Sizing Differences.

[ilikekicks]

Ive noticed ( as probably a lot of others have ) that sizes have never been consistent amongst different brands or ' names ' of footware.

In a nine west, a size 10 used to fit perfect. In Aldo, a 10.5 or 11 was a perfect fit. Pleaser was a 10, ZiGi was a 10.5 or 11...

Recently, I've had to purchase a half to a whole size larger. NineWest is now a 10.5 or 11 for a good fit.

Shoe Makers/MFGR's are now ( supposedly ) making ' larger ' sizes. Its not that uncommon to see a size 10 or 11 on the shelves of a lot of different brands.

What Im questioning is if these makers are just re-labeling things a bit and then adding 1 larger size to their lines after relabeling.

An example would be that a maker might have a size 12 out there in their listings, but in older measuring, its really a size 11 and their present size 11 is really a 10-10.5.

Anyone else noticed such?

Cheers!

-ILK

[Bikergoth]

Yeah, I have had the same problem here in the UK.

 

A Topshop 41 used to fit a treat, but now a 42 seems to be the best fit. Pleaser used to be a 10 but the last pair of Pleaser's I bought were too small so I exchanged them for a size 11.

 

I thought it was just the shape of my feet that had changed due to a change of circumstances resulting in my being on my feet all day...

[ilikekicks]

I thought it was just the shape of my feet that had changed due to a change of circumstances resulting in my being on my feet all day...

I thought that maybe my feet were a tad bigger or ' setteling ' as Ive hit the ' mid 40s ' in my years. I then put on several pairs of pumps that I have had for a few years and they all still fit the same, nice and cozy. All were 9.5 to 10 US womens in size. Today, a US womans 10 is very tight.

[blueparrot]

I've noticed it both ways.  I used to buy 12's in some brands and now they are too big.  11 is my "normal" size but at the same time some brands do seem smaller.  Nine West I now need 12 where 11 used to fit.  Mostly a problem with width however, not length when too tight.  I could probably get into 10 if they were wide, though wides are more scarce than 11's. 

[Histiletto]

I often wonder what the scale or conversion chart would look like if all footwear used the same universal measurements and didn't distinguish on a sex bases or age. In other words, a young toddler's feet would start the scale between 8 to 10cm. Then the increments of .3cm would determine the length sizing units. The width would also be done starting with the common foot width of young toddlers, say 7cm and increase that by increments of .2cm.
LENGTH SIZING
10cm = SZ 1        10.3cm = SZ 1-1    10.6cm = SZ 1-2    10.9cm = SZ 1-3    11.2cm = SZ 1-4    11.5cm = SZ 1-5
11.8cm = SZ 1-6    12.1cm = SZ 1-7    12.4cm = SZ 1-8    12.7cm = SZ 1-9  
13cm = SZ 2        13.3cm = SZ 2-1    13.6cm = SZ 2-2    13.9cm = SZ 2-3    14.2cm = SZ 2-4    14.5cm = SZ 2-5
 14.8cm = SZ 2-6    15.1cm = SZ 2-7    15.4cm = SZ 2-8    15.7cm = SZ 2-9    
16cm = SZ 3        16.3cm = SZ 3-1    16.6cm = SZ 3-2    16.9cm = SZ 3-3    17.2cm = SZ 3-4    17.5cm = SZ 3-5
17.8cm = SZ 3-6    18.1cm = SZ 3-7    18.4cm = SZ 3-8    18.7cm = SZ 3-9  
19cm = SZ 4        19.3cm = SZ 4-1    19.6cm = SZ 4-2    19.9cm = SZ 4-3    20.2cm = SZ 4-4    20.5cm = SZ 4-5
20.8cm = SZ 4-6    21.1cm = SZ 4-7    21.4cm = SZ 4-8    21.7cm = SZ 4-9  
22cm = SZ 5         22.3cm = SZ 5-1    22.6cm = SZ 5-2    22.9cm = SZ 5-3    23.2cm = SZ 5-4    23.5cm = SZ 5-5 

23.8cm = SZ 5-6    24.1cm = SZ 5-7    24.4cm = SZ 5-8    24.7cm = SZ 5-9  
25cm = SZ 6        25.3cm = SZ 6-1    25.6cm = SZ 6-2    25.9cm = SZ 6-3    26.2cm = SZ 6-4    26.5cm = SZ 6-5
26.8cm = SZ 6-6    27.1cm = SZ 6-7    27.4cm = SZ 6-8    27.7cm = SZ 6-9  
28cm = SZ 7       28.3cm = SZ 7-1    28.6cm = SZ 7-2    28.9cm = SZ 7-3    29.2cm = SZ 7-4   29.5cm = SZ 7-5
29.8cm = SZ 7-6    30.1cm = SZ 7-7    30.4cm = SZ 7-8    30.7cm = SZ 7-9  
31cm = SZ 8        31.3cm = SZ 8-1    31.6cm = SZ 8-2    31.9cm = SZ 8-3    32.2cm = SZ 8-4    32.5cm = SZ 8-5
32.8cm = SZ 8-6    33.1cm = SZ 8-7    33.4cm = SZ 8-8    33.7cm = SZ 8-9  
34cm = SZ 9        34.3cm = SZ 9-1    34.6cm = SZ 9-2    34.9cm = SZ 9-3    35.2cm = SZ 9-4    35.5cm = SZ 9-5

 35.8cm = SZ 9-6    36.1cm = SZ 9-7    36.4cm = SZ 9-8    36.7cm = SZ 9-9   
37cm = SZ 10    37.3cm = SZ 10-1   37.6cm = SZ 10-2   37.9cm = SZ 10-3   38.2cm = SZ 10-4   38.5cm = SZ 10-5
  38.8cm = SZ 10-6    39.1cm = SZ 10-7    39.4cm = SZ 10-8    39.7cm = SZ 10-9
40cm = SZ 11    40.3cm = SZ 11-1   40.6cm = SZ 11-2    40.9cm = SZ 11-3   41.2cm = SZ 11-4   41.5cm = SZ 11-5
  41.8cm = SZ 11-6    42.1cm = SZ 11-7    42.4cm = SZ 11-8    42.7cm = SZ 11-9
43cm = SZ 12   43.3cm = SZ 12-1   43.6cm = SZ 12-2   43.9cm = SZ 12-3   44.2cm = SZ 12-4   44.5cm = SZ 12-5
  44.8cm = SZ 12-6    45.1cm = SZ 12-7    45.4cm = SZ 12-8    45.7cm = SZ 12-9

WIDTH SIZING

  6cm = AA   6.2cm = AB    6.4cm = AC   6.6cm = AD   6.8cm = AE

  7cm = BA    7.2cm = BB    7.4cm = BC   7.6cm = BD   7.8cm = BE

 

  8cm = CA    8.2cm = CB   8.4cm = CC   8.6cm = CD   8.8cm = CE

  9cm = DA    9.2cm = DB   9.4cm = DC   9.6cm = DD   9.8cm = DE

 

10cm = EA   10.2cm = EB 10.4cm = EC 10.6cm = ED 10.8cm = EE

11cm = FA   11.2cm = FB 11.4cm = FC  11.6cm = FD 11.8cm = FE

 

12cm = GA  12.2cm = GB 12.4cm = GC 12.6cm = GD 12.8cm = GE

13cm = HA  13.2cm = HB 13.4cm = HC  13.6cm = HD 13.8cm = HE

So a toddler's size could look like 1-1AA. A child's size could look like 3-4BB or 4CA. An adult's size could look like 6CC or 12-9HE (which is equivalent to the length of 45.7cm or about 18 inches with a width of 13.8cm or about 5 7/16 inches).

 

I realize there are still factors that have to be addressed, such as the total perimeter across the ball joints of the toes, the different extremes of the foot's arch, the different widths of the foot's heel, and foot deformities and ailments, but may be these could be fixed by inserts of some type.

[Shyheels]

Who do you know who has a foot 18 inches long?

[Dr. Shoe]

 

I often wonder what the scale or conversion chart would look like if all footwear used the same universal measurements and didn't distinguish on a sex bases or age. In other words, a young toddler's feet would start the scale between 8 to 10cm. Then the increments of .3cm would determine the length sizing units. The width would also be done starting with the common foot width of young toddlers, say 7cm and increase that by increments of .2cm.

LENGTH SIZING

10cm = SZ 1        10.3cm = SZ 1-1    10.6cm = SZ 1-2    10.9cm = SZ 1-3    11.2cm = SZ 1-4    11.5cm = SZ 1-5

11.8cm = SZ 1-6    12.1cm = SZ 1-7    12.4cm = SZ 1-8    12.7cm = SZ 1-9  

13cm = SZ 2        13.3cm = SZ 2-1    13.6cm = SZ 2-2    13.9cm = SZ 2-3    14.2cm = SZ 2-4    14.5cm = SZ 2-5

 14.8cm = SZ 2-6    15.1cm = SZ 2-7    15.4cm = SZ 2-8    15.7cm = SZ 2-9    

16cm = SZ 3        16.3cm = SZ 3-1    16.6cm = SZ 3-2    16.9cm = SZ 3-3    17.2cm = SZ 3-4    17.5cm = SZ 3-5

17.8cm = SZ 3-6    18.1cm = SZ 3-7    18.4cm = SZ 3-8    18.7cm = SZ 3-9  

19cm = SZ 4        19.3cm = SZ 4-1    19.6cm = SZ 4-2    19.9cm = SZ 4-3    20.2cm = SZ 4-4    20.5cm = SZ 4-5

20.8cm = SZ 4-6    21.1cm = SZ 4-7    21.4cm = SZ 4-8    21.7cm = SZ 4-9  

22cm = SZ 5         22.3cm = SZ 5-1    22.6cm = SZ 5-2    22.9cm = SZ 5-3    23.2cm = SZ 5-4    23.5cm = SZ 5-5 

23.8cm = SZ 5-6    24.1cm = SZ 5-7    24.4cm = SZ 5-8    24.7cm = SZ 5-9  

25cm = SZ 6        25.3cm = SZ 6-1    25.6cm = SZ 6-2    25.9cm = SZ 6-3    26.2cm = SZ 6-4    26.5cm = SZ 6-5

26.8cm = SZ 6-6    27.1cm = SZ 6-7    27.4cm = SZ 6-8    27.7cm = SZ 6-9  

28cm = SZ 7       28.3cm = SZ 7-1    28.6cm = SZ 7-2    28.9cm = SZ 7-3    29.2cm = SZ 7-4   29.5cm = SZ 7-5

29.8cm = SZ 7-6    30.1cm = SZ 7-7    30.4cm = SZ 7-8    30.7cm = SZ 7-9  

31cm = SZ 8        31.3cm = SZ 8-1    31.6cm = SZ 8-2    31.9cm = SZ 8-3    32.2cm = SZ 8-4    32.5cm = SZ 8-5

32.8cm = SZ 8-6    33.1cm = SZ 8-7    33.4cm = SZ 8-8    33.7cm = SZ 8-9  

34cm = SZ 9        34.3cm = SZ 9-1    34.6cm = SZ 9-2    34.9cm = SZ 9-3    35.2cm = SZ 9-4    35.5cm = SZ 9-5

 35.8cm = SZ 9-6    36.1cm = SZ 9-7    36.4cm = SZ 9-8    36.7cm = SZ 9-9   

37cm = SZ 10    37.3cm = SZ 10-1   37.6cm = SZ 10-2   37.9cm = SZ 10-3   38.2cm = SZ 10-4   38.5cm = SZ 10-5

  38.8cm = SZ 10-6    39.1cm = SZ 10-7    39.4cm = SZ 10-8    39.7cm = SZ 10-9

40cm = SZ 11    40.3cm = SZ 11-1   40.6cm = SZ 11-2    40.9cm = SZ 11-3   41.2cm = SZ 11-4   41.5cm = SZ 11-5

  41.8cm = SZ 11-6    42.1cm = SZ 11-7    42.4cm = SZ 11-8    42.7cm = SZ 11-9

43cm = SZ 12   43.3cm = SZ 12-1   43.6cm = SZ 12-2   43.9cm = SZ 12-3   44.2cm = SZ 12-4   44.5cm = SZ 12-5

  44.8cm = SZ 12-6    45.1cm = SZ 12-7    45.4cm = SZ 12-8    45.7cm = SZ 12-9

WIDTH SIZING

  6cm = AA   6.2cm = AB    6.4cm = AC   6.6cm = AD   6.8cm = AE

  7cm = BA    7.2cm = BB    7.4cm = BC   7.6cm = BD   7.8cm = BE

 

  8cm = CA    8.2cm = CB   8.4cm = CC   8.6cm = CD   8.8cm = CE

  9cm = DA    9.2cm = DB   9.4cm = DC   9.6cm = DD   9.8cm = DE

 

10cm = EA   10.2cm = EB 10.4cm = EC 10.6cm = ED 10.8cm = EE

11cm = FA   11.2cm = FB 11.4cm = FC  11.6cm = FD 11.8cm = FE

 

12cm = GA  12.2cm = GB 12.4cm = GC 12.6cm = GD 12.8cm = GE

13cm = HA  13.2cm = HB 13.4cm = HC  13.6cm = HD 13.8cm = HE

So a toddler's size could look like 1-1AA. A child's size could look like 3-4BB or 4CA. An adult's size could look like 6CC or 12-9HE (which is equivalent to the length of 45.7cm or about 18 inches with a width of 13.8cm or about 5 7/16 inches).

 

I realize there are still factors that have to be addressed, such as the total perimeter across the ball joints of the toes, the different extremes of the foot's arch, the different widths of the foot's heel, and foot deformities and ailments, but may be these could be fixed by inserts of some type.

 

 

I take a 43 and my feet are just under 27cm long.

 

Who do you know who has a foot 18 inches long?

 

That was just what I was going to ask. Even a men's 12UK (EU46) would only be about 28.5 to 29cm or 11.5 inches or so.

 

I think where he went wrong is that he's got 3cm (over an inch) difference in foot length between size 1 and size 2. (10.3 and 13.3 respectively).

[RonC]

The size issue is interesting.  I think to some extent, it has to do with shoe styles.  Most recently, we seem to be heading toward pointy toe boxes after several years of round and almond shapes.  I think maybe the issue is that, as guys, our feet tend to be wider than female feet, so with a more pointed toe box, combined with the added width of the typical male foot, there is less room to, for lack of a better description, slide down into.  I know that for some time I was able to get into Nine West size 11s, but now, I can barely get my foot into them.  But again, the shoes I'm picking are the pointer styles.  I noticed that I can still wear a size 11 in many boots, which typically have a rounder toe box (and seem to run a bit larger overall anywya, but haven't seemed to shrink like the shoes have.)  I think that is why I've had so much trouble with my foot popping out of the back of my shoes as of late, as the true length hasn;t changed, but if I go to the 12 needed to accommodate the width, once they start to loosen up a bit, the length is too great and the heels pop off.  I hate that feeling, as it always seems like I'm going to lose the shoe.  So the real answer is likely wider shoes, and good luck trying to find much that you like in a wide width....lol!

[Histiletto]

The sizing chart was more of a suggestion as I'm fairly sure other charts have been introduced from time to time. Maybe there aren't any people with 18" foot lengths, but this scale would take care of them should it happen. The idea is to make all shoe sizing fit according to the same measuring scale. If you have a foot length of 23.4cm and a width of 8.1cm the chart would let you know that your size is 5-5CB any where on Earth. Mars will have to be explored first to find out if they can adapt to the same chart measurements or if they need it at all. The same goes for the rest of the galaxies.

[ilikekicks]

I often wonder what the scale or conversion chart would look like if all footwear used the same universal measurements and didn't distinguish on a sex bases or age.

I would greatly welcome such a ' standard ' but it wont happen. The metric system isnt as friendly to ' machine ' work as SAE presently is. In the future, it might something to look forward to.

Isnt the ' U.K. ' system for footware somewhat universal? A ' U.K. size 8 ' is the same for both a man and a woman?

[Shyheels]

Yes, UK sizes are unisex. The difficulties come when people try to translate them into other size scales. 

[Bikergoth]

I found that certain UK companies, (Fantasy Shoes for example), did separate female & male sizes. I found that a male UK8 was true to size, but a female UK8, (in exactly the same style), was in reality a size UK7. I also found their female sized boots were very narrow in the feet. It was however nice to discover a company that made ladies shoes/boots in real leather, (not that awful PVC), male sizes & specifically aimed at a male audience.

 

 

Unfortunately Fantasy Shoes ceased trading a number of years ago, but I do believe there's an online company called Penangallen, (based in the Slough area), that was selling off some of their old Fantasy stock the last time I looked, although they like to label it as their own brand. I haven't been on their site for at least two years though, as they let me down big time with an order for a pair of New Rocks...

 

 

I used to be able to wear a female size UK8 comfortably, but like ILK I have noticed that female sizes appear to be 'shrinking' again. My lady bought a pair of River Island ankle boots in a UK8 just before Christmas & I can't even get my feet into them, (never mind zip the buggers up!). This isn't because of pointy toes either as neither myself or my lady are that fond of really pointy toes.

 

 

What we really do need though is some sort of standard sizing as Histiletto suggests...

[LovesHiHeels]

I take New look, Next and Faith as my standard sizing  I am a size 9uk and will take a size 9uk in those brands. Topshop  run small, so a topshop size 9uk will not fit me. Not sure about Aldo.

[Histiletto]

I think where he went wrong is that he's got 3cm (over an inch) difference in foot length between size 1 and size 2. (10.3 and 13.3 respectively).

Yes there is a 3cm difference as you have noted, but the intermediate .3cm size notations (#-#) are just as valid, otherwise the numeral titles of each sizing change would seem really large. If you were to count each sized notation in this system chronologically, the units would total up to 129. Which is also fine. You could then see a sizing of 129HE for the largest possible notation in length and width in this chart, which is merely a suggestion for getting better consistency in shoe size manufacturing for everyone.

[Dr. Shoe]

Yes, UK sizes are unisex. The difficulties come when people try to translate them into other size scales. 

 

Actually no. UK ladies 8 is a 41 whereas male 8's tend to be 42. Some suppliers do list ladies' 8s as 42s but they're in a minority.

Yes there is a 3cm difference as you have noted, but the intermediate .3cm size notations (#-#) are just as valid, otherwise the numeral titles of each sizing change would seem really large. If you were to count each sized notation in this system chronologically, the units would total up to 129. Which is also fine. You could then see a sizing of 129HE for the largest possible notation in length and width in this chart, which is merely a suggestion for getting better consistency in shoe size manufacturing for everyone.

 

Instead of introducing a new size system why not just use measurements?

 

A UK 9 (eu43) could just be a 27cm. You could take care of widths too so you'd be able to get 270x90mm.

[Shafted]

IMO: Sizing may actually be correct for any particular shoe. Toe box shapes may account for the biggest part of perceived differences in sizing. A very pointed toe may feel much smaller than it actually is while overall still sized correctly. 

 

My point is unless all shoes are designed the exact same way, there will always be perceived differences in sizing.

[Dr. Shoe]

But they do vary among styles of the same basic design. It all depends on the last makers.

[Chorlini]

 

I often wonder what the scale or conversion chart would look like if all footwear used the same universal measurements and didn't distinguish on a sex bases or age.

 

A single consistent and universal for everyone? Can't have that kind of heresy, that reeks too much of common sense.

 

If a label's size suddenly changes methinks most likely they probably changed manufacturers.

[mlroseplant]

I agree the system could be more standardized and consistent, but there is still one more variable that can't really be taken into consideration without it being cost prohibitive--toe length. I had to reject a new pair of shoes recently because, although the length and the width were perfect, the point at which the shoe began to slope up to the heel was a severe mismatch for my foot. What a bummer. Even when you win, sometimes you just can't win.

[Histiletto]

Due to the different toe lengths, should the sizing denote the length of the foot at the perpendicular parallel points from the beginning of the heel to the center or furthermost end of the big toe's ball joint, instead of the total length as now measured? Note that the length of the toe ball joint next to the big toe ball joint for some people has the greater distance of the two joints from the heel.  

[RonC]

mlroseplant, I know what you mean about the slope point.  I have found many shoes that "fit" ok in terms of length and width, but my forefoot and arch do not match the point of slope on the shoe, and those tend to be quite uncomfortable.  In many instances, for my foot, I find that the point where the slope begins is too far forward.  As a result, there is no support at all under a portion of my foot that is just behind the base of the big toe (ball of the foot).  With no support or contact with the sole there, my foot tends to slide forward to a much higher degree.  So not only does the shoe lack good support for my foot, but my toes and the area across the ball of the foot are being forced down into the shoe.  Not a good match.  Just recently, there was a pair of chunky heel boots at Payless that were a style that I would have been comfortable with wearing publicly, but that issue arose, even when I went to a smaller size.  So I had to pass on them.  

[Marcel25]

Who do you know who has a foot 18 inches long?

The Sasquatch

[Shyheels]

But he doesn't but shoes.

The only human ever to have feet that big was Robert Wadlow, at 8'11" the tallest person ever recorded. He had feet 18" long, or a size 37 foot.

[Histiletto]

It's just a possible shoe manufacturing size chart that I decided to stop at 18". I could have continued on to 39&3/8" (100cm) or stopped sooner at 12" (30.4cm), since that has been determined a foot.

[Dr. Shoe]

Like I said, why not just use a measurement. I.e. 27cm, 28.5cm

[Histiletto]

Like I said, why not just use a measurement. I.e. 27cm, 28.5cm

Naw! That's too sensibly perfect. We got a think we reinvented a better round thingy called a ring, a sprocket, a washer, a circle, a coin, a ball, a knob, a hula hoop, oh ye-ow a wheel.

[Puffer]

The size issue is interesting.  I think to some extent, it has to do with shoe styles.  Most recently, we seem to be heading toward pointy toe boxes after several years of round and almond shapes.  I think maybe the issue is that, as guys, our feet tend to be wider than female feet, so with a more pointed toe box, combined with the added width of the typical male foot, there is less room to, for lack of a better description, slide down into.  I know that for some time I was able to get into Nine West size 11s, but now, I can barely get my foot into them.  But again, the shoes I'm picking are the pointer styles.  I noticed that I can still wear a size 11 in many boots, which typically have a rounder toe box (and seem to run a bit larger overall anywya, but haven't seemed to shrink like the shoes have.)  I think that is why I've had so much trouble with my foot popping out of the back of my shoes as of late, as the true length hasn;t changed, but if I go to the 12 needed to accommodate the width, once they start to loosen up a bit, the length is too great and the heels pop off.  I hate that feeling, as it always seems like I'm going to lose the shoe.  So the real answer is likely wider shoes, and good luck trying to find much that you like in a wide width....lol!

 

 

IMO: Sizing may actually be correct for any particular shoe. Toe box shapes may account for the biggest part of perceived differences in sizing. A very pointed toe may feel much smaller than it actually is while overall still sized correctly. 

 

My point is unless all shoes are designed the exact same way, there will always be perceived differences in sizing.

 

This is interesting, but to me puzzling as my experience tends to be the opposite.   My feet are about normal width (although with slight hereditary bunions) but with fairly tapered toes.   (My wife, unkindly, calls them "witches' feet".)   I like pointed-toe shoes and have several mens' shoes of this type, which I find fit me well and comfortably.   I find I can sometimes wear a smaller size with a pointed toe than I usually need.  

 

Think about it: the shoe with a pointed toe must be at least as long overall as its rounder equivalent, so the inside space to 'slide into' cannot be shorter, although it may be narrower.   In practice, pointed shoes almost always have extra length to allow for the point (often as much as an inch or so - or nearly 2" in the case of my Miguel Jones boots) and a more pointed foot like mine can 'slide into' this extra length, to the extent that the shoe might then be too long overall.   Maybe there is a typical styling difference betweeen men's and women's pointed shoes, in that men (who are by nature less likely to tolerate an ill-fitting shoe just because they like it, or because they will not admit to the need to go up a size) expect the 'point room' to be extra length whereas women expect (or accept) that it will more likely be at the expense of width at the toe.  

 

I can see that, when a man wears women's pointed shoes, his probably wider foot will indeed potentially need a shoe that has extra length to keep his toes away from the worst constriction - unless the shoe has a less bluntly-tapered point, as some do, which does the job for him (and I think looks better). 

[RonC]

I think that is basically what I meant about the toe box on pointed shoes.  Absolutely, if your foot is more narrow, especially in the toes, you will slide further into the toe box.  My feet are wide, so I have to have enough length to start with or I can;t get them on, especially those with more pointed toes.

[BelleDeMer]

  I buy many of my heels at Nordstrom Rack, and have yet to find any of the Jessica Simpson Size US 11 that will fit ( for shame) , but any of the Enzo Angiolini heels in the same size slip on like a dream.... making Enzo my current favorite, as I have three different pairs. Also Nickels, which are available from Famous Footwear make a nice fitting size 11, but their shoes aren't nearly as exciting