The High Heeled Ruminations Of Melrose Plant

[Shyheels]

Most people would assume “casual” in terms of dress referred to the situation or circumstance in which the item of clothing or footwear is being worn - as opposed to “formal”

A hiking or mountaineering boot is also chunky, deliberately so, but unless you are wearing them while mountaineering or hiking along a trail, they would be considered casual wear and unsuitable for the office or dressy “formal” occasions.

[mlroseplant]

11 hours ago, Puffer said:

I agree that a plain(ish) single-sole stiletto court/pump with a pointed toe is the classic 'dressy' shoe for most occasions - simple but effective.   But I find it hard to equate a platform shoe with a 'more casual' look; its intentionally heavier/chunkier appearance suggests the opposite, surely?   And even more so the increasingly common 'work boot' styles with thick cleated soles and bulbous toes - casual only in the sense of being the opposite of elegant.   It seems to me that truly casual footwear has to be something like a ballet flat, a canvas plimsoll (sneaker) or a rubber flip-flop.   

For once, you have me stumped. You must be using a different definition of "casual" from what I intended, and I can't figure out what definition that might be. What I meant by "casual" is that which is worn in non-formal situations in one's leisure time. To be sure, the popular definition of "formal" has shifted a lot during my lifetime, but I am talking about situations like grocery shopping or sightseeing, where one is highly unlikely to be wearing a jacket and a tie (or some floor length, flowing dress). The platforms go better with the casual look than with more formal, dressier looks.

[Cali]

What's a tie?  Something from history books?  I think I wore a tie maybe 3 times during the last 30 years.

[Shyheels]

Same here. I don’t even own a tie. I borrowed one when I had tea at the Ritz - strictly no admittance to men without a tie - but I think that’s the only time I’ve worn one since the late 80s or early 90s

[mlroseplant]

How about we let the girls have our neckties, and, in exchange, we will take their heels. I see a lot of girls wearing neckties these days.

[Shyheels]

We’d only be taking the heels back - they were originally masculine!

[Puffer]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:53 AM, mlroseplant said:

For once, you have me stumped. You must be using a different definition of "casual" from what I intended, and I can't figure out what definition that might be. What I meant by "casual" is that which is worn in non-formal situations in one's leisure time. To be sure, the popular definition of "formal" has shifted a lot during my lifetime, but I am talking about situations like grocery shopping or sightseeing, where one is highly unlikely to be wearing a jacket and a tie (or some floor length, flowing dress). The platforms go better with the casual look than with more formal, dressier looks.

I too find it hard to reconcile these concepts.   Yes, casual = non-formal, which surely implies some simplicity and utilitarianism in style and look, with minimal embellishment?   Since when has a shoe or boot with an intentionally built-up platform sole (as distinct from a cleated sole for grip) been other than embellished for effect rather than need?   (One might thus argue that any 'high heel' cannot be casual, but a modest cuban/block/wedge heel at least could be considered as an integral part of many otherwise plain/casual shoe styles.)   If I saw someone in high(ish) platform shoes - or indeed modest single-sole stilettos - out shopping for groceries, I would hesitate to call their dress 'casual', even if the activity is clearly both 'casual' and 'informal'.    That all said, I can accept that concepts have changed over the years.   In the early 1960s, a woman would be as likely to wear a pair of mid-heeled stilettos as she would a pair of slip-on flats for almost any informal activity, but nowadays the heels (with or without a platform) would (alas) be mostly kept for what little remains of formal/dressy activity.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Puffer
typo

[Shyheels]

Let’s put it this way, you’re never likely to see platforms worn in a formal setting.

[mlroseplant]

There's always one, isn't there? Pianist Yuja Wang continues to wear enormous platforms at her concerts/recitals, even as such shoes have gone out of style. One could argue about what constitutes a formal setting nowadays, but a classical music concert (as a performer) is the only time I ever have cause to wear a tuxedo, ever. I don't play in an orchestra anymore, but the last time I did, I'm pretty such I wore platforms with my tux. I think if I had to choose today, I would probably wear single sole.

12 hours ago, Puffer said:

I too find it hard to reconcile these concepts.   Yes, casual = non-formal, which surely implies some simplicity and utilitarianism in style and look, with minimal embellishment?   Since when has a shoe or boot with an intentionally built-up platform sole (as distinct from a cleated sole for grip) been other than embellished for effect rather than need?   (One might thus argue that any 'high heel' cannot be casual, but a modest cuban/block/wedge heel at least could be considered as an integral part of many otherwise plain/casual shoe styles.)   If I saw someone in high(ish) platform shoes - or indeed modest single-sole stilettos - out shopping for groceries, I would hesitate to call their dress 'casual', even if the activity is clearly both 'casual' and 'informal'.    That all said, I can accept that concepts have changed over the years.   In the early 1960s, a woman would be as likely to wear a pair of mid-heeled stilettos as she would a pair of slip-on flats for almost any informal activity, but nowadays the heels (with or without a platform) would (alas) be mostly kept for what little remains of formal/dressy activity.

I am evidently a curiosity among the employees at my usual supermarket, and they are becoming more vocal about it, as they slowly realize that I'm not going to become irritated with them. Last week I had my list ready, and I purchased my weekly comestibles directly after church, wearing the sort of pinkish outfit and the single sole stiletto pumps pictured several replies above. A couple of hours later, I realized that I had not read my recipe carefully enough, and had to return to the store, this time wearing jeans, t-shirt, and heeled wooden mules of the type that I usually wear for most of the warmer months in casual situations.

A female worker commented on my outfit change, which took me a little bit by surprise, as there must have been hundreds of other customers through that store between my visits. I explained that the first time I was wearing church clothes, and that now I was.  .  . obviously NOT. I wonder what kind of conversation/gossip THAT generated in the break room.

[Puffer]

I think, upon reflection, that we have failed somewhat in these comments to distinguish 'casual activity' from 'casual dress'.   They ought to correspond (within sensible limits), but often don't - especially with the growing trend of people wearing casual (and sometimes sloppy) outfits for activity of a formal or semi-formal nature.   We can all think of examples, and not just the torn jeans and flip-flops at the dinner party.   

The trend to dress 'up' in a casual setting, if at all, is alas becoming rarer.   This is one reason why I don't go out so much these days (to socialise or otherwise) as there is no longer either any encouragement or much incentive to 'make an effort' after a day spent in 'retirement casual wear' - especially as my wife is reluctant to bother to look 'different', even though she would have good reason, or excuse, to explore her wardrobe.

[mlroseplant]

I believe we have also failed to explore the role that footwear plays in determining whether an outfit lies on the dressier side of the line, or whether it lies on the more casual side. I believe that at the extreme ends, that is, the most casual and the most dressy outfits, the types of footwear one must use is more rigid, without running the risk of looking ridiculous or at least odd.

Pictured below and juxtaposed are the same exact shoes with different types of outfits. One is a reproduction of the picture taken a week ago, which is evidently universally loved by all, and the other is a picture of the same shoes when I first got them, and was taken for the purpose of showing the shoes only. My point is that the shoes do not make the second outfit any more dressy or less casual. In fact, to my mind, it just looks odd, like I had put on my men's dress oxfords with shorts and a t-shirt. The other outfit, which is far more dressy, but not really all that dressy, could be affected drastically by changing the shoes.

At the other end of the spectrum, wearing sneakers with a tuxedo just looks dumb. Oddly enough, at the extreme dressy end of the (usually) female spectrum, you never see single sole pumps, do you?

[Puffer]

12 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

... Oddly enough, at the extreme dressy end of the (usually) female spectrum, you never see single sole pumps, do you?

Not sure I understand your point here.   What footwear are you suggesting that a woman would wear in 'extreme dressy' mode?   Single sole pumps or sandals (usually with highish stiletto heels) seem to be current/recent favourites, surely? 

[mlroseplant]

11 hours ago, Puffer said:

Not sure I understand your point here.   What footwear are you suggesting that a woman would wear in 'extreme dressy' mode?   Single sole pumps or sandals (usually with highish stiletto heels) seem to be current/recent favourites, surely? 

My point is that the usual footwear with very formal dresses is sandals, not pumps. The irony of this is that extreme formal situations (white or black tie events) always call for a floor length gown, and therefore who cares what you've got on your feet? Nobody can see your feet.

___________

Moving along in the wrong direction, according to some, I once again explored my Michael Kors round-toed brown pumps, which I have owned for several years. I always think I like them, but without a little bit of fiddling, they are never going to work out in my world. The problem is that I can easily walk right out of them at any moment, and sometimes the wrong moment. This despite the fact that they are on the tight side at the front. As a result of this, I don't walk well in them, and my feet tire more rapidly than they should.

I have thought about trying different combinations of fitment aids to try to get these to be more wearable, but then, I'm not sure that their aesthetic value warrants it. What say you? They are the only dark brown shoes that I own, so that color palette would either be extinguished, or would need to be replaced.

[Puffer]

10 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

My point is that the usual footwear with very formal dresses is sandals, not pumps. The irony of this is that extreme formal situations (white or black tie events) always call for a floor length gown, and therefore who cares what you've got on your feet? Nobody can see your feet.

...

Thanks for the clarification, but it was your earlier assertion that 'you never see single sole pumps' that surprised me.   A strong word is 'never', and I don't accept it (or even your alternative of 'usual') as true here.   Look at pics of formal functions (particularly those involving celebrities) and, where the footwear is visible, you will indeed see many women wearing sandals, almost always barefoot.   But not all will be so shod; courts/pumps (with or without open toes) and even boots can be seen, not to speak of any of these styles also having a platform.   

Although women have often worn sandals with some form of 'evening dress' or other formal outfit for a century or so, sandals, especially if of a fully-open nature and worn barefoot, were until around 50 years ago considered by many in Western society as too casual and informal for most truly formal functions.   A noteworthy example of changing times, with the arguably ultra-casual item of apparel now being the common preference for the ultra-formal activity - and which may perhaps be contrasted with the inexplicable desire of many young women to don heavy 'work boots' to complement a floaty dress for casual activity on a hot summer's day.   I applaud the first scenario as much as I deprecate the second!

[Shyheels]

My daughter does the Doc Martens and dresses look - although she can carry it off. She doesn’t do floaty dresses but heavy Victorian ones and with floral Doc Martens. It works - I think because it is her natural style and unaffected 

[Cali]

@Puffer there are not many celebrities functions where  @mlroseplant resides.  I see several heels, but I shop (shoe shop) in a high end mall.

[mlroseplant]

@Puffer, it was a mortal sin for me to use the word "never." I should never use the word "never."

As to the other, do the round-toed brown pumps need to go, or are they worth messing with for better fit?

[Bubba136]

Keep the brown pumps. You never know when you’re feet will grow into them .  
 

As to the  “formal,- informal” discussion, I believe the environment in which a persons was raised has a great deal to do with the way they dress. My father was a diplomat and as such he, along with my mother, attended many formal affairs. I was taught early on that I had three sets of clothing.  One set for play, one set for school and, one set for church/dress up occasions.  I still practice this idea today.  Only instead of school clothes, I maintain a wardrobe of less dressy clothing for work. My footwear matches the category of clothes that I choose to wear.  Clogs, sandals, loafers and boots for informal wear.  For work I usually choose more dressy heeled penny loafers or plain black or brown booties.  Formal occasions require more attention.  Single sole pumps, sling back pumps or thigh high boots, all with stiletto heels at last 5 inch 👠 heels.  Now days ,and retired at 67 years old, I quit messing around with 6 or 7 inch heels like I used to wear because wearing them is really hard work.  (Now days I tend to stick to wearing more  4” heels because they are more comfortable.) 

everywhere I go these days girls/women are wearing thong sandals, sneakers or those obnoxious Crocks.  Crocks!  Very popular with both. Men and women.  It’s a cult or fad thing.  I even witnessed a couple of men wearing them at church last week.

 As it is anything else in the fashion industry, it’s cyclical.  What goes around comes back in time.  Dressing up will become fashionable again after a few years.   Also, coupled up with this will be fashionable high heels.  And, dressing like a homeless bum will,once again, be considered to be unattractive and unsociable.  

 

 

[Puffer]

Bubba136:   Are you saying that you dress (or used to dress) for your various public activities in a combination of male clothing and high stiletto heels?   Or were you complementing the footwear with other femine clothing etc?   What was/is the reaction from workmates, family etc?

[mlroseplant]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:39 PM, Shyheels said:

My daughter does the Doc Martens and dresses look - although she can carry it off. She doesn’t do floaty dresses but heavy Victorian ones and with floral Doc Martens. It works - I think because it is her natural style and unaffected 

I am at odds with most people on this, at least most Westerners, but I do not like how Doc Martens feel at all, saying nothing about how they look. They are far too squidgy for me. I don't want to feel like I'm walking on air. I want to feel like I'm walking on the ground. Running a shovel or bending electrical conduit (by hand) is very unsatisfactory in Docs. As a final note, it seems like within the first few days of the temperature dipping below zero, and by zero I mean -18º to most of the world, the sole splits transversely in half underneath the ball of the foot. I've had this happen to two different pairs.

Continuing along the same line of thought, people tell me that Crocs, though ugly, are like walking on pillows. Seems like that would take a great deal of effort for no fashion gain, wouldn't it? Again, I'd rather just walk on the ground. It's much easier.

[Bubba136]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:56 PM, Puffer said:

Bubba136:   Are you saying that you dress (or used to dress) for your various public activities in a combination of male clothing and high stiletto heels?   Or were you complementing the footwear with other femine clothing etc?   What was/is the reaction from workmates, family etc?

I confine wearing of feminine clothing to stockings and girls shoes including high heels.  These days I mainly dress casually in golf shirts and slacks along with various styles of heeled loafers and knee highs.  My children are grown and gone living in other parts of the country.  My wife passed away several years ago.  So I am am alone living most days here at the beach.  I do occasionally get questions about the way I dress mainly when wearing shorts and sandals.  I usually respond by saying that I find it much more comfortable dressed the way I do. 

I have been a member here for a long time and have posted a lot about myself in the past.  Answers to your questions are there.  Just scroll back through my comments.

[Shyheels]

2 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

I am at odds with most people on this, at least most Westerners, but I do not like how Doc Martens feel at all, saying nothing about how they look. They are far too squidgy for me. I don't want to feel like I'm walking on air. I want to feel like I'm walking on the ground. Running a shovel or bending electrical conduit (by hand) is very unsatisfactory in Docs. As a final note, it seems like within the first few days of the temperature dipping below zero, and by zero I mean -18º to most of the world, the sole splits transversely in half underneath the ball of the foot. I've had this happen to two different pairs.

Continuing along the same line of thought, people tell me that Crocs, though ugly, are like walking on pillows. Seems like that would take a great deal of effort for no fashion gain, wouldn't it? Again, I'd rather just walk on the ground. It's much easier.

I’ve never worn Doc Martens myself. Not that much of a fan. My taste in boots just doesn’t run that way. My daughter must have 6 or 8 pairs of them and loves the way they fit and feel. We don’t gave to worry about 0°F temperatures here so she’ll never know how the soles hold up in those temperatures.

I do have a pair of crocs which I wear when I am gardening or mowing the lawn - and only then. They are comfortable, I guess. I don’t really notice them so they must be! When I’m done with the lawn I just kick them off and go inside. 

[Jkrenzer]

Back to a casual look. This is a typical really casual look for me. I do prefer my stilettos in any or every environment. My neighbors and many around town have come to expect it anyway.

[kneehighs]

11 hours ago, Bubba136 said:

I confine wearing of feminine clothing to stockings and girls shoes including high heels.  These days I mainly dress casually in golf shirts and slacks along with various styles of heeled loafers and knee highs.  My children are grown and gone living in other parts of the country.  My wife passed away several years ago.  So I am am alone living most days here at the beach.  I do occasionally get questions about the way I dress mainly when wearing shorts and sandals.  I usually respond by saying that I find it much more comfortable dressed the way I do. 

I have been a member here for a long time and have posted a lot about myself in the past.  Answers to your questions are there.  Just scroll back through my comments.

Off topic, but I just wanted to say it sure is good seeing you active here, a fellow OG (Original Gangster) at that.  How times have changed since "2002"

[Bubba136]

13 hours ago, Jkrenzer said:

Back to a casual look. This is a typical really casual look for me. I do prefer my stilettos in any or every environment. My neighbors and many around town have come to expect it anyway.  

 

 

For those of us that wear our high heels openly, the most truthful part of the above comment is “My neighbors and many around town have come to expect it anyway.”  

3 hours ago, kneehighs said:

Off topic, but I just wanted to say it sure is good seeing you active here, a fellow OG (Original Gangster) at that.  How times have changed since "2002"

Not many of us left.

 

 

[Shyheels]

There’s not many of anybody left - maybe half a dozen posters keeping the forum alive.

[Puffer]

21 hours ago, Bubba136 said:

...

I have been a member here for a long time and have posted a lot about myself in the past.  Answers to your questions are there.  Just scroll back through my comments.

I am well aware of your antiquity but, as you have posted so rarely in recent times, and many here would not be familiar with your history, it seemed reasonable to ask for a catch-up, given your heel-wearing resume.   And a wish to keep the board alive and maybe interest newbies.   As a learned judge once remarked: 'Information and means of information are not the same thing.'.  🙂

[mlroseplant]

Not an OG here, but I suppose I'm close. My dates don't show it, but I was around. I can remember when there were actual women on this site, and I can remember when there were men pretending to be women. I can say that it may be boring around here nowadays, but there's very little stupid stuff that goes on anymore. It has just become a site for men who like to wear heels. It may be that there is a need that is better filled elsewhere, or it may be that there is less of a need for a support group like ours. There is no question that the world, in many places, has become more accepting of fashion non-conformity than it was in 2002.

[kneehighs]

5 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

Not an OG here, but I suppose I'm close. My dates don't show it, but I was around. I can remember when there were actual women on this site, and I can remember when there were men pretending to be women. I can say that it may be boring around here nowadays, but there's very little stupid stuff that goes on anymore. It has just become a site for men who like to wear heels. It may be that there is a need that is better filled elsewhere, or it may be that there is less of a need for a support group like ours. There is no question that the world, in many places, has become more accepting of fashion non-conformity than it was in 2002.

100% 

Social media has replaced the membership boards.  The digital experience became more individuated and decentralized. 

Plus, the broader world is more accepting now than it was in 2002-2012 (2012 is when mass adoption of Instagram really started) era. 

When the pendulum will swing back against this remains to be seen. 

You can just downright tell a first date now "'I'm autogynephilic, I love to embody femininity in myself and it arouses me...and she'll whip out Dior lip gloss a minute later and offer to put in on you. All the while you're wearing pumps and leather pants.  Friends are way more open to it, especially in the West.  Heck, even in Russia where I spent the last 3 months people were still open to it.

 

[Bubba136]

17 hours ago, Puffer said:

I am well aware of your antiquity but, as you have posted so rarely in recent times, and many here would not be familiar with your history, it seemed reasonable to ask for a catch-up, given your heel-wearing resume.   And a wish to keep the board alive and maybe interest newbies.   As a learned judge once remarked: 'Information and means of information are not the same thing.'.  🙂

Ah!  But, “means of information” are necessary to obtain “information.”

As I mentioned earlier, my father was a foreign service officer employed by the US Department of State.  I am their third child born late in their lives.  The first place I can remember living is in Australia followed by Singapore, Tokyo, Rome, London, Paris, Brussels and Budapest mixed between tours in Washington.  

In all of my formative years l can not remember a time that I didn’t wear high heels.  My earliest memories are of playing in my mother’s closet and wearing her high heels.  In fact, my mother bought me my first pair of my own heels to encourage me to quit wearing hers.  

My parents attributed my liking girls shoes to childhood habit that I would eventually outgrow.  One, day, at the age of 9 or 10, I discovered that as hard as I tried to quit wearing my heels I could never stop.  The desire would never go away.  It hasn’t.

I met my wife on our first day at college.  I told her of my wearing heel as soon as it became obvious that we were going to be more than just boyfriend/girlfriend.  It took her several months after I asked her to marry me to decide that she could accept that part of me. Even as she accepted this fact in my character, she had several condition’s dealing with when and where I could wear them.  Mainly, I was never to wear them around our children if/when we had them.  We have three.  A boy and two girls and I’ve kept my word. And, as far as I know, they still don’t know about my heels.    They are now all grown, have successful careers and children of their own.

My wife completed her education with a degree as a nurse and physical therapist. I entered the military after graduating and served 12 years in the Air Force as a cargo aircraft pilot.  I experienced a serious medical condition and was medically retired from active duty after no longer being eligible for flying status.

Throughout the years, I worked at several different vocations.  Mainly self employed position in management where l discovered the area of investing in and reconstructing businesses on the verge of bankruptcy where I’ve managed to make a comfortable living.

My wife passed away several years ago after which I decided to retire since I was already drawing my medical retirement from the military and had an adequate income from my investments.

My wife was truly an elegant, beautiful and amazing woman.  During the early years of our marriage she was apprehensive when ever I would go out in public wearing a pair of my girls shoes.  After a couple of years she became comfortable with the idea and even began to buy shoes for me (most of which I returned because our tastes were so different.) She even became at ease when occasions permitted our goin out together wearing heels to movies or restaurants.

This short recap should give you an idea of my personal profile and my interests in women’s shoes.   

 

 

17 hours ago, mlroseplant said:

Not an OG here, but I suppose I'm close. My dates don't show it, but I was around. I can remember when there were actual women on this site, and I can remember when there were men pretending to be women. I can say that it may be boring around here nowadays, but there's very little stupid stuff that goes on anymore. It has just become a site for men who like to wear heels. It may be that there is a need that is better filled elsewhere, or it may be that there is less of a need for a support group like ours. There is no question that the world, in many places, has become more accepting of fashion non-conformity than it was in 2002.

I also can remember some of the women that used to frequent this site.  Some even migrated here from Jenny’s High Heels chat room.  remember Debra from Hong Kong?  Or, Gina, Queen of Heels?  Both became very good friends with me.  Gina even successfully interceded with a manufacturer that I was experiencing difficulties in filling an order for a beautiful pair of pumps I had purchased.  And Debra from Hong Kong, I sent her several pairs of heels that I couldn’t wear because of size issues.  They fit her perfectly and she even sent me pictures of her wearing them.

I am also discouraged at the lack of participation of members here.  Lately I have been checking the numbers of guests that are reviewing this website.at the moment there are 52 guests looking at the forum, not one of them logged into the site.  Friday evening when I checked (about 10 pm EST) there we  over 200 guests recorded as reading the forum.  I was surprised at the level of interest and disappointed that the “guests” were not registered members nor contributing comments.  

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Bubba136