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Lived in the UK all my life and only ever walked out due to failed service on 2 or 3 occasions.

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2 hours ago, p1ng74 said:

I wonder if some of the difference is due to different operational procedures in restaurants.  Typically, in the US, when you are seated at a restaurant, you get assigned a server.  That server becomes individually responsible for your restaurant experience, and earning the tip.  I noticed in the UK, it was more or what we would call team serving.  When well run, this has the added benefit for the customer of being able to ask any of the servers for anything, rather than trying to hunt down your individual server.  However, we did also find ourselves in a couple of establishments where this was a total failure, and it didn't take long for us to realize that we were never going to get served, and so we left.  It's been years since I have found it necessary to leave a restaurant due to service - it tends not to happen in the US because if you leave, it reflects personally on the server and they tend to try to make things right rather than see you leave unhappy.  

 

I’d say you just had bad luck. It happens, but not often. Rarely in fact., in my experience. 

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That high tip system works in the US for sure. 

It doesn’t in France and most of European countries. It did in the past when the salary was low and the tip was the most important part of the income. 

In Japan: no tip.people would feel offended. And a perfect service. 

All different mentalities and education. 

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Posted (edited)

In the U.S. table waiters are still paid under min wage or just above. In Europe life is easier for lower wage workers and tips are built in.  Most Americans don't get that concept which makes us easy prey so to speak. Same with cruise ships only tip at the end.

U.S. has poor or almost unaffordable health coverage for lower income folks, not the case in either Europe or Japan. 

In the U.S. even social security is based on wages, the more you make the more you get.

I have no problem not giving ss to undocumented workers because they are not paying into the system in the 1st place. You don't get to play if you don't contribute, simple.  But I'm a just above middle class wage earner and feel it's not quite fair for the less wage fortunate. S.S. tax in the U.S. is not scaled based on wage. 17.5% off the top, even pre 401k contribution. This makes retirement saving way more difficult for lower income folks. 

I do believe income and retirement should not be equal, but should be less punitive than it is now. After all if i invest cash and years of my life into higher education then i should be ahead of those who don't, if not why would i bother. 

Long 2 cents.

Edited by Jkrenzer
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Posted (edited)

It makes me wonder what my shoe closet would look like if I had bought Apple stock when it was $10.....

Edited by Cali
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7 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I’d say you just had bad luck. It happens, but not often. Rarely in fact., in my experience. 

I agree, and it did not diminish from the fact that we thoroughly enjoyed eating at all the different places I visited on our trip to London.  We were mostly eating out twice a day for a week straight, and just picking places nearby based on where we happened to be, without any real advanced planning.  We were bound to end up at the wrong place and the wrong time every now and then.  

 

3 hours ago, Jkrenzer said:

I do believe income and retirement should not be equal, but should be less punitive than it is now. After all if i invest cash and years of my life into higher education then i should be ahead of those who don't, if not why would i bother. 

Rewarding hard work ahead of those who don’t?  I’m down with that.  Unfortunately I don’t see how SS will have any money left by the time I get to retirement age.  Guess I’ll have to work harder :)  

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8 hours ago, p1ng74 said:

I agree, and it did not diminish from the fact that we thoroughly enjoyed eating at all the different places I visited on our trip to London.  We were mostly eating out twice a day for a week straight, and just picking places nearby based on where we happened to be, without any real advanced planning.  We were bound to end up at the wrong place and the wrong time every now and then.  

 

Rewarding hard work ahead of those who don’t?  I’m down with that.  Unfortunately I don’t see how SS will have any money left by the time I get to retirement age.  Guess I’ll have to work harder :)  

Social Security will have money indefinitely, just maybe not as much money. I can see a scenario where benefits eventually get cut to say, 75% of what they are now. It's a little worrisome, but not the end of the world for me. I'm probably not ever going to fully retire anyway, as long as I can still climb a ladder. What worries me a good deal more is how I'm going to look as a 75 year old dude in heels.

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On 10/4/2019 at 4:17 PM, at9 said:

Service charge in the UK is typically between 10% and 15% though many restaurants don't add it. Then it's up to the customer to tip. Remember that service charge is levied on the price after sales tax (VAT). VAT is always included in the menu/sticker price so you don't see that you're being charged 20% VAT in the UK. In the US, sales tax is added at the till or on the bill.

Personally I'd prefer the Japanese culture of no tipping at all. Failing that I'd like to choose to tip. In theory, service charges are optional in the UK. But to demand that it be removed from the bill is something that rarely happens.

Unless a clearly-specified 'service charge' is shown on the menu before ordering, it cannot lawfully be charged.   And, even if it is correctly added, it can be challenged (reduced/removed) if the 'service' was deficient.   I agree that such a removal is rarely sought (or indeed necessary), but the better solution, as you say, is to outlaw mandatory/expected tipping and leave this entirely to the customer's discretion as a means of rewarding exceptional service - as we are all entitled to expect good service as an included part of the deal.   (I'm thinking here of service and tipping in all business activity - reastaurants, taxis, hairdressers, etc.)

On 10/4/2019 at 5:26 PM, at9 said:

Lived in the UK all my life and only ever walked out due to failed service on 2 or 3 occasions.

Likewise: a couple of occasions when a very long wait for order-taking or food arrival was totally ridiculous and another occasion when cold and poorly-prepared food was served.   There have been a very few times too when, having entered an establishment without looking properly at the menu, I have walked out on realising that nothing on offer  (or its pricing) was to my liking - my fault and best corrected immediately. 

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