Your Feelings On Scotland.

[meganiwish]

Actually, it was a king  determined on his divine right that led to the Civil War., which ultimately led to our constitutional monarchy.

[Shyheels]

Somehow I don't see the present Queen, or Charles, or William, or even little George (although I gather he is pretty upfront about grabbing toys in nursery) doing anything like that.

[Dr. Shoe]

Actually, it was a king  determined on his divine right that led to the Civil War., which ultimately led to our constitutional monarchy.

Yes exactly. These rights have never been formally surrendered but there is a promise not to use them. The Royal Assent is more of a ceremonial duty, it is up to the House Of Lords to reject bills. Note that we do not actually have a constitution, most of what we call "constitutional" is based on tradition tempered by some statute laws.

[meganiwish]

Well, there isn't a written constitution in the sense that the US has one, but still there are constitutional legalities.  There's no longer a claim that the monarch rules by divine right, but rather at the behest of the subjects.  Actually, there is still a parallel with religion;  Parliament acts a a sort of intercessor between the people and the monarch, rather like a vicar or the Madonna.  The Prime Minister is intercessor between the monarch and Parliament.

 

I can understand why our colonial brethren should feel as they do about monarchy, but for us I think it works rather well.  Certainly our current Queen considers her duty to her people paramount and there's nothing to suggest that belief hasn't been inculcated into her children and grand-children.  I for one trust them to keep an eye on the elected for us.

 

For the same reason I think it would be disastrous if the Lords were replaced with an elected upper house.  They can't indefinitely reject a bill, and I remember from my History lessons that they can't touch a money bill, but there was an interesting thing in 2007 with the smoking ban.  There was a vote that the Government knew they could win.  Giving a free vote ensured it.  All MPs have a majority of non-smokers in their constituencies.  Blair cynically knew that he could, indeed would, win a vote in the House.  So overwhelming was the vote that the Lords didn't feel they could send it back, but they did say that it was a 'bad law' based as it was on 'bad science'.  The only research ever done on the effects of passive smoking has been with infants in the home.  If anything, the new law would encourage smoking in the home.  And like any badly thought out law it had a raft of unintended consequences.  Noise has become a social issue, and the language of the taproom spilling on to the streets.  And those who think other people's choices are their business have been given carte blanche.  Is anyone surprised that there are people like that clamouring to ban e-cigarettes?

 

But I digress.  Back on topic, I'm moving to Berwick to open a barbed-wire shop and on Saturdays I'll smuggle Berwick Rangers across the border for away matches, or their opponents for home matches.  I'm going to make a killing.

[nyenor]

I guess only a few will understand the Berwick Rangers comment.

[ilikekicks]

I watched Dimbleby Interview of past Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Alex Salmond.

 

I think Gordon Brown is an absolute JOKE! An intellectually challenged individual. The guy makes Marx look like a capitalist!

 

After what Brown said.. I could understand exactly why the Scots might want to leave. The SAME situation exists here in Western New York as we wouldnt care less if NYC fell off the planet ( So long as they took their politicians and Ideals with them ).

 

The biggest thing in both of their interviews was about " Londons Debt " and that some of the Scots feel they are paying for other areas. Brown stated that the Bank of England would eat a lot of debt if the Scots did leave.

 

Im starting to see a situation thats not unique to Scotland, but to many different nations and how things are becoming very divided.

 

My concern is that if the Scots DO in fact vote ' Yes ' that come friday there will be a run on the Pound.

[meganiwish]

I guess only a few will understand the Berwick Rangers comment.

Yes, but it is illustrative of how politicians get in a kerfuffle about minutiae like currency and defence and forget what's really important.  http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/berwick-rangers-fans-fear-border-4278839

Well, I've just got up to put my bread to bed and the count is ongoing.  My, what a lot of men wearing suits and saying Very Important Things!  The poor things have obviously been missing being able to look so grim and serious.  Oh look, there's Michael Gove.  I expect his opinion was worthwhile, but I was too busy wondering whether his drooping lower lip gets boot polish on it.  Oh, Beanotown votes Yes.  I suppose the Bash Street Kids' votes turned that one.

Oh, this is so funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cbn7I70IBE

And don't the boys just love their screen technology, though it makes nothing clearer?

[Shyheels]

Looks like no messy divorce after all

[Dr. Shoe]

I think they've decided to give it another go for the sake of the ginger kids.

[ilikekicks]

I think they've decided to give it another go for the sake of the ginger kids.

 

Ginger Kids? I have no idea what your referencing there LOL!

[Heelster]

Ginger Kids? I have no idea what your referencing there LOL!

Ummmm Dude - - - Gingers / Red Heads!!!

 

Surely you jest.

[meganiwish]

We used to have an institution in Britain called 'The Milkman'.  Daily doorstep deliveries of milk.  In an age of stay at home wives the milkman had  a reputation.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1xvyTdBZI

 

Now we come to some interesting genetics  Apparently the red-haired gene can lie dormant for generations and then pop up unexpected  http://topekasnews.com/science-redheads-are-now-an-endangered-species-extinct-by-2060/ One can imagine the thoughts that might go through the head of a black haired man with a black haired wife if she has a red headed child.  So redheads may be seen as the cause of divorces.  As it happens, I have two black haired brothers and both parents with black hair.  And yes, I've  been called a milkman's daughter.  So that's what Dr Shoe is getting at.

 

As an American, it will probably surprise you to know the low esteem that natural red hair carries in Britain.  It never bothered me because Daddy told me it was the sign of Celtic aristocracy.  No doubt Guinevere had red hair.  In the South red hair hair is largely a sign of Celtic ancestry, in Scotland it's Norse.  http://www.onlinegooner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6709 For information, a 'Gooner' is an Arsenal supporter - now they are worthy of pity and/or scorn.  But you see, 'Ginger Tosser' was acceptable, albeit ironically, in a mainstream British comedy.

 

Actually, Prince Harry is a red-head, and unlike the rest he doesn't look like a horse.  It's widely felt that Diana played an away match.  Good luck to them all.

 

But you asked for thoughts about the Scottish thing.  My thought is that really no side won.  Close enough to 50/50 as makes no difference.  Isn't that just the way of democratic politics?  Give people two choices and that's how it will come out.  In Britain we're cursed with three main parties and they come out at about 33%, plus or minus.  I'll refer you back to what I said about Berwick Rangers.  If you go to the football every week, that's a significant part of your life, 14%. It matters.  Do I care if I pay in pounds or poonds or groats? No, and I doubt if anyone in Scotland does.  And do I care who thinks he's in charge?  No.  May all the pink people, all the Salmonds and Call Me Daves and Cheshire Cat Tonies just sink into the mire.  If I wish hard enough and click my heels.

[Shyheels]

I've lived in/been associated with the UK for a few years now and it still utterly amazes me the weird bias they have here against red hair, or gingers. I simply don't get it.

[Dr. Shoe]

The reference was partly because of the "goldtops" (milkman's kids) and partly because there is a much higher probabilty that Scots will be ginger than any other group of people.

[Shyheels]

Apparently they have the highest incidence of red/ginger in the world

[Dr. Shoe]

Er... Like I said.

[Shyheels]

I had though you meant group of people in the UK

[ilikekicks]

Ummmm Dude - - - Gingers / Red Heads!!!

 

Surely you jest.

 

I usually associate such with the Irish. Freckles and red hair..

[Shyheels]

Seems to be a Celtic thing

[Dr. Shoe]

I had though you meant group of people in the UK

I believe that Scotland recently voted to remain part of the UK...?

Seems to be a Celtic thing

It is. There are more redheads in Scotland as a percentage of the population than anywhere else in the world.

[SF]

They voted to stay in the UK.  I suppose that's a good thing.  Not for me to say, since I am either a citizen of the UK nor do I live in Scotland.  I wish them all at the best of luck.  sf  

[Bubba136]

I believe they just dodged the bullet

[Amanda]

On July 22nd UK Prime minister Mr Cameron turned up in Shetland unannounced.  At the airport the Prime Minister was accompanied by the Secretary of State for Scotland Alistair Carmichael. One week before Mr Cameron’s visit, the oil industry specialists Synectics announced it had designed and delivered an end-to-end surveillance solution for Clair Ridge oil field in Scotland.  The new technology is expected to result in more than 8 billion barrels being cost-effectively recovered over the lifetime of the field.

I voted 'Yes'  for a number of different reasons. However I don't think Mr Cameron had any intention of letting this new found Scottish wealth slip his grasp.

[Shyheels]

He most certainly did not.

[Shafted]

Oil? In Scotland? Now it all makes sense.

[Shyheels]

The North Sea is underlain by oil-rich sedimentary strata to the tune of billions of barrels of reserves. Norway and the UK have been sharing this resource for decades - Norway investing its jackpot wealth wisely and becoming rich and the UK...well, the UK doing what it usually does and frittering it away like some starry eyed winner in Vegas.

Scotland, and the Scots, in whose backyard this wealth lies, would like to have had the spending, or saving, or investing, of this money themselves and would have had, had they voted for independence. It was much in the present nation's interest that all this lovely loot be kept 'in the family' so to speak. That there might be even more oil out there than is generally known was not something the UK government was keen to talk about in the run up to the referendum. In fact the present known reserves were pooh-poohed by the government as likely to run out soon, leaving a newly independent Scotland broke and sorry.

[meganiwish]

Norway and the UK have been sharing this resource for decades - Norway investing its jackpot wealth wisely and becoming rich and the UK...well, the UK doing what it usually does and frittering it away like some starry eyed winner in Vegas.

Well, perhaps we could substitute 'Tory Government wanting to give tax cuts' for 'UK', but you've got the gist of it.  It's always useful to get some more family silver to sell off.

[Shyheels]

This fecklessness has gone on through several governments, none of which have taken anything like the canny line the Norwegians have taken with their share of the booty

[ilikekicks]

On July 22nd UK Prime minister Mr Cameron turned up in Shetland unannounced.  At the airport the Prime Minister was accompanied by the Secretary of State for Scotland Alistair Carmichael. One week before Mr Cameron’s visit, the oil industry specialists Synectics announced it had designed and delivered an end-to-end surveillance solution for Clair Ridge oil field in Scotland.  The new technology is expected to result in more than 8 billion barrels being cost-effectively recovered over the lifetime of the field.

I voted 'Yes'  for a number of different reasons. However I don't think Mr Cameron had any intention of letting this new found Scottish wealth slip his grasp.

 

 

Oil? In Scotland? Now it all makes sense.

 

Thats one of the things I saw when I glanced at the reason of ' Why would the Scots wish to leave? '.

 

Scotland doesnt have a large population. The whole Nation tallies about the size of New York City.

 

Scotland DOES have a good amount of resources though, much more then the larger population of England.

 

Its much of the same here in the ' State ' of ' New York '. On my end of the state, its Agricultural. It used to have factories and assembly lines, steel plants, WestingHouse, General Electric, Boeing and many other large companies that provided good paying jobs and a good way of life. The other side of the state decided to ' take control ' and passed ' Regulations ', taxes and ' other measures ' which made those great jobs and businesses leave the State completely.

 

In watching all those opportunities leave, theres no remorse from those whom have ' shat where they dont live '. Most of those on this end of the state wont openly admit it but tend to feel that if New York City or ' Albany ' was swallowed up by the Atlantic Ocean ', it " might be a good thing for prosperity " as I have heard stated.

 

Such a thing is sad, that people would feel in such a way about others, but when someone whom doesnt have a clue to how you live your life, whats really necessary and what is a hindrance to it decided to impose dictations upon you, should they expect anything less then resentment?

 

As England will suck down Scotlands resources for their ' progressive ' system ( that is until theres none left! ), the same happened here.

 

To show a point, heres some real math behind the numbers of a decent sized farm.

 

Corn crops, Tomato crops and other crops :

 

In one day, I will burn through 125 gallons of Gas using a tractor and harvester. Ill clear about 20 acres. Mind everyone, that field is tended to 5 or 6 times in a year. Its roughly 800 gallons total of fuel used between surveys, sewing, reaping and harvesting different ways. Theres a 71 cent a gallon tax on fuel.

 

Add in the ' property tax ' from the State, its over 1000$ New York takes for THAT particular field ( Its closer to 2000 actually ). The maintenance on equipment is VERY expensive. Toss in the irrigation system, pumps and other things ( Its not just putting the seeds in the ground and picking the fruit off the plants a few months later! ) and the taxes associated with them ( sales taxes, hazmat fees, required licensing ).. its not very profitable at all.

 

Upon selling the produce, there are 3 other taxes involved.

 

When all is said and done, New York State makes the same ( and sometimes more ) then the people doing all the work. The ways we used to do somethings saved time and the costs passed on to consumers, but many of them were ' regulated ' out by those in nice suits whom never worked on a farm and live 400 miles away. Those ' suits ' have their hands wide open for what they call THEIR ' Revenues ' from *MY* work.

 

While some ' asshat ' from across the State votes in those whom take the fruit of my labour away and are paid much more then I am.

 

I hear a LOT about this supposed ' Economic Inequality ' from one side of the isle yet those people fail to realize THEY CREATED IT! ( and at their hands its still continuing ). Those on the other side of the state average TRIPPLE what my yearly income is and vote in people whom are talking about ' income inequality '? Seriously?

 

Yet Im told ' You didnt build that! '. I havent seen ' that guy ' whom made such an absolutely STUPID comment out at 4:30am rain the rain, snow or cold working a field. In fact, I havent seen anyone whom even voted for him doing the kind of work *I* do, let alone the neighboring farms. I dont see those suits from Wall Street whom OWN the NYC area lining up to help out. They sure do like all the foods we provide through the long hours of labour with no vacations or never having the time for a ' round of golf '.

 

There was another idiot whom stated ' You dont need 10 rounds to kill a deer! '.. How about Groundhogs, Coons, Possum and Coyotes whom destroy crops, the grounds and livestock? What about the Bear that tore apart one of our greenhouses this past week? Hes a millionaires son whom never worked a real job that required a shower after a days work.. and was elected by the other side of the state.. Yet we have to deal with his lack on what Reality really is.

 

I think theres a HUGE difference between a lot of people, yet most wish to ' compromise '. Most wish to say ' we can all get along '. People lie to themselves all the time. Its their choice.

 

The people in England should be breathing a HUGE sigh of relief right now that the Scots didnt leave their Union. They should also be well aware that

there IS some form of resentment OR a wanting to part ways. Its a mirror image or how it is in quite a few places on this globe. The wanting of the Scots to leave the UK system isnt Unique at all.

[manluvheels]

On July 22nd UK Prime minister Mr Cameron turned up in Shetland unannounced.  At the airport the Prime Minister was accompanied by the Secretary of State for Scotland Alistair Carmichael. One week before Mr Cameron’s visit, the oil industry specialists Synectics announced it had designed and delivered an end-to-end surveillance solution for Clair Ridge oil field in Scotland.  The new technology is expected to result in more than 8 billion barrels being cost-effectively recovered over the lifetime of the field.

I voted 'Yes'  for a number of different reasons. However I don't think Mr Cameron had any intention of letting this new found Scottish wealth slip his grasp.

So there was a couple of months for this to be brought into the discussion it seems. There has, of course been constant predictions of the oil running out but technology being what it is, new methods come up that extend the life of the oil take.

 

The UK has had to use the revenues through some hard times but it has 11 times the population of Norway to support, so it has been a bonanza for Norway and it seems to have pushed the cost of living through the roof as a side effect. The Big Mac Index shows that a Big Mac costs the equivalent of $9.63. (2012 figures)

 

I seems that in the event of a "YES" vote that there would be a push for an "Island Referendum" for the outer Isles of Scotland to decide if they wanted to opt out of Scottish Independence. In the event that didn't come to pass but there was also a petition to the Scottish Government on 24th April this year:

 

Calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to hold three separate referenda in Shetland, Orkney, and the Western Isles on Thursday 25 September 2014, one week after the Scottish independence referendum, asking the people of each island group whether they would prefer their island group to:

· to become an independent country, or

· to stay in Scotland

and, in the event of a yes vote in the referendum on Scottish independence, to have the following additional option:

· to leave Scotland and stay in the remainder of the UK

Interestingly the result in Shetland was that 66% voted "No" - so had a supplementary referendum been held today I think we know where that would have gone

As a further fly in the ointment Denmark and Norway also had their eye on Shetland and Orkney! 

According to Udal law, the Scottish parliament is legally bound to return the islands to Norway upon repayment of the Kalmar Union dowry following the betrothal of Margaret of Denmark to King James III of Scotland in 1468.

Under the auspice of Udal law the Orkneys and Shetlands will revert back to Denmark and Norway on the repayment of the dowry believed to be around 10,000 Kroner.

It has been calculated that, due to interest rates and inflation, the figure could be as high as $3.7 billion dollars.

Norwegian Finance Minister Sigbjørn Jahnsen has already tabled a motion in Norways’s parliament seeking permission to use monies from Norway’s Oil Fund on behalf of the Norwegian and Danish governments.

He said: “This could be one of the most lucrative and ethical investments we make with our Investment Fund monies.” This was in2012

What fun there could have been if the vote went Yes! I stand to be corrected on al this, of course