Ppl? Question For Those Across The Pond.

[Bubba136]

Being self sufficient is something to strive for if total self reliance is your goal. However, what are you going to do when your government visits your farm and confiscates your crops and livestock "for the good of society?" Question: what's the difference between the Pilgrems of 1620 and Americans today? (Pilgrems had someplace to go when they became dissatisfied with their homeland.)

[ilikekicks]

Being self sufficient is something to strive for if total self reliance is your goal. However, what are you going to do when your government visits your farm and confiscates your crops and livestock "for the good of society?" Question: what's the difference between the Pilgrems of 1620 and Americans today? (Pilgrems had someplace to go when they became dissatisfied with their homeland.)

 

First part of your statement. What am I going to do? Laugh AT them. If they feel the small farm I live on is worth their efforts it proves how lost they truly are. If they want the farm, they can have it. When the townsfolk cant swing buy to pick up their food, they might have something to say and it wont be too nice.

 

The banner you have presented though, " for the good of society ", is actually the real problem.

 

You asked what the difference between the Pilgrims and the people of today are? People of today are too reliant upon everyone else. Those whom left Europe were tired of oppression of ' tyranny '. The Pilgrims didnt sit at home and live off the fruits of others. If they did so, they starved. Today, they are given an EBT card, ' Free ' medical coverage, ' Free ' cellphones, ' Free ' internet access..

 

As we all know and as examples of history dictate, people become too comfortable. They will make villains out of those whom dont agree with them and use whatever means ( usually force ) to subdue them. They all too often forget such a vicious cycle will include them at somepoint, reciprocation so to say. Call it Karma if you like .

 

I look at the Nation I live in and realize its gone beyond what its original intentions were. As Amanda said, as someone just visiting, it feels like a ' jail ' of some kind to her. Is that what the US was founded to be or what it has actually become?

 

People used to visit the U.S. and enjoy the liberties offered. Many people ' Defected ' to come here. Illegals and Legal immigrants still to this day do such. It doesnt change the reality that liberty is being taken.

 

The biggest problem is that there are those of us whom are more then capable of taking care of ourselves. We have no ' need ' for others in most instances.Those whom speak " for the good of society " as a mantra usually mean ' you will take part in what we say should happen or we will take whats yours and make you a part of our system '. Like the Borg if your familiar with Star Trek.

 

Economic collapse is right around the corner and people refuse to realize it. Shafted speaks of fallout from the Fukushima plants and some have doubted his words. There is a fanatical religion that has become politically embedded in many nations and is spreading to have a theocratical hold on mankind. Why would anyone want any of that " for the good of society "? 

 

We can be told that ' Climate Change ' is happening and were wrong if we dont believe in it. Demonized publicly in many instances.. Theres no sympathy or remorse when someone says ' Were being charged all this carbon tax.. why? ' or ' wheres the money going? '. Your evil for questioning something thats economically strangling people all around the world.

[dww]

I would love to know where all this so called carbon tax is going, or what is is being spent on.

[meganiwish]

The tax just goes into the general tax pot, like all taxes.  Gets spent on roads and hospitals and crackpot schemes.  The real question is whether they really think tax has any job beyond raising revenue or if they're...  Well, back in the nineties a Tory minister smirkingly said, 'You see, governments aren't very good at running railways.'  It begs the question, what are they good at then?  Apparently they've decided they're good at influencing behaviour, by taxation.  I'll yield the floor to you, ILK.  You'll put it so much better than me

[ilikekicks]

Megan.. I just believe we know whats best for ourselves.

[Amanda]

Megan.. I just believe we know whats best for ourselves.

Russel doesn't seem to think they're much good for anything anymore. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xGxFJ5nL9gg

[meganiwish]

Megan.. I just believe we know whats best for ourselves.

Succinctly put.

[ilikekicks]

Russel doesn't seem to think they're much good for anything anymore. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xGxFJ5nL9gg

 

 

I dunno what to say about ' Russel Brand '. I watched the first 3 minutes of that video and my eyes started bleeding.. Definetly not Mensa material!

[Dr. Shoe]

I dunno what to say about ' Russel Brand '. I watched the first 3 minutes of that video and my eyes started bleeding.. Definetly not Mensa material!

Actually, he is a very intelligent man. It's just a shame he doesn't always use it!

[Bubba136]

I'll take your word for it.

[ilikekicks]

Actually, he is a very intelligent man. It's just a shame he doesn't always use it!

 

I do believe hes ' ok ', just cant see the obvious though. ' intelligent '? Not a word I would associate to him by any means with the kool-aid drinking hes apparently done.

[SF]

never heard of this russel dude, but he sounds scary, very scary indeed......

BTW, I thought this thread was axing about the price of, how you say, petrol??  

[Womer_uk]

Fuel theft is quite common in Yorkshire

 

Some filling stations here will only turn the pump on you if you pay for say 20 pounds at the till first (a lot in the Bradford/Leeds area)

 

Theres been a lot of tank stabbing too (simply ramming a big nail or drilling the tank with a battery drill)

 

Some run illegally on red diesel / gas oil (this is coloured red as it's meant for heating - farm / non road vehicles only - and is roughly half the price of regular "white diesel"), though there are far more roadside checks done by police/customs here - people were getting stopped around by us only last week.

 

The other big thing are vans being robbed of cataylitic converters by simlply cutting them off with a hacksaw and being weighed in at a scrap merchants

[Puffer]

Fuel theft is quite common in Yorkshire

 

Some filling stations here will only turn the pump on you if you pay for say 20 pounds at the till first (a lot in the Bradford/Leeds area)

 

Theres been a lot of tank stabbing too (simply ramming a big nail or drilling the tank with a battery drill)

 

Some run illegally on red diesel / gas oil (this is coloured red as it's meant for heating - farm / non road vehicles only - and is roughly half the price of regular "white diesel"), though there are far more roadside checks done by police/customs here - people were getting stopped around by us only last week.

 

The other big thing are vans being robbed of cataylitic converters by simlply cutting them off with a hacksaw and being weighed in at a scrap merchants

A sad indictment of honest, thrifty Yorkshire folk!   Perhaps you should move away - assuming that you can afford to fill your car with legal fuel and it isn't stolen before you get out of the frozen north.

 

The south is not immune to such theft problems, alas, but I have yet to learn of a filling station that insists on pre-payment.

 

During WW2, when Government-issue petrol (gasoline) was dyed red to discourage pilferage, it was soon found that the colour could be removed by straining the petrol through the carbon filter in a gas mask.   I wonder if that would work for red diesel as the price differential is very tempting! 

[ilikekicks]

We use about 1000 gallons of diesel a week on the farm. The ' red ' is more then coloring. Its part sulfur, not just a dye/coloring.

 

 

 

*** This next part is said in outright disgust at a certain mindset. If it ' offends ' you, maybe dont read, let others enjoy it. ***

 

 

 

 

A consideration that effected us this past year was when the State mandated the limitation of ' off road ' diesel and without warning had fuel suppliers use ' bio-diesel '.

 

The Problem with bio-diesel is that algae grows in it! It grows in the fuel systems in tractors and loaders, dumptrucks.. all heavy equipment. Fuel pumps arent cheap 1200-2000$US plus the downtime on your 100,000$ plus equipment ( in some instances ). All for what? ' Green! Gotta save the planet! '. At the cost of almost 50,000$ to those I know and work with.

 

Plus the F-ing tax on fuel in New York is unreal! its 20% or better of the total cost per gallon.

 

When gas hit 4$ a gallon a few years back, people were driving off without paying for gas. Now, in every area in New York that I have been too since then, you have to pay before the pump gets turned on.

[Shafted]

I can vouch that the red dye does contain sulfur. I use kerosene lighting and heating and am using red dye kerosene in them because it is much cheaper than the clear stuff.

 

The red dye kerosene clouds up the chimneys on my lamps and lanterns with white flour sulfur. Clear 1-K kerosene does not. Also my kerosene convection heater must be dry burned once a week to burn off the carbon compounds that clog up the wick. With 1-K kerosene, only two dry burns per heating season are required.

[dww]

As far as I know you can take the red dye out of diesel, but the powers that be will know you've done it. Down here in the south of England we have no problem with buying fuel no pre payment required, and in all my years of driving (since 1968) I have only ever seen one roadside check for red diesel. The only thing I have heard of being nicked from cars etc is the odd propshaft or plastic bumpers, used to be alloy wheels at one time.

[Puffer]

As far as I know you can take the red dye out of diesel, but the powers that be will know you've done it. Down here in the south of England we have no problem with buying fuel no pre payment required, and in all my years of driving (since 1968) I have only ever seen one roadside check for red diesel. The only thing I have heard of being nicked from cars etc is the odd propshaft or plastic bumpers, used to be alloy wheels at one time.

 

Yes, I'm sure that the portable analytical tools now available would detect de-colourised red diesel but, as you say, checks are few and far between.   I have seen a number over the years but usually in country areas and with large trucks as the main target.   In the absence of local knowledge and suspicion (e.g. a farmer buying red diesel in bulk and thought to be using it in his car), H. M. Revenue & Customs would have little reason to stop the private motorist for a fuel check.

 

As far as I know, red diesel in the UK does not have sulphur added and is otherwise the same as normal road fuel.   If otherwise, there would be problems with the many small boats that are fitted with standard car/truck diesel engines.   They are allowed to buy red diesel but are charged partial duty on it to reflect its mixed use for both propulsion and heating in the vessel.

[Womer_uk]

Customs fuel checks are endemic in the north and lowland Scotland.

 

If you have a diesel around YOU WILL BE STOPPED !

 

You can even buy red from normal garage forecourts in Bradford (as well as fuel distributors) - Though if you get more than 95 litres you have to fill in an HMRC form in

 

They don't even dip wagon tanks anymore as a lot of hauliers have had fuel tanks fitted with split compartments with white in the normal filler cap bit and red in a secret filler.

 

HMRC now actually disconnect the feed at the injection pump up here to see what you are really running on.

 

As for fines it's £500 for the tankfull and an extra £500 it you own up to filling it up with probable seizure after a day in front of the judge.

 

The usual way of taking the marker out of fuel is to use Sulphuric Acid as a washing agent - this is rife in Ireland (where Red (coloured green there) diesel is big business - it's like the prohibition days in Chicago in Eire !

 

Even some garages in Eire sell this garbage as white (unknown to them) and the Guardai (Eire Police) regularly find hundreds of 45 gallon drums of Sulphuric acid sludge left in laybys on the back of an old trailer, which they have to incinerate at the tax payers expense.

[Dr. Shoe]

Only 20% fuel tax?

 

LOL!

[ilikekicks]

Couple things..

 

Womer_UK :

"HMRC now actually disconnect the feed at the injection pump up here to see what you are really running on."

 

Every system I have seen and worked on this past summer are all pressurized at 60+psi. *IF* someone disconnected that line, there would be fuel going all over! Certainly not good for the ' environment '.

 

DWW:

" The only thing I have heard of being nicked from cars etc is the odd propshaft or plastic bumpers, "

 

What the hell is a ' propshaft '? Do you mean a drive shaft or CV shaft?

 

Dr. Shoe:

"Only 20% fuel tax?

 

LOL!"

 

The 20% is in New York. Each state is left on its own where the Feds use a blanket 17cents a gallon. In New York, theres a 72 cent a gallon tax. In Ohio its like 20cents. In detroit, its 13 cents ( or something cheap ).

 

 

To those whom run Sulfur Diesel in a ' clear ' diesel setup.. Your going to really do some damage to the emissions system, the timing and ( more then likely ) the valve seats. 

 

Someone mentioned paperwork is required for 95liters.. thats roughly 25 gallons.. so ANYTHING I would fill up on the farm ( Including the pick-up trucks ) would require filling out a form? Talk about an inconvenience or a real hassle.

[meganiwish]

I don't know what a prop shaft is either, nor do I know what a CV shaft is, unless it's lying on  your Curriculum Vitae.

[Bubba136]

I believe that a prop shaft is what we call a drive shaft. It's a shaft that connects the transmission to the rear wheels that actually turn the wheels that push the vehicle (or propell/push) forward/backward down the road, perhaps? (or, on an aircraft it could be a shaft from the motor connected to a propellor..)

Edited November 8, 2013 by Bubba136

[meganiwish]

Thank you, Bubba, what a clear explanation.  As for CV Shaft, I'm going to write 'Can you dig it?' after all my qualifications.

[at9]

In all those poor enslaved commie European countries the total tax on road fuel is around the 50% to 60% mark and has been for many years. Hence the good Doctor's ironic laugh at 20%.

[dww]

You are quite correct the propshaft is the thing that drives the rear wheels taking the drive from the gearbox, I have always known it as a propshaft or drive shaft. A CV joint or shaft is a constant velocity joint used on front wheel drive cars as you cannot use universal joints as they do not rotate at a constant speed they speed up and slow down on each rotation, that's why a propshaft (drive) always has two joints one at each end. Mr ilk you are right modern diesel engines are feed with high pressure fuel from an electric pump normally located in the fuel tank and it can squirt fuel deep into your skin so don't go messing with that, older engines have a mechanical injector pump driven from the engine it can reach pressures of over 200 atmospheres, not really good things to play with.

[ilikekicks]

The English and their terms for cars. ' Bonnet ' is a valiance. ' Boot ' is the TRUNK! ' Propshaft ' is a driveshaft.. UGH! The Butchering of the basic language kills me!

 

You people cant even drive on the correct side of the road! 

 

50% tax on fuels.. There would be civil war over here if such was even suggested, let alone the people even accepting such a ludicrous suggestion.

 

Note to sister-in-law : Take 10G's instead of 5 as I originally thought.

[dww]

Mr ilk we do drive on the correct side of the road, it dates back to knights (or as you say nites) in armour days, and it's a aeroplane not a airplane. I do think that you americans have made the English language a bit easier to understand in some ways.

By the way we even pay tax on the tax we have on fuel, because it's taxed then we have to pay vat on top of that.

[Womer_uk]

On newer stuff HMRC also can check at the feed to the injectors - they only need a cotton buds worth to test for the marker - not a bucketful !

 

Lots of coach companies and european hauliers have HUGE extra tanks fitted and fill up in places like Belgium or the old Eastern Block where DERV is cheaper and NEVER buy fuel in the UK.

 

Under EU regs ex Warsaw Pact EU countries can poach business entirely in the UK - and as their diesel (and wages are a fraction of UK ones they regularly poach contracts from UK hauliers)

 

Also foriegn wagons don't pay a motorway surcharge in the UK - but UK wagon drivers do when they travel in the rest of europe !!!

 

Some of the massive UK hauliers like "Eddie Stobart" buy their fuel on the Amsterdam spot market at trade prices and drive it in by road tanker to their bases in the UK - and as EU duty has been paid (a lot less then UK Duty) theres nothing HM Government can do.

 

Anyway you Yanks and the rest of Europe drive on the wrong side the road as it is - and still the sun never sets on the British Empire - and the 2/5ths of the world map is still pink anyway, just off to get my pith helmet on to go wash the elephant before sundowners

[ilikekicks]

Womer_uk..

 

 

 

On newer stuff HMRC also can check at the feed to the injectors - they only need a cotton buds worth to test for the marker - not a bucketful !

 

The point is once you depressurize the fuel system, you have a good chance of damaging the fuel pump when trying to re-pressurize the system.

 

Before I would allow ANYONE to depressurize the fuel system on anything *I* own, there would be written contracts coverning any damages that would happen. If you wish to allow your law enforcement or whatever agencies to go about tearing apart your cars/vehicles.. So be it. 

 

 

 

Lots of coach companies and european hauliers have HUGE extra tanks fitted and fill up in places like Belgium or the old Eastern Block where DERV is cheaper and NEVER buy fuel in the UK.

 

Why would they buy something thats more expensive and does the same thing? If you tax and price yourselves out of a market, its an issue you need to look at and correct.

 

I grow my own food. I have chickens and get eggs from them. Beef comes from the cows. It might take work on my part, but I bet I pay less then anyone on this site ( shafted might be close ) then anyone else in dollars/euros/dinaries/gold pieces for food.

 

I have the liberty to do so.. So I do

 

 

 

Under EU regs ex Warsaw Pact EU countries can poach business entirely in the UK - and as their diesel (and wages are a fraction of UK ones they regularly poach contracts from UK hauliers)

 

How are they poaching anything when you state it costs more? Lower your costs and the market will come back to you.

 

 

 

Also foriegn wagons don't pay a motorway surcharge in the UK - but UK wagon drivers do when they travel in the rest of europe !!!

 

Wagon? OMG! I wouldnt be found dead inside a station wagon! Im glad they are basically gone! The eyesore they created for all too long! 

 

 

 

Some of the massive UK hauliers like "Eddie Stobart" buy their fuel on the Amsterdam spot market at trade prices and drive it in by road tanker to their bases in the UK - and as EU duty has been paid (a lot less then UK Duty) theres nothing HM Government can do.

 

It sounds like theres just too much taxes and too much being taken away or given away by the people ' over there '. The people ' over here ' ( unfortunately ) are starting to buy off on some of the same. When gas prices hit 10$ a gallon and they cant drive, cant take the kids to hockey, cant afford anything.. they will grab guns and have a revolution again. 

 

 

 

Anyway you Yanks and the rest of Europe drive on the wrong side the road as it is   - and still the sun never sets on the British Empire - and the 2/5ths of the world map is still pink anyway, just off to get my pith helmet on to go wash the elephant before sundowners 

 

I didnt understand any of that last part. Sounds like you need a beer and a joint. Get a boat and make the trip, I'll provide both for you!