D.I.Y. (in heels of course)

[Cali]

I wanted to give mlroseplant back his topic and provide a space for all those building practices.

Hey, I hope to build a new house next year.  

[p1ng74]

I have a basic electrical question for you all.  Yesterday I got on the ladder wearing my elephant boots with 2.25” heels to diagnose a string of Christmas lights that had gone dark.  I assume the fuse blew, but to check I put the multimeter up to the narrow hot prong of the plug to verify that it was broken.  Then I tested the wide neutral prong, only to discover that it is connected to the prongs at the base of the light sockets... not the tab on the side socket as I would expect.  This is a fairly old string of lights that uses mini screw sockets, and I can find no evidence that it has been tampered with, and I would assume it came off the factory line this way, with the hot side going through the prong on the socket itself, rather than the tab at the base.  Does this seem weird to anyone?  I am particularly sensitive to this detail because I know of at least one light socket in my house that was done completely backwards, and I found out the hard way once while managing to touch the socket while changing the light bulb...

All that said, the plug on these Christmas lights was fused together and I could not get it apart, so I ended up replacing the whole plug.  Unfortunately the local store only had a plug that uses symmetrical prongs, so it is now totally random which prong will end up hot or neutral.  Is this unsafe?   

Edited December 11, 2018 by p1ng74

[HappyinHeels]

p1ng74,

Whilst I would normally advocate fixing such a thing I have noticed that light strings these days are so inexpensive that I would just go get a new one. The light strings of the 1970's used larger bulbs which screwed into brass fittings and burned hotter than today's. There was also a much greater chance of getting a buzz while you were working with them. That's would I would do. HinH

[at9]

Unless it's a historic set of xmas lights then I agree  with HiH, get a new set.

To best tool for diagnosing breaks in strings of xmas lights is a voltstick. https://voltstick.com/

Similar products are available made by many companies.

For many years xmas light were made with unpolarised connectors, both in the US and UK, so there's no real hazard here. Especially if your house has a RCD (GFI).

It's not always realised that xmas tree light bulbs are meant to fail short circuit.Hence 1 or 2 failing will leave the string working. If too many fail the string will be overrun leading to rapid failure of all the bulbs.

[HappyinHeels]

p1ng74,

See, you ask a question here and get the best free electrical advice on the planet. As at9 says if you're plugging into a GFI or GCFI outlet then the outlet sorts out the issues and will shut off the current flowing from it at the first hint of trouble. Hotter bulbs in unpolarised connectors led to many more fires back in the 1970's and before. Outdoor outlets are supposed to be GFI as well as those in bathrooms, kitchens, and anywhere else within 6-8 feet of a water source. While not required it is preferable to have GFI outlets in basements owing to higher humidity. Now go out and get that new light string. HinH

[at9]

I'm not entirely familiar with US electrical codes but I am pretty much up to date with UK wiring regulations.

UK: RCD = US: GFI

UK: Earth = US: Ground

UK: Live = US: Hot (i think)

In the UK RCDs are now required on new instals for ALL circuits (17th and the new 18th edition regs). They have been compulsory for outdoor sockets and various other cases for many years. Until fairly recently socket outlets have not been permitted at all in bathrooms (that's UK sense, a room containing a bathtub or shower). It's now allowed subject to certain conditions.

All UK socket outlets are polarised by design and have been for many decades. This is not the case in the US or mainland Europe.

In any case, how are you meant a get a decent electric shock off 120V:-)

Please don't take my last remark literally. I've had a few 240V mains shocks and they hurt. I've also had 120V shocks and on the whole they aren't too bad. But I'd still prefer not to have them. The 1200V DC shock I had once was VERY unpleasant. The lowest voltage known to have killed somebody I think was 32V. You'd probably have to have your hands in salty water and have a weak heart to do that.

 

[p1ng74]

It took a lot of ladder climbing last month to secure this string of lights, so I just replaced the plug with the intention of keeping this string on for the rest of this year, and then I’ll toss it when I take it down.  

[swedeheeler]

Well. I restore a house for myself, in a early stage when I isolated the foundation with styrofoam sheets and locked the layers together with plastic hobnails (before casting) I used the heels on my aliexpress leo ankle booties to push down the nails through all sheet layers. That went out very well actually 

[pebblesf]

This topic is one I have wrestled with for sure.  I have a couple of decorative deer that include many white lights, spent too many hours troubleshooting bad bulbs, then even more time trying to find the appropriate 3.5V bulbs.  We also had a tree with "pre strung lights", which was a big mistake....Try troubleshooting strings that are out, even with that fancy circuit/light checker gadget they promote this time of year!  Finally gave up, bought a new tree with no lights, future problems can be solved with a new string of lights or troubleshooting them off the tree.  The big problem with today's lights is they are wired in series, so when one goes out, the rest go out....Even though they advertise that a dead bulb won't knock out the rest of the string, maybe or maybe not.  Some of these strings have a few circuits on them, so only 1/2 or 1/3 of the lights go out if the circuit is broken.   Good luck trying to troubleshoot this stuff. 

Older lights from years ago, were the screw in type, and were wired in parallel, so a dead/broken bulb did not affect the rest of the string.  I'm not sure just what type of light socket you are referring to, so it is hard to comment on whether it is polarized properly....I agree with everyone else, would definitely make sure the outlet is GFI to avoid problems.  And, I like your solution...Don't be stubborn and cheap like me, toss that string out at the end of the holiday season....

[Cali]

Wait for after christmas sales on christmas lights. They are greatly reduced then but sell out fast.  With the old strings, cut out a working section and use a battery (like a D-cell) to power them and string a set around your body for the holidays.

I have a santa hat with a string of 12 around the rim.  Have fun.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Cali

[HappyinHeels]

Or affix a set of lights to the grill of your vehicle like some truckers do HinH

[p1ng74]

I have another basic question for you all.  We have a GFI outlet in the barn on its own 20A breaker and my wife wanted more outlets.  I had a double box laying around so I thought I would just wire in another GFI outlet in parallel.  It’s all in and working, but I had not realized how tight it would be between the two GFI units.  I am worried about the hot and neutral sides being too close?  Am I doing this wrong or is this ok?

[mlroseplant]

First, you don't actually need two GFCI outlets in the same box. You could have used one GFCI and one regular outlet, wiring the regular outlet on the "load" side of the GFCI, which will protect both units. 

However, since you've already got two GFCIs installed, I wouldn't bother changing it now. What I always do as a matter of standard practice is run a couple of layers of electrical tape around the entire outlet, in order to cover up the terminal screws. That will eliminate any reason for concern, and your wife can be happy as well. A win/win!

[p1ng74]

30 minutes ago, mlroseplant said:

First, you don't actually need two GFCI outlets in the same box. You could have used one GFCI and one regular outlet, wiring the regular outlet on the "load" side of the GFCI, which will protect both units. 

However, since you've already got two GFCIs installed, I wouldn't bother changing it now. What I always do as a matter of standard practice is run a couple of layers of electrical tape around the entire outlet, in order to cover up the terminal screws. That will eliminate any reason for concern, and your wife can be happy as well. A win/win!

Thanks!  I had thought about just attaching a regular plug to the load side but didn’t know if that was good practice or not.  Since I need a GFI for another location I might swap it out and save a few bucks, and this time wrap the outlet with electrical tape.  

[mlroseplant]

3 hours ago, p1ng74 said:

Thanks!  I had thought about just attaching a regular plug to the load side but didn’t know if that was good practice or not.  Since I need a GFI for another location I might swap it out and save a few bucks, and this time wrap the outlet with electrical tape.  

Yes, that is a very normal thing to do with a double duplex outlet like you have, and it will function like you expect. Where people run into trouble is when they try to "slave" many outlets, maybe even an entire circuit run, off of a single GFCI outlet. That will often cause a lot of nuisance tripping. But just running one extra outlet within the same enclosure will be just fine. Of course, you'll have to get a different faceplate, but those are very commonly available and cheap. 

[p1ng74]

On 12/29/2018 at 10:47 PM, mlroseplant said:

Yes, that is a very normal thing to do with a double duplex outlet like you have, and it will function like you expect. Where people run into trouble is when they try to "slave" many outlets, maybe even an entire circuit run, off of a single GFCI outlet. That will often cause a lot of nuisance tripping. But just running one extra outlet within the same enclosure will be just fine. Of course, you'll have to get a different faceplate, but those are very commonly available and cheap. 

Yeah I had to deal with that once.  An outlet in the living room suddenly went dead.  I finally traced the break all the way around to the kitchen where it was run into the load side of a GFI that had nothing plugged into it but had tripped...