Master Resource: General Public Discussions of men in heels

[Cali]

No, it was the five female manicurist and two female clients. I could care less about hockey.

[Shyheels]

That was a joke

[Heelster]

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

That was a joke

 ------- I got it - - - !!

 

[CAT]

4 hours ago, Cali said:

No, it was the five female manicurist and two female clients. I could care less about hockey.

Hockey is one  ob the best sports there is   Toughest of all athletes and some of the lowest paid 

[Cali]

There was almost no hockey played on the beaches of southern California when I was growing up.

[kneehighs]

On 8/17/2017 at 10:01 AM, Gudulitooo said:

Kneehighs,
Thank you for these findings.
There is something I don't understand in these articles about mens "fashion" featuring heels in Vogue magazine or the likes.
1) There is roughly one or two each year, maybe at specific times but I did not study this Great observation.  I haven't studied it either.
2) I don't know many men reading these magazines except in a waiting room at the dentist's. In France, men may follow things like "belle gueule" or "Men's Health", but much more often they will read about sport results.  Another great point.  I haven't seen a men's fashion publication really support men in heels (besides cuban or cowboy boots) either.
3) I did not check the other articles (and maybe interests) of the writer, but for the last ones it was 99,99% women fashion.
So my question is, are these writers somehow forced to write the article about men in heels each year ? How do they decide who will take the burden ?
Nope, they're not forced to.  I think female editors of fashion publications are generally interested in novel and fresh takes of fashion for men.  It would be nice if they circulated their openness on GQ, Mens Health, or the Rake though.  I'm not sure if the writers pitch their editors out of self interest, if the editors need content that's controversial to drive traffic, or what the deciding factor is to be honest.

 

[Shyheels]

These days numbers of clicks  are a major driving force in editorial decisions. It makes for much shallower journalism, but today's editors don't really give a damn about quality journalism - just clicks....

[Cali]

2 hours ago, Shyheels said:

These days numbers of clicks  are a major driving force in editorial decisions. It makes for much shallower journalism, but today's editors don't really give a damn about quality journalism - just clicks....

Bean counter mentality.  It's pervasive throughout the world.  Quality vs Quantity and quantity is now the rage.

[Shyheels]

I know this all too well. The plummeting standards and total lack of concern for (or even awareness of) professionalism and/or quality is truly dispiriting 

[Puffer]

1 hour ago, Shyheels said:

I know this all too well. The plummeting standards and total lack of concern for (or even awareness of) professionalism and/or quality is truly dispiriting 

An all-too-true comment that can be applied to most 'business' activities these days, not just to journalism.

[Shyheels]

But shoddiness is so horribly visual in journalism and by its very nature is so widely "reported" and even more horribly pervasive and influential.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Shyheels

[Puffer]

6 hours ago, Shyheels said:

But shoddiness is so horribly visual in journalism and by its very nature is so widely "reported" and even more horribly pervasive and influential.

Yes, indeed.   Poor use of language alone advertises itself so obviously on the page.   I often wonder how the writer (or sub-editor - if there is one) ever passed O-level English Language.   But then again, the standard displayed by many school teachers is nothing to be proud of and, presumably, exam standards reflect this.   Effective communication lies at the heart of any commercial activity; some defibrillation is badly needed by many!

[Gudulitooo]

http://dilei.it/lifestyle/vi-immaginate-un-uomo-con-i-tacchi-alti-ecco-le-scarpe-di-laurentin-cosmos/502239/

The guy was already spotted by hhplace members : https://hhplace.org/topic/24167-laurentin-cosmos/

I suppose that he managed to have his article published in the frame of his marketing activity.

This may give a clue on my previous questions regarding the small but steady number of articles regarding heels for guys in fashion magazines. The targeted male customers may effectively lie among the few but enlightened male readers of these magazines.

Another explanation would be that, through these articles, women are questioning the sexuality -and availability - of their male icons, such as for Harry Styles (have a look at youtube)

Edited August 25, 2017 by Gudulitooo

[kneehighs]

Laurentin Cosmos ran a Kickstarter Campaign to measure marketplace demand for genderless heels.  

• The campaign raised about 1050 € from 6 backers out of a goal of about 80,683 €.  
• He still sells the genderless heels though on his site: http://laurentincosmos.com/.  
• Price points range from 400-750 €.  I don't know if this is "made on demand" or what his supply chain looks like.  Probably his partner in Milan has the manufacturing side figured out.
• The Facebook Page is well done: https://www.facebook.com/laurentincosmos 
• The Instagram Page is also well done: https://www.instagram.com/laurentincosmos/
• According to this article in Dilei.it, Laurent is heterosexual.  

 

His video is well done, IMHO. 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by kneehighs

[Shyheels]

I wonder about this idea of "genderless heels". It has been my impression and belief that boots and shoes have no gender anyway, other than what is arbitrarily assigned to them by society and fashion, so how does one make a "genderless heel"? Surely it is going to look like any other high-heeled shoe or boot given the range and shapes and heights of heels already on the market. 

Presumably then, the "genderless" aspect of their heels comes from their being made available in larger sizes.  Frankly, this does not sound terribly original, not really a whole lot different than some of the companies one hears about on this site - Italian Heels, say, or Jean Gaborit - both of whom make high quality shoes and boots available in sizes up to 48 - a size range that obviously includes both sexes.

It does not surprise me at all to read that his funding fell far, far short of his goal, however nice his Facebook page, Instagram account or video might be. 

On a similar vein there was an article in yesterday's Guardian about the supposed rise of genderless, unisex clothing https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/sep/04/joy-unisex-gender-neutral-clothing-john-lewis

If you read the article you'll see that this radical new rise of "genderless" or "unisex" clothing is confined to shirts, T-shirts, jeans and waistcoats - no mention of footwear whatsoever, let alone heels. Indeed, it is made clear in the article, that the object of this brave new direction in fashion is being made purely to make women feel more comfortable about shopping for what might have been considered male-oriented fashions, not the other way around. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Shyheels

[Puffer]

Shyheels is absolutely right about the lack of originality in the Cosmos project.   All he is doing is supplying some high-heeled shoes and boots of a conventional (female) style in larger sizes with the aim of selling them to men as well as women - an aim that will not be fully realised anyway if the sizing stops at 45, helpful though that is, and the prices remain at the present unrealistically-high levels.   Yes, he is promoting his ideas in an intelligent and passionate manner (with no obvious off-putting fetish or CD overtone) but that is just 'marketing' rather than delivery.   Too much theory; not enough practice, I fear.

[Gudulitooo]

7 hours ago, kneehighs said:

• The campaign raised about 1050 € from 6 backers out of a goal of about 80,683 €.  
• He still sells the genderless heels though on his site: http://laurentincosmos.com/.  
• Price points range from 400-750 €.  I don't know if this is "made on demand" or what his supply chain looks like.  Probably his partner in Milan has the manufacturing side figured out.

I suppose this prices come from the fact he couldn't raise investment money ? Though he is cheaper than Mauro Vera (store)

6 hours ago, Shyheels said:

I wonder about this idea of "genderless heels"

I answered the same question on another forum about what makes a skirt manly. ("the legs underneath"). I should have said "the guy wearing it".

Same answer: the only way to say a garment is "genderless" is to find it worn by both genders. Women wear skirts or heels so the stores market skirts or heels to women period.

All Cosmos can do is noticing some guys are into wearing heels, then he can market heels to men (these men that are into heels), in turn supporting the movement.

Only problem is to match the actual number of guys actually desiring to wear heels to the ones that are able to afford 500 $ a pair (that means : are able to set their choice on a few pairs). YSL did it with his boots. But he proposed only one pair, which was genious.

 

2 hours ago, Puffer said:

Shyheels is absolutely right about the lack of originality in the Cosmos project

Yet many commercial successes were not original at the beginning, but they did things instead of speaking about doing .

[Shyheels]

Yes, but others are already doing. 

I'm giving serious consideration to inventing Facebook instead of just talking about it. Who wants to crowd-fund me? 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Shyheels

[pebblesf]

I can't really comment on Cosmos' heel selection or pricing, but will say he looks great and is a positive influence for men who might be interested in wearing heels....

[Puffer]

6 hours ago, Shyheels said:

Yes, but others are already doing. 

I'm giving serious consideration to inventing Facebook instead of just talking about it. Who wants to crowd-fund me? 

I might be prepared to invest in someone who would eliminate Facebook.   Far too much time and effort is spent on such trivia by people who ought to know better - and by Trump, who clearly knows little of substance about anything. 

[Shyheels]

The Twitter Storm has redefined the Tempest in a Teapot 

[Heelster]

I checked out the Cosmos project Facebook page. He has some good points in his video.

If the U.S. was moving forward, he might get somewhere in this market. As I've joked before regarding the Right Wing Neanderthals in this country, they seem to be gaining ground as of late.

 - - - It's gonna be awhile - - !!

 

[Shyheels]

A bit harsh on the Neanderthals, me thinks. There is no particular reason for believing that the real Neanderthals were thuggish boors; indeed recent research has suggested their brain cavities were rather larger than ours!  

[Gudulitooo]

On 05/09/2017 at 1:25 PM, Shyheels said:

Yes, but others are already doing. 

I'm giving serious consideration to inventing Facebook instead of just talking about it. Who wants to crowd-fund me? 

1. with the size of the potential market (heels for men), there is room for many

2. busted speaking :-)

[Shyheels]

Fine, there's room for many but that doesn't make him original. And I am not so sure that the market for men's size heels in the €400-750 price range is really all that big. Prince died last year. 

[Gudulitooo]

14 minutes ago, Shyheels said:

Fine, there's room for many but that doesn't make him original. And I am not so sure that the market for men's size heels in the €400-750 price range is really all that big. Prince died last year. 

Totally agree.

Though through checking these links regularly, http://yooying.com/tag/Hedislimane and http://sirstyle.tumblr.com/ I found a large number of guys (several 10th at least) have bought the YSL heeled boots worth >700 $ each. (or they all tried the same pair one after another ...). That would be enough to run a small store managed by one person or a couple (as e.g. custom made boots).

So there is a small market, but it still clearly does not support the development and maintenance of a collection with many models in all sizes, and of course all up to the last fashion standards every season... A problem Cosmos (and Vera) will have to deal with.

Not even speaking of the fact that Cosmos communication is based on gender equality, while YSL targeted bad boys, even though Slimane also found a female public it seems.

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Gudulitooo

[Shyheels]

Sure, there is a small core market but I would guess that it is already very well serviced by the small number of custom boot makers and shoe makers who do make heels in men's sizes - and yet who do not seem to be rolling in wealth, either. If this guy really wants to get himself a slice of this very small and thinly distributed pie, he is going to need to come up with something a little more grabby than "hey, look, I am making heels up to size 45"

That might seem cool and novel to him but I'll bet there are any number of members on this site who can name several companies already doing that same thing and making very nice products  - and several more who've gone out of business trying.

Comparisons with YSL don't really work. YSL can get away with such things, to a modest extent, because they have a global brand and a lot of financial clout - if they lose a bit of money catering to a fringe, but grab some cool headlines at the start of one season, so what? Good trade. Then they move on to the next brief cool thing.

I doubt very much this guy has pockets that deep. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Shyheels

[Heelster]

13 hours ago, Shyheels said:

A bit harsh on the Neanderthals, me thinks. There is no particular reason for believing that the real Neanderthals were thuggish boors; indeed recent research has suggested their brain cavities were rather larger than ours!  

From a paleontologist viewpoint, Your probably correct, From a more recent viewpoint, that larger brain cavity is just that - space for air.

Recent current events and the praise that have accompanied them have me wondering how so many people even accomplished the act of voting.

I will leave it at that.

[Shyheels]

I am not so sure that the modern versions of what you describe as "Neanderthal" are blessed with the larger brain cavity of the true Neanderthals who lived during the last ice age.

[Gudulitooo]

On 06/09/2017 at 4:52 PM, Shyheels said:

Sure, there is a small core market but I would guess that it is already very well serviced by the small number of custom boot makers and shoe makers who do make heels in men's sizes - and yet who do not seem to be rolling in wealth, either. If this guy really wants to get himself a slice of this very small and thinly distributed pie, he is going to need to come up with something a little more grabby than "hey, look, I am making heels up to size 45"

To me Cosmos targets people that will "buy at a glance" (I hope google translation is right), and not the buyers that could go through the whole custom made process.

Having a look at ebay, amazon or aliexpress, there are indeed plenty of large size high heels sellers (even payless is on amazon !). They are presented by lovely female models. Or with the mention "ideal for crossdressers and transvestitites". You just have to browse the women section, shoes, and filter by size.

However almost all (except the ones here) men don't buy the slightest thing in the womens part of a store, even unisex, fearing being mocked at by other men (or their own subconscious) and losing their alpha status. (note that YSL approach does save the aplha status thanks to the brand). Of course you still can buy online, but what do you say to your relatives that open the door when the postman comes with a nice flowery parcel ? Or see you browsing the women section ? It still requires the same open minds.

You are right, it would be straightforward for these sellers to align their communication on Cosmos', and crush his business hopes. How many will dare to do it, Instead of talking about it ?

As an example, I and some others tried to convince a french "pleaser type high heels" reseller to change his marketing by including references to men. This seller is highly receptive as he has a large fraction of shoes sold to men. He actually changed a few of the shoes descriptions in the online store (!!) this year, adding that the shoes can be worn also by men. But I think he still missed something that Cosmos captured well.

On 06/09/2017 at 4:52 PM, Shyheels said:

Comparisons with YSL don't really work. YSL can get away with such things, to a modest extent, because they have a global brand and a lot of financial clout - if they lose a bit of money catering to a fringe, but grab some cool headlines at the start of one season, so what? Good trade. Then they move on to the next brief cool thing.

Of course, YSL does different things, but he still managed to put a number of guys on heels, for the sake of wearing heels for some, but you are true, mainly for the sake of wearing the last YSL. Anyway they walked the heels. Maybe Campbell's Litas are closer to what YSL did.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Gudulitooo
Adding too many ideas in the same post