What have we achieved to date ?

[kikepa]

I have noticed that a lot more guys are wearing heels in the fetish clubs and I don't think it will be more than another 8 years before we are seeing them more on the street.

I went to Club Rub about the same time I joined this forum and apart from the trannies, I was the only guy in heels there, now it's more like 50-60%...

I'm not much of a clubber, but I wore heels to a transgender club eight years ago thinking I'd fit right in. It was either guys in drag, transexuals, or guys gawking at them. I went again last summer, and noticed maybe ten guys in heels out of about a hundred, and a handful wearing obviously androgynous (female, but not overtly so) clothing.

It's improvement.

[Arctic]

I am the first one to agree that we are far from the desired state but we do have made great progress. For my cause, which is the acceptance of high heels as regular male footwear, many things are now a lot better than they were in the end of the nineties. In many cities large and small all around the civilized world, a guy now can get away with wearing whatever mainstream footwear he pleases and not get too much of a different treatment than women. That means, other things being equal, like weight and stylishness of the rest of the attire. In practice this could mean: a well dressed, non obese, style conscious male on proportionally correct heels is likely to get a lot less attention than, for example, a fat mis-coordinated girl on stilettos. It was well noted that battles are fought one at a time. Heelmeets are a good example of a successful approach: lots of exposure in one city at one time. We are now on that level that many cities have had initial exposure of guys on heels, but anyone in advertising or communication knows that exposure and repetition are key to change a collective mindset. Which brings me to the following: We also must recognize the limited absolute size of the niche we are in. We are pushing a phenomenon that concerns way less than one percent of the population. If we put it in perspective of how long it took for homosexuality to become accepted, or before blacks got equal treatment in the US, we are doing not all that bad. Racism is still rampant in many places with tens or more % of immigrant population. Also, heroes do make a difference. People who take a cause and push it for the benefit of the entire community. Kneehighs, Firefox, and Xaphod, and a few others, the list is not very long and we all know who they are. Just recognize that these changes take place on a galactic time scale, that apartheid and the Berlin wall fell less than a generation ago, and that people still today get discriminated against for their skin color alone. So the change that happened over the last decade or so might not be radical, but that is usually not the case for things this big. In some cities it is "less of a problem" to be wearing heels than to be of different color, and while that is not good news in itself, the high heel community, relatively speaking, is in a good position.

[Arctic]

^ Great way to keep everything in perspective!

You belong on the pinnacle, though. Forget about the perspective

PS, are you going to start a blog when you continue to make your way into the heart of the fashion industry and no longer have time for this?

[Thighboots2]

Artic, If there was a "Say Thanks" button, I would click it. I concur with Kneehighs. Simon.

[RonC]

After much reading and thought, I do have to post here. I have read many times the statements by those of us that street heel that they didn't hear a single comment..... While I am not at all surprised by that, I sincerely do not believe that it is, as so many have stated, because no one noticed. If you are walking through a mall or store in high heels, believe me, people will notice. First off, there are millions of guys out there that absolutely love a woman in high heels. If they hear the sound of heels, they are going to look! Second, women tend to notice what other women are wearing, and again, hearing the sound of heels, at least some are going to look. And that doesn't mention those who just happened to catch a glimpse while minding their own business. My point is, I wouldn't go along thinking "no one noticed". The better statement is, no one said anything, or no one laughed or had a bad comment. Trust me, it is like seeing someone with an obviously bad toupee. While 99% of the public isn't going to say a stinking word about it to the person wearing the silly rug, they did notice. And when that person is gone, someone is going to hear about the guy in the "bad rug". And I'm sure it most likely will be with a laugh. I'm quite certain that many, many times the people have seen you took note, but certainly will mind their own business and not say a word to you, or purposely mock you in any way. But see you they did, and someone will hear about the guy in women's shoes or high heels that they saw today. And I sincerely doubt that many have said, "yeah, but boy, did he look great in them", and actually meant it. This is not meant to be a put down in any way, as I've worn some heels in public in my day as well, and have tried on heels in many stores. But I am not so naive to think that no one noticed or cared. They were, just like 90% of the population, too polite or non-confrontational to have any interest in bringing it to your attention. But I'm willing to bet that somewhere, you have the reputation as "they guy in heels", and it's not necessarily the most positive of reputations. For the most part, I really don't care, as I hope to never see most of the public that might notice again in my life. But I'm sure that the clerk at the local Payless store has told many of her friends about me! Thankfully, I don't know them, and they don't know who I am!

[tcollins]

I too believe that RonC is correct. I believe we are being noticed more often than we think. It wasn't all that long ago that I remember seeing someone dressed in out-of-place attire (the first guys wearing earrings, the girl with the cool-aid pink hair, the goth/emo guy with the dark eyes and Mohawk, etc). At the time these people were considered by society as unusual, or rebellious, or just plain weird. Like many of you, I noticed these people, thought of them as unusual and weird, and then without saying a word, went about my business. I may have mentioned it to a friend (especially if I new the person) or more than likely just filed it away. But as time when on, more and more guys started wearing earrings, girls (and guys) died their hair, and the goth/emo groups continued to dress in dark clothing, wear dark eyeliner with strait dark hair and sport multiple facial piercing. And now that same guy from the 80's wearing an earring is considered completely normal, more and more women (and men) are highlighting their hair with non natural coloring (reds and black/blond are popular here), and the goth/emo image (although curtailed) has become quite commonplace with men, now more than ever, wearing eyeliner (Russell Brand, Robbie Williams, Brandon Flowers, Alex Zane, etc). These are just a couple of many examples, however the point remains. Yes, I do agree that unless we are "street heeling" in complete stealth, we are being noticed. And just like with our predecessors, people are either to polite or non-confrontational or just don't care enough to say anything. And just like our predecessors, eventually with enough exposure and time, men who wear high heels will become commonplace.

[Bootking]

I sincerely do not believe that it is, as so many have stated, because no one noticed.

If you are walking through a mall or store in high heels, believe me, people will notice.

RonC, I cannot agree with you more. There is no doubt whatsoever that as I (and many others) streetheel, obviously or not, we are seen and noticed. But as you mention, people's social mores are polite enough not to say anything. But we would be very foolish to believe that we are not seen or heard! Lately, my street heeling has been in 4" stiletto boots, knee high over jeans (see my avatar) or ankle/calf high under jeans. This has been in malls, rest areas, small stores, Wal-Mart, etc. etc. where only in one possible instance did I hear anything that could be construed toward me (if so, it was negative). Whether the general silence eventually turns toward indifference and then acceptance, we would need the old crystal ball to find it. In the meantime, I try to just go about my way as if the 4" thing was "normal" for me.

[RonC]

Great observations and comments TCollins and Bootking. I guess I was just hearing that comment that "no one noticed" a few too many times. Of course they noticed! A guy in high heels, and especially in the type of heels that it seems most of us prefer to wear, is just not going to blend in with the wallpaper. I have to admit though, TCollins, that I still find the Goth look to be one that I have a hard time with...lol.

[Bubba136]

I also agree with the premise that those of us that wear our high heels in public don't go unnoticed. I have been guilty of using that phrase to describe people's reaction to my wandering streets and mall hallways while wearing my women's boots and shoes. However, the pure intent in my using this phrase is to relate the fact that "there hasn't been (or wasn’t) any overt reaction from anyone noticing that I was wearing woman's shoes. Just another thought about today’s society reacting to things that used to be regarded as unaccustomed, inappropriate or out of the ordinary. When I was a small boy, my Grandmother always reminded me that "you have to dress to the occasion." If you are working in the garden it is appropriate to wear jeans, work shoes and work shirts. If you are going to work at your place of business, you dress for the type of job you are doing to earn your living. If you are going to church, you dress in your best clothes -- not to impress other people but to let everyone know that you have respect for the place and the ceremony. It is only common courtesy to dress for the occasion and behave accordingly, she would say. She would never leave the house without getting dressed. To go shopping for anything – groceries, clothes, even kitchen appliances -- without being “suitable” dressed. As she told me time and again, how can anyone take someone dressed like a "hobo" seriously when negotiating the purchase of a new refrigerator, automobile or even groceries for Sunday dinner? My wife, although raised several hundred miles further south than my home on the eastern shore in Maryland, was taught the very same rules of etiquette and courtesy. She's taught them to our children and still faithfully practices them to this day (and is quick to point out whenever me or one of our children slip). These rules are at the very "core" of her wonderful personality. Today's society has been "ghettoized." We've been repeatedly told that the poor are people too. And just because they can't read, write, speak, smell bad or react to issues and circumstances in what has always been called "a civilized manner," isn't appropriate these days. It's ok today for a middle school aged child to call their teacher "a fuc--ng whore" to her face in front of the entire class to go unpunished. It's ok today to grab a woman by their "private parts" and take liberties that in days past would have resulted in their incarceration in jail for a minimum of five years. Or, the possibility of being shot through the head because you "dissed" someone in front of their contemporaries. Who are we to judge? After all, bottom feeders are "people to." While I am not equating any of us that wear our heels in public in this category, I am saying that our "not getting any overt reaction" to what is still viewed by a greater part of the population as "deviant social behavior,” it is the same "oh well, it's their "thing" or "business...." and, if it floats their boat, then it's no skin off of my nose, reaction – which is why, while we are being noticed, we’re seeing hardly any (overt) visible reaction.

[RonC]

So, Bubba, do we long for the old days, or be happy that we can walk in public while wearing high heels and no one says much of anything? Tough choice, but personally, I think times were much better in the 50s & early 60s than what we have today. The world was a kinder, more gentle place in which to live (and the heels were kinda nice in those years too!...lol).

[Bubba136]

So, Bubba, do we long for the old days, or be happy that we can walk in public while wearing high heels and no one says much of anything? Tough choice, but personally, I think times were much better in the 50s & early 60s than what we have today. The world was a kinder, more gentle place in which to live (and the heels were kinda nice in those years too!...lol).

Thanks for your take, RonC. I have to rely on your, and others word, though. I was born in 1956. And, lived in Europe and other places around the world during the 60 and in the 70's. However, based on what I've been told, life back in the 50's and 60's -- until the Vietnam war days -- was a lot easier and more pleasant.

[kikepa]

So, Bubba, do we long for the old days, or be happy that we can walk in public while wearing high heels and no one says much of anything? Tough choice, but personally, I think times were much better in the 50s & early 60s than what we have today. The world was a kinder, more gentle place in which to live (and the heels were kinda nice in those years too!...lol).

Man, I can't agree. Although born in the 60s, even then people were looked down on for being different, even though "different" was as benign as having longer hair, wearing a colorful shirt, or bell-bottomed jeans. We've been in an ever-increasing acceptance of things further from the norm.

If I were a straight-laced, short-haired, suit and tied engineer with a slide rule and a pencil protector, sure - I'd love to go back to the 50s. And people were much more polite then - so long as you fit in.

As a long-haired, earring and heel-wearing guy who wears androgynous clothing, I wouldn't want to go back at all. I'd either be kicked out of town, or thrown in jail by a judge intent on helping me "straighten up and fly right" simply because my choice of attire is ruled as a dredge on society. If not beat, ridiculed, used for target practice, or an opportunity for the pent-up to vent their frustrations in life.

No way.

We're firmly in the 21st Century, and I'm here to stay.

[Bubba136]

granted, life would have been a lot harder for anyone that was a non-conformist. However, life was, as nearly as I can determine, a lot easier back then. Give a little and take a little. Neither era is 100% satisfactory to all.

[Tech]

granted, life would have been a lot harder for anyone that was a non-conformist. However, life was, as nearly as I can determine, a lot easier back then. Give a little and take a little. Neither era is 100% satisfactory to all.

Indeed, very well put Bubba, and of course, dont forget the health and safety police, the "politically correct" brigade and the "Fine you for everything" squads we have to put up with in today's society.

So I guess with more liberty, come more restrictions, odd balance indeed

[vector]

...Today's society has been "ghettoized." We've been repeatedly told that the poor are people too. And just because they can't read, write, speak, smell bad or react to issues and circumstances in what has always been called "a civilized manner," isn't appropriate these days. It's ok today for a middle school aged child to call their teacher "a fuc--ng whore" to her face in front of the entire class to go unpunished. It's ok today to grab a woman by their "private parts" and take liberties that in days past would have resulted in their incarceration in jail for a minimum of five years. Or, the possibility of being shot through the head because you "dissed" someone in front of their contemporaries. Who are we to judge? After all, bottom feeders are "people to."...

Bubba, I don't understand. Where is it OK, not unpunished, but OK or legal to grab a woman's privates, call a teacher foul names, etc as you stated in your post?

If the poor are not people, who are they? Maybe we should take a page from that 80's group the "Dead Kennedy's" and "Kill the Poor"- as one of their songs was titled. Maybe bottom feeders are NOT people.

Re: Life being easier in the 50’s and 60’s- SURE, if you weren’t minority, especially in the US.

[Bubba136]

Ah, vector....don't apply your pointy-headed liberal rhetoric to my comment. You know as well as I do that there are accepted norms for civilized behavior and if you believe it is OK not to adhere to them, then it's on you buddy! But, don't misconstrue what I say just to suit your own situation.

[BobHH]

One of the main things that was nicer in the old days was that there were fewer people, so it wasn't so crowded, there was more open country, and one could get away from it all much more easily. It is very difficult to get away from people in Southern California, with a hundred plus miles of urbanization from San Diego to Los Angeles and east. I used to be able to drive out into the country and wear my heels out and around. Today there is no open country within reach.

[vector]

Ah, vector....don't apply your pointy-headed liberal rhetoric to my comment. You know as well as I do that there are accepted norms for civilized behavior and if you believe it is OK not to adhere to them, then it's on you buddy! But, don't misconstrue what I say just to suit your own situation.

I was just trying to get my "pointy head" around your "blubber headed" (and perhaps blabber mouthed) conservative spouting and understand it. I didn't say there weren't norms, but wanted to know when violating them (and the corresponding laws) became ok?

But hey, why be logical when you can call people names!

[kikepa]

Easy, you two. It's not worth it. The thread's about what we've achieved to date, remember? Ok..

[Bubba136]

I was just trying to get my "pointy head" around your "blubber headed" (and perhaps blabber mouthed) conservative spouting and understand it. I didn't say there weren't norms, but wanted to know when violating them (and the corresponding laws) became ok?

But hey, why be logical when you can call people names!

OK, vector. But, I didn't "call you names."

Now, let me see.....I was originally describing how much more "uncomplicated" life was back in the 60's...and, regardless of how much the politically correct crowd disagrees with me, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Back to things about heels and such. So let's let go of this one.

[Dawn HH]

O.K. guys, play nice. Lets get back to shooting our marbles over talking about high heels. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[jmc]

Easy, you two. It's not worth it. The thread's about what we've achieved to date, remember? Ok..

. . . and fighting amongst ourselves will do nothing to further our cause!

[yozz]

Chalk down another advance: A few days ago there was a game show on Dutch TV and the question was "what percentage of high heel wearers has a heel related accident during their life?" The answer was 40%, but then the thing came: the host said: this happens to women.....mostly. Nice to see that people are aware of men wearing heels, especially since the organization he represents is rather conservative, but he himself tries to project a rather modern image. Looks like there is a slow advance. Y.

[Dawn HH]

You know what they say in the story, "The Tortoise and the Hare"? The Turtle wins. Slow and easy does it. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[vector]

OK, Bubba, I guess adjectives would be more correct. But I'm done and will even let you have the last word if you desire.

A few days ago there was a game show on Dutch TV and the question was "what percentage of high heel wearers has a heel related accident during their life?" The answer was 40%, but then the thing came: the host said: this happens

to women.....mostly.

For me this is quite interesting to hear from what sounds like a "mainstream show"!!

[Bubba136]

A few days ago there was a game show on Dutch TV and the question was "what percentage of high heel wearers has a heel related accident during their life?" The answer was 40%, but then the thing came: the host said: this happens

to women.....mostly.

Y.

Comics and/or game show hosts usually toss lines like that into their "patter" for humor..I would guess that there was a lot of laughter from that.....

[yozz]

Comics and/or game show hosts usually toss lines like that into their "patter" for humor..I would guess that there was a lot of laughter from that.....

Actually not as this one is without public. It is just a word game where the contestants

have to answer questions to get letters in a sentence and the see who gets the

sentence first. In this case the answer (40%) was already given and they had to

work their way to the question. After one of them got it right he made that remark.

This guy just wants to look smart and show off that he knows a lot.

That is why I see it as a real remark, but of course he could be referring to TV's

rather than our community.

Y.

[Bubba136]

This guy just wants to look smart and show off that he knows a lot.

Y.

Actually, that is what I really meant, more or less. Just a smartass that wanted to appear humorous.