You Americans Are So Funny!

[Dr. Shoe]

I was reading in another thread about the cast of Kinky Boots appearing in the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade.

 

Here in the UK such an event would not have even been considered newsworthy let alone would it have sparked outrage like it seems to have done in the US!

 

We have a long tradition of being entertained by men in women's clothes. Pantomime Dames and Drag Acts are part and parcel of our culture. Up until the 17th century, female roles on the stage were always played by boys or men because acting was not considered suitable for women.

 

Why is it the "Land Of The Free" is so repressed? Or... is it?

 

Discuss.

[Shafted]

I have to agree with you Dr. Shoe. We are repressed. The majority of we Americans don't even have the slightest inkling. Sad isn't it, a society that insists that it's free still has problems with things such as this.

 

Ignorance is still at the heart of the majority of our problems.

[Rockpup]

I thought we were founded by religious people who felt the UKs stance on religion was not strict enough?

[Bubba136]

Yeah, the low information voters are really a uptight bunch.

[SF]

geezzzz......  what rubbish.....

[ilikekicks]

Dr. Shoe..

 

Some will get an absolute laugh about this but its their liberty being lost as well. If they want to laugh about such, thats sad.

 

 

 

I was reading in another thread about the cast of Kinky Boots appearing in the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade.

 

Here in the UK such an event would not have even been considered newsworthy let alone would it have sparked outrage like it seems to have done in the US!

 

Im going to try and put this into perspective, not be condescending nor make an attempt to ' stir the pot '.

 

My viewpoint is ' Men in high heeled boots ' compared to what?

 

17trillion dollars of debt? Stop-and-frisk searches? Hydrofracking contaminating the natural spring wells in my area? Trying to find affordable medical insurances now that the system has been destroyed? A continued deployment of hundreds of thousands of people with machine guns to other countries? Guantanamo Bay where people are STILL being detained 5 years AFTER a campaign promise was made to charge them or set them free when they were never charged with any formal crime? Im told I cant own a certain firearm when the present folks in Government sold fully automatic ( IE: REAL ) assault weapons to drug cartels and they were then used to kill my fellow citizens..

 

Men in high heeled boots? So what! They arent spending the nation into bankrupcy, not wasting a clean water supply, not telling me I cant go see the doctor I used to have for chemo and my followups. They arent invading other countries for whatever reasons, they arent illegally detaining people with no charges, they arent telling me what I can or cannot own and they certainly arent selling ' high heeled assault boots ' to anyone, granted, getting stomped by those spikes might do some physical harm.. but they havent threatened to do such to anyone.

 

*MY* gripe is that this wasnt ' newsworthy ' to begin with. Some will use such a story though to ridicule others or to point a finger at a chance of degrating someone whom doesnt agree with them.

 

 

 

We have a long tradition of being entertained by men in women's clothes. Pantomime Dames and Drag Acts are part and parcel of our culture.

 

The same can be said for the U.S. Theres Drag Shows at quite a few places in Buffalo, NYC or any of the major metropolises.

 

 

 

Up until the 17th century, female roles on the stage were always played by boys or men because acting was not considered suitable for women.

 

That would be something I would say is quite unfair.

 

 

 

Why is it the "Land Of The Free" is so repressed? Or... is it?

 

Discuss.

 

As someone whom has run a Business and now works for someone else, I have a bit of insight like some others may not have experienced. Others may have more experience then I do, I can recognize such.

 

Is the ' Land of the Free ' repressed? Its beyond that and people dont even realize how deep in the rabbit hole they are truly living. I'll try and explain with instances most people can relate to.

 

Being from the North East part of the U.S. ( as are others here ), Im sure MANY will be able to say ' I know the guy ILK is speaking of! He lives right next door! '.

 

We get Snow. Theres Ice. It gets cold. There arent Hurricanes in my area, no tornados or earthquakes.. thankfully no major forest fires.. Just lots of winter weather, sometimes SEVERE WINTER WEATHER!

 

I keep a months supply of food on hand. I was a youngin when the Blizzard of 1977 hit Buffalo. 13 foot of snow! It took months to get everything working again in the area.

 

If you live in the North East, You know you should keep your car with at least a half tank during winter months. Have some food put away. Blankets, flashlight, a radio, batteries, plastic in case a window is broken.. *WE* should be prepared for what the weather will bring.

 

Tara.. Im betting many whom just read that agree with it.. yet they know more people whom are NOT prepared for such and those same people usually dont give any consideration to a bad winter storm happening endless the weather broadcasts/predictions tell them ' a bad storm is coming '.

 

Why is this?

 

Its because people have more faith in something else then their own abilities.

 

What they all believe in is that a ' good neighbor ' or a ' village ' will always be there to come to their aid. Its a noble thought, but if enough people dont have the goods to deliver, its a moot point.

 

Instead, we need GOVERNMENT to do all these things for us. Social Programs, A retirement system, a medical system, Education System, and Environmental system, a postal system.. 

 

By delegating all these things for a ' common good ', rules for each have to be implemented. Some will be good, others severely flawed.

 

What the majority of those whom used to be ' free ' dont comprehend at all is that by wanting all of those things, even though they are noble, they are eradicating personal liberties. They complain about it AFTER these things go into effect and never look into these things before hand.

 

A couple of things as examples, some people might see for what they are and some whom support these ideas will start flaming.

 

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State. Its the 6th article in our Constitution. "We the people" are supposed to have the right of a trial by Jury, but in a lot of low level crimes, we are not givin the right of a trial by jury. For instance in traffic court you don't have the option of trial by jury in some cases. The judge makes the decsion of guilt or innocence. The problem is that judges work for the government and juries of the people don't. I don't want someone who works for the same people accusing me of the crime to deside the outcome.

 

As mentioned above, how can a ' system of laws ' hold, for an indefinite time, people whom arent charged with a crime? This is after taking them from another country and moving them to a country outside of U.S. Boarders? It sounds a lot like kidnapping to me. If these people are criminals of some kind, and the U.S. Justice system wishes to do these things, why arent they read their rights and given appropriate means to a speedy trial as our nations laws state? some of these people have been held for a decade already.. no trial?

 

*IF* this can happen outside of the boarders of a ' lawful nation ', whats stopping it from happening inside those boarders? 

 

The truth is, it has happened.

 

There are some Bloggers whom post a lot of Satyr about politicians.. The Secret Service pays them visits and questions them for doing nothing more then exercising their freedom of speech?

 

On July 4th 2004 of all days. Jeff and Nicole Rank were handcuffed and removed from a speech President Bush was giving at the State Capitol of West Virginia, because they were wearing anti Bush tee shirts. The couple was arrested because Nicole had " Love America, Hate Bush" on the front of her shirt, and Mr. Rank's shirt on the back said "Regime change starts at home" Trespassing charges filed against the couple by Charleston police officers after they were removed from the event were later dismissed because a municipal judge determined city trespassing ordinances do not apply to Statehouse grounds. City Council and Mayor Danny Jones have publicly apologized to the Ranks. 

I also recall a student being tazered after he asked Al Gore an unpopular question. These are a few examples of our right to free speech being grossly violated by agents within our own system. 

 

I remember what happened after Hurricane Katrina hit. Government openly declared that no one would be allowed to have a gun, and that all guns would be confiscated. They made good on their threat, as they went door to door forcibly stealing citizens guns. Another gross violation of our civil rights. Law abiding citizens were left with no way to protect themselves from criminals looting and looking to break into their homes. 

 

We supposedly have a 4th Amendment which says something about us being secure in our posessions and tha there are procedures that must be followed before our property can be confiscated.

 

The government violates this amendment all the time and in so many diffrent ways that the examples are just about endless. Looking back again at what happened after hurricane Katrina reminds me of the violation of people in wholesale quantity. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures. Well, people were dragged from their homes by force in many instances. The government said it was ' unsafe ' for people to stay in their homes and MUST leave. When people refused to open their doors for the Governmental types, the doors were kicked in. Yet another violation of our rights. The 4th amendment is clear when it says they need a warrant to enter someones home. Yet they did it anyway. 

Also checkpoints along the road are violations of peoples rights. The constitution states that they must have *probable cause* to stop someone and based on that probable cause a judge must issue a warrant. None of this happens, which makes checkpoints illegal. The point being made by some is that these checkpoints are ' illegal ' as thats what they are looking for, ' Illegal Aliens '. If someone is driving down the road, not being a menace, obeying the traffic rules and has a vehicle that doesnt seem unsafe, why bother them? Why pull them over? Is ' probable cause ' because they have a darker skin tone? Is it because they speak spanish or another language? 

 

Im not saying ' race ' is the main issue in most instances, but one would have to not contain a functioning mechanism in their brain to outright deny that such does happen.

Emminant Domain cases over the last few years are also clearly unlawful. The government is now forcing people to sell their property at whatever dollar amount the government deems fair. Then they turn around and sell the property to a private business. This happened a few years ago in New London Ct. They forced an entire community to sell their property to let Phizer build a drug plant. Five years later Phizer shut the plant down and shipped it oversea's. Now that property is vacant. They tried the same thing with the people of Centrallia P.A. .

 

The 5th article states that the government can't take your property without due process. Yet this happens all time as well. If someone is accused of Drunk Driving, they confiscate the vehicle without any due process. if they claim someone has sold drugs, they take anything they believe was purchased with the profits, like cars, boats, cash, ect.... All of this without due process. We are innocent until proven guilty. So how can they take peoples things without a jury convicting them? One could also argue that by them forcing you to sign your tax return and then claiming you lied is self incriminating. Yet it says in the 5th amendent that, "nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself".

 

The 8th article is a bit tricky as " Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.". The problem here is that the word "excessive" is left to opinion. I personally know someone who was arrested for having 5 Vicidan tablets and bail was set at $25,000, even though this person was a lifetime resident of the State and posed no threat of taking off and no threat to public safety. Seems excessive to me seeing as they HAD a prescription for said pills that expired a week prior.

 

One could also argue that some of what goes on in these prisons is cruel punishment. Again, I present Guantanamo Bay.

 

Obamacare and SSI absolutely destroyed the 10th Amendment.

 

What I point out is 50% of the supposed ' Guaranteed rights ' really arent things people are ' born with ' anymore.

 

 

I know of a Blogger. Hes Muslim. He created an HTML/Java app on his blog. It was a picture of a donkey and it would move around. You had to pin a tail on the donkey which had GW's face on it. About a year into Obamas Presidency, he changed the face to Obama. His blog cited his reasons being Guantanamo bay, U.S. troops still killing muslims ' like the last guy ' and ( true or not ) that Obama is a traitor to Islam as he became a Christian.

 

What was said is all rubbish, true or not doesnt really matter.

 

Someone whom didnt like his blog contacted the Secret Service and he would up having visitors. His description of what happened was 3 Federal agents clearly carrying their sidearms and 2 local police officers knocked on his door, asked whom he was and said they had some questions for him. He offered them some kind of beverage and the use of his porch for the discussion. They advised him it would be better to go with them to avoid any ' confusion ' to an ' office building ' for a discussion in which they wanted to clarify what his intentions were for having a ' practice simulation ' of a sitting U.S. President being ' struck by sharp objects '.

 

Because of his past comments like ' Bush bombing innocent women and children! I bet he would think different if it were his kids! ' and other comments which I feel could be considered stupid ( moreso then a threat ), they decided to pay him a visit.

 

 

 

People all laugh about these things. They are under a belief that it ' cant happen here '.

 

 

I like pork. BBQ Ribs to be exact. Imaging that! A descendent of the Shylocks liking the ' dirty swine '. Gimme that BBQ with banana and some molasses in teh sauce! Make it thick and tangy! I can choose to have such.. on my farm.

 

Heres a Comparison I really love! -->

 

Compare :

 

If I go to a restaurant, the menus now have all this shit about calories and content and trans fat.. heaven forbid im in NYC and I want a ' Big Gulp ' 32oz soft drink.. Its regulated away. Salt content is regulated away.

 

They say I cant smoke a joint because its a drug that has bad side effects. Smoking causes cancer..

 

YET -->

 

A woman can have unprotected sex which she can then choose to have a surgical procedure to terminate an ' unwanted pregnancy '. That same woman can consume massive amounts of booze and hit people with her car.. yet booze and that surgical procedure are both legal..

 

My fat-burgers are banned, I can have a joint which has been proven to have no physical addictions ( heaven forbid we use the raw product of hemp itself! )..

 

Just whats the real ' freedom of choice '? ' Choice ' isnt about a WOMANS ' right to choose ', its about all of us choosing for ourselves what makes us happy and how we CHOOSE to live our lives.

 

 

 

There are just too many people whom will say ' Right wingers are funny ' or ' Leftist pigs are foul ' or something to that effect when in actuality, ANYONE whom makes such a statement shouldnt complain when they are the raw source of why Dr. Shoes question is being asked.

 

Is the land of the free being ' repressed '? The answer is very obvious and I didnt get into the details, only scratched the surface with examples anyone with a search engine can relate to.

 

-ILK.

Yeah, the low information voters are really a uptight bunch.

 

In my long babble above, I mentioned those in the North East and the theme of bad winter storms. They are of all walks of life in flavor, variety, ethnic making, religion, political persuasion.. The whole lot of them.. I dont know what way they vote or even IF they vote.

Im going to do this as a comparison to how things ' were ' and now ' are ' today. Why I feel its bad when the finger pointing starts. Its a 2 edged sword that HAS cut both ways.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2006/12/the_bill_of_wrongs.html

 

"10. Attempt to Get Death Penalty for Zacarias Moussaoui

Long after it was clear the hapless Frenchman was neither the "20^th hijacker" nor a key plotter in the attacks of 9/11, the government pressed to execute him as a "conspirator" in those attacks. Moussaoui's alleged participation? By failing to confess to what he may have known about the plot, which may have led the government to disrupt it, Moussaoui directly caused the deaths of thousands of people. This massive overreading of the federal conspiracy laws would be laughable were the stakes not so high. Thankfully, a jury rejected the notion that Moussaoui could be executed for the crime of merely wishing there had been a real connection between himself and 9/11."

 

With the present guy? How about Bengazi? It was about a movie. Al Queda was on the run, couldnt mount such an attack..

 

"9. Guantanamo Bay

It takes a licking but it keeps on ticking. After the Supreme Court struck down the military tribunals planned to try hundreds of detainees moldering on the base, and after the president agreed that it might be a good idea to close it down, the worst public relations fiasco since the Japanese internment camps lives on. Prisoners once deemed "among the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth" are either quietly released (and usually set free) or still awaiting trial. The lucky 75 to be tried there will be cheered to hear that the Pentagon has just unveiled plans to build a $125 million legal complex for the hearings. The government has now officially put more thought into the design of Guantanamo's court bathrooms than the charges against its prisoners. "

 

Still open for business 5 years after Bush is gone. Nothing has really changed.

 

"8. Slagging the Media

Whether the Bush administration is reclassifying previously declassified documents, sidestepping the FOIA, threatening journalists for leaks on dubious legal grounds, or, most recently, using its subpoena power to try to wring secret documents from the ACLU, the administration has continued its "secrets at any price" campaign. Is this a constitutional crisis? Probably not. Annoying as hell? Definitely."

 

Lemme quote on this one.. " You have to vote and pass the bill to see whats inside ". - Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House on the ACA. Same crap, different opposition group..

 

"7. Slagging the Courts

It starts with the president's complaints about "activist judges," and evolves to Congressional threats to appoint an inspector general to oversee federal judges. As public distrust of the bench is fueled, the stripping of courts' authority to hear whole classes of cases—most recently any habeas corpus claims from Guantanamo detainees—almost seems reasonable. Each tiny incursion into the independence of the judiciary seems justified. Until you realize that the courts are often the only places that will defend our shrinking civil liberties. This leads to ..."

 

Need I say anything about a certain State of the Union Address in which a President totally denigrated the U.S. Supreme Court, right on the floor of the Peoples House? Same crap, different guy..

 

"6. The State-Secrets Doctrine

The Bush administration's insane argument in court is that judges should dismiss entire lawsuits over many of the outrages detailed on this very list. Why? Because the outrageously illegal things are themselves matters of top-secret national security. The administration has raised this claim in relation to its adventures in secret wiretappingand its fun with extraordinary rendition. A government privilege once used to sidestep civil claims has mushroomed into sweeping immunity for the administration's sometimes criminal behavior."

 

NSA Wiretapping? Never happened, right? Going through reporters lives and ' investigating ' them hasnt happened in the last 5 years? Really?

 

"5. Government Snooping

Take your pick. There's the NSA warrantless eavesdropping program wherein the president breezily authorized spying on the phone calls of innocent citizens, in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. The FBI's TALON database shows the government has been spying on nonterrorist groups, including Quakers, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, and Veterans for Peace. The Patriot Act lives on. And that's just the stuff we know about."

 

I think that was covered in my last comment.. mind everyone, this is 7 years later..

 

"4. Extraordinary Rendition

So, when does it start to become ordinary rendition? This government program has us FedEx-ing unindicted terror suspects abroad for interrogation/torture. Khalid El-Masri, a German citizen, was shipped off to Afghanistan for such treatment and then released without charges, based on some government confusion about his name. Heh heh. Canadian citizen Maher Arar claims he was tortured in Syria for a year, released without charges, and cleared by a Canadian commission. Attempts to vindicate the rights of such men? You'd need to circle back to the state-secrets doctrine, above."

 

How about drone striking a 16yr old U.S. citizen, taking his life, without any due process of law at all? Naw, the last guy was worse.. ( hes just the same IMO ).

 

"3. Abuse of Jose Padilla

First, he was, according to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, "exploring a plan to build and explode a radiological dispersion device, or 'dirty bomb,' in the United States." Then, he was planning to blow up apartments. Then he was just part of a vague terror conspiracy to commit jihad in Bosnia and Chechnya. Always, he was a U.S. citizen. After three and a half years, in which he was denied the most basic legal rights, it has now emerged that Padilla was either outright tortured or near-tortured. According to a recent motion, during Padilla's years of almost complete isolation, he was treated by the U.S. government to sensory and sleep deprivation, extreme cold, stress positions, threats of execution, and drugging with truth serum. Experts say he is too mentally damaged to stand trial. The Bush administration supported his motion for a mental competency assessment, in hopes that will help prevent his torture claims from ever coming to trial, or, as Yale Law School's inimitable Jack Balkin put it: "You can't believe Padilla when he says we tortured him because he's crazy from all the things we did to him.""

 

Need I mention the Blogger from my last post? Same crap, different guy once again!

 

 

 

"2. The Military Commissions Act of 2006

This was the so-called compromise legislation that gave President Bush even more power than he initially had to detain and try so-called enemy combatants. He was generously handed the authority to define for himself the parameters of interrogation and torture and the responsibility to report upon it, since he'd been so good at that. What we allegedly did to Jose Padilla was once a dirty national secret. The MCA made it the law."

 

And the present guy uses it, that law, along with drones.. to hunt down human beings of all kinds. Its actually bad from both groups, yet they point the fingers at one another..

 

And now for the #1 kicker!

 

"1. Hubris

Whenever the courts push back against the administration's unsupportable constitutional ideas—ideas about "inherent powers" and a "unitary executive" or the silliness of the Geneva Conventions or the limitless sweep of presidential powers during wartime—the Bush response is to repeat the same chorus louder: Every detainee is the worst of the worst; every action taken is legal, necessary, and secret. No mistakes, no apologies. No nuance, no regrets. This legal and intellectual intractability can create the illusion that we are standing on the same constitutional ground we stood upon in 2001, even as that ground is sliding away under our feet."

 

Here it is, 7 years after that article was written. ALL of the complaints made by a Liberal Democrat back then are being used today by others against the guy they elected. They BOTH elected the same garbage yet will say theirs isnt garbage OR that their garbage is better then the last garbage..

 

GW Bush is on his 4th term, and they wonder why people might feel repressed. Its been going on for years, decades.. and they havent caught on yet.

 

 

[dww]

Boy that took some reading, and all I have to worry about is my grandaughter asked me why am I wearing nannys boots today.

[Dr. Shoe]

Well yes. What can I say?

 

What about a police squad supposedly set up to combat terrorism searching a politician's office just because he spoke out about the government of the day? They were used because they have the power to search without a warrant and the Speaker Of The House (whose orders they were acting on) knew that they'd never get one.

 

Take a photograph anywhere in parliament square and see what happens. Westminster Abbey, a major tourist destination, is in Parliament Square! Take a photo of any cabinet minister and see what happens then!

[ilikekicks]

Tara : What I would ask is nothing more then a few basic questions to be asked of ourselves towards ourselves..

 

Where did we loose faith in those around us that we feel the right, entitlement or privilege to legislate against one another in such a narrow minded view?

 

What is the future prosperity in following such a path? Is it nothing more then a return to the reign of nobility or a monarchy?

 

"What about a police squad supposedly set up to combat terrorism searching a politician's office just because he spoke out about the government of the day? They were used because they have the power to search without a warrant and the Speaker Of The House (whose orders they were acting on) knew that they'd never get one."

 

If that incident occurred where there is British laws against it, its 100% wrong.

 

In the 90's, the U.S. saw the growing use of whats known as a ' no knock ' warrant. People wearing body armor and carrying REAL ' Assault Weapons ' going into a home to ' recover a child ' whom could have easily been taken in the court room that morning when the boys immigration status was being discussed. The Kid ( Illian Gonzalas ) was right there, why the machine guns in a residential neighborhood? In present time, those same people at the same levels of Government wish to tell the citizens of this Nation they arent allowed certain weapons.. It would seen the opposite should be applied.

 

"Take a photograph anywhere in parliament square and see what happens. Westminster Abbey, a major tourist destination, is in Parliament Square! Take a photo of any cabinet minister and see what happens then!"

 

Instances like that happened in Niagara Falls. Theres a HUGE Hydro-power facility that is of strategic importance to both Canada and the U.S. . Its a huge Tourist sight.

 

 

I just feel that theres too many restrictions being placed upon us and Im to the point where it doesnt matter what direction it comes from anymore. Let people live, free and unimcumbered. Let us make our mistakes or prosper by our own choices, as individuals under a common banner of Liberty.

[SF]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

   'nuff said....

sf

[Shafted]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

   'nuff said...

It doesn't get much more basic than that.

[SF]

ha ha....   keep it simple......  sf

[Dr. Shoe]

ILK, I think the main reason that the police burst in with assault weapons is because Americans are allowed to own guns...

[Shafted]

I think that I'm just going to sit back and watch the crap storm. Nothing good can come from this.

[Amanda]

I think that I'm just going to sit back and watch the crap storm. Nothing good can come from this.

Like

[Heelster]

And I was thinking about some comments I was going to contribute - - - 

 

Shafted - - Save me a seat on the sideline. Any time 2nd amentment segue's kick in, it's gonna be messy.

 

ILK - - Have to agree with you on about 95% 0f your discirtation (sp) - the other 5% are gimme opinions not worth bantering about.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

As I see it, there a lot of folks who have taken an ""OH WELL"" attitude.

Others tell me:

      ""It doesn't affect me because I'm not doing anything to get into trouble with the Government"".

 

Truth is - they can't see what has happened to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

 

It's unfortunate, but I see more signs of civil unrest. If that happens, and I hope it doesn't, the affects will change us, and the world as we know it. What my children will have to endure because of the last 40 - 50 years  brings a chill down my spine.

[Shafted]

Keep it civil folks, please.

 

At the first sign of unrest here, well you know what will happen.

[meganiwish]

Well this is what we had to endure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlRnCUnbFqE .  Nothing good came from that either. The youngsters today don't know they're born.  

[ilikekicks]

ILK, I think the main reason that the police burst in with assault weapons is because Americans are allowed to own guns...

 

So what? If they are locked in a closet or a safe, why the need to burst in with machine guns. In the instance above, they knew a 5 yr old child was in the building.. Firearms arent allowed near school areas because there are children in harms way.. yet the ' government ' can go stormtrooper and endanger the welfare of a child? Theres really no excuse.

 

' Siege ' is a great thing that many warlords and monarchs taught us in theaters of war many centuries ago. People need food and water. By all means, cut them off and surround the facilities. No need to go charging in with guns blazing.

 

The reason the enter in such a manor is to ' show force ' and try to discourage any resistance. They WANT a reason to use those weapons. People say ' Thats not true! Law Enforcement wouldnt do something like that! Thats not their attitude '.

 

Tell that to Rodney King. Guy was down, wasnt getting up, wasnt armed and they beat him. They then beat him more. They continually beat him in excess for quite a while. Not just a moment or 2, but they ( officers ) actually took breaks to regain their air/energy and then started swinging at a downed man all over. This was with clubs/nightsticks/their boots/fists. Its not just the incident of King, but there are so many videos put up on Youtube, Liveleak and all so many other sites that it seems these things happen all the time.

 

Recently, 2 officers beat a retarded woman whom was cursing on a public bus. She wasnt armed and they knew whom she was ( apparently shes been around the neighborhood, people know her as some kind of bag lady ). Beating an unarmed mentally retarded person?

 

 

Can you put ANY reason to why those officers did what they did? They then threatened the guy whom filmed it wanting his phone.

 

THAT is Government at its finest. Its preying on a society. Armed or unarmed doesnt matter. You are guilty before your even suspected of anything.

 

To your original question, I have the REAL answer :

 

"ILK, I think the main reason that the police burst in with assault weapons is because Americans are allowed to own guns..."

 

The answer is : Might makes ' Right '. Nobody whom is dead can testify. Nobody whom is dead is going to come after you for paybacks in the land of the living. If you give ' Authority ' the instruments to beat on a society, they WILL and history of the past proves this. Its about control and instilling fear.

 

' Authority ' doesnt like being questioned or asked to be civil in ANY situation. They feel they HAVE to control everything and always be the ' victor '.

I think that I'm just going to sit back and watch the crap storm. Nothing good can come from this.

 

No crap storm at all. Just an open discussion in regards to why people might feel certain ways in present circumstances.

 

And I was thinking about some comments I was going to contribute - - - 

 

Shafted - - Save me a seat on the sideline. Any time 2nd amentment segue's kick in, it's gonna be messy.

 

ILK - - Have to agree with you on about 95% 0f your discirtation (sp) - the other 5% are gimme opinions not worth bantering about.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

As I see it, there a lot of folks who have taken an ""OH WELL"" attitude.

Others tell me:

      ""It doesn't affect me because I'm not doing anything to get into trouble with the Government"".

 

Truth is - they can't see what has happened to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

 

It's unfortunate, but I see more signs of civil unrest. If that happens, and I hope it doesn't, the affects will change us, and the world as we know it. What my children will have to endure because of the last 40 - 50 years  brings a chill down my spine.

 

Heelster, its NOT about ' guns '. Its more about the mindset. Quill and Parchment has been the main cause/killing tool in most of mankinds recorded history.

 

Its not that people cannot see what has been happening to our liberties, they are just too scared to admit to themselves what they have lost. Austridges (sp?) with heads stuck in the ground.

 

"It doesn't affect me because I'm not doing anything to get into trouble with the Government"

 

A pair of NYC cops went after a perp and fired their sidearms into a crowd trying to stop this guy.

 

"The police arrived and the crowd grew. The hulking man continued on, ignoring the officers’ commands while eluding capture. Then the man reached into his pants pocket, withdrawing his hand as if it were a gun, the police said, and pretended to shoot at some of the officers.

Two officers opened fire, discharging a total of three bullets. They missed the man, but struck two women nearby, including one who had been leaning against her walker; the bullet wound to her leg sent her tumbling to the ground. Other officers rushed toward the suspect; a sergeant used a Taser on the man, and he was quickly subdued."

 

How about this one :

 

"From a distance of less than 10 feet, the officers, Craig Matthews and Robert Sinishtaj, answered in unison; one shot nine times and the other seven.

Investigators believe at least 7 of those 16 bullets struck the gunman, said Paul J. Browne, the Police Department’s chief spokesman. But the officers also struck some, if not all, of the nine bystanders who were wounded.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/nyregion/police-decision-to-shoot-in-midtown-left-9-wounded.html

To those whom say this doesnt effect them, they could have been one of the bystanders whom did nothing and were shot by the authorities.

 

Those people whom have done nothing could have been the couple whom were in their 70's in florida whom had the DEA kick in their door with a no-knock warrant for being ( alleged ) drug dealers only to have the elder woman suffer a heart attack ( and die ) and the husband to be violently taken into cuffs breaking his hips. 

 

It doesnt effect them *till it happens* to THEM. Then they realize its ' too late '.

 

It doesnt effect them that an insecure healthcare.gov website MIGHT leave all their information for hackers, like it already has.. 

 

It doesnt effect them that the ' money supply ' is manipulated and hyper-inflation and a market decline can happen if China makes a run on the dollar or actually starts putting a real value to their own currency. Heaven forbid any nation might have a gold standard still and their currency actually have a real value to it.

 

It doesnt effect them till something like what happened in ' Love Canal ' in Cheektowaga/Buffalo NY occurred. Toxic/radioactive waste just buried and hundreds of birth defective children were delivered and other children whom played at the playground built ontop of that dump came down will Leukemias and Cancers. Lotsa money trails in that one!

 

Theres just too big of a house cleaning needed and not enough people see it.

[SF]

I  the second amendment....  keeps tyrants at bay....  sf, the "non-repressed."

 

P.S. i thought we were talking about some stupid tv show or play, and slamming americans???   How in God's green earth did it evolve into this????    hhmmmmm.....?????

[ilikekicks]

I  the second amendment....  keeps tyrants at bay....  sf, the "non-repressed."

 

P.S. i thought we were talking about some stupid tv show or play, and slamming americans???   How in God's green earth did it evolve into this????    hhmmmmm.....?????

 

I as well support the provisions for those whom desire to have the means to take a stand against Tyranny by any means. There was a reason for such to be included in the Constitution.

[mtnsofheels]

Hmm...interesting...I think put another pair tights and go for a walk in the -20c with some kinky boots!

[ilikekicks]

http://news.yahoo.com/rural-america-secessionist-sentiment-stirs-050913017.html

 

The Oppression is to the point where certain areas are tired of being dictated to.

 

I now live in whats called the southern-tier of Western NY. Its all farmland. The nearest city is 30 miles away ( Buffalo ). I left the city because of all the issues with the people there. They are absolutely clueless on many aspects of life in general.

 

NYC/Albany dictates to the entire state. They ( NYC ) hold 2/3rds of all the legislature and have no clue about the life anyone outside of a ' big city ' lives.

 

Most of our water comes from a fresh well. They have sewage treatment plant. If you live in a big city, your ( probably ) drinking water from your tap that has gone through a treatment plant to have the urine and fecal matter strained from it with a lot of different chemicals ( Fluoride and Chlorine ). Your probably eating foods that have been slaughterhouse processed in mass, fowl that has been grown in coups on steroids.. They call such ' healthy living '.

 

Those same idiots whom dwell in such populated areas actually drafted a bill to say those in the south-tier needed to update a water treatment plant.. what plant? They were totally stunned there was no treatment plant.

 

They dont understand that some people still hunt for food. They dont understand that some people raise/grow their own food. The thought to them is ' They are Neanderthals! Barbarians! Tea baggers! '.

 

Those individuals whom wish to push their agenda upon everyone dont like the fact that they are irrelevant and have to use FORCE upon others in order to be relevant. Its VERY political!

 

Its a brewing powder keg.

 

As they usurp more liberty, people are waking up. The division in the United States between citizens and the ' monarchy ' grows wider by the day.

 

The Monarchy says ' You dont need assault weapons! You dont need 10 bullets to kill a deer! ' while they are surrounded by 20-30 people carrying such weapons. Why not set the example and disarm yourself first and THEN tell others, by your own example, that such things arent needed?

 

THAT is the main problem.

[Dr. Shoe]

I wonder what would happen if they banned the cops from carrying guns but still allowed citizens to own them?

[ilikekicks]

I wonder what would happen if they banned the cops from carrying guns but still allowed citizens to own them?

 

I'm being 100% sincere in this reply and can put forth what ' facts ' I do know of if requested by yourself. Im being adult about this.

 

The whole ' gun ' debate is twisted by *many* people to reflect what THEY want to see. Its HIGHLY political and in knowing such, the kool-aid drinkers of all flavors come out screaming their version of what things are.

 

These are numbers used in the U.S. , not the whole world. People are different all over and I dont want to speak for anyone I dont even vaguely represent.

 

Some tout that over 500,000 people are killed by doctors due to malpractice or incompetence. Medical field.. doctors dealing with all kinds of situations.. Being honest, im surprised the number is so low. All of those surgeries with internal organs, chemo sessions, prescription drugs and chemically altering the human body.. Its a pretty big amount of people.

 

Then theres ' Cars '. Drunk drivers, traffic infringements, joy riders.. A million people a year injured or killed. Property damage totals over a billion dollars.. THAT is a huge problem.

 

To your question, if we disarmed the Police and left law abiding citizens as they are now, predators would still go out and do what they do. If they do it with armed police AND armed citizens, they will surely prosper with one group against them being disarmed.

 

The point about firearms is.. its a ' boogey man ' situation. For even suggesting to someone that if they educated themselves about such a thing ( firearms ) will bring the wrath of *many*.

 

This past summer, I had to use one of my rifles on 2 occasions ( sort of ).

 

The first was ( literally ) a " fox in the hen house "/chicken coup. 7 hens in 3 days, 2 cocks killed trying to defend the hens. The local DEC/Game wardens cant sit on peoples property, being paid for hours, waiting on the fox. So I did it. For a private company to trap and dispose of said fox, it would have been 2500$ ( fines, out of season fees, licensing, TAX! ). Me with 2 shells at 45cents each, problem solved. An afternoon sitting ontop a barn with a few samichez and some spring water.

 

The second instance covered the whole summer and part of fall. Groundhogs were tearing everything up, digging holes.. I will make a *conservative* guess that I rid the farm of at least 200 of them ( its 12,000 acres ) and I barely put a dent into their population.

 

The children in my family ( more or less ) have a right of passage. Most of the boys already own a 22 by the time they are 10. By the time they are 13-15, they are out hunting varmint, coy dogs or coyote. Theres is also a problem with ferrel dogs.. people from the city whom dont want/cant keep their dogs anymore so they bring them out here, kick them out of their cars and leave them. Rabies and tic-disease are no friends to them and quite common. There isnt much you can do for them except end their suffering before they stray onto someones land and harm someone or livestock.

 

The exact opposite can be said for the children in the ' city ' scenario. They think a ' gat ' ( ghetto slang for gun ) makes people respect them. That if they have a firearm, THEY are the authority. THEY can ' get back ' at people whom have supposedly ' wronged ' them. Firearms to them are ' cool ' and a ' toy '. I would leave the only proof needed to justify such is the whole county in Illinois which Chicago is the main city. Firearms are completely banned in the city limits yet 500 people a year are killed there from them.

 

Its not the firearm itself, but more of the perception and attitude of the person whom is in possession of it. If they believe like the ' big city folks ' do, then there will be a problem. Usually a very bad one. If its out in the sticks where these people whom grew up with a responsible culture towards such things, theres never really a problem spoken of.

 

Another part of the division and a *serious* problem the U.S. has can be put into the same perspective.

 

Take all those deaths spoken over above. Medical, guns, cars.. take all of them and add them up. Multiply them by 5. That number is STILL lower then the amount of people whom have come to this country illegally and used up more resources then were used in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

The topic always HAS to be ' guns '. Its what a select few and the supposed ' journalists ' want to have the discussion about.

 

The same is happening in your area, the U.K. ( immigration ). You dont have firearms nor as many cars as the U.S. so the numbers will be drastically lower on both. Ive never took a serious look at the statistics about your hospitals or malpractice from the doctors over there but I believe ( all things considered ) that the U.K. would have a lower rate ( smaller population and all ). You still have a lot of bad vibes with immigration, especially from the middle east and so forth. Islam and ' Honor killings ' anyone?

 

The U.S. is following the English example and trying to just give a blanket ' acceptance ' or a kind of amnesty while the citizens whom were born there are being shelved. You *have* to adopt them and in some instances adopt their cultural differences. The thought of legislating everything always wins out and becomes a way of life for too many mindsets.

 

Thats the wick in the keg for a lot of people in the U.S. . The ' Union ' is very close to where it was in the early 1860's.

 

From what I have seen, most of those whom complain about firearms have no idea about them. They just have a belief they are ' bad '. Check this out..

 

 

Thats the Governor of NY. He says all that about hunting yet.. hes NEVER had a valid license to hunt. Hes never even taken a safety course. How would he know anything about hunting deer?

 

" Trash " like him ( my states Governor ) are being touted as a good candidate to run for the Presidency of the whole Nation. Imagine if I even stated that Hitler and Stalin thought the same thing? The ire I would draw from those whom like that piece of trash..

 

The guy is narrow minded and bought off. He wishes to tailor a whole society around his OWNERS belief system. People whom have bought and paid for that puppet.

 

Strange as it is though, he wants to disarm everyone while he has 30+ armed people with *REAL* assault weapons around him.

 

Monarchy, for sure.

 

He wont receive my vote so long as theres opposition from another party. I think its self explanatory as to ' why '. 

 

Hes in the same party that ended the medical coverage I had and now says I need to pay for Birth control, mammograms and other items when Im convex, not concave between my legs. Just glorious ' thinkers ', one and all.

 

I guess I was told I could ' keep your doctor, keep your present plan '.. so it MUST be true.. Instead, Im now going to be FORCED to shell over 450$ a month instead of the 212$ I was paying.

[nyenor]

Does ANY of this pseudo-political diatribe have anything to do with the original comment? I really don't think so. To me it looks like one persons personal view on the world. Let's keep politics right out of the group. No doubt ilikekicks will now ask, as I live on the other side of the world, what I know about what goes on in the US.