Feeding the prejudices (again)

[heelma]

This weekend was the annual "Christopher Street Day" aka "Gay Pride". This is first of all a good thing, as gays and lesbians demonstrate to be more accepted in the society. Traditionally, this is therefore a more or less provocative and political parade that takes place. However, this day remains the only time in a year, and it's really every year, where men dress up as women in striking costumes and wear heels. My guess is that they do that to draw more public attention to the event, as that's what really makes it into the media. The media wants some striking pictures for their cover pages, and one like the attached one is one of them. That's all fine, but the problem is (and that's why I am writing this post here) that these images lead many people to believe that only gay men wear heels! We all know here that this is not really true and that only a fraction of heel-wearing men is gay. Rather opposite, the few gay men I know all don't dress up as women and say that only a very small fraction of them do. However, the public only remembers those pictures and therefore thinks that men who wear heels are gay. Frankly speaking, I wonder if those folks who are gay and dress up like this on these CSD parades really do this frequently or only for this event? Is there any chance to talk to these folks and let them know that by doing what they are doing, they actually hurt others? Can't they find another way of conveying their political message?

[Bubba136]

I agree with heelma. I've often watched television news reporting such events and was disgusted with their focus on the most outlandish and theatricality exhibitionist scenes they broadcast. Such displays can't help but set back the cause of men in heels. I also disagree with the flagrant "in your face" attitude that the gay/lesbian/transgendered community presents. Although these people believe they're forcing the general public to "get over it" (were here, were queer and in your face mentality). In my experience, even if a person is inclined to be accepting of these lifestyles, such displays are so revolting to the average straight person, that any inclinations to "live and let live" are turned off...... The general public, in my opinion, would be inclined to be more sympathetic to gay lifestyles if gays didn't try to force the preference upon others and saved displaying their sexual preferences for the bedroom where no one cares what what they chose to do or with whom they chose to do.

[Tech]

Bubba I think you have been reading my mind yet again!!! Its like how many people do you know that have ever had to tell you that they are straight? Or make a deliberate attempt to demonstrate their heterosexuality in your face.... Why cant people just be proud of "who they are" and not what they do in the bedroom, and be happy with that? Oh, and how many people now keep referring to their wives, girlfriends, boyfriends etc as "My partner" Holy crap people, do you all really have such little respect for "your partner" that you have to label them with something so bland and generic so as not to give away your sexuality that you so badly want to throw in our faces all the time anyway??? The next person I meet who use's that "my partner" phrase is gonna get an earful... Its sooo dis-respectful. If your gay and have a boyfriend, so what, the world doesnt give a crap, so enough with the camp parades shutting down town centre traffic... Enough with the "look at me, I'm gay" already.

[tightsnheels]

I completely agree with all three of you. It is detrimental to us, it would seem like just being normal productive members of society would do more than red stcokings and awful wigs. Why do the rest of us have to put up with flagrant look at me attitudes? Me, me, me it seems like all you here anymore and from all kinds of groups not just gay. Atheists, PETA, MADD, people for the ethical treatment of people (not a real name but insert your march on whatever group you get the idea.) all get news time and street time. I say grow up already temper tantrums went out in kindergarten for crying out loud:mecry: .

I better turn off now I'm starting to sound like one of them.

T&H

[Histiletto]

I also agree and I would like to think people are smart enough when they hear the truth about most heelers - men and/or women - being straight, they could make that distinction. However, until they are confronted with the option of straight heelers, they have little choice but to assume crossing the social gender lines means you have a shorted, misguided circuit or you have the properties of being gay, especially if you are of the male category. There hasn't been enough education, even in this enlightened technological world of ours, about what really comprises a person. Most people take their perspectives from the traditional thinking of masculine men and feminine women and rarely understand anything that is outside of that box. Thankfully, being a heeler has given me a window to, at least, consider other points of view that may conflict with my sense of truth and there by opening another way to approach the whole picture of life. Now, I don't condone the gay movement as it has transpired, but "Gaydom" has a place in the totality of things. It has been so misunderstood by most every one, the idea continues to be flagrantly abused by its members and by those who oppose it. If there was ever a possibility of rationally combining thoughts in this area, this whole matter could be better dealt with. The only reason this hasn't seen a resolve is because there are too many people who think they know the truth and will thump their one-sided principles no matter what other reasons or truths confront them.

[johnieheel]

I wear heels because I like them. I don't need to throw it up in your face and have a parade about it because its just me and its perfectly normal behaviour to have a fashion preference that includes shoes with a heel. On the other hand I believe gays are insecure and they know deep inside that this kind of behaviour is wrong and can't except it and this is how they feel they need to express themselves for they're own personal satisfaction. I know for many the jury is still out as to where and why people are gay and I DO have some very close friends that are gay and they also know where I stand on the subject but are very open minded and respect my honesty. Please do not be offended by this comment, but don't parade down my street shouting "I"M GAY AND ITS OK" dressed up like a drag queen clown either.

[heelma]

I really don't have any issues with gays parading down the street screaming "I am gay and it's good that I am gay!" I don't think that gay men feel wrong that they are like they are, and I don't think they should. What I don't like is though that some dress up like drag queens, look as goofy as possible and hope they win the competition to get into the news. IF the majority of gay men really did dress up with heels and also otherwise like a woman, then that might be ok, too. But fact of the matter is that almost all gay men DON'T dress up like that ever, so what's the point of doing so? All they do is to mislead the public, and they even probably hurt themselves or all the gay men who don't do it, as the general public laughs at them. Moreover, the general public doesn't know better and keeps associating this completely wrong picture of men wearing heels with gay!

[HappyFeat]

It seems that everybody has a soap box! That's the wonderful thing about the Internet is that it allows you to voice opinions. So don't be offended if I respectfully disagree and pose a counter point. In the end if you want to wear heels maybe its best if you don't give a crap about what the general public thinks. In the end, does it really matter if people think that you are gay? Come on, I was asked if I was gay because I wore an orange dress shirt! People assume a lot of things about people they see every day. People assume a guy in heels is gay. They also assume that you have a foot fetish. They assume that maybe you are an exhibitionist. Who knows what else they assume. I have no idea how any of this relates to PETA, or Atheists, or whomever. Even as far as gays are concerned, most crossdressers I know are straight. The sociological evidence supports that fact. In fact, the MOST resistance that I have EVER received from wearing heels has been from gay men. But by being confident and comfortable in who I am, I have earned respect from many people who thought assigned reasons (gay, fetish, etc.) at first glance to simply become accepted as a guy with great taste in foot wear. Further, if you do not want to feel discriminated against, then don't go against the crowd. One thing I have learned from HHPlace is that there are many diverse thoughts, however the one thing that everybody exhibits (particularly the men) is a great deal of courage. If you read the posts, even many women who come here would never date a guy who wears heels for many superficial reasons; they know we are not all gay and we even share a common interest! People have posted condescending things toward people who are into fetish items on this site. The discrimination exists even in our own community. In the end, we are made up of men, women, gays, straights, fetishists (if that's a word,) cross dressers, transvestites, drag performers, liberals, conservatives, young, old, bald, etc. If we continue to desire a more narrow definition of what is appropriate to be a guy in heels, the movement dies here. Show the courage, suffer the slings and arrows gracefully, and only care what people think when it comes to presenting yourself well. The rest takes care of itself. If recent world events haven't given any indication, the "general public" has a collective IQ of about 50, s don't give them too much credit. Do what you are going to do. Be proud of who you are. Let others do the same, whether you agree and disagree. If we do not give respect to others, even in their stupidity, then how do we ever expect to earn it ourselves. That's my soap box...

[Trolldeg]

Frankly speaking, I wonder if those folks who are gay and dress up like this on these CSD parades really do this frequently or only for this event?

Is there any chance to talk to these folks and let them know that by doing what they are doing, they actually hurt others? Can't they find another way of conveying their political message?

Those are drag queens. They dress as women for shows, balls, and parties, very rarely for everyday life. And they probably don't give a crap about your "cause". They are not striving for public acceptance of men wearing heels, so why would they?

The general public, in my opinion, would be inclined to be more sympathetic to gay lifestyles if gays didn't try to force the preference upon others and saved displaying their sexual preferences for the bedroom where no one cares what what they chose to do or with whom they chose to do.

Most homosexuals, in my opinion, would be inclined to be more sympathetic to straight lifestyles if straights didn't try to force their preference upon others and saved displaying their sexual preferences for the bedroom where no one cares what what they chose to do or with whom they chose to do.

Its like how many people do you know that have ever had to tell you that they are straight? Or make a deliberate attempt to demonstrate their heterosexuality in your face....

Are you kidding? It's done all the time. It's manifested throughout western society constantly. It's the NORM. You just don't see it, because you are part of it.

Some of the comments in this thread show EXACTLY why there needs to be gay pride parades over and over and over again, until you don't care enough to write a narrow minded rant in a forum...

[fastfreddy2]

WOW! Touched a nerve here or what?

I'm not gay, nor am I a drag queen, so I've no vested in the parades. But if some bloke wants to put on some womens attire, with some other blokes who also have on some womens attire, why would I complain?

I'm all for people doing what they want, no matter what their sexual orientation. I'm also pretty cool about men wearing womens clothes. I'd be hypercritical if I weren't.

As for the news media picking the loudest most colourful outfits, why would they choose any other?

Certainly in the UK where discrimination of this sort is (rightly) illegal, seems to me this is just an excuse for a party. Good for them.

....

[johnieheel]

A gay lady friend at work once told me, "I don't care if your straight if you don't care if I'm gay".

That pretty much summed it up for me.

[heelma]

In the end if you want to wear heels maybe its best if you don't give a crap about what the general public thinks. In the end, does it really matter if people think that you are gay? Come on, I was asked if I was gay because I wore an orange dress shirt!

[...]

Further, if you do not want to feel discriminated against, then don't go against the crowd.

This is just not the point. I know what you are talking about along the lines of your orange shirt. The difference is that that's a men's shirt, not a women's shirt. It goes more like the question that was asked somewhere else here, where the girls are being asked if they are comfortable wearing heels everywhere, and the bottom line was that some think they feel uncomfortable wearing certain styles or heel heights in order not to be seen as slutty, etc.

However, what I wanted to bring up is that obviously, the public opinion, that men wearing heels are gay, is wrong twice: not only that a man who wears heels must be gay, but moreover, hardly any gay man does!

So, I really don't get it why these folks simply confirm the prejudices on those parades while this really has nothing to do with being gay or not being gay. They not only fail to make a stronger case for the gays but they also mislead the public about men wearing women's clothes.

[heelma]

Those are drag queens. They dress as women for shows, balls, and parties, very rarely for everyday life. And they probably don't give a crap about your "cause". They are not striving for public acceptance of men wearing heels, so why would they?

Do they give a crap about the gay's cause? Are those semi-professionals really all gay? The way you write it here makes it almost sound like they just come to the parades for other reasons.

Some of the comments in this thread show EXACTLY why there needs to be gay pride parades over and over and over again, until you don't care enough to write a narrow minded rant in a forum...

I was also surprised about the wording of some comments here.

[billyb]

To me if some one is gay or not is thier buisness, and if they want to have a parade then fine if I choose not whatch it then that my choice. In my post about the encounter at the auto dealer with the 3 female sales consultants based on their remarks I think that the picture in their mind of men in heels is that picture Heelma posted and that I beleve hurts our cause to show that men can wear heels and look nice not all goofy like ones in that picture.

[Trolldeg]

To me if some one is gay or not is thier buisness, and if they want to have a parade then fine if I choose not whatch it then that my choice. In my post about the encounter at the auto dealer with the 3 female sales consultants based on their remarks I think that the picture in their mind of men in heels is that picture Heelma posted and that I beleve hurts our cause to show that men can wear heels and look nice not all goofy like ones in that picture.

But it's not the same thing! They are dragqueens, not "men in heels". And I think they look a lot less goofy than most "men in heels" I've seen on these forums.

[benno]

As I've said before. I find transvestism sexist. Not the I hate women/men kind of sexist, more 'the way the world is' kind of sexism. In particular the kinds of trannys that annoy me most are... Drag queens dong the 'I'm such a slut and I love cock' parody of a loose woman. And drag kings doing the 'I'm a lumberjack and I'm gonna chop down trees with my massive penis' act. What I find most amusing is that drag queens/kings are usually gay and often will complain about being stereotyped because they are gay. As I said initially it's not always the fault of the person, but more indicative of the ridculous society we choose to tolerate. More often than not it's a hideous parody of something the person wishes to be or secretly hates. I would say the remedies are: A. Have a sex change B. Wear whatever you like as your own sex. Don't pretend to be anything else. It's deceitful. So wear what you want but please don't pretend to be something you are not. I am simply a man in good clothes, and nothing else. Cheers, Ben

[roniheels]

A year ago in our city, there was a gay pride parade and many of the participants dressed and acted more flamboyantly than the ones pictured above. One of my co-workers is a gay man (he and I have worked together for almost 30 years) and he has commented about some of the riddiculous wardrobe and behavior of participants in events like that. He hasn't ever gone into detail, but he has made the comment that it is not what being gay is about.

[heelma]

A year ago in our city, there was a gay pride parade and many of the participants dressed and acted more flamboyantly than the ones pictured above. One of my co-workers is a gay man (he and I have worked together for almost 30 years) and he has commented about some of the riddiculous wardrobe and behavior of participants in events like that. He hasn't ever gone into detail, but he has made the comment that it is not what being gay is about.

Exactly - that's what I hear over and over again as well.

So please, who can tell me why those folks do it, and why apparently no gay guy is bothered by them, if they misrepresent the gay community?

[Bubba136]

Perhaps Trolldeg can best answer this question. From the way he's responded, he seems to have a pretty good handle on situations like these.

[hhboots]

Well, it's just the way of the world, the media always focuses on the most eye catching images that will sell the most, and its the mass consumer that eats that crap up. For those events, perhaps the drag queens take it as an excuse to dress up as slutty as possible to get the most attention and have fun in being as extreme as possible and enjoying the looks they get. Whatever the reason its everyone's right to do what they want I guess. Sure it probably is not good for this community, or even for everyone in the gay community for that matter to get that kind of attention. I know this web site has a very broad spectrum of men, we have one commonality, a love for shoes (even our opinion on shoes can vary greatly), but beyond that even this small community shows how diverse the world is at large. At first glance, someone might try to categorize us on this site with one title, but there are TVs, TGs, CDs, bi's, gay, straight, fetishists, married, single, closet this, openly that, and everything you can imagine in between. We are all unique and all feel differently about things we see around us. So yes there will be a wide range of reactions to these events, we can't all be happy about or even agree about everything. But again, its just the way of the world and we all have our own unique views about the world. I bet even that parade itself, they have a huge range of participants, those pictured are probably in the minority there too. Not sure I even made a point there, but there you have a 30+ second ramble from me on this matter

[flavio]

I actually liked the picture (I'm not gay) and I live in the city with the largest gay pride parade of the world (it's in the Guiness Book) and I think that everyone is free to show to the world what wants to be and the gay parade is a perfect place to be free without beeing fingerpointed. Every minority should have the right to have the space to show up it's prides.

[heelma]

[...]I think that everyone is free to show to the world what wants to be and the gay parade is a perfect place to be free without beeing fingerpointed.

You can say it differently: while all of us men who wear heels in public have to deal with "fingerpointing", these folks here go on a parade like this and enjoy being photographed. So, why don't they step forward and walk around, dressed just like that, in everyday life then? If you really mean it, then don't only do it on a parade like that, but be as courageous as all of us here!

[fastfreddy2]

So, why don't they step forward and walk around, dressed just like that, in everyday life then? If you really mean it, then don't only do it on a parade like that, but be as courageous as all of us here!

It's their choice to make, not yours.

If you want to Rule the World, either start an Army or run for President. We either have free expression, or we don't. Judging by the way you condemn this group, you'd rather there wasn't free expression?

Bit strange given you are yourself, member of a minority group struggling for its own position in society?

....

[heelma]

It's their choice to make, not yours.

If you want to Rule the World, either start an Army or run for President. We either have free expression, or we don't. Judging by the way you condemn this group, you'd rather there wasn't free expression?

Bit strange given you are yourself, member of a minority group struggling for its own position in society?

....

Missing the point. It's obviously not that they should be forbidden to do anything, but rather that it's quite cowardly to just do it that openly in parades like this and not in everyday occasions.

[fastfreddy2]

Missing the point. It's obviously not that they should be forbidden to do anything, but rather that it's quite cowardly to just do it that openly in parades like this and not in everyday occasions.

I get the point, I just don't happen to agree with your view on they should be doing. Live your own life, not someone elses?

In your version of the world, men should either wear heels all the time, or never at all. How realistic is that idea? In two words: 'completely ridiculous'.

"We" (us here) struggle to get men HH wearers to a yearly meet behind closed doors. How realistic is insisting they wear HH in public on a 24/7 schedule?

My final words on the thread:

You show signs of having an unnaturally strong condemnation for this group. Perhaps there is a hidden agenda in your message, but believe me, the longer you continue your tirade against this (or any other group) the weaker your point becomes.

....

[Stilettoscot]

Missing the point. It's obviously not that they should be forbidden to do anything, but rather that it's quite cowardly to just do it that openly in parades like this and not in everyday occasions.

I'm not sure if I agree. I can see where you're coming from, but...

Let's put it this way, I go out in 5-6" heels to clubs, with friends, and enjoy myself immensely. But, I would have a tough time feeling even close to as "free" during "everyday occasions" (ie, everyday life like you think these people should dress, also). Is this cowardly?

[heelma]

In your version of the world, men should either wear heels all the time, or never at all. How realistic is that idea? In two words: 'completely ridiculous'.

[...]

You show signs of having an unnaturally strong condemnation for this group. Perhaps there is a hidden agenda in your message, but believe me, the longer you continue your tirade against this (or any other group) the weaker your point becomes.

....

1. I never said "either never or always". That's you who lays these words into my mouth. I am only saying that instead of only going to these parades, why don't they show it somewhere else also (sometimes, not always!), if they are so proud of themselves to show it?

2. "Condemnation for this group" is too strong. My main point remains that these folks a) feed the prejudices that heel-wearing men must be gay (as those gay parades are the only time when nearly every newspaper or TV shows pictures of heel-wearing men and apparently misrepresent what gay is about.

[heelma]

I'm not sure if I agree. I can see where you're coming from, but...

Let's put it this way, I go out in 5-6" heels to clubs, with friends, and enjoy myself immensely. But, I would have a tough time feeling even close to as "free" during "everyday occasions" (ie, everyday life like you think these people should dress, also). Is this cowardly?

Alright, I understand your point here.

The difference though is that you are not seeking the publicity that those folks seek. On the one hand, they dress up like that in public parades and like to be photographed, etc. On the other hand, where are they when they are not in such parades? I bet you're not climbing up the bar table and show off your heels when you go out, right? So, if they are that proud of what they are showing off at those parades, including eagerly looking for cameras, so that their picture is shown in next day's papers, why aren't they ever seen publicly (outside TV clubs and shows) anywhere else throughout the rest of the year?

[shyguy]

How do you know they're not? If they're not looking for the attention at any other time then they could be regularly wearing heels etc. but not noticed or brought to your attention.

[Stilettoscot]

I bet you're not climbing up the bar table and show off your heels when you go out, right?

Actually...guilty as charged this past Saturday at the club after quite a few..LOL

While your point of the people in the pics hammering the notion that only "gays" wear heels (which we all know is far from true), I guess it's up to you and I to prove differently.

Last several times in the club, and out in public near them, I have had lots of positive attention from women while wearing my heels. After the usual round of "why" questions, the majority always ask if I am gay, and seem to not immediately believe I am not when I answer, even though I am far from "feminine" in my overall appearance. But, once they believe me (I DID have to "prove" this point to one girl I met in the wee hours this past weekend after the club.. ), the conversation is opened, and flows.

So, when a parade which comes once a year goes on near you, why not participate, get attention, and show a well styled, high heel wearing man to the cameras?