Double Standards in Footwear

[robbiehhw]

This is more directed at guys that wear heels and women's shoes in general, but i was thinking yesterday about one of the double standards that we know exist in many areas.

It was a very warm day here yesterday and i wore sandals to work and actually went barefoot most of the day in the office. (It's my office, i make the dress code or lack thereof). I was noticing men out there both dressed business casual and casual and thinking it really is bad for most men. They do not get to bare their feet very much. Sure men have sandals, but most of them are somewhat chunky or clunky and socially it is only ok for men to wear sandals in quite casual and leisure situations. The common footwear for most men even in very hot weather is loafers and socks or athletic shoes and thick socks. Presumably the latter exist to soak up all the perspiration from having to wear constricting shoes all day.

I seriously have seen maybe a dozen times complaints online about men wearing flip flops on planes etc. Often the line is " I don't want to look at some guys nasty feet" whatever. What a stupid double standard. Men should take care of their feet and make them as presentable and clean as possible yes, but they should also get to bare them just as much as women and particularly in hot weather. Younger guys do bare more than older guys but still not in near the amount of situations that women can.

So wear those sandals - wedged or not. Mankind and a whole lot of sweaty feet will thank you later.

Edited June 9, 2016 by robbiehhw

[geot]

This is part of a pet peeve of mine... Not so much now, but I have worked in many an office where the men's dress code was business formal (jacket, tie, dress shirt and trousers, closed shoes) and the woman's was basically "not naked." Then in the summer these barely dressed women would bitch and moan all day about being cold in the air conditioning while the men were sweating like pigs, and in the winter were insisting on the heat being set to 30C so they weren't cold, while the men sat and sweated. Really wanted to break out a summer dress and sandals in the summer, or heck, even a formal dress kilt, but that wouldn't have been acceptable.

[Shyheels]

I take your point on the double standard in dress codes. Interestingly, not long after the big brou-ha-ha over the temp who refused to wear heels there was a piece in the Guardian about a guy - a teacher - who decided to make the big experiment and not wear a tie to work. He was quickly taken aside by the headmaster (a woman) and told to shape up and wear a tie, or else start looking for a new job. It was interesting to read the comments section at the end of the feature - nearly all of them were disparaging him (poor you) for moaning about having to wear a tie. Unlike the lass with her dislike of heels, there was no petition to Parliament about changing the sexist dress code, no 130,000 signatures, no outrage by commentators, just a man made to bend and wear a tie. Which he did.

As someone who flies a lot though, I am not thrilled by seeing people boarding planes in flip-flops, shorts, beach wear, tracksuits, etc. It's crass. 

 

 

  

[hhboots]

Most men do take pretty poor care of their feet compared to women.  

I think sandals can be ok for men to wear in semi-professional/casual work surroundings, if they 1. are not flip flops or similar beach type sandals, 2. the guy wearing them makes at least some attempt to take care of his feet, 3. the sandals are of nicer quality, such as these or these (only considering sandals specifically targeted at men in this discussion).  Note you would not see a woman wearing flip-flops or similar beach shoes to work either.   So, I really think there may be a double standard, but it goes beyond just the basic consideration of men not being able to wear sandals to work, which I think is not entirely true, because I wear them in the office myself when it's really hot out.  

As I mentioned, most men's feet are pretty damn ugly in that they would need a hedge trimmer and maybe a sandblaster to unsheathe what might be a decent looking foot buried in there somewhere and I wouldn't want to see them in my office either.     Of course most of us on this forum take far better care of our feet, I would assume...

Edited June 9, 2016 by hhboots

[Puffer]

Some interesting comments above.   I like wearing sandals in any informal setting during the summer but (if I was still working) would not expect to wear them in almost any working environment without censure and certainly not in any 'office' context that involved dealing with the public.   That restriction does not seem to apply to women in many UK workplaces however; they often go barefoot in flimsy flip-flops and other beach-type sandals almost regardless of their particular occupation.

I dislike men's 'traditional' sandals as they are invariably heavy and ugly or are fussy with too many wide straps; I would not wear either pair linked by hhboots above, for example.   Nor would I wear rubber flip-flops (even if Havaianas or similar) except perhaps on the beach.   I prefer something light and open with a minimum of straps but, although there are many women's styles of this type that would be acceptable male wear, they are rarely available in my size (UK11).   Berkemann original sandals and Birkenstock Madrid are  happy exceptions and I have both - unfussy, cool and comfortable.   And I have a pair similar to these which are nice to wear too:  http://goth-specks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/il_fullxfull.848006987_l6bg.jpg 

Yes, anyone (male or female) wearing sandals should take care of their feet, and it is very obvious when they don't.   I will confess to having my big toenails on both feet slightly damaged and discoloured at present; not too obvious but a minor embarrassment until it grows out (and maybe a good excuse for a discreet coat of varnish!).   

Having just returned from a holiday in Greece, I saw all sorts of sandal-wearing both in the resort and on the journey home, most of it uninspiring.   Quite why men (or indeed women) want to fly home in shorts, tee shirts and flip-flops is beyond me, especially when the weather on landing was, predictably, cool and dull. 

[robbiehhw]

Good comments, yes. As a trans woman, i wear generally what women my age wear. (sometimes i push the envelope on the age thing) These are the sandals i wore the day i was referencing: http://www.famousfootwear.com/en-US/Product/55005-1035897/B.O.C/Saddle+Brown/Womens+Lauper+Sandal.aspx?partnerid=adwordspla&cvo_adid=1035897-55005-7.0M&cvosrc=cse.GoogleShopping.55005&cvo_campaign=General&KPID=1035897-55005-7.0M&k_clickid=622b07b6-7b36-41b4-ae22-413d8e30ae79&gclid=CNS-w_qK5MwCFUiGfgod2wEIag

Way more comfortable than anything i saw men wearing downtown that day.  Wedge sandals can be just as comfortable and cool.

I agree that the double standards on all dress favor women, the heel brouhaha in the UK notwithstanding. The tie and the suit is something that should be consigned to choice or formal affairs.  Guys don't get to bare their legs in most business situation unless it is a shorts environment or perhaps the few that wear kilts. Guys also run hotter in general than women do, further adding to the issue. Perhaps the gender fluid fashion movement will improve this to some degree

I personally would have no problem sitting next to a guy on a plane comfortably dressed in dainty sandals. As long as he takes care of himself and is clean/smells ok.

Edited June 9, 2016 by robbiehhw

[hhboots]

I agree with you Puffer, the sandals I linked above are not all that attractive.  I was focusing on sandals advertised toward most men, which I knew would not go over that well on this forum  but it was only to make a point of sorts... that I think in general men can and do wear them where I work anyway (I work in an office where semi-casual wear is the norm).  Anyway, the type of sandals I've worn to work are low wedges with thinner straps, and that look somewhat gender neutral, similar to these or these, or these that I am wearing right now

Edited June 9, 2016 by hhboots

[Heelster]

@Shyheels

Regarding flying .

Thanks to TSA and dumbass terrorists, anything that makes it easier to clear Customs and TSA checks is fine by me. I know a couple women that pack all their dress wear in luggage and wear sweats and slippers - - - easier and faster.

Hard to believe but I had to go through customs and TSA at O'hara recently. I had over 2 hours of layover, and caught my connecting flight with 2 minutes to spare. Peel off your shoes, your jackets, anything in pockets, belts, metal anything, take laptop out of bag - - - 

I wore boots with a full zipper because it was the fastest footwear I had - - - 

[Steve63130]

A few years ago, like JeffB, I didn't like sandals at all, either on women or men. I've come around to love them (at least some of them) and wear them as much as I can in warm weather. I typically wear them with blue or white bootcut jeans. I take good care of my feet, putting lotion on my heels every day to avoid cracked skin, and getting a professional pedicure once a month to take care of nails, calluses, etc. I always keep polish on my toes (and fingers). I am always surprised how few comments I get on that - I could count them on the toes of one foot! I like to be a good example to other men who wish they could wear sandals and bare their toes when it's warm out.

 

[Shyheels]

15 hours ago, Heelster said:

@Shyheels

Regarding flying .

Thanks to TSA and dumbass terrorists, anything that makes it easier to clear Customs and TSA checks is fine by me. I know a couple women that pack all their dress wear in luggage and wear sweats and slippers - - - easier and faster.

Hard to believe but I had to go through customs and TSA at O'hara recently. I had over 2 hours of layover, and caught my connecting flight with 2 minutes to spare. Peel off your shoes, your jackets, anything in pockets, belts, metal anything, take laptop out of bag - - - 

I wore boots with a full zipper because it was the fastest footwear I had - - - 

Yes, I understand that going through airport security in the US is something special these days thanks to understaffing by the TSA, and so there is a natural and understandable desire by passengers to streamline the process where possible, but it should still be possible to look presentable. No need to be a slob. Nice jeans or trousers with empty pockets should be able to pass through the eye of the needle just as readily as sweats or shorts with empty pockets.

And the rest of it. Are cheap rubber flip-flops really necessary for speeding through security? Are there no alternatives? Can people not think ahead and stash their phones, pens, wallets and coins in the pockets of their carry-on so they don't have to hold up the queue? I do. Can they not sort out their carry-ons so that their laptops and iPads are quickly and easily accessible? I do.

Flying is pretty grubby these days, but it needn't be downright gross.

[robbiehhw]

Again i don't consider flip flops gross, but i would question whether it is a wise fashion choice for travel. My main concern is that women and men be treated equally. One of my largest pet peeves are double standards. 

Recently i boarded a flight with nice new sandals, painted nails that matched my outfit, jeans and a paisley top. And the flight attendant commented "my you look very nice and fancy today " I thanked her but then i thought to myself. If this outfit is fancy, what is the norm she sees? lol. Must have been the paisley.

Edited June 10, 2016 by robbiehhw

[Shyheels]

I see guys, and gals, looking like they are just back from the beach or the gym - board shorts, grubby T-shirt, flip flops, cheap polyester sweats. It is just so crass. 

[Heelster]

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I see guys, and gals, looking like they are just back from the beach or the gym - board shorts, grubby T-shirt, flip flops, cheap polyester sweats. It is just so crass. 

I see that everyday - - - and worse. It's the new norm.

 

[Shyheels]

Like they say in that charmingly artless song in Chicago, what ever happened to class?

[Heelster]

48 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

Like they say in that charmingly artless song in Chicago, what ever happened to class?

Walmart doesn't sell class - cheap and easy.

 

[robbiehhw]

Part of the reduction in formality in society is part of becoming more egalitarian. When everyone is equal there is a less of need to divide ourselves with dress. I am all for equality. At times though you do miss the elegance of formality.

[Shyheels]

Can't we all just dress nicely, and leave the sweats to the gym and the flip-flops to the beach?

[Heelster]

18 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

Can't we all just dress nicely, and leave the sweats to the gym and the flip-flops to the beach?

The concept is there, but the reality of it has since gone away. Some of the better quality stores such as Macy's as an example would have clothing designs and fashions that would be much more acceptable from your viewpoint, but getting people to wear these styles on a casual basis won't happen at $35.00 a shirt. Granted, there are some exceptional deals out there, but Jeans and a tee shirt are pretty much accepted anywhere. Also consider,  a pair of Nike trainers are rather expensive, but they can also wear them anywhere.

At one time, I worked in an office cubicle farm where men wore shirts and ties. I only saw the same people every day. It wasn't like I was dealing with customers and vendors. As I soon learned, you can dress an idiot up but they are still idiots. At that point, I determined that a dress tie was nothing more than a noose one puts around his own neck.

I was in Linz Austria recently, and I noticed that people dressed much better than they do in the US. No sweats, pajama pants, and crappy anything else. It was definitely different to see, and yes, I saw some nice heels too.

I had to go into town the other day to pick up some items, and I saw sweats, Pajama pants, board shorts, tee shirts, wife beaters, and jeans. Sneakers, and flipflops. Stops I made were Walmart, gas station, auto parts store, grocery store, and a pharmacy. I probably saw 250 people on a weekday after work, and nobody was dressed half as well as the as the Austrians on a weekend.

I don't know how the fashion industry stays alive. the 99% can buy buy a week's worth of clothes for $35.00 at a Walmart and then one pair of sneakers. They are good to go.

 

[Shyheels]

Linz is a nice town. And I take your point - Europeans by and large dress better, even when they are being casual than people in the English speaking world. (I can't speak for Americans, but England and Australia I know well) 

That said, it is not purely a matter of economics. I have travelled quite a bit in Africa and I can tell you that if you see some slob dressed in shorts, sweats, flip-flops etc at the airport or in a hotel lobby, sure as x it'll be some Western tourist or contractor. It sure as hell won't be an African. 

[robbiehhw]

Even stylish fast fashion success stories like Old Navy, H&M etc. Tend to market fairly casual but trendy clothing. Still, i see a lot of heels on women and of course boots and ankle boots are very common now. The uptick in boots is a trend that i like a lot.

 

 

[Heelster]

On 6/13/2016 at 1:39 PM, robbiehhw said:

Even stylish fast fashion success stories like Old Navy, H&M etc. Tend to market fairly casual but trendy clothing. Still, i see a lot of heels on women and of course boots and ankle boots are very common now. The uptick in boots is a trend that i like a lot.

 

 

Lucky dog  - - - 

[mlroseplant]

To slightly offset the subject, don't even get me started about dress codes in the classical music world. I'm a cellist, and it would be nice to have a little bit more freedom in the arms. Below are two examples of what men are required to wear, versus what women are allowed to wear. 

I was browsing through a cello forum a couple of weeks ago, and some woman commented that she cannot play in anything with sleeves. I thought to myself, "Oh, puleeze! Try playing in both a long sleeved shirt plus a jacket!" I wonder if I would play incrementally better if I were not somewhat fettered by my clothing. 

[Shyheels]

Interesting point. One I never thought of, being able to play only the radio myself. But looking at the two photos one could readily imagine the sleeves on the jacket intruding themselves on the man's ease of play. As to your playing better without the accoutrements, do you play better in practice? I am assuming you don't dress up to the nines in practice (I mean at home, not rehearsals)

Edited June 19, 2016 by Shyheels

[mlroseplant]

13 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Interesting point. One I never thought of, being able to play only the radio myself. But looking at the two photos one could readily imagine the sleeves on the jacket intruding themselves on the man's ease of play. As to your playing better without the accoutrements, do you play better in practice? I am assuming you don't dress up to the nines in practice (I mean at home, not rehearsals)

It's really impossible to say, as practicing at home or even rehearsing is far different than an actual performance. The nervousness and adrenaline rush associated with a performance make it impossible to compare formal dress with casual dress. Usually, if the technical ability is there, the performance is superior to the rehearsal. I just idly wondered if it made any sort of difference. 

[Shyheels]

Interesting thought!

[Chorlini]

It's been my experience that you can get used to anything, provided you practice it for a long time. I'm into ballroom dancing and I'm used to dancing in ballroom dancing shoes. The odd time I forget to bring them along and have to dance without them feels like I'm dancing on sandpaper. And yet I see plenty of people who still dance with regular shoes, or even sneakers. They're used to it. I used to be used to it too at one time. What you don't know, you don't miss, and anything can get used to if you have to.

[Shyheels]

I guess this same adaptability is how some people get used to walking in five inch heels - some to the point where they can no longer walk comfortably in flats. 

[Chorlini]

I'm always amazed and enthralled by ballet dancers who are able to walk en pointe. And lament that I can't walk in ballet heels. But then again it takes them years of constant training to be able to do that. The degree to which the human body can be trained or adapted, provided if its done gradually and with care, is truly amazing. Too bad most of us lack the patience and discipline. Instead we op for quick fixes and solutions, and when they inevitably fail we lament that it cannot be done.

[Shyheels]

So true. Once upon a time I did lots of stretching for various sports - distance running and fencing sabre - and was as limber as gumby. I've long since lost all that and as I contemplate trying to get that back, and realise the low base from which I am starting,  I realise how much work and dedication it will take to get there and become too depressed to start...

[Rockpup]

This is Florida. I've worn a suit 3 times in 15 years, my wedding, a friends wedding, and court