Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[pebblesf]

Well, I guess I will adopt of "middle of the road" opinion on this.  True, many of the runway type pictures of guys in heels don't appeal to me at all.  But some do.  My issue (is being my own worst enemy as my Mom would say), is that I feel I could never successfully "pull off" most of the outfits/heels I find appealing.  True, most of these runway outfits are not practical for everyday heeling/life, perhaps only a special night out/occasion.   I guess that media photos need to learn to walk before they can run.  In other words, show "normal guys" wearing sensible heels with regular outfits.  Oh well.  So, it seems like much will rely on guys like us to encourage other guys by wearing heels in public.  

[at9]

Outfits shown on the catwalk (runway for left-pondians) are nearly always extreme in some way. Whether they are on women or men. They are intended to amaze and inspire, rather than actually be worn by real people in real life situations.

This is not a new phenomenon. Go back to Dior and the "New Look" in 1947 or even further and you'll see what I mean. Perhaps things have got even more extreme in recent times but I wouldn't be too confident about that statement.

[kneehighs]

On 9/21/2022 at 8:29 AM, VirginHeels said:

https://www.vogue.com/article/mens-platform-heels-trend/amp

All based off of this look:

https://fashionista.com/.amp/2021/07/olivia-rodrigo-white-house-outfit

Good find. I don’t have a problem with the comments here. It’s been the same set of comments for the last 20 years I’ve been on this forum. “We need normal average guys in average clothes to wear heels to go mainstream.”  Yet heels for men has never known more mainstream success in the last 2 decades than now. Especially among GenZ and Millennials, the younger generations.
 

Take TikTok for example. These guys have massive engagement. 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRagVTYW/
 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRapdUey/
 

Edited September 22, 2022 by kneehighs

[pebblesf]

23 minutes ago, kneehighs said:

Good find. I don’t have a problem with the comments here. It’s been the same set of comments for the last 20 years I’ve been on this forum. “We need normal average guys in average clothes to wear heels to go mainstream.”  Yet heels for men has never known more mainstream success in the last 2 decades than now. Especially among GenZ and Millennials, the younger generations.
 

Take TikTok for example. These guys have massive engagement. 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRagVTYW/
 

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRapdUey/
 

Well, I guess all publicity is good publicity.  But, I would love to see more guys like Harry Styles in heels, which is a bit more main stream.  The guy in the tiktok video successfully shows the power of a great pair of boots also.

[kneehighs]

Fun way to waste 8 minutes of time.  Straight couple. He's feminine presenting. She's masculine presenting. That's where they claim their polarity comes from.  They're heterosexual, monogamous.

 

[Hansi1973]

What an extraordinary couple!
RESPECT!!!

[mlroseplant]

I got smart this time, and did not read the comments section. Still I wonder. To my way of thinking, these people are not really radical at all. Other than the fake eyelashes (yuck on anybody), and the ugly-ass heels, he's not that much different from me. She claims to present masculine, but she's not that serious about it. Tomboyish, maybe? Not seriously masculine.

[Shyheels]

I agree. It’s a couple snatching at their fifteen minutes of fame. And thanks to social media these days they can get it 

[kneehighs]

On 6/13/2018 at 2:13 AM, kneehighs said:

Gen Z and Millennials open to men in heels.  

Gen Z and Millennials don't rely on traditional glossy publications to guide their purchases.  They don't rely on socially constructed stereotypes either.  They rely on Social Media. 

From The Business of Fashion:

"Indeed, many millennials view the traditional luxury brand playbook — with its glossy advertising, glitzy flagships and seasonal runway shows — as a tired and inauthentic marketing formula, tied to old-fashioned ideas of social hierarchy and extravagance. Instead, it’s edgier streetwear brands like Supreme and Gosha Rubchinskiy with their carefully cultivated ‘cred’ and innovative business models, rooted in cool but accessibly priced product and tightly controlled releases, that have captured their attention."

This new attitude represents a generational shift in spending that will self sustain for decades.  For the new money that's driving growth in the economy of luxury fashion is anti-Old School, anti Print Publication, anti socially constructed stereotype.

A quote from The Business of Fashion: 

"high-end streetwear helped boost global sales of luxury personal goods by 5 percent in 2017 to an estimated €263 billion ($309 billion), according to a study released by consultancy Bain & Company. What's more, Generations Y and Z are already the main growth engine of the luxury goods market, driving 85 percent of luxury expansion last year. By 2025, they are expected to account for 45 percent of total luxury goods spending — but even this underestimates their influence."

While Gen X, Baby Boomers and Silent Generation members here may not appreciate the change since it doesn't manifest as style they approve of, my argument is that men in heels is no big deal for Gen Z and Millennials.  (been saying this for years)

 

 

Nailed this macro pattern too.  Social Media isn't all fake.  

"Well I didn't see guys in heels on my numerous travels, so it's not true". 🙄

"Well social media is all posing, so it's fake". 🙄

I suggest these people get out of their own head -- even 5 years later -- and see the truth for what it is.  

Social media drives the economy and makes cultural change even faster now than change took just 10 years ago.

But these types of people are generally stuck in linear thinking. Let them lose opportunities and be left behind in an exponential age.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------new post from 10/11/22 merged into post from 10/10/22

Swiped from social media....quite a heart warming story about @EtwasAnders and his supportive GF, @charolinewenke

It's in Danish. I used Google Chrome's auto translate feature to put it into English:

https://www.bt.dk/samfund/mange-der-ser-mig-gaar-automatisk-ud-fra-at-jeg-er-homoseksuel?fbclid=IwAR0pr1NGoGrmGu-_yLnx-0lRusa8VGPUCRstNhE8N6vZve0sI0Ac1nq2CgA

Edited October 11, 2022 by kneehighs

[kneehighs]

 

TikTok overtook Google as the most visited website in 2021

Nearly half of Gen Z is using TikTok and Instagram for search instead of Google, according to Google's own data

And then you wonder why Google launched You Tube SHORTS?

Watching Social Media for inspiration now forms fashion, beauty, food, and entertainment culture more powerfully than reading through Google.  

It's a sign of the times. While I enjoy the community here, I'd argue the bulk of new content is on Instagram and TikTok.

 

[CAT]

TicTok is the ONLY social media I have ever had

[Shyheels]

Instagram is on a fast road to nowhere at the moment in its clumsy and futile effort to try to reinvent itself as another Tik-Tok. 

[kneehighs]

7 hours ago, CAT said:

TicTok is the ONLY social media I have ever had

Interesting. I have Twitter and Instagram, but no TikTok.

7 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Instagram is on a fast road to nowhere at the moment in its clumsy and futile effort to try to reinvent itself as another Tik-Tok. 

Instagram is so ingrained in the DNA of Western culture, it's not going anywhere. Even with small failures like copying TikTok.

[Shyheels]

44 minutes ago, kneehighs said:

Interesting. I have Twitter and Instagram, but no TikTok.

Instagram is so ingrained in the DNA of Western culture, it's not going anywhere. Even with small failures like copying TikTok.

It’s not a small failure. Even their very largest accounts are complaining about it. Passenger pigeons were once one of the worlds most populous birds. The udea they could become extinct seemed ludicrous. Find one today.

[Jkrenzer]

I'm proud to say I have none of the above. No Facebook, no Twitter etc either.

I like the seemingly closeness of this forum and have no desire for in your face low grade internet media. Never bothered and don't miss it.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Jkrenzer

[Shyheels]

I avoided all social media until a couple of years ago, but as a photographer it became useful to open an Instagram account. And it was good in a business sense for a while, but now Instagram have decided, very clumsily, to try to reinvent themselves as a second Tik Tok and they’re driving many people away.

By and large social media has done a lot to destroy society. And individuals. It has had some positive effects, yes, but these are heavily outweighed by the negative.

[kneehighs]

13 hours ago, Shyheels said:

It’s not a small failure. Even their very largest accounts are complaining about it. Passenger pigeons were once one of the worlds most populous birds. The udea they could become extinct seemed ludicrous. Find one today.

It's a small failure b/c Facebook has enough money and user base size to recover. Or public will adapt. 

Rumors TikTok is a tool of Communist China to harvest data nonconsensually. TikTok is at higher regulatory risk of extinction in the West than Insta. 

[Shyheels]

I disagree. Both Facebook and IG are increasingly seen as passé by the younger demographic who are always looking for the next big /new thing. This is why the people running them are trying to reinvent the platforms mid-stream. I think also there is going to be increasing amounts of governmental pushback and regulatory oversight and forced break-ups of these social conglomerates 

[SF]

I got off of Facebook (and most other social media in January 2020). I cherish free speech. It’s a personal choice. Smile.   sf

[pebblesf]

16 hours ago, Jkrenzer said:

I'm proud to say I have none of the above. No Facebook, no Twitter etc either.

I like the seemingly closeness of this forum and have no desire for in your face low grade internet media. Never bothered and don't miss it.

I'm with you brother!  

[kneehighs]

4 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I disagree. Both Facebook and IG are increasingly seen as passé by the younger demographic who are always looking for the next big /new thing. This is why the people running them are trying to reinvent the platforms mid-stream. I think also there is going to be increasing amounts of governmental pushback and regulatory oversight and forced break-ups of these social conglomerates 

Very low probability Instagram goes extinct. Millennials and Gen Z will keep using it for curated and edited video content, unlike TikTok which is more raw.  With EuraAsia versus West tension increasing, higher probability TikTok gets regulated out in Western countries. Marco Rubio talking about it actively in US.

2 hours ago, SF said:

I got off of Facebook (and most other social media in January 2020). I cherish free speech. It’s a personal choice. Smile.   sf

When I moved to Kyiv, I started to use FB again, because the online communities helped me make friends. Ugh.

[Shyheels]

I didn’t suggest actual extinction for FB or IG (my passenger pigeon reference was merely to show how fast something seemingly permanent can vanish)  but they are fading fast - share prices plummeting and their favourite demographic walking away in droves. The New York Times has a piece on this very thing today. I’d post a link but the NYT has a firewall - you have to subscribe to read. 

[kneehighs]

7 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I didn’t suggest actual extinction for FB or IG (my passenger pigeon reference was merely to show how fast something seemingly permanent can vanish)  but they are fading fast - share prices plummeting and their favourite demographic walking away in droves. The New York Times has a piece on this very thing today. I’d post a link but the NYT has a firewall - you have to subscribe to read. 

Is this the article? https://archive.ph/6ON3F.  Just type paywall URL's into this site: https://archive.ph/ and it will bypass the firewall

Regarding Meta Stock Price dipping, not worried. ALL stock prices have dipped since the US FED announced Quantitive Tightening back in November 2021.  A new bull cycle will come and that will change. META did mess up by repurchasing $42BN of stock in the past 12 months at an average price of $300. It is now trading at $112, lol.

Article makes same point as me. META has money and Rival TikTok at big risk of regulatory extinction in the The West.

IMHO, people will adapt until a Web 3 solution comes along. I'd bet until end of 2020's decade Insta remains the dominant social media channel--even with disgruntled users. The fall, if it happens, won't be overnight. 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by kneehighs

[kneehighs]

Mark Bryan taking A LOT of heat from the LGBT community for his comments in this interview

https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/beyond-fashion/folge-1-genderfluidity-x-hat-mode-ein-geschlecht-s01-e01/ard-kultur/Y3JpZDovL21kci5kZS9iZWl0cmFnL2Ntcy80ODljOWEyYy1hMTFmLTQ5NWYtYTcyZC02MTlmMDQ3ZmQzMTI

Relevant part starts at 20 minutes in.

LGBT community takes the side that Bryan is "fighting with us"...that Bryan is using a "fashion statement they fought for"

Bryan states "they made it more difficult for themselves....;They're too outrageous and too flamboyant".   Bryan stated the LGBT community made it more difficult for him.

https://www.queerty.com/heel-clad-hetero-influencer-says-queer-people-make-life-worse-internet-thoughts-20221104#comments

The backlash against Bryan is huge.  Total likes for Bryan's posts have decreased to about 1/4 (roughly) of what it used to average before the interview aired

Comments are almost all negative 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CkgTH-YIpiS/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by kneehighs
likes ratio changed

[mlroseplant]

I have recently had the pleasure of enduring my company's annually required harassment training. And every year, I say the same thing. I will probably say the same thing next year. The entire two hours or whatever it is could really be boiled down into one pithy statement: "Don't be a jackwagon." Mr. Bryan evidently forgot that rule.

[Shyheels]

Indeed. And these days, in terms of public statements, the best option is to say nothing or else something so anodyne that nobody could possibly take issue with it.

[Jkrenzer]

Bryan was not empathetic at all.  I'm a straight male in heels but totally respect those who aren't. It takes incredible courage for people who transform. I have none of those urges but if I did I don't know if I'd have the strength to go through with it.

[kneehighs]

4 hours ago, Jkrenzer said:

Bryan was not empathetic at all.  I'm a straight male in heels but totally respect those who aren't. It takes incredible courage for people who transform. I have none of those urges but if I did I don't know if I'd have the strength to go through with it.

I've listened to a few of his interviews. He always seemed like a decent guy to me. 

I'm sure people assume I'm gay too when they see me in heels. It's just their shortcut way to understand the world by classifying me into something they already understand.  That's the value of a stereotype.  So instead of blaming the LGBT community, Bryan might have better focused on the challenges inherent in getting people to think outside their comfort zone stereotypes as his unique battle.

[Jkrenzer]

1 hour ago, kneehighs said:

I've listened to a few of his interviews. He always seemed like a decent guy to me. 

I'm sure people assume I'm gay too when they see me in heels. It's just their shortcut way to understand the world by classifying me into something they already understand.  That's the value of a stereotype.  So instead of blaming the LGBT community, Bryan might have better focused on the challenges inherent in getting people to think outside their comfort zone stereotypes as his unique battle.

I agree he likely meant nothing negative but he he should have picked up on the facial expressions. But instead he continued to proceed despite the obvious hurt feelings displayed.

I've never been known for my understanding of others feelings, I'm known to be blunt. But even I could see his comments causing issues during the interview. 

Aside, I really likes Mark's sling backs.

[Cali]

8 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

I have recently had the pleasure of enduring my company's annually required harassment training. And every year, I say the same thing. I will probably say the same thing next year. The entire two hours or whatever it is could really be boiled down into one pithy statement: "Don't be a jackwagon." Mr. Bryan evidently forgot that rule.

I have to go to one of those trainings every few years.  But since they pay lots of money to go, I don't mind.

Several years back a woman (falsely) accused me of sexual harassment.  It turned out to be her M.O.  Every time a person would challenge her statements she would threaten them with sexual harassment and they all had back down. But I was disappointed in the job she was doing and had put together a list of reasons she should be strip of her job, how her actions was hurting the institution in general.  And I submitted those to the administration.

Then one day she came into my area (where I was in-charge) and started to behave erratically, I asked her nicely and calmly several times if I could help (I knew exactly what she was looking for), but she refused my help.  She continued to behave erratically then yelled at me and the next day filled those sexual harassment charges against me. When in fact she was the aggressor. After several stressful months of meetings with HR, it was proved that her claims were invalid and she later resigned.  It was amazing how many people, both men and women, that thanked me for standing up against her.