I hate women

[benno]

I agree, it's as if women think they have the patent right to "claim" what ever they wear (or start to wear for that matter). If they wear something from men's wardrobes it's a "sexy masculine" look if men wears anything nearly resembling feminine its seen as crossdressing and men as Transvestites (no offence to either) women created the walls we now have to break down to wear high heels or what ever they claimed to be theirs.

And don't think they'll let those baricated walls fall easilly.........

For god's sake women didn't do anything except celebrate centuries of oppression by wearing what the hell they liked. Have you ever worn a corset? I have. It's fun and feels really lovely but there is not a chance you could make me wear one every day of my life and let it's iron grip stop me from riding my bike or climbing trees.

When women get the chance to be equal to men in pay and social status then you can moan at them about your choice to wear what you like.

Get over the fact that men in heels looks odd to some people and they have every right to say they don't like it. Just don't blame anything on women only. That's called hate.

Get out there and make a change. Sadly the change won't be instant.

[Pumps]

Get over the fact that men in heels looks odd to some people and they have every right to say they don't like it.

Right. Just like I think women in crocs look ridiculous. It doesn't mean that I will laugh at them, say that thay are lesbians (if that had anything to do with crocs) or say that I would never date a girl in crogs. That's the difference.

Just don't blame anything on women only. That's called hate.

Hence the title.

[benno]

Pumps, I hate to say it but to most people women wearing crocs is socially acceptable and men wearing womens heels isn't. It's as simple as that. What I am happy to say is go out in your heels and help to start to make the change we are all desperate for. If you really hate women then I feel sorry for you. All the best, Ben

[Pumps]

What I am saying is go out in your heels and help to start to make the change we are all desperate for.

I've been more public than most here, so that's no problem.

[radiodave]

My $0.02. Pumps, I think saying you hate women is no better than the immature ones you point out on the hipcandy blog who diss guys wearing heels. Sure, there will always be those immature folks who don't accept it, and they don't have to. I think it's a foregone conclusion that folks will say anything on an Internet blog that they probably won't say to your face. So who cares what they really think? There are probably folks who think guys with an earring are gay, guys who drink wine are gay, and guys who listen to classical music are gay. Well, nuts to them I say. If they are so narrow minded and immature to think that, then I wouldn't associate with them anyway. A very important lesson I learned from my wife is that it doesn't matter what other people think; what's important is what you think of yourself and that you believe in yourself. It's something I'm still learning. The only time I've been streetheeling I had one teenage girl trying hard not to stare, and that was it. I could just imagine that girl being one of the ones on that blog who would say "Ew! Like, that's so gay!". But who cares?? Teenage girls aren't widely known for being open minded. I was confident that there's nothing wrong with my wearing stiletto boots, and there isn't. It's just human nature that anything out of the ordinary attracts attention, but I think nowadays folks are slowly getting used to unusual things. I really think more women are accepting of it than we believe though. My wife didn't mind, and I think that hipcandy blog isn't representative of the majority. I think to the dissenters, that article sticks out like a sore thumb, so they have to say something about it. Folks who are indifferent or supportive of it probably don't post anything, and the ones who really encourage it are probably not as plentiful. So, since the dissenters rally around that, I think it skews our perception of what the majority think.

[yozz]

Like with any new fashion, many people will at first think negative things. If the years have been accumulating on you, you may remember that when the miniskirt came out, almost everybody was speaking shame of it. Yet a few months later most women had one (or more). To most people the idea of men in heels is rather new and like a new fashion they may think and even say YUK. This lasts till they have seen it a fair number of times and then they will look for something else to gossip about. When questions about men in heels (or in skirts or whatever) are asked on a blog or forum, many people will react with what they think other people will think they should react with. This is very much so with the people in most of those blogs I have seen. The really smart and sensitive people probably don't say very much. In dutch we say "empty barrels sound loudest" (free translation). Another good example is taking a walk through the red light district in Amsterdam (very touristy). You immediately pick out the British. They are usually very loud to give themselves a posture because they think they shouldn't be there. If you would give significance to the remarks made by those people...... Of course you have a point that you may attract more negative remarks than most of the people here. If you wear red pumps in public you are not really hiding anything. And there may also be a big difference where you do this. In Amsterdam or London people are used to a lot and will usually think "if that is what he likes". Don't try that though in one of the small very calvinistic towns here in the Netherlands where they still think that every woman in Amsterdam must be a whore and every man a drugs dealer. Don't despair. There are also women who have an open mind. As you can read in our fantastic hhplace, many of us have found one of those. Of course, quite a few haven't, but to generalize from the negative experiences is of the same category as saying that all men in heels or a skirt must be gay, or all men must be alcoholics, or all women like soaps. Don't give up. If you find the right woman, you will be in heaven. Y.

[JNR]

I still can't imagin how you can get yourself wrapped so tightly around the axel by allowing female attitudes to drive your emotions. I have read all of your postings and am fully aware of where you've worn your heels and that you've commented about the dirty looks, smirks and less than flattering treatment women have given. But, common man, everyone of us has something someone in our society doesn't like about us. So, why let that bother you? I'm sure if you delved into some of these women's personalities and pasts, you would find a whole bunch of stuff that if known by others ,reflected poorly upon them. Perhaps even to a greater degree than what they think of you. So, think about these issues, don't let their attitudes get to you. Get on with life and enjoy your heels...To hell with them. Take a page out of Thighbootguy's playbook. He askes people how they like his looks. Perhaps you might develop a similar technique to "disarm" critics before they have time to react.....(cut them off at the pass, so to speak.)

[Fog]

Pumps, this might sound harsh, but if when you street heel you don't get spontaneous positive comments from men or women, you're doing it wrong! It's down to attitude. When I've had the wrong attitude, not positive and loving every minute of it, or not looking fit and healthy (as I sometimes don't) that's when it all goes wrong.

[Tech]

Look at it in the same way a guy might when he see's a butch macho looking woman and might think "Lesbian" Its not about the shoes, its the overall image. If you wear pumps, and look like a prat, then people will laugh at you or say stupid things, but if you wear heels and look good/sensible/etc then people wont even notice. I did happen to notice when I met you though that you did look very nervous/uncomfortable in your pumps, and your overall demeanor gave off an odd vibe, as if you just wernt happy or comfortable doing what you were doing...?? This on its own is what got my attention very quickly, and was quite noticable, so maybe its not the shoes, maybe its the wearer... In a similar way to how you get that feeling when somebody is "acting suspicously". Look at kneehighs, he doesnt have any bother, but if your around him for more than 5 minutes you'll see that he comes across as a happy guy, relaxed and chilled, and if he didnt tell you, you might not even notice his shoes. **********03:30am---Afterthought*********** If I asked everybody at the heelmeet what shoes you wer wearing, I'd bet every single person could get it right. One thing that struck me was that the shoes themselves just SCREAM OUT LOUD and are the kind of heels we would probably expect to find shockqueen wearing. Of course, I dont know if thats what you wear when you go out every day, or when you encounter these negative incidents, but maybe if you share with us here in this thread a little more visual elements such as pictures of how you might typically go out, or have been out when you have encountered such negative moments, we might all be able to club together and help out with some advice or thoughts? In fact, I want to add also, that this is in NO WAY intended as any form of insult to you pumps, so dont take it that way. There is obviously a reason why your getting such a bad reaction, so, share the pain, get some gain... Win-Win...

[bootish]

Well, I cannot second that. I wear heels all the time, and have received many positice comments. And it is not a specific age. Maybe young girls have not mastered to be quiet when they think something is funny, so you get sometimes giggling from them. But even wearing my leopard pumps, I have received many positive comments. Going into a restaurant, two woman around 30 looked at the pumps and my dressing and said "Hey, that looks really good". In a shoe shop a woman looked at me and said "Gosh, I wish I had legs like that." Getting a coffe at McCafe, a table of young girls started staring and then giggling, but one stood up and questioned me. "You are a guy, aren't you?" "Yep" I say, and she goes "that looks really cool" and then to the others "Well, it does look good." They kinda left their mouths open that she said that and I couldn't help myself getting a big fat smile. Going on a train, black pumps on. Two young girls enter and we start chatting about the music on my iPod they liked. No giggling, no nothing. Actually, very often somebody approaches me and asks where I get my stuff. It is that often that a colleague, who I went out with, asked. "You pay them to say those things, don't you?" And 10:1, it is women coming to me. I guess, if you dress up, you must accept that you are loked after - isn't the show half of the fun?

[JNR]

Look at it in the same way a guy might when he see's a butch macho looking woman and might think "Lesbian"

Its not about the shoes, its the overall image.

If you wear pumps, and look like a prat, then people will laugh at you or say stupid things, but if you wear heels and look good/sensible/etc then people wont even notice.

I did happen to notice when I met you though that you did look very nervous/uncomfortable in your pumps, and your overall demeanor gave off an odd vibe, as if you just wernt happy or comfortable doing what you were doing...??

This on its own is what got my attention very quickly, and was quite noticable, so maybe its not the shoes, maybe its the wearer...

In a similar way to how you get that feeling when somebody is "acting suspicously". Look at kneehighs, he doesnt have any bother, but if your around him for more than 5 minutes you'll see that he comes across as a happy guy, relaxed and chilled, and if he didnt tell you, you might not even notice his shoes.

Ah, there in lies the problem. Richie has put his finger directly on the problem. And, the problem is you.

[ShockQueen]

I would have to say I've had nothing but positive experiences from women regarding my heeling choices. I had a really nice talk with one of the supervisors where I work at, and asked her what she thought about me wearing wedge-heel boots. She said I should be able to wear what I want, and didn't have any problem with it. She also admired that I went out and had my nails done as she had done it herself before. I guess it depends on the mindset of the ladies you run into. Yes, some of the younger girls give you remarks like those in the kindergarten sandbox, but that's just them. Not everyone was raised to be open-minded, and that's just the society in which we live - I doubt that'll change anytime soon.

[Tljakes]

For god's sake women didn't do anything except celebrate centuries of oppression by wearing what the hell they liked. Have you ever worn a corset? I have. It's fun and feels really lovely but there is not a chance you could make me wear one every day of my life and let it's iron grip stop me from riding my bike or climbing trees.

When women get the chance to be equal to men in pay and social status then you can moan at them about your choice to wear what you like.

Get over the fact that men in heels looks odd to some people and they have every right to say they don't like it. Just don't blame anything on women only. That's called hate.

Get out there and make a change. Sadly the change won't be instant.

Thanks for the inputs but you might have missed the point a bit. I do wear corsets from time to time, as well as skirts, makeup and sometimes nailpolish. Sometimes I even wear it all together. The point is that very little women will truely accept feminine articles of clothing on men. Being in a country where women gets the best jobs and better pay as companies are forced to do employment equity by law, you can say that that women gained that equallity.

If you read between the lines you'll also see that the main intension is not pure Hate as you would like to put it and it's not saying that everything is blamed on women. But the truth is that I understand what Pumps is feeling and trying to say. And women will have to change their mindset dramatically to accept men in anything feminine.

[Pumps]

Boy, did trying to be honst come bite me in the butt here. You guys are way ovverreacting.

[raymond.nl]

Minority? Really? I'd think that of women as a whole about 5% will be positive about men in heels.

... and only 5% will ridicule men for wearing high heels!

It's not like being hated for your skin color, it's girls giggling about your fashion taste!

How many women are positive about bald (me), short (me), nerds (me) wearing heels (me)? Far less than 5%, but I wouldn't change places with anyone in this world!

PS: 5% being positive = 150 million smiling women! Wow!

[Fog]

Boy, did trying to be honst come bite me in the butt here.

You guys are way ovverreacting.

I don't think so! People here are giving you their experience as they see it. Men wearing heels or other feminine garments is not usual, and it takes a lot of confidence to pull it off. You have to be able to look at yourself in a mirror, or take a picture and feel comfortable putting that up for all to see. You then have to take that confidence and self belief out with you. If you don't you will look a prat - and that's nothing to do with the way you look, but it's all to do with the way you project yourself. Your body language will do 95% of the talking.

Must dash, I'm off to the osteopath! I don't want to sound a negative note, but I don't wear heels any more, my ankles are shot.

[fastfreddy2]

That's really not the point. It's not the actual comment or laughter I'm talking about, but rather the attitude behind it. That some people hide it really doesn't change anything.

So your expectation is; that you think everyone, but especially women should find men wearing heels perfectly acceptable?

You want too much. The World doesn't turn at the speed you want it to. Maybe in 10 or 20 years it'll be common-place for men to wear heels, or at least it won't be as unusual as it seems to be at present. But expecting women to immediately accept the new concept you bring to them <and men would be far worse> just isn't a realistic prospect.

Well, actually the views that come out here, may be the views people are to polite to tell you to your face. It doesn't change the fact they don't accept your right to fashion freedom.

Your "right" to fashion freedom?

The only 'right' you have in Western Europe is the right to be yourself. If you choose to dress in what most people would see as an unusual way, or you choose to be a pioneer in dress style, you have to accept you will have critics. You have to accept that your mode of style isn't, and never will be, acceptable to some people.

Is that supposed to make me feel better ? I think the remarks in that blog were bad enough.

Better? No. It's supposed to be something of a reality check.

If you are looking for evidence that most people <and not just women> still don't find men wearing heels a fully acceptable dress style, that evidence isn't hard to find....

Look in at a politically r/wing forum, and you'll find people like us "should be locked up". MANY countries, and at least one fairly popular religion, would (literally) have us beaten to death in the street......

I don't care what people think when they see (or hear) me in heels. I've no control over it, so I can never change it. But as long as they let me about my business, I'm satisfied with getting 'live and let live' from them. If young or stupid/ignorant people choose to insult or abuse me, I hope I can deal with it, in an adult manner. I certainly don't feel I'm in a position to make demands on anyone about accepting my dress style, and that would include friends and family members, much less people who have never met me.

I think you expectation is way, way too high.

Richie: Wild guess; red patent pumps?

.......

P.S.

There's a lot of good posts in this thread, especially from Benno and Bubba.

[shyguy]

Boy, did trying to be honst come bite me in the butt here.

You guys are way ovverreacting.

No disrespect pumps, I don't know you at all, but using a strong word like hate in the short sentence you did was surely going to provoke the kind of debate you have seen here.

I can't believe you didn't expect it ?

But it has certainly livened things up here.

[thedesigner]

i only hate women in crocs.... cos theyve got as much fashion sense as a teacosy....... i love showin my new heels to my female clique, they like a bloke who's honest with himself, and less likely to beat the sh*t out of them... and believe me theres plenty like that.....

[Pumps]

I did ask for this thread to be removed, but since it's still here I feel I should add some comments. People seem offended that I have used the word hate. I think it's an overreaction. It's posted in the guys forum and not directed towards anyone nor is it ment for anyone to take personally. I there were a similar post in the girls forum, which I see regularly in other forums, I would not take it personally. It was meant as an example of a sideeffekt of being unfairly treated. I did not decide to hate women, it has been happening over time. One day I just realized that I'm not interested in dating anymore, because I just don't like them. It's not a choice. It just happened. About my red pumps: First of all: They're 4" not 5" Second of all: They're leather not patent Third of all. I have never worn them outside exept for the heelmeet, where I thought I was among people who would accept them. I see I was wrong. I have said in the past that I problably wouldn't wear them outside, because I thought they were too loud, which some people didn't agree with. Fourth of all. Women DO wear red pumps. My colleague just bought a pair of gourgeous red pumps and I've seen 2 other girls this week in red pumps. As I've said before in this thread this is not about the comments so lay off my apperence and clothes. I'm posting in a forum much bigger and much more active than this. From time to time people will post about guys wearing skirts,heels,g-strings, pantyhose,makeup and so on and EVERYTIME the comments about "Men should be men", "That is for gays" "there's something wrong with you". Same thing in every other forum, every blog and basically everywhere you read. At the end of the day those kind of remarks WILL affect you. They affected me. You may not like it but that's how it is. About the whole LailaLily thing. First of all the designer started the thread not me. In comes a person who apparently thinks male heelers should be "Shot and burned to the ground" and gives a statement that I still find confusing. I wanted her to clairify it. It was not harrasment. She could have easily have ignored me instead of thowing a tantrum. I think if I'm supposed to be shot, I would at least have the right to ask why.

[Guest]

gee pumps, I think that you really should relax about this stuff, you know its really not all that big of a deal to get THAT worked up about stuff, really now.......looks like you need a REALLY stiff drink to calm you down, please- its NOT the end of the world:smile:

[Trolldeg]

In comes a person who apparently thinks male heelers should be "Shot and burned to the ground" and gives a statement that I still find confusing.

Where did you get this from? LailaLily has been crystal clear in her views, but you seem to prefer your own made up version of her oppinions... jeez.

[fastfreddy2]

Pumps:

Most people, if not everyone, grows up in an environment where they are conditioned (brainwashed if you like) into believing they must conform and adhere to a certain set of cultural "rules". These rules include behavioural expectations like; you go outside with clothes on for example, and generally speaking; being polite to everyone you meet. This situation has developed over a couple of thousand years at least, here in Western Europe.

No matter how much you want that to change these rules, no matter how much any of us want them to change immediately, they won't. Not, at least, at the speed we would all like anyway. We have seen more cultural change in the last 50 years, than possibly the previous 500 or even 1000 years, but men dressing in what is generally accepted as 'womens' attire is a step too far for just about everyone everywhere. One or two here have found an 'oasis of empathy', but generally speaking, we're on our own..... "Fair", "Rights", and all the other words associated with equality, are of no use when confronting millennia of cultural training.

As for "I hate women", but it wasn't personal ..... Try standing in front of a black man who says he hates whites, "but don't take it personally" and experience how personal that remark feels. [As with you standing in front of a black man and saying you don't like the colour of his skin, "but don't take it personally".]

You just can't say you hate a whole gender, and not expect them to take it personally.

As for taking a swipe at the people here..... I can assure you, no-one here dislikes either you, or the way you dress, nor what you wear on your feet. In fact, if you were to read what has been written (rather than what you think has been written) you'll find there's nothing but empathy and friendship here for you. I see nothing but support.

With that in mind, I'd propose that if you can't get on with the like-minded people here, you've got no chance at all out in the Real World.

Lastly, the concept of not agreeing with, but supporting. (For clarity.)

In America especially, citizens have a Bill of Rights that guarantees them the freedom to say what they like with impunity. This means that people there can legally say the most awful things about minority groups if they want to, and it's not only allowed, but it's un-stoppable. Lawyers from time to time have to uphold these rights in a courtroom in front of a judge, for racists and bigots to assert 'their right' say the most awful things publicly and without fear of prosecution. It's quite likely these 'extreme' views won't be shared by the lawyers?

Putting this into context here, LL supports your right to wear what you want, when you want, though she doesn't personally agree with you wearing HH's. [Doubtless as with many people, she simply doesn't find them attractive while being worn by men.] So she supports you wearing them, (supports your personal right to dress how it pleases you) but would probably prefer you to wear what are considered men's shoes....

'Supporting' and 'agreeing with', can be mutually exclusive.

....

[kneehighs]

Pumps It's not necessary to change your view of women for anyone.

Opinions are an inescapable fact of life, so you may as well learn to live with them, both good and bad.

Have you ever heard of the parable of Hodja and his son?

If not, you might be interested in reading it, since it poignantly addresses your current personal challenge. The first person to ever share this parable with me was a woman, a good looking woman at that...and I was wearing stiletto pumps at the time. You can read about it HERE.

Again, you really shouldn't change your perception of women for anyone except for yourself.

[Guest]

I agree with fastfreddie, I think that he has just about put it all "in a nutshell" as to these concepts are (@ present that is) in MOST but not ALL of the known world (west, east, north & south folks) it is "cultural training" so to speak, but like so many different places & times different standards of gender identity are different things to all people- hint: some people still in other countries & cultures would still not understand WESTERN differences of gender styles OR their perceived meaning in the SAME way as we ourselves do in the WESTERN world! (the "whatever" smilies guy indicates it would not be anything to care about one way or the other to some of these other people in the same way for example as seems to be with other western societies)

[fastfreddy2]

Ripped from the link 2 posts above.

Well, this Saturday night I found myself in Manhattan's Meatpacking District's ONE yet again.

While at the bar eating my duck spring rolls with mango sauce, I looked over to my right and had the opportunity to talk with this lady. Turns out she was born in Greece, runs a few businesses from her homes in Toronto and Mexico, was doing research on modeling the concept of ONE in a similar neighborhood in Toronto, and she was VERY open minded. She's a succesful independent minded entrepreneur.

......... See link for un-edited content, including excellent parable! ...........

Then she went on to say that no matter what you do you'll be criticized. So her opinion was that I should wear heels, that she would willingly be seen with me in public in them, and if it makes me happy, do it. She was too old for my taste (46), but her age adds to Emery's Biologically Imperative Theory that older women that can no longer bear children are more prone to support street heeling men than women that still have the biological capacity to reproduce.

Nice outcome there, eh?

Emery's Biologically Imperative Theory?

Had a quick search and this wasn't found.... but if it exists, I'm glad my experience is supported by research (other than my own).

"I rest my case."

......

[Bubba136]

Snip:

About my red pumps:

I have never worn them outside exept for the heelmeet, where I thought I was among people who would accept them. I see I was wrong. I

This is interesting to me. Who, or which people, didn't accept you in red pumps? People at the heel meet or people that were at places thay you and other members went to after you departed from the original heelmeet meeting place? (I can't imagin kneehighs or any of the other members that attended not accepting you wearing them....)

[Tech]

People seem offended that I have used the word hate. I think it's an overreaction. It's posted in the guys forum and not directed towards anyone nor is it ment for anyone to take personally.

Too late for that. This isnt much different to racial discrimination, but, because of who you are, and the nature of your issue, I think its highly interesting to let this thread stick, and discuss it at length if need be.

What you have said has cast all females with the same "attitude", just as somebody might do about race, religion etc etc.

If there were a similar post in the girls forum, which I see regularly in other forums, I would not take it personally.

It was meant as an example of a sideeffekt of being unfairly treated. I did not decide to hate women, it has been happening over time. One day I just realized that I'm not interested in dating anymore, because I just don't like them. It's not a choice. It just happened.

Thats a really really bad move, to decide you dont like "women" anymore because of what a bunch of ""Stay at home internet critiques bitch about.

Also, try to understand the difference between just not liking women because of what "society" might think, and hating all women becuase you "think" you cant wear feminine items that you like.

About my red pumps:

First of all: They're 4" not 5"

Second of all: They're leather not patent

Third of all. I have never worn them outside exept for the heelmeet, where I thought I was among people who would accept them.

"Accept them"

No, I disagree, we dont have to accept your shoes at all, we accept "YOU" first, and the shoes are just a "preference thing", not everybody will love or like your shoes, or not everybody will say "You look great", but you are amoung like minded people.

No different to people with any other interest like car racing..

You all have your own car preferences, some may really not like other's cars and are free to express those thoughts, opinions and judgements, but your all there to race your cars.

Those pumps are REALLY LOUD, but you are REALLY QUIET, and not only did it look un-co-ordinated, you looked uncomfortable/nervous like you wasnt relaxed or enjoying yourself, which is the entire point of a heelmeet, is to relax around "like minded" (Not identical) people.

Anybody wearing any loud ass footwear with very conservative clothing will get very noticed and people will probably think it looks odd because it goes together like chalk and cheese.

I see I was wrong. I have said in the past that I problably wouldn't wear them outside, because I thought they were too loud, which some people didn't agree with.

Fourth of all. Women DO wear red pumps. My colleague just bought a pair of gourgeous red pumps and I've seen 2 other girls this week in red pumps.

As I've said before in this thread this is not about the comments so lay off my apperence and clothes.

ok, so the details were not 100% accurate, but you see the impression those shoes give off? There so bright, all people remember is bright red stillettos, and everything else is a guess.

We dont know what you wear outside because, despite asking, you havent showed us have you...

And, this IS about the comments, because thats what you have stated as your reasons for hating women. You hate women because you cant wear the same clothes without being laughed at, or insulted etc... so, it IS about the comments because thats the #1 reason for you feeling like you cant wear whatever you want.

I hate to say this but your very "inconsistent"...

I'm posting in a forum much bigger and much more active than this. From time to time people will post about guys wearing skirts,heels,g-strings, pantyhose,makeup and so on and EVERYTIME the comments about "Men should be men", "That is for gays" "there's something wrong with you". Same thing in every other forum, every blog and basically everywhere you read. At the end of the day those kind of remarks WILL affect you. They affected me. You may not like it but that's how it is.

Would you say "A woman should be a woman", if a woman dresses and looks like a man she must be a lesbian right? The big butch dyke stereotype...

Dude, take a chill pill and get over it, absolutely everything in life has a stereotype, its human nature to want to pidgeonhole and organise everything into understandable categories, thats how we make sense of life sometimes.

I bet you organise things around your home into categories, classifications, types etc as its easier to understand right? Its how the brain is wired.

About the whole LailaLily thing. First of all the designer started the thread not me. In comes a person who apparently thinks male heelers should be "Shot and burned to the ground" and gives a statement that I still find confusing.

It was said "in jest", as a joke, meant to be funny but obviously didnt go down too well. Lost in translation shall we say...

I wanted her to clairify it. It was not harrasment. She could have easily have ignored me instead of thowing a tantrum. I think if I'm supposed to be shot, I would at least have the right to ask why.

Next time, send the person a polite private message and ask, dont make accusations of "throwing a tantrum" when yo have mis-understood the entire comment and retaliated, you wouldnt do it in person, so here should be no different.

So, show us what you do go out in then, and let us see what all the fuss is about?

[johnieheel]

Maby there is a need for professional counseling Pumps. Sounds to me like you have more than just one issue (other than red heels) here. I love women and respect every opinion, good or not so good. I do have a couple women in my life, including one of my daughters, who are not very keen on the idea that dad wears heels but it doesn't change anything about our love and respect for one another. It's just there opinion. Thats all.

[Tom-NL]

Emery's Biologically Imperative Theory?

Had a quick search and this wasn't found....

Emery was a member here in the first years this board existed. Later on he left the board, but his posts are still here and recommended reading IMHO.

Do a search for "Emery", and start reading (his name is not to be found in the members list anymore)