What Makes a Stiletto a Stiletto?

[Shyheels]

There is no knuckleball in cricket 

[Cali]

1 hour ago, Shyheels said:

There is no knuckleball in cricket 

Better tell Zaheer Khan then.😄

[Shyheels]

I expect he already knows. He was a pace and seam bowler, with a good outswinger.

i think there is a reasonable chance I know more about cricket than you

Edited January 11, 2022 by Shyheels

[Isolathor]

And Cricket is played in high heels, especially stilettos? 🤔

[Shyheels]

Not as a rule, no

[Isolathor]

17 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

Not as a rule, no

Not even from womens teams? 😥

[Shyheels]

Afraid not. They'd mess up the pitch too much running back and forth between the wickets!

Edited January 11, 2022 by Shyheels

[Isolathor]

That is a pity! 😪

[Shyheels]

Perhaps they could be introduced in athletics - the long jump would be especially interesting in stilettos. 

[Isolathor]

Let´s check which sports could be done in heels (stilettos)! 🤩

[nyenor]

I'd like to see women playing ANY sport in stilettoes. What a sight that would be. Tennis might be fun or how about high heeled ice skating?

[Shyheels]

Weight lifting. Can’t you just see a super heavyweight struggling to clean and jerk 245kg, staggering forward on his five-inch heels, and the judges falling all over themselves scrambling to get clear 

[Puffer]

8 hours ago, Cali said:

Sorry my bad stereotype, I thought EVERY Brit knew and was required to played cricket in school.  ...

A fair assumption, if not entirely correct.   Being 'required' (or even just 'expected') to play cricket or any other sport in school does not automatically lead to any interest or skill in or more than the most rudimentary knowledge of the game.   In my case, I have no interest or ability in any form of sport (as player, spectator or follower) and prefer to channel my time and whatever skill and energy I have into constructive and academic pursuits.   But my two adult sons are both keen footballers in an amateur team and I had a great uncle who played rugby union for England ...

23 minutes ago, nyenor said:

I'd like to see women playing ANY sport in stilettoes. What a sight that would be. Tennis might be fun or how about high heeled ice skating?

From my limited observation of ice skating on TV, it seems to me that both men's and women's skating boots have a 'high' heel, not unlike a Cuban.   This must be intentional (much as with men's Latin American dance shoes) and could quite possibly be increased to 3" or even more.   I wonder what difference it would make; it would likely help the skater to bend further forward for more streamlined speed, if that is what is required?

[Shyheels]

I’m Australian - cricket is a much, much, much bigger deal in Australia than it is in Britain. It is often said, only half in jest, that the second most prominent job in Australia, behind the prime minister, is the captain of the Australian cricket team.

[Puffer]

1 minute ago, Shyheels said:

I’m Australian - cricket is a much, much, much bigger deal in Australia than it is in Britain. It is often said, only half in jest, that the second most prominent job in Australia, behind the prime minister, is the captain of the Australian cricket team.

... or whoever in the government decides whether a visiting tennis-playing bloke is allowed a visa.

[Shyheels]

That ain’t the cricket captain

[Isolathor]

The captain has to wear the highest heels to be recognized ..... 😉

[mlroseplant]

15 hours ago, Puffer said:

Do you mean a wedge shoe similar to these below.   Most usually, as you say, with the upper and entire heel in the same material and colour.   I think they are rather elegant and appeal to those women who like a high but more stable heel that is not clumpy.   As single-sole sandals, they were popular in the UK for several years (but not I think for the last 15 or so) but are still around as boots.

                 

 

Do you still consider the 'spike' heel (as I described it above) as being a true stiletto - or even a sub-set?   My view remains that it is in a class of its own and does not justify the 'stiletto' label.

 

Yes, that is an iteration of what I am talking about. Somewhere in the back of a closet, my wife still has a couple of pairs of these, I am sure. They've probably never been worn. As I recall, they were courts or possibly Mary Janes, I don't remember. We carted them all the way from Vietnam nearly 14 years ago, but her feet grew an entire size after the baby, not an unusual story. I have never seen shoes like this since.

As far as my definition of "stiletto heel," I was basing it more upon the shape of the dagger rather than any precedent set by shoe designers of the 1950s. In my definition, the seat is irrelevant. And by the way, I just completely made this up last week. This is nobody's definition but my own. I have only two requirements for something to be called a stiletto heel. 1) The tip or top piece must be small, probably 10 mm or less, and 2) it must retain that diameter for at least 50% of its total length. Any other curvature is merely ornamental.

I haven't time to finish my thoughts at the moment. I'll check back later.

[Puffer]

44 minutes ago, mlroseplant said:

...

As far as my definition of "stiletto heel," I was basing it more upon the shape of the dagger rather than any precedent set by shoe designers of the 1950s. In my definition, the seat is irrelevant. And by the way, I just completely made this up last week. This is nobody's definition but my own. I have only two requirements for something to be called a stiletto heel. 1) The tip or top piece must be small, probably 10 mm or less, and 2) it must retain that diameter for at least 50% of its total length. Any other curvature is merely ornamental.

I haven't time to finish my thoughts at the moment. I'll check back later.

As you wish (and I await your further thoughts), but I don't think we should totally ignore history and precedent here.   Stiletto does not simply equate to 'spike', tapered or not.

Here is another example of a heel that might be borderline stiletto.   Slim, round and evenly tapered (so not it seems parallel for 50% or more of its length) and with minimal seating.   An attractive sandal and most would call it a 'stiletto' - but I rather think it falls foul of either of our definitions so far (unless you really mean that 'it must not exceed that diameter (~10mm) for at least 50% of its length', so permitting taper).   Over to you!

[Isolathor]

2 hours ago, Puffer said:

Looks like stilettos to me.

[SF]

Stiletto or not, I like the sandals.....   sf

[Isolathor]

18 minutes ago, SF said:

Stiletto or not, I like the sandals.....   sf

+1

Edited January 11, 2022 by Isolathor

[Chorlini]

I can't say I like the heel shape, it feels too much a like a form of deconstruction as it were. The appeal of the classic high heel is that it flows around the heel of the foot and through its flowing line becomes an extension of it. Still a lot of better then chunky heels or platforms though. And yes, I would call it a stiletto. Although its not a term that sees much use here in the Netherlands. I don't think I've ever heard it being used. It's always been heels or high heels.

[Isolathor]

The use of the word stiletto seems to be of italian origin. In Germany it is rarely used. In former times (say in the 50s and 60s) these shoes were "Stoeckelschuhe", but this term almost vanished and was replaced by the english "high heel".  

[Puffer]

'A stiletto (Italian: [stiˈletto]) is a knife or dagger with a long slender blade and needle-like point, primarily intended as a stabbing weapon.'   

The use of the word to describe a slender high heel clearly derived from this because of the perceived similarity of shape/appearance, probably influenced by some of the first truly stiletto-heeled shoes being made in Italy.   As the fashion became established (mid-late 50s), the term became the norm in the UK at least, although I believe that the alternative of 'spike heel' was more commonly heard in the US, at least initially.   (No doubt some older US members can comment on that.)

I'm surprised to know that the usual term in the Netherlands and Germany (at least) was simply 'high heel'.   That is so vague as to be barely descriptive at all - how high; thin or thick etc?   If someone says 'I like wearing high heels', it really tells us nothing about the shoes she favours other than they are not 'flat' - another vague description.

[Isolathor]

In Germany the use of the english term "high heels" means at least 4"/10cm and a slender/thin heel. If you have a shoe with a blockheel it will be called "Absatzschuh", even if it is in excess of 4"/10cm. 

An example:

In german understanding these are not "high heels" but "Absatzschuhe", despite a heel of more than 10cm.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Isolathor

[mlroseplant]

21 hours ago, Puffer said:

As you wish (and I await your further thoughts), but I don't think we should totally ignore history and precedent here.   Stiletto does not simply equate to 'spike', tapered or not.

Here is another example of a heel that might be borderline stiletto.   Slim, round and evenly tapered (so not it seems parallel for 50% or more of its length) and with minimal seating.   An attractive sandal and most would call it a 'stiletto' - but I rather think it falls foul of either of our definitions so far (unless you really mean that 'it must not exceed that diameter (~10mm) for at least 50% of its length', so permitting taper).   Over to you!

Yeah, I'd go with borderline- or near-stiletto. What I object to, however, is that big mushroom head at the bottom of the heel. It almost looks like somebody has been using this as a punch, and has mushroomed the end of it, and now it needs to be ground off for safety! Other than that, the sandals ARE quite nice. I wonder if that single, thin strap around the toes would bite into your skin after a while. Oh, and the pointy toes. They're not super pointy like many these days, but honestly, how did pointy toed sandals become a thing? Perhaps these sandals are not for me after all. I like the general concept, though.

44 minutes ago, Puffer said:

'A stiletto (Italian: [stiˈletto]) is a knife or dagger with a long slender blade and needle-like point, primarily intended as a stabbing weapon.'   

The use of the word to describe a slender high heel clearly derived from this because of the perceived similarity of shape/appearance, probably influenced by some of the first truly stiletto-heeled shoes being made in Italy.   As the fashion became established (mid-late 50s), the term became the norm in the UK at least, although I believe that the alternative of 'spike heel' was more commonly heard in the US, at least initially.   (No doubt some older US members can comment on that.)

I'm surprised to know that the usual term in the Netherlands and Germany (at least) was simply 'high heel'.   That is so vague as to be barely descriptive at all - how high; thin or thick etc?   If someone says 'I like wearing high heels', it really tells us nothing about the shoes she favours other than they are not 'flat' - another vague description.

The terminology here in the midwest U.S. in the 1980s was generally "spike" heel. If you could pop a balloon with it, it was a spike heel, and if you couldn't, it was a regular high heel. I don't think the term "stiletto" caught on much until that Sex and the City T.V. show, more than a decade later. That's a good thing, because those spike heels of the 1980s were NOT, in my opinion, stiletto heels, any of them. The shape was all wrong. 80s heels share more similarity to cone heels than they do stilettos. They are not cone heels, of course, but stylized, curvier versions of cone heels.

A few observation about women's high heels of the 1980s: They got worn a lot more by more people than do today's heels. Open-toe/peep toe pumps were a serious fashion trend back then. Always worn with hosiery. I do not recall a platform in sight, unless it was on a Candies type wooden shoe, where a platform is kind of necessary for structural integrity. And lastly, they just weren't as high as I remember them. The awful high heel desert of the 1990s affected my memory. Thanks to social media in the modern era, my present recollection has been refreshed, and in some cases, corrected.

You see, in my mind, when I remembered high school and college, I remembered girls wearing what is pictured in the first image, and I sort of romanticized the era. Yeah, you had that over-the-top hair and some other somewhat ridiculous looking accessories, but hey, it seemed like everybody wore heels that were quite high at least somewhat regularly! Now, because of the internet, I have many photographs at my disposal from that era, and I see that nobody wore shoes like that. Not around here, anyway. They wore shoes like are pictured in the second image. Or, even more probable, the third.

[Chorlini]

1 hour ago, Isolathor said:

In Germany the use of the english term "high heels" means at least 4"/10cm and a slender/thin heel. If you have a shoe with a blockheel it will be called "Absatzschuh", even if it is in excess of 4"/10cm. 

An example:"

In german understanding these are not "high heels" but "Absatzschuhe", despite a heel of more than 10cm.

In Dutch high heels are high heels. Whether or not they have thin heels or chunky abominations. We do have the term naaldhakken or needle heels for thin heels. I reckon every country has its own terms and definitions. Which is another part why this discussion is super nerdy, as we're arguing about a definition/term unique to English speaking countries and which to those outside of those countries means very little.

[Shyheels]

3 hours ago, Puffer said:

'A stiletto (Italian: [stiˈletto]) is a knife or dagger with a long slender blade and needle-like point, primarily intended as a stabbing weapon.'   

The use of the word to describe a slender high heel clearly derived from this because of the perceived similarity of shape/appearance, probably influenced by some of the first truly stiletto-heeled shoes being made in Italy.   As the fashion became established (mid-late 50s), the term became the norm in the UK at least, although I believe that the alternative of 'spike heel' was more commonly heard in the US, at least initially.   (No doubt some older US members can comment on that.)

I'm surprised to know that the usual term in the Netherlands and Germany (at least) was simply 'high heel'.   That is so vague as to be barely descriptive at all - how high; thin or thick etc?   If someone says 'I like wearing high heels', it really tells us nothing about the shoes she favours other than they are not 'flat' - another vague description.

Yes, high heels is a very broad term and fairly meaningless in terms of style, aesthetics or fashion. Only slightly more specific than saying footwear. Or like saying you like boots. Is that ankle boots? Knee boots? Hiking boots? Chelsea boots? OTK boots? THigh boots? Biker boots? Riding boots?  Or, in terms of art, like saying you like paintings. Meaningless. Some degree of specificity is needed in terms of conversation or critique  

[Isolathor]

3 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Yes, high heels is a very broad term and fairly meaningless in terms of style, aesthetics or fashion. Only slightly more specific than saying footwear.

So if you can provide a picture of the heels it is better than a desciption with many words! 🤓