that high heels got connected with gay. It just reinforces the stereotype that wearing heels is only a gay thing. Oh, well. On the other foot, any news about a male celeb in heels is good PR. Too bad they didn't show a photo. I searched google and found photos of him, but no heels.

Steve

[Gudulitooo]

On 6/15/2018 at 11:41 AM, Shyheels said:

In terms of acceptance of straight men in heels, it is unfortunate that he is gay - it does go to perpetuate the myth that wearing heels is somehow 'gay'. 

Not at all. Journalists had a role though.

A meme of the new mayor reportedly surfaced on Facebook, showing the politician wearing heels and a tutu. --> look here https://intomore.com/impact/after-landslide-victory-del-rios-first-openly-gay-mayor-prepares-for-office

he triumphed in the election after choosing to march in high heels during last year’s veterans parade.

I didn’t use the LGBT flag in my campaign

And further, it could be said that he's got some balls to appear feminine, especially in his town, which is said to be under the threat of "rapists":

The current administration occupying the White House demonizes Latinos as “rapists” and paints border towns as dangerous places where “caravans” of immigrants are flooding into the United States from Mexico

https://intomore.com/impact/a-gay-man-in-heels-will-be-the-next-mayor-of-a-texas-border-town

[Shyheels]

Appearing feminine doesn't exactly help the average guy who wants to wear heels either 

And it doesn’t matter who initiates the gay descriptor, the fact that his being gay is linked to wearing heels is similarly not helpful

Edited June 18, 2018 by Shyheels

[SF]

Shyheels,  I agree, and will go one step further, I find linking high heels to being homosexual shameful....   Just my opinion.....

have fun all....   sf

[HHMafia]

4 hours ago, Gudulitooo said:

The current administration occupying the White House demonizes Latinos as “rapists”

I believe this is incorrect, current admin was talking about MS-13, yes they happen to be mostly a Latino gang, but the current admin has ne er to my knowledge said "all Latinos are rapist". Not trying to start a flame, just correcting a statment

 

[SF]

HHMafia.....   Sir, you are CORRECT !!!!  Thank you....

Best we leave politics to another website??.....   Have fun all....  sf

 

[Jkrenzer]

I would like to add as a guy, not gay, but in public often in very fem stilettos. I have no issue with the perception I must be gay. Reality, people quickly accept I'm not gay once we talk and many find and tell me it's a good look. Many current male fashion trends started as "gay" but have since become mainstream. Jewelry, man buns, etc. Heels likely will never mainstream but the stigma is rapidly disappearing, even in Trump's America. People who voted for him did not do it on social issues and definitely not on moral issues, he's an outsider to most. Disclaimer, I didn't vote for him but really struggled pulling the lever for her.

[Shyheels]

I have quite a few gay friends - none of them wear man buns, jewellery...or heels. 

[Cali]

But are your gay friends millennials?

I talked about man buns earlier and you didn't see it either. But it was very common among the Silicon Valley workforce/engineers and these are the one's spending their money and driving fashion.  Many of the gay men I know wear some jewelry, but maybe those I don't know are gay don't.

[HappyinHeels]

Sure there is some perpetuation  of stereotypes and I am sure journalists did have a role but then journalism is a different animal these days.

That also goes for voices with no dog in the hunt, I mean non-citizens and non-residents of the United States, blithely opining on our government. Though I speak the language and even trace much of my European lineage to France I would not use this thread to comment on the state of French politics. As it relates to immigration I recently completed (retired) from a 31 year career and am well qualified on the subject. From so-called "no-go zones" or areas where law enforcement avoids going to banning the wearing of certain Muslim headgear France has its own immigration ordeal as well as its own intolerances. The United States has averaged more than one million lawful admissions in new immigrants over the past two decades which is more than the whole of the EU. They keep coming to the USA no matter who is in the W.H. Inconvenient facts for those whose hobby is disliking us. HappyinHeels

[Shyheels]

2 hours ago, Cali said:

But are your gay friends millennials?

I talked about man buns earlier and you didn't see it either. But it was very common among the Silicon Valley workforce/engineers and these are the one's spending their money and driving fashion.  Many of the gay men I know wear some jewelry, but maybe those I don't know are gay don't.

I noticed you used the past tense (was) to describe the fashion for man buns, which is something we simply do not see over here, and I suspect not in the US either outside of some hipster types - some of whom no doubt drive fashion within their subset, but are hardly shaping trends for the community at large.

[HHMafia]

17 hours ago, SF said:

HHMafia.....   Sir, you are CORRECT !!!!  Thank you....

Best we leave politics to another website??.....   Have fun all....  sf

Couldn't agree more SF!! 

[Gudulitooo]

On 6/18/2018 at 1:22 PM, Shyheels said:

Appearing feminine doesn't exactly help the average guy who wants to wear heels either 

And it doesn’t matter who initiates the gay descriptor, the fact that his being gay is linked to wearing heels is similarly not helpful

Yes thank you for clarifying my opinion.

Indeed, the link is the problem, and my concern was that the guy does not seem to have created the link himself. Journalists did.

He could have simply been straight and paraded in high heels for the sake of carnival, humor, and a good laugh.

Later in the campaign he claimed he was gay.

Then journalists understood "he is gay this explains why he paraded in heels". Or "He paraded in heels, this is why he is gay".

A new problem with coïncidences that have a causal bias, you are not sure what is the consequence and what is the cause. And most people can't imagine coIncidences at all. I like your wording "link".

 

 

On 6/18/2018 at 1:22 PM, Shyheels said:

Appearing feminine doesn't exactly help the average guy who wants to wear heels either

 

High heels are not even in the 10 items that make men look feminine.

NOTE : before you interpret the expression on the guy's face on the picture below ! The guy tells he is not against appearing feminine in the video. This is just a style.

NOTE 2 : I doubt more than 5% of the 1 M viewers held more than 20s on this.

 

On 6/13/2018 at 2:13 AM, kneehighs said:

Gen Z and Millennials open to men in heels.   

Gen Z and Millennials don't rely on traditional glossy publications to guide their purchases.  They don't rely on socially constructed stereotypes either.  They rely on Social Media. 

From The Business of Fashion:

"Indeed, many millennials view the traditional luxury brand playbook — with its glossy advertising, glitzy flagships and seasonal runway shows — as a tired and inauthentic marketing formula, tied to old-fashioned ideas of social hierarchy and extravagance. Instead, it’s edgier streetwear brands like Supreme and Gosha Rubchinskiy with their carefully cultivated ‘cred’ and innovative business models, rooted in cool but accessibly priced product and tightly controlled releases, that have captured their attention."

This new attitude represents a generational shift in spending that will self sustain for decades.  For the new money that's driving growth in the economy of luxury fashion is anti-Old School, anti Print Publication, anti socially constructed stereotype.

A quote from The Business of Fashion: 

"high-end streetwear helped boost global sales of luxury personal goods by 5 percent in 2017 to an estimated €263 billion ($309 billion), according to a study released by consultancy Bain & Company. What's more, Generations Y and Z are already the main growth engine of the luxury goods market, driving 85 percent of luxury expansion last year. By 2025, they are expected to account for 45 percent of total luxury goods spending — but even this underestimates their influence."

While Gen X, Baby Boomers and Silent Generation members here may not appreciate the change since it doesn't manifest as style they approve of, my argument is that men in heels is no big deal for Gen Z and Millennials.  (been saying this for years)

 

 

In fact my problem with this way of separating generation is where (when) you put the limits depends on what you want to show. So this looks like a flexible support to any hypothesis.

I mean, real generations are overlapping. Each year there is a new generation which have an exact one-year-delay with the former.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Gudulitooo