What's More Difficult To Get Away With?

[Curt]

Is it easier to just wear heels, or other clothes that are clearly womens going out? I have no problem wearing heels, I wear them every day. Yesterday I wore running shoes and felt pretty naked without the heels. Could a guy get away with wearing yoga pants out and about? The tight lululemon groove pants the girls wear to starbucks and to the gym. A lot of guys here wear leggings, is it any different. I wear them to the gym all the time. No weird looks or anything. Maybe because I work out well. Sort of like a track star! I was in the elevator later, and an old guy just looked at me in an evil way. I didn't say anything. I was thinking, you can dress the way you want, if they don't like it, they can screw themselves. Any others pissed off that we aren't allowed to have the freedom to dress the way the women do?

[Shafted]

I think it's easier to wear heels with clothing that best flatters your form and appearance. Doesn't matter what side of the store it comes from if it obeys that rule (mine probably). It's hard to knock a guy in high heels when he looks good doing it. Sharp but not too over the top is my motto. It's a recipe for high confidence.

[Heelster]

That;s a pretty common complaint on this forum, If you can wear what you want, go for it.

[Curt]

Great advice Heelster! I'm going to wear what makes me happy. I look amazing in lululemons, and they are very comfortable. Not with heels though, just lifting weights and running. That's what they are meant for anyway!

[ilikekicks]

Is it easier to just wear heels, or other clothes that are clearly womens going out?

It depends on the individual and how they carry/present themselves. They arent ' womens ' clothes. They are the owners clothes.. the person whom purchased/acquired them.

Sort of like a track star! I was in the elevator later, and an old guy just looked at me in an evil way. I didn't say anything. I was thinking, you can dress the way you want, if they don't like it, they can screw themselves.

Your not a star, your not a celebrity, and with that attitude and what you wear, you would probably get bashed or tormented/harassed in some of the places I have been to. Its a lesson *I* have learned quite well.

Heres why :

Any others pissed off that we aren't allowed to have the freedom to dress the way the women do?

I DO HAVE the freedom to dress however I want. JeffB struts all over Philly the way he wishes to. Kneehighs wears what he wishes all over the planet. Shafted works a day-job in some nicely heeled boots..

You COULD wear what you wished ( and you should ) but you honestly need to loose the ' princess ' attitude ' Ashley '. It doesnt work when people are trying to gain acceptance.

You have your ' rights ' and ' freedoms ' but when you tell someone ( or believe they need ) to ' go screw yourself ' , you should expect they might.. retaliate on some level. They might even push back on you the same way your trying to be a mental bully in your own mind. In either instance, your 1 step forward yet still 2 steps behind, loosing ground.

You need to LEARN that acceptance comes to INDIVIDUALS, not causes nor ' groups ' because one might have a certain mindset.

Maybe instead of thinking how people can ' go screw themselves ', you should think " you can dress the way you want, if they don't like it, they are irrelevant and dont decide what I wear anyway ".

You have posted many topics like this in theme, yet there are a couple of us ( a growing number actually ) without any problems at all. We dont feel were lacking any ' freedoms ' of anykind. *I* dont feel discriminated against or pushed aside or the need to go tell someone in an elevator to go screw themselves.

More times then not, I would rather try and start a discussion to show such an individual that ' im just like you but with better shoes on my feet '. Wanting them to go screw themselves doesnt allow for honest conversation.

Have you ever considered that maybe its your own insecurity as the problem not others?

[Steve63130]

Pumpcat, While ILK was pretty blunt in the above post, I do agree with him on a couple of issues. Calling yourself "Ashley" is a silly way of saying "I'm insecure and to feel more like I belong in high heels I'm going to be more feminine." It's really not at all necessary, and in fact it's counterproductive. You've posted pics of yourself and we can see you look great in heels as a guy. Why the charade as a "woman?" Wave good-bye to Ashley and be proud to be a guy - in good looking heels, with other clothes that compliment the look. C'mon, man, you deserve better. Lose the attitude of "screw them." The great unwashed masses don't need confrontation and neither do you. Your cause would be far more effective to be an educator. Take the time to introduce yourself and show them that you're a confident guy and you like to wear heels. Show them you walk well in them, look good in them, and you're very comfortable not only in heels, but comfortable with yourself. Smile. Be courteous. Be an ambassador for our cause. Win them over. Your victory will be sweet. Steve

[Shafted]

I have to admit Pumpcat. I love your look for a fashion forward guy. It's a nice mix of vintage and modern. I like it, it works, it reflects your personality. Sometimes being comfortable in our own skin is about playing the cards we were dealt. I think we both understand fashion not as trends, but as to what works and flatters what we do have. BTW: You look like you were actually dealt a tremendous hand as a fashion conscious guy.

[Thighbootguy]

Could a guy get away with wearing yoga pants out and about?

I've worn them out and about for a couple of years. They are extreemly comfortable, and look good. I currently prefer black leggings but I still wear yoga pants on occasion. I wear the over and under boots. They are a great alternative to jeans.

[JeffB]

Pumpcat: Why worry about what you can or can't get away with? All that does is needlessly burn up brain cells, definitely not worth the bother. Just go ahead and wear what you want, where and when you want, and if that sounds overly simplistic, well, yeah, it is. When I wander hither and yon in a skirt and heels, the last thing I wonder about is if I'm "getting away" with anything, because I don't care if I am, I'm just wearing the clothes and shoes that I like, easy as that. So, just put aside any concerns you might have, put on the clothes you like and go have some fun! Life is too damn short to worry!

[aussieheels1]

I have to back Pumpcat up on this thread... i understand and agree with what the other is saying that it's more to do with one's confidence than whether Men is "allowed" to wear heels. But I have the same insecurity as pumpcat has and go through phases where I can go get petrol in my heels and skinny jeans and singlet top and then the very next day I would be worried about whether my skinny jeans are too skinny and people would know that they are girls jeans. I want to be able to ignore the world perceptions and wear what I want (and I can hear the posts after mine saying I;m an idiot and I should be able to do this), but the reality is we all have different lives with different relationships and interactions where this may not be possible (again this might be a state of mind). While there are quite a few of you on the forum that are completely comfortable in their own skin and have the confidence to wear whatever they want all the time, I think for each one of you there are 100 who are concern and does not have the same confidence.... that's why we are on here looking for support.... I love this forum and have always been around for inspiration and support but some of those comments may put pumpcat off from further posting on here asking for advice... and I think that's a lost for lots of people who may not be posting but are lurking as they are not sure how to handle their feelings towards their desire to wear heels..... btw pumpcat.. in answering your original question.... for me, I think it's easier to get away un-noticed for wearing certain "female" clothing items as compare to heels.... i wear girls skinny jeans, yoga pants, shorts and pants all the time and have many girls singlets (which are longer and have racing or strappy back)... unless they are extremely feminine (eg lot of lace or it's a skirt or dress) most people don't know their fashion enough to notice.... whereas (in my mind) heels are a clear stand out as people in general have a black and white line as to who wear heels.....

[Shafted]

Easy guys, it's just Pumpcat livening up the forum again with some new topics. Does anybody think Pumpcat doesn't wear what he wants? I think he wears what he wants and looks damn good doing it.

[ilikekicks]

But I have the same insecurity as pumpcat has and go through phases where I can go get petrol in my heels and skinny jeans and singlet top and then the very next day I would be worried about whether my skinny jeans are too skinny and people would know that they are girls jeans.

Knowing such.. you will go out in heels and skinny jeans..

I want to be able to ignore the world perceptions and wear what I want (and I can hear the posts after mine saying I;m an idiot and I should be able to do this),

Your not an idiot at all. You just need to realize you have ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED and overcame your fears and insecurities. You just need to realize/understand/recognize/comprehend such in your own mind.

but the reality is we all have different lives with different relationships and interactions where this may not be possible (again this might be a state of mind).

It is a state of mind, no doubt. You are 100% correct.

While there are quite a few of you on the forum that are completely comfortable in their own skin and have the confidence to wear whatever they want all the time, I think for each one of you there are 100 who are concern and does not have the same confidence.... that's why we are on here looking for support....

I support people wearing what they wish to wear. What I dont support is when a guy wishes to insinuate/lead on that they are a woman.

I love this forum and have always been around for inspiration and support but some of those comments may put pumpcat off from further posting on here asking for advice... and I think that's a lost for lots of people who may not be posting but are lurking as they are not sure how to handle their feelings towards their desire to wear heels.....

You mentioned above that this is all in the mind. You are 100% correct. WIth having such in ' mind ' , there also requires ' action ' on ones part.

The BEST advice anyone will ever see on this forum is to just ' go out wearing heels '. Go do what you wish and enjoy it.

Know your limits, respect yourself ( and others ) and you WILL find peace with how you feel. If a man walks out with greasy jeans, a dirty t-shirt and cruddy socks/shoes and smells, they will garner more attention then I ever would wearing a skirt and heels. ( unproven theory on my part as I didnt take notes when it happened, but I bet the assumption is correct ).

Theres only so many times you can tell the same person/people the same things and they just wont make the moves on their own. Drunks/Alcoholics and substance abusers are stated to have an addiction when its really not an 'addiction', its a mindset or thought process.

With a drunk, you can tell them over and over till your out of breathe that what they are doing isnt healthy, harms others.. yet they continually go out and do the same thing. Its almost as if they are obsessive compulsive. The same can happen when you tell people ' just wear what you want and go outside! ' and they never do.

I say this hoping those whom have their doubts actually realize that its up to THEM to take action and follow their desires. Nobody posting on any message forum; no words; no cheering will be of any good endless they are willing to follow their own thoughts.

There are MANY people whom came to the conclusion of ' ya know.. Im just gonna go out.. ' and they came home and posted their ' jaunt ', their ' escapade ' or their ' adventure ' here.

My origins in heeling came from doing gigs on halloween. I was dating a woman whom was into the rave scene and was a bit different then what most would call ' normal '. She was into the whole ' goth ' world/entity. After she was gone and I was left with a lot of shoes, I later met a woman whom was ( again ) ' different ' then most and encouraged me to wear them. My thought? ' why not '. So we sort of dated and went out on local ' jaunts ' ( sorry for infringing on your copywrite JeffB ) to diners, places to eat, hockey games, tourist attractions, malls.. I realized theres absolutely NOTHING different if I wear a pair of sneakers or a pair of thigh boots. ' Wherever you go.. there you are '. Your no different a person for the clothes you wear.

Easy guys, it's just Pumpcat livening up the forum again with some new topics. Does anybody think Pumpcat doesn't wear what he wants? I think he wears what he wants and looks damn good doing it.

What Im trying to put into perspective is ' what kind of clothing are we wearing? '. The question stated was :

Is it easier to just wear heels, or other clothes that are clearly womens going out?

I dont own any ' womens clothes '. I dont own any ' male clothes '. I dont own any ' male ' cars or trucks. I dont own any female ones either. I own and wear whats ' mine '.

Thats one of the core things that really ( bold saying here ) pisses me off. The pair of jeans laying on the floor next to me right now. Are those ' womens ' jeans or ' mens ' jeans ? Neither, they are my jeans. When Darian came in to bitch at me for being a slob her exact statement was ' Hey nipplehead! Quit being lazy and pick your dirty clothes up off the floor! ', note/emphasis on the word ' your '.

The only way people will overcome their inhibitions or fears is to just take ownership of them and control them. Realize they dont run your life and if they do, its because you let them.

To quote Felonious Monk from youtube " Stop it B! ".

[aussieheels1]

ilikekicks - there's nothing you are saying I disagree with, but knowing something and then being able to carry through with doing it is 2 different things.... I think we all agree and know that the whole gender based clothing is a state of mind.... what makes something more feminine and masculine is simply dictated by some designer or general perception/acceptance of an idea.... but we all live in this world with these pre conceived roles which everyone use as a guide to live by.... most of us are brought up to believe that these stereo type is an accurate reflection of how things should be.... it's very hard to break this "state of mind" and be free of it...... I really do wish i'm brave enough, strong enough, to ignore these conventions but most of us have the need to belong and don't want to be an outcast... further more we all have fears of loosing whatever social structure you have already acquired in their stage of life.... i know these may all be seen as excuses but they are the reasons why it's often not as simple as just do it..... I admire a lot of the posters on this forum and how they have manage to integrate their heels desires to their everyday life and I think you guys are much braver men than i ever will be.... i hope i'm not putting a downer on here but it's actually feels good to actually type this out to better understand myself... and maybe others might feels the same....

[Dr. Shoe]

It's all about comfort zone. If you do one little thing each day to push the envelope then you will soon be wearing exactly what you want. No one who has never worn heels before will put on 5" stilettos and go to town on the bus but they might put on 2" heels, then 2.5", then 3" then a heel that's a little skinnier etc... I'm not sure what "yoga pants" are but they're obviously like leggings. If this is the case and you wear leggings then you'll be fine in yoga pants. There is no such thing as jeans that are "too skinny" but if you have a day where you have an anxiety about wearing them then wear something else and push the envelope a different way!

[yozz]

I really do wish i'm brave enough, strong enough, to ignore these conventions but most of us have the need to belong and don't want to be an outcast... further more we all have fears of loosing whatever social structure you have already acquired in their stage of life.... i know these may all be seen as excuses but they are the reasons why it's often not as simple as just do it.....

Let me add a good example to it, to illustrate the difference between theory and practice.

Assume you are a university professor, well known in your field (not super famous, but rather capable). You have worked together for your research with people in many countries etc.

So one day you show up like JeffB in his outings: high heels, hose and a skirt. Of course there is nothing that forbids that, and it does not directly prevent you from doing your work. So it should be OK. Or???

The next thing that will happen is that around the world, everybody who knows you will hear about it and start gossiping that you have finally cracked. That is not yet that bad. The bad part comes with your next grant request when you ask for money for a few graduate students or postdocs. Such requests are for a big part judged by the reputation of the principle investigator. And at that moment you have suffered quite some damage and you may not get the money (there is much competition).

In conclusion:

a: you wear what you would like.

b: some graduate students who would like to work with you would have to look for another job.

That makes it in my eyes not worth doing.

Probably other people can come up with even better cases where in principle everything should be fine but.....

Y.

[Impala]

Not working in heels doesn't mean that you can't openly wear heels. If you come outside in heels in your free time, during shopping trips or visiting stuff, nobody has the right to take away your privileges. I think if you're in a postition like a university professor, who is supposed to be a good example to students, wearing heels would seem a totally bad idea at all. It's just not going to work. On the other hand, if you're sitting behind a desk programming or working with data, you have less responsibility for how you present yourself. Moral: Think about where you want to go in heels, if it would be a good idea. Clever decisions will help you avoid negative confrontations.

[Steve63130]

yozz, I understand what you're saying, but that's moving from one end of the spectrum to the other instantly. It doesn't have to be like that. You could move so slowly, say over the course of 2-3 years, to adopt some styles of unisex heels that hardly anyone would notice or comment on. Pushing the envelope slowly rarely gets noticed, whereas jumping from men's flat shoes to 6" platform stilettos is a major change. Steve

[freestyle75]

First of all, to everyone who cannot picture how the groove pants pumpcat mentioned look like (well... I couldn't, because they do have a different name here in Germany), here's a picture of them:

Back to the question what's more difficult to get away with: It depends.

First of all - as others have mentioned - it depends on WHERE you want to get away with it. I work at a financial services company, so no matter what type of non-standard attire I would wear to work, I could never get away with it. No part of the wardrobe I wear to work has been "borrowed" from the female side of the department store. I do draw a clear line there, as I expect others to dress professionally, and know that they expect the same from me. No matter how much we can debate whether people should be more open minded, there are certain rules in one's job if you want to keep the same.

In my leisure time, I do think it's different though. "Getting away with it" is merely a function of my own confidence, how much I want to wear a certain item today, and where I go. If I visit friends from work, I don't wear heels. If I go shopping in the city nearby, I am still nearly a one hour drive away from the place I work. I feel reasonably safe to go out in whatever I like.

In my opinion, when you start mixing things from the men's and womenswear section of the department store, you will reach a tipping point at which there is no getting away with it in the meaning of not being spotted as wearing something feminine. This became quite obvious to myself when I was shopping a few weeks ago, wearing jeggings, knee-high brown boots (not much of a heel) and a long puffer coat. I had seen a female summer jacket that I really liked, which was shorter than the usual men's jackets and fitted. I tried it on, looked in the mirror and thought "oops... now you look like a girl" - I had gone over this magic tipping point - from my own point of view. For the casual onlooker, my outfit even without the shorter jacket might already have been over the edge.

I think as a general rule, you have to think about how obvious the cues are you are giving. Let's assume you would wear these boots:

Just a random example - 2 1/4 inch heel height, not a men's boot anymore, but a pretty tomboy-type of boot for a girl. Assuming that you would wear this with a jeans like the boot-cut jeans here...

In that case, you would have a mix where most people don't notice your boots. First, the way you walk doesn't change because of the heel height/type, second, the jeans are men's jeans that have a relaxed fit.

Now imagine the same pair of boots, but wearing skinny jeans. No hiding of the heel - but still, due to the shoe type, something one could get away with, depending on how the jeans look like. The higher and more narrow the heel gets, the more difficult it will be to get away with it.

But even without wearing heels, clothing provides certain cues. Women's jeans often fit more snugly than men's and are showing off your figure. Women's pants often don't have pockets, or use an invisible zipper without a fly. Or have two buttons above the zipper instead of one. The zipper also opens to the other direction, although it seems that jeans manufacturers nowadays often don't pay attention to that.

Jackets often have darts, and even if they don't, the buttons / button holes are swapped left/right. When I had bought a narrow fitted (women's) coat which had no cues at all besides the button placement, I got still spotted by a female colleague when I had worn it to my former company one day. We were all going to have lunch outside, most men wearing similar coats, but with all buttons on the men's side. I saw my colleague's eyes dance between the jacket of a colleague of mine and myself, and she started smiling. Later she told me "your new coat is a women's one, didn't you notice? can you still give it back?" - she thought I had bought it by mistake.

I guess the more we read in forums like these, the more our own view on what we can get away with and what we cannot changes. We will still get spotted, even if we think we don't - no matter whether you are wearing heels, women's groove pants (by all means, wear them if you have the figure!), or other stuff.

Just don't worry too much about whether you will be spotted or not - in doubt, people have spotted you already without you even noticing it.

[yozz]

yozz,

I understand what you're saying, but that's moving from one end of the spectrum to the other instantly. It doesn't have to be like that. You could move so slowly, say over the course of 2-3 years, to adopt some styles of unisex heels that hardly anyone would notice or comment on. Pushing the envelope slowly rarely gets noticed, whereas jumping from men's flat shoes to 6" platform stilettos is a major change.

Steve

And then somebody comes to visit your university who has not seen you in three years and the stories will start nevertheless.

It is just that you carry some responsibilities, and by going too far off the main track you may not make the best of your capabilities and you will function 'sub-optimally'.

It is not about what you can do rightfully. It is about how you can do what you would like, without messing up your potential.

By the way. In the USA: fewer grants -> less salary. They never have to mention your clothes or rights for that.

It is just an example. I am sure there are many more.

Y.

[Histiletto]

Where there is no sacrifice, no gain can be expected. We (Male Heelers) are closer to achieving the open use of high heels in our wardrobes, than at any other time in the history of the world. Even in most of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, when the men of these eras were noted for wearing heels, much of the high heeling was confined to the aristocratic rulers, the wealthy merchants, the landowners, and/or warrior horsemen. Such footwear was quite expensive and many cobblers didn't have the right skills or access to the materials needed to fill the demands. With the age of mass production perfected in the twentieth century, shoes of good quality became available for most everyone. However, the attitude of society no longer supported the wearing of high heels for men, even though there were men who still had the desire. Had these men been more open about their wearing of heels, perhaps society would have been more lenient towards this practice. Another factor that steered the minds of society away was the design and styling of high heels gave this footwear the look desired by and for women to wear, which promoted the idea that heels were made for women only. In this atmosphere, it became impossible for men to be considered men if they donned a pair of heels. Many of the men who did venture to wear heels, did it for the sake of comedy or female impersonation. The societal attitude has become more enlightened as to the possibility of men wearing heels again. With the internet at our finger tips, people are able to see example of men in heels and they can read the threads or sites about this topic. There are negative comments for high heeled men, but there are also encouraging and positive comments by even those who support a person's agency to make their own decisions as to what they want to wear. Men heeling openly as men is within our grasp if we will make the right sacrifices and show some solidarity in this cause. Yes there is a climb still, but in heels it is easier to go up , if we can stay the course.

[Shafted]

You and I seem to see things the same way on this matter. Histiletto. The ball is in our court and has been for quite a while. Life is too short to wait.

[Histiletto]

Hey! Shafted, If nothing else, the world we live in can see men in heels.

[ilikekicks]

ilikekicks - there's nothing you are saying I disagree with, but knowing something and then being able to carry through with doing it is 2 different things.... I think we all agree and know that the whole gender based clothing is a state of mind.... what makes something more feminine and masculine is simply dictated by some designer or general perception/acceptance of an idea.... but we all live in this world with these pre conceived roles which everyone use as a guide to live by.... most of us are brought up to believe that these stereo type is an accurate reflection of how things should be.... it's very hard to break this "state of mind" and be free of it......

Im not the smartest nor ' most overeducated ' or ' superior intellectual ', and such a state of mind is ' hard to break '?

I really do wish i'm brave enough, strong enough, to ignore these conventions but most of us have the need to belong and don't want to be an outcast...

I have many friends, family, associates, former customers.. I relate and converse/meet with them quite often. I was never ' outcast '. There ARE other possibilities besides believing in the misery of everything

further more we all have fears of loosing whatever social structure you have already acquired in their stage of life.... i know these may all be seen as excuses but they are the reasons why it's often not as simple as just do it.....

If ANYONE has a fear of loosing their ' social structure ' or where they are on the ' social food chain ' because of a pair of footware, they have more to worry about then what they put on their feet.

Seriously people ( honest question here.. ), are there THAT many people out there that really have such fears running their lives?

I admire a lot of the posters on this forum and how they have manage to integrate their heels desires to their everyday life and I think you guys are much braver men than i ever will be....

Im not any more brave then the next person. I just realize its a pair of shoes.

i hope i'm not putting a downer on here but it's actually feels good to actually type this out to better understand myself... and maybe others might feels the same....

Dont feel down, just go out and be free.

[Curt]

I guess I'm not helping our cause for men wearing heels very well. It just seems that heels like better with other femme clothes with it. We can put my gender issues aside for a minute and focus on the topic. Ilk was talking about taking gender completely out of the clothes. I'm all for that, we should wear what we like and feel comfortable in. The only problem I have is: why do others make us feel bad about ourselves just because they don't approve of what we are wearing? You guys are right, if someone doesn't like what I'm wearing, then I can't worry about that. The most important thing is that I like it myself, after all I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't like it. Just for the record, if I somehow turned into a girl tomorrow, I wouldn't reverse it. That's how I feel. Just let me have a feminine name to match how I feel inside. End of sermon. I can't believe how many responses I got with this thread! I'm just trying to come up with new topics and keep things interesting. The thing with yoga pants is, I like tight pants and flare legs. This way I can look cool even when working out. Anyone else find that its hard to run or rollerblade in baggy sweats? I don't like shorts too much, and tights make me look too skinny. But its not really about trying to get away with a certain acticle of clothing. Just wear it if you like it. If not, then you are too concerned about how people percieve you. I like to dress the way I want, but I think I'm too concerned about acceptance from others. I have to accept myself. Sorry for the long post, once I start writing, I can't stop!

[Shafted]

The only problem I have is: why do others make us feel bad about ourselves just because they don't approve of what we are wearing?

I have to admit I really picked up on this part of your post.

People can only make you feel bad if you permit it. You are in control of the situation from the moment you put on your heels. That's the mindset you must have.

[Curt]

Thanks Stafted!

[Dr. Shoe]

Let me add a good example to it, to illustrate the difference between theory and practice.

Assume you are a university professor, well known in your field (not super famous, but rather capable). You have worked together for your research with people in many countries etc.

So one day you show up like JeffB in his outings: high heels, hose and a skirt. Of course there is nothing that forbids that, and it does not directly prevent you from doing your work. So it should be OK. Or???

The next thing that will happen is that around the world, everybody who knows you will hear about it and start gossiping that you have finally cracked. That is not yet that bad. The bad part comes with your next grant request when you ask for money for a few graduate students or postdocs. Such requests are for a big part judged by the reputation of the principle investigator. And at that moment you have suffered quite some damage and you may not get the money (there is much competition).

In conclusion:

a: you wear what you would like.

b: some graduate students who would like to work with you would have to look for another job.

That makes it in my eyes not worth doing.

Probably other people can come up with even better cases where in principle everything should be fine but.....

Y.

To be honest, I do think that an awful lot of you guys "overdo" it to the extreme.

I think the safest thing you can do is to "keep it a bit real". If you wear a skirt, then why not wear dress like a guy in all other respects? I know this is boring to some but it's all about the comfort zone thing again.

Yes, Jeff B has a style that is all of his own but sometimes if I go on meets some of the guys turn up are an embarrassment. I mean, they wear combinations that not even the most outrageous girl would wear and stuff that don't even look good together like gold hotpants and silver thigh boots!

I'm all for fashion freedom but there is a fine line between being stylish like Jeff B and looking ridiculous.

[Jamie001]

Not working in heels doesn't mean that you can't openly wear heels. If you come outside in heels in your free time, during shopping trips or visiting stuff, nobody has the right to take away your privileges.

I think if you're in a postition like a university professor, who is supposed to be a good example to students, wearing heels would seem a totally bad idea at all. It's just not going to work. On the other hand, if you're sitting behind a desk programming or working with data, you have less responsibility for how you present yourself.

Moral: Think about where you want to go in heels, if it would be a good idea. Clever decisions will help you avoid negative confrontations.

Why would wearing heels be a bad example to students? It would teach students that we don't need to be confined to the gender specific boxes that society has created for us. Women wear masculine shoes all of time and it is not a big deal. I believe that we create a lot of these demons in our own minds. I don't see why a university professor couldn't wear heels as long as they are not outrages hooker heels or something equally impractical.

[ilikekicks]

To be honest, I do think that an awful lot of you guys "overdo" it to the extreme. I think the safest thing you can do is to "keep it a bit real".

Thus why you wont see me in Jackstands/hookershoes/pleasers.. I like certain shoes, its not a fetish. Im not a pole/lap dancer at some cheap club. If I *were* a Pole dancer ( Wont happen! No skill! No skates or a puck.. no wrenches involved.. not for me! ), it would be at a place where Amanda Snake couldnt afford the admission/door price!

Then again, If I turn sideways, I might be mistaken for the pole itself..

If you wear a skirt, then why not wear dress like a guy in all other respects? I know this is boring to some but it's all about the comfort zone thing again. Yes, Jeff B has a style that is all of his own but sometimes if I go on meets some of the guys turn up are an embarrassment.

( Thats a good theme for a song, might have to look into it! ) You are correct though. If I were to go to a heels meet, I would expect people to be wearing heels or certain clothes.. not something like drag queens though. I wouldnt expect the meet to be a cross section of Comicon or a Cosplay theme.

I mean, they wear combinations that not even the most outrageous girl would wear and stuff that don't even look good together like gold hotpants and silver thigh boots! I'm all for fashion freedom but there is a fine line between being stylish like Jeff B and looking ridiculous.

What your mentioning directly relates to what Pumpcat has encountered. ' Perception '. " Whats more difficult to get away with? " is this threads theme.. Whos looking to get away with anything? We put on some clothes and wear them.. out the door we go on our adventures/jaunts/excursions..

[freestyle75]

What your mentioning directly relates to what Pumpcat has encountered. ' Perception '. " Whats more difficult to get away with? " is this threads theme.. Whos looking to get away with anything? We put on some clothes and wear them.. out the door we go on our adventures/jaunts/excursions..

@llikekicks / Dr. Shoe:

Perception is in the eye of the beholder, they say. Nonetheless, I strongly agree with Dr. Shoe. How often do you see women doing their grocery shopping in 5 inch stiletto heels, or wearing outfits during daytime that regular hookers would wear? Well, not so often. I've noticed that especially guys who discover any sort of forbidden fruit (whether it's heels, pantyhose, or whatever you can think of), tend to go over the top.

If we want to gain acceptance for men wearing heels (or skirts, or whatever), we should make sure to take a deep breath and do a sanity check before walking out of the house. Is this outfit appropriate to where I am going or what I want to do?

ilikekicks, don't get me wrong. From what I've read from your end, none of what I just mentioned applies. Nonetheless, I think many overdo it, just like Dr Shoe wrote. I think the question that was asked by pumpcat was exactly what this is about - where is the fine line that shouldn't be crossed?

I think it's difficult to define that line. Dr Shoe - you are saying that Jeff B is stylish. Suppose I would take one of his pictures and show it to a random number of people who are not visiting this site, but maybe a forum on DIY home repair. How many do you think would vote that the photo is stylish, and how many would vote for ridiculous? (Sorry, Jeff, I could also have referred to my own picture in kilt + boots)

Personaly, I know that if I go out on the street with heels, I will definitely get into someones comfort zone. Even with my 2 1/2 inch heeled men's shoes from Dior, I got into someone elses comfort zone (telling me that only a pop star should wear something like this).

So - nowadays when I go out, the only question I ask myself is whether a woman in my age, with my figure that wants to go where I am going and wants to do what I want to do would wear something similar. Even then, there are things that I still consider too feminine, but that's my personal opinion. If someone still considers my outfit to be too far in his comfort zone, well... I try not to care. If I cared all the time, I would no longer be wearing heels. Today I was wearing this brown puffer coat , petrol colored turtleneck, blue jeggings and these brown knee-high boots, and a girl looked at me like this: *sigh* well... I know that the outfit as such looked ok, but I guess I was in her comfort zone...