Guys Posting In The Girls Forum - An Apology

[freestyle75]

Hi everyone - especially the female population of this forum: I guess everyone reads in the girls forum every now and then - even guys. When I was browsing that forum, I noticed that someone had asked to identify a certain pair of heels. Everyone who answered had no clue as to what brand they were. Except for stating that they were ugly, which is not very helpful. Yesterday, I stumbled upon this pair of heels while browsing on online shoe store and thought: Ok, it might be the girls forum, but whoever asked the question would surely be happy to get it answered. So I posted the answer in the girls forum. I was just stating the designer, the model, where to get it and did post a better quality picture of the heels from the online store. The reaction? The entire thread was deleted, and a discussion about guys posting in the girls forum was started. In addition, I got a warning. Personally, this made my day today. I simply cannot get over the fact that I was merely trying to help and got slapped for this. I have not impersonated a girl, registered under a false name, or tried to take over this section. Rules are rules. If you need to identify a designer next time girls, post it in the "Everybody" section, otherwise I definitely won't answer even if I know it. Sorry again for posting.

[ilikekicks]

Maybe send a PM ( private message )? I dunno, that could have implications as well. As you have implied : Best thing to do, if its not in the ' everyone ' or ' mens ' area, dont bother with it. I dont even read the womens section as its pointless. I cannot respond ( I can with repercussions ), its an exclusive area, its best to act as if it doesnt exist. Let them, have their place.

[AZShoeNut]

Also, use caution when using the new content feature on a cell phone. I have come close to accidentally replying to a thread in the girls only section that way. Also, I sent a PM to one of the ladies with input regarding one of their threads and I did not receive any kind of reply. Unfortunately I suspect that the PM was not well received. I think that it is like ILK suggests that it is probably best to just keep the nose away from the girls section.

[Shafted]

The entire thread was deleted as it was started by a guy.

[yozz]

The entire thread was deleted as it was started by a guy.

Sounds like a good reason.

I think the complaint in the woman's section is more about guys impersonating women.

That is a legitimate complaint in my eyes. The rules of the board are rather clear about this.

Yet there are those who, for one reason or another, prefer to ignore this and present

themselves in a way that is at odds with the rules.

I guess it requires some Sherlock qualities from the moderators.

Y.

[ilikekicks]

Yozz ( and others ) .. I think we all know that its virtually impossible to verify our genders endless were a known/celebrity type. The only means the mods have is the ' honor system '. I dont care for guys posting with ' womens ' names. It leaves the doors open for intellectual dishonestly.( IE: Posing as a woman and posting in their area ). This is a fashion site, not a fantasy one where you can pretend you dont have a pecker and be addressed by fantasy name. I dont write the rules but can imagine the problems the mods must face when new users sign up and they see new names. The problem/question is ' where is the line drawn '?

[Shafted]

I personally find it quite ironic that a site purporting to support men's equal rights in all things, even has a rule that women only can post in the girls forum but everyone can post in the men's. Seems to me to be supporting gender boundaries.

I do however stick to the rule as I am a man and we all know men can't break the rules, even here.

Now to wait for the warning point.

You'll have to keep waiting.

The guys also had the option of not allowing the girls to post on the guys forum, but as it turned out the guys welcomed comments from the women. Imagine that.

[Steve63130]

Freestyle75, Sorry you got treated the way you did, but you broke the rules, even though you meant well and had nothing but honorable intentions. Best advice is to keep clear of the girls section, and keep your nose clean from here on. Pretend it doesn't exist and you'll not get in hot water again. Steve

[mlroseplant]

Yeah, I did the same thing, and there is zero tolerance. After the fact, a couple of people were kind enough to explain the reasons why via private messages. Bottom line is, at some point back when the guys were allowed to post there, most of the women left the site. So the rule was instituted in an effort to stem the mass exodus. At least that's the way I understand it. I was around in the Jenny days, left for 10 years, and then came back fairly recently. It seems to me that something about the whole tone of the site has changed in the past 10 years. I don't remember any of this sort of thing happening back in the old days. Perhaps it's because the "community" is so much bigger now, but I just remember having a good old time, men and women alike in mixed company. Bubba136 probably remembers better than I do. I'm not questioning the policy, but it does feel completely unnatural to me, because I've hung out with the girls all my life. I'm even allowed in a Vietnamese kitchen, which is completely unheard of, at least in the North (see photo). Mind you, it took me 5 years to get in there! It probably doesn't hurt that I get along very well with my sister-in-law, pictured.

[Shafted]

About the only time I'm lenient on this matter is when a guy posts in the girls forum, pushes post and realized what they did. They then attempt to contact the website team to clean it up. It's an honest mistake. I've done it myself. Just don't make a habit of it please.

The problem/question is ' where is the line drawn '?

The actual line is just as it says in the rules. Nothing more, nothing less. The only exceptions are for website team members conducting forum business.

Also, I sent a PM to one of the ladies with input regarding one of their threads and I did not receive any kind of reply. Unfortunately I suspect that the PM was not well received. I think that it is like ILK suggests that it is probably best to just keep the nose away from the girls section.

Maybe send a PM ( private message )? I dunno, that could have implications as well.

I've initiated PM's to female members on a few occasions for non forum reasons, and it has always been well recieved.

My recommendation though is to feel the person out first to see how they would react to a PM from you. Some people seem beyond this though.

Use the KISS method (Keep It Simple Stupid) with your first PM. Get right to the point and be friendly about it (but not too friendly). Works for me.

I should probably add that actually being able to see me in my avatar probably helps a bit too.

Also being on the website team or maintaining a high post count would tend to make one feel safe.

[ilikekicks]

Im being honest in saying this and ' without disclaimer ' for a change. I think I can understand why some women dont participate in this site outside of the girls section. Ive ( on quite a few occasions ) been mistaken as a woman. Usually by women over the age of 40. Everything is great and when they noticed I was a guy wearing heels, they sort of ' moved on ' or left the vacinity. They werent rude, unkind or unpleasant in any way/shape/form, they just moved away. Some women are a bit uneasy with the idea of men wearing clothing that was supposedly designed for them. Right or wrong, people have the mindset to determine for themselves where their comfort zone is. No law or no other individual can FORCE a change to where someone feels comfortable. No textbook, no ' societal entity ' of any kind. We as people might be able to suggest or support such, but it cannot ever amount to a mandate, their individual core will always trump over what is written and what other people say. Everyone is looking for ' acceptance '. Thats great! We all should! What I fail to see any reasonable argument for though : The women have their section. Its THEIRS. The men have a section, its OURS. We openly accept the ladies in our section. We ' accept them '. Its for THEM to decide if they wish to have the men in their section. Maybe if we EARNED their trust and confidence, we would be allowed in there. WE ( as men ) take their feedback for what its worth. They tend ( for the most part ) to have more experience with heels then we do. They tend to go out ( on average ) to work, special occasions, daily/weekly/monthly in public without any reservations wearing what they wish. We understand such and look for some tips/clues/guidance in that area. Thus, we like to have them around. Let them have their little piece of the forum as their nirvana or sanctuary. Does it really take away from this site that much because of it? There are a few women whom post only in that area. They might not even look at any other area of the site. They dont have to worry about the typical ' b00bs or gtfo ' types of harassing comments. Not that they wouldnt be deleted upon instant viewing from one of the site teams members, but spammers and idiots do exist, we ALL know 3 or 4 of them. Let them have their little forum area, it doesnt take away from anything the rest of us all enjoy! -Ilk

[Shafted]

Hi everyone - especially the female population of this forum:

I guess everyone reads in the girls forum every now and then - even guys. When I was browsing that forum, I noticed that someone had asked to identify a certain pair of heels. Everyone who answered had no clue as to what brand they were. Except for stating that they were ugly, which is not very helpful.

Yesterday, I stumbled upon this pair of heels while browsing on online shoe store and thought: Ok, it might be the girls forum, but whoever asked the question would surely be happy to get it answered. So I posted the answer in the girls forum. I was just stating the designer, the model, where to get it and did post a better quality picture of the heels from the online store.

The reaction? The entire thread was deleted, and a discussion about guys posting in the girls forum was started. In addition, I got a warning.

Personally, this made my day today. I simply cannot get over the fact that I was merely trying to help and got slapped for this. I have not impersonated a girl, registered under a false name, or tried to take over this section.

Rules are rules. If you need to identify a designer next time girls, post it in the "Everybody" section, otherwise I definitely won't answer even if I know it.

Sorry again for posting.

I would PM the original poster with your answer. (PM me if you need help).

I dont care for guys posting with ' womens ' names. It leaves the doors open for intellectual dishonestly.( IE: Posing as a woman and posting in their area ). This is a fashion site, not a fantasy one where you can pretend you dont have a pecker and be addressed by fantasy name. I dont write the rules but can imagine the problems the mods must face when new users sign up and they see new names.

From the moderating point of view, I would have to agree with this, but some members here actually have birth given names that are quite feminine. They certainly deserve to be addressed with the name they were given.

[ilikekicks]

From the moderating point of view, I would have to agree with this, but some members here actually have birth given names that are quite feminine. They certainly deserve to be addressed with the name they were given.

I understand. A guy could be named Jack. Why not use ' Jack ' instead of ' Jackie '. My first name is Dana, but I go by Dan. Not Danielle, Dani or any other thing that could misconstrue myself nor my intentions.

What Im referring to is say.. a guy named Charles.. and using a user name of ' hotchick69 ' and signing their messages as ' Angel ' or some rubbish like that. Really? Seriously? They should go find a gender/fantasy site to do that on, not a fashion site. Have some integrity.

Im not being specific, but a while back Miss Amanda made a comment about the ' trannies taking over ' ( or something to that effect ). I can understand her position after taking a step back and looking with a broader view. I have nothing against transexuals and hope they find the balance they seek in their dilemma of being born wrong or stuck in-between, but if your not partaking in a program or making the effort for some form of progress/transition, your still a guy, post as one!

[Shafted]

What Im referring to is say.. a guy named Charles.. and using a user name of ' hotchick69 ' and signing their messages as ' Angel ' or some rubbish like that. Really? Seriously? They should go find a gender/fantasy site to do that on, not a fashion site. Have some integrity.

Believe me, this raises my hackles as well. I just wish it was as easy as the case you cited or made up, whatever.

I was around in the Jenny days, left for 10 years, and then came back fairly recently. It seems to me that something about the whole tone of the site has changed in the past 10 years.

You're right things have changed in that period. Men are actively seeking to incorporate high heels into their everyday wear.

In the old days anything went, including high heels fetishism. This very damaging however to acceptance to men who simply want to wear high heels.

Men who simply wanted to wear high heels is how this forum started. It's simply getting back to it's roots. Hopefully some of the founding members will take notice of those changes and rejoin us..

I personally would like to hear from the true pioneers again like Firefox and Xaphod.

[SF]

Senor Freestyle, No apology necessary, at least not to me... I wasn't offended, not one bit... We all need to be nicer to one another... Peace, love, hare krishna, and old volkswagens.. Luvnheels, I too find the irony overwhelming....... But hey, we ain't in Kansas anymore.... Take care all, sf

[meganiwish]

If any of the chaps desperately want to answer anything in the girls' section, they're welcome to PM me and I'll be happy to post for them, either quoting them directly or writing it out verbatim with their name, whichever the mods think would be most appropriate. I suppose that using the quote button might blur the lines a bit.

[Curt]

I think maybe the girls shouldn't be allowed to post in the guys section just to keep it fair. What is the point of the for everybody section when everybody can post in the guys section. Somebody please try to make sense of this!

[AZShoeNut]

If any of the chaps desperately want to answer anything in the girls' section, they're welcome to PM me and I'll be happy to post for them, either quoting them directly or writing it out verbatim with their name, whichever the mods think would be most appropriate. I suppose that using the quote button might blur the lines a bit.

Thank you!

[Shafted]

Your great Megan. It's within the rules and I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with it. Hope the PM traffic isn't too overwhelming.

[meganiwish]

I think maybe the girls shouldn't be allowed to post in the guys section just to keep it fair. What is the point of the for everybody section when everybody can post in the guys section. Somebody please try to make sense of this!

I think the sense is to be found in the subtitles for each section. You need to look at it like a Venn diagram (I know you chaps like that sort of thing). Women and men don't look at everything in the same way, but of course there's some overlap. I wish people were more careful about where they put their post. There are a lot of posts in the everyone forum that really belong in the men's one. I can't be very helpful (nor, it must be said, am I that interested) in the issues men have wearing heels. Of course, I'm interested if it gets to deal with the issue on a more social level that has a wider effect, but surely, that belongs in the cafe. (Sorry, what a horrible sentence.) What I'm saying, everyone should think about where the appropriate place is to post. We all get it wrong sometimes, but thinking first is never a bad thing.

I liked this site initially because there was a girls only place. When men are allowed in you'd be surprised how quickly they take over. (Or how much women are ignored in the open forums.) You want women on this site, so you'd like us to answer you things on the men's forum. (I must admit, I rarely look) But you always have the Everyone section to turn to. So, 'I wore heels to the store today' belongs in the men's section, because it's not an issue for women. 'What's the highest heel you could manage?' belongs in the everyone section, since everyone has an opinion. (Oh dear, I've gone from horrible sentence to incompetently written paragraph)

PS I've come close to writing gibberish. I know what I mean, but I doubt anyone could get it from what I've written. Sorry

[jmc]

. . .

I think the complaint in the woman's section is more about guys impersonating women.

. . .

You are absolutely correct -- it has been a problem from day one. The Internet, by its very nature, is an anonymous place and some people like to use this anonymity to their own advantage. We have had members masquerade as females because they thought having access to the "For the Girls" forum would allow them an advantage in picking up women. It didn't work because women don't come here to get "picked up" and eventually, as reality dawned on these members, frustration set in and their true identity became known. The result was not pertty. We have had members masquerade as women because of the excitement of "pulling it off". And they did for a while but eventually living a lie gets boring. And they, perhaps subconsciously, make a slip. People really dislike being lied to.

We know that there are a lot of faux "girls" in our membership. We generally don't have proof. Occasionally we do find proof and we confront the affected member but it takes a lot of effort and some luck to make it happen. We don't, after all, require a DNA sample from new members (and even if we did, we have no way to verify that the sample actually came from the member in question).

We hold the view that it is not possible to fully appreciate high heels without considering the female perspective. Women have made it clear that they want a shield from male interference in their forum aned we extend this to them as a courtesy. I think most of us would agree the ladies deserve this courtesy at the very least.

I personally find it quite ironic that a site purporting to support men's equal rights in all things, even has a rule that women only can post in the girls forum but everyone can post in the men's. Seems to me to be supporting gender boundaries.

. . .

Do you really have an issue with a lady visiting the guys' forum?

The women want a place of their own -- they have made this abundantly clear. Don't they deserve it?

. . . Bottom line is, at some point back when the guys were allowed to post there, most of the women left the site. So the rule was instituted in an effort to stem the mass exodus. At least that's the way I understand it.

. . .

Your understanding is correct. Guys, in a stunning demonstration of a dearth of self-control, practically overran the girls' forum and the women felt unappreciated if not mildly threatened. So they left.

[Dr. Shoe]

Many years ago, we had Jenny's High Heel site and most of the membership were women. Quite a lot of guys joined over the years and most were heel enthusiasts of one form or another. This lead to Jenny creating a section for guys and everyone was happy. Soon though, Firefox started another site because Jenny's was in decline and most of the members migrated to the new site. The problem was that we were getting a lot of guys joining who had no real interest in wearing but were admirers in the worst possible sense of the word. A woman would make an innocent post about buying a certain pair of shoes and the following posts would all be from guys asking for dates or her phone number. We also had a lot of spammers. Eventually, Tech took the site over and actively recruited a team of mods and we made the decision to create a Girls Only section so that they wouldn't be put off by perverts asking for dates based solely (sorry) on their choice of footwear. Now, here's a question to all you guys: If you posted in the Guy's section that you had just bought a new pair of heels and a woman asked you for a date, would you be upset? Would you leave the site never to come back? I don't think so.

[Shafted]

I think maybe the girls shouldn't be allowed to post in the guys section just to keep it fair. What is the point of the for everybody section when everybody can post in the guys section. Somebody please try to make sense of this!

It"s the way the guys wanted it. If popular opinion from the guys want it to be guys only, then that is what it will be. It's that simple. No need to make it complicated.

[ilikekicks]

It"s the way the guys wanted it. If popular opinion from the guys want it to be guys only, then that is what it will be. It's that simple. No need to make it complicated.

I have no issue being inclusive. If another group wishes to ' not be ', that is for them to decide on.

I just dont want " Fantasy Trannies " pretending to be women and go into their section..

Ive had the chance to have some short and long conversations with Patsy Cline, Dr. Shoe, Amanda Snake, Megan.. a bunch of the regular women here and I enjoy their perspectives from music to fashion to other things we have spoken of ( an estimate on what it would cost to fix the walls in a house ).. If they want their own little section to not be bothered in, so what?

As you have stated ( shafted ) if the men took a vote and booted the women out of the ' for the guys section ', fine - so it may be, but because one section isnt inclusive doesnt mean others cant be.

I would surely miss having the ladies around in the ' for the guys ' section.

[meganiwish]

I don't know if the younger women share this experience, but I'm quite used to feeling sidelined in mixed social groups (it happened less at work. Hmm, that's interesting). The chaps seem to get rather competitive,and I'm not in the game, but maybe that's just my perception. Either way, I don't post much in the girls' forum, but I do like it as a bolt hole. I think the girls only forum is a mark of how civilised this site is. I like it here because I'm never afraid that someone will be rude to me.

[JustJenny]

I was happy to see this discussion come to the top. Its obvious that the "women" participating in the women's section is on the decline. I know there are guys posting as women and I've discussed it with one of the moderators. It's obvious to me who the guys are. I doubt many women troll youtube for videos of high heels and post them, I doubt many women when posting pics of their new shoes have to take the picture themselves. When I go shoe shopping I'm almost never alone and I've asked my g/f on several occasions to take pictures. Shoe shopping is an event! hahaha or at least it is for us. Not too many women use shoe pics for avatars, wearing heels is normal for us! But don't think it goes beyond a few. But I think a few of the guys/girls posting in the girls section are not a few different men, but the same guys posting under different accounts. You know who you are! WOW! this turned out to be more of a rant than a post and I'm sorry. Whew....I'm exhausted! Jenny

[Shafted]

But I think a few of the guys/girls posting in the girls section are not a few different men, but the same guys posting under different accounts.

If that part were so the admins would pick up on it as there would be an IP address collision (Multiple accounts from the same IP address).

[yozz]

If that part were so the admins would pick up on it as there would be an IP address collision (Multiple accounts from the same IP address).

If my wife would have an account here (she does not) she would have the same IP address.

But you would notice by the completely different use of language.

Exactly the same use of language often shows such double accounts, but it requires quite some study. It needs an accumulation of posts. I do not think the moderators have time for that unless there is a particularly annoying incident.

Y.

[SleekHeels]

I don't know if the younger women share this experience, but I'm quite used to feeling sidelined in mixed social groups (it happened less at work. Hmm, that's interesting). The chaps seem to get rather competitive,and I'm not in the game, but maybe that's just my perception.

Speaking as a guy I think you're right about that Megan. Of course there are exceptions but on the whole men do seem to compete with each other to try to demonstrate superior knowledge and knock down what others are saying, whereas women do tend to show more empathy in their conversations. On the other hand I've had women friends tell me that there's often an air of insincerity about that empathy whereas they find the directness of male company quite refreshing.

Strangely I tend to feel more sidelined in mixed social groups at work, perhaps because that competitive way of interacting is seen as more aspirational and overpowers our more collaborative qualities. Maybe that's why I like wearing heels as a guy, as an expression that those collaborative qualities are more aspirational than the selfish individualism that predominates in society, and that a bit more femininity in the world would make it a better place. For some reason most guys feel threatened by the very thought of that, like it's some kind of competition! "The gold medal for insecurity goes to..."

[meganiwish]

Indeed. I should be fair and admit that work was primary (elementary) school teaching. We were mostly women, and it was hard for men. Still,, few are the men who take my education seriously.