Alex Jones (Gun Thread)

[ilikekicks]

Shafted : I agree that ' mainstream media ' doesnt provide anything but ' opinion piece ' articles. Nothing is factually supported and why I believe there are very few qualified ' Journalists ' left on the planet. Conspiracy stories? One needs look no further then Kennedy to see how things have been covered up and that the real truth isnt out there.

[hoverfly]

The true test of a society is how they treat the minority.

So true! There are many forms of minorities. Just like many others on this board, I am so "dynamic" people treat me differently.

[meganiwish]

The true test of a society is how they treat the minority.

Like

[Logjam]

ILK - regarding your previous post (#27) - well thought out and articulated, in my opinion. Hat's off to you. Regards, Logjam

[Dr. Shoe]

Why would anyone want to own a gun?

[hoverfly]

Why would anyone want to own a gun?

No offense, If you have to ask you really do not need to understand. You are just simply not in touch with that part of reality.

[Bubba136]

Why would anyone want to own a gun?

It's not why would anyone want to own a gun as it is not being able to own one should anyone want to own one. Especially since the 2nd Amendment to the U.S Constitution specifically states that the right to own a gun "shall not be infringed".

tttt such generalization...

ps English are europeans

Not the ones I know!

[Amanda]

Why would anyone want to own a gun?

I agree, simply rediculous

[Rockpup]

They can be fun. I enjoy the challenge of hitting dead center of the bullzeye. I suspect it taps into the bit of the brain wired for hunting, although I do not feel the need to drag a dead animal through the woods when I have zero clue how to deal with the meat I might get.

As into guns as I am, some of the stuff available to those with an unlimited budget can get spooky.

Want a minigun? (3000 rounds per minute)

Sure, there are a few registered and legal to transfer. They cost $500,000+ at this point.

The issue I have had is that the media keeps using the term "automatic weapons" when refering to the semi auto assault rifles used recently. 3 months ago the semi auto weapons used in Aurora and CT were between $800-1500. The full auto versions are between $15,000-$30,000. This is why in the history of the NFA registration of full auto weapons only legally owned automatic weapon has been used in a crime. It was by a police officer who was mad that a suspect was released on a technicality.

[meganiwish]

No offense, If you have to ask you really do not need to understand. You are just simply not in touch with that part of reality.

Actually, I think that's a rather rude response to Dr Shoe's reasonable question. You could have said for sport, lest my government turn on me, because I get joy out of hitting a target, because that's how I get my meat... I normally find when someone says 'No offence' they're about to offend me (or at least try to).

[Rockpup]

I am starting to wonder if a gun ban will turn out to work as well as our alcohol ban did.

[meganiwish]

Yes, Prohibition was such a success, wasn't it?

[ilikekicks]

ILK - regarding your previous post (#27) - well thought out and articulated, in my opinion. Hat's off to you.

Regards,

Logjam

What too many people believe is that we are on some form of a ' higher elevation ' in our thoughts and principles in present times. That we are long past the barbaric ways of those whom came before us.

The age of ' Pseudo Intellectualism ' so to call it. All of these people are under the belief they have this notion of ' critical thinking '. That everyone is so smart and they have all these degrees and qualifications..

I will say this and offend a LOT of people in doing such but its history. Its the blatant truth.

A degree in a nice glass faced frame and many textbooks backing it ( usually ) will NOT stop a bullet. While people are laying there bleeding in the streets, believing all this ' intellectualism ' would save their better life ', It has done nothing but made them look as relevant as useless carbon material. PolPot made such an *example* based in 100% pure facts. 1.4million people murdered and close to another 2 million starved. This was in the late 60's early 70's, not the time when muskets and sabres were the weapons of choice. This wasnt before the telephone or TV or cars.. this is in modern times.

To say such aggravates the hell out of those whom wish to impose their beliefs upon other. To actually stand up and say the truth will get you censored. You will always be viewed as vile, ' dumb ' or on the lowest rungs of humanity.

Its the ' Political Class ' ( Overeducated know it alls ) trying to put others into submission. They SAY they are great people and have given the world so much prosperity.. Yet they rape mankind for all its worth and arent even bright enough to realize what they are doing.

Why would anyone want to own a gun?

I say this hoping its not to be taken as an insult.

13 colonies explained and answered by demonstration of such to your crown the answer to your question. This was over 200 years ago. Its a historic answer for sure but a very ' politically correct ' one, probably one your not going to appreciate, but I think the simplicity of it cuts through the chase and shows the perspective of ' why would anyone want to own a gun '.

People in the middle east right now could demonstrate exactly why they would ' want ' a gun. If not to get rid of a dictator then to protect themselves from religious oppression/zealots.

If you feel so secure in the system you are in, I could understand why you might seen no need for such weapons.

From your asking of such a Question and ' Amanda ' believing such is ( more or less ) a joke, it shows how people can BELIEVE they are secure in their liberty.

If 6 million Jews were armed, they wouldnt have been put into ovens so easily. Their motto of ' Never Again ' holds true for they have learned from making such a mistake in the past/before.

We are all human beings, yet not equal under the laws. Tyranny can come from where we least expect it. If one thinks of Government as a ' Friend ' they can trust, think of how many times your own ' friends ' have wronged you in your ( our ) own lives.

No offense, If you have to ask you really do not need to understand. You are just simply not in touch with that part of reality.

Hoverfly...

There are many great people out there whom believe they live ' freely '.

Look at the guys on this site whom are afraid to wear a pair of shoes out in public. Is that ' freedom '? Being boxed up in your own mind? Feeling the pressure of society to ' conform! '. Is that true liberty?

' We dont know what we have till its gone ' is a very true statement. Most of Europe has no idea on many things. I see such in Younger Canadians whom visit Buffalo. They have never been allowed to choose in certain aspects of their lives. To them, they dont feel they are missing anything. They are fully adapted to a system that was institutionalized/forced upon them and they have never really given much thoughts to something different then what they know.

After the Civil War in 1865 with the enactment of the Reconstruction Laws, many former slaves didnt know what to do with themselves. Quite a few just stayed on the plantations as if nothing changed. They knew nothing of how to ' go on ' with their lives. All they ever knew was working the farm. The Jim Crow laws in 1867 started to put a focus or a message out to those people to say ' Your Free! You can do as you like ' but their whole perception of reality was crashed down upon them.

Im sure someone is/will be offended, but heres reality : London/UK is the most violent part of the whole EU. Since they have outlawed the means for people to protect themselves, their crime rates have skyrocketted. 47,000 women are raped each year in the UK.! The statistics for a woman being raped in the UK are on par with Chicago in the US!

http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/crime-prevention/latest-crime-statistics <-- link to UK's criminal problems.

In the US, we have shootings. We have burglaries. We have violent crime. Countries with bans on weapons STILL have the same problems, often with higher rates. Its a fact that many wish to be ' dismissed ' but WONT be.

The difference between the 2 ' mindsets ' is *I* ( and others ) realize the problem is with ' bad people ', not ' guns ' or ' cars ' or any ' tool '. The other side.. They would rather just take more away from ' we the people '. By definition, its Tyranny or Oppression, something nobody deserves.

[Rockpup]

Megan: I suspect most people did not expect the govt to turn on them till the media figured out it was more profitable to polarize issues to such an extent that we are at now. Sidebar: When people in the USA commit suicide at a national landmark the media keeps it -very- quiet to keep people from being copycats. Yet when there are mass shootings the media is all over it, giving the shooter all sorts of publicity they would never have. Yet, the media is not willing to accept any blame as they claim it is just simple journalism. er.. no.

[ilikekicks]

Actually, I think that's a rather rude response to Dr Shoe's reasonable question. You could have said for sport, lest my government turn on me, because I get joy out of hitting a target, because that's how I get my meat... I normally find when someone says 'No offence' they're about to offend me (or at least try to).

Megan..

Theres a HUGE difference in people from different areas of the world. There is an absolute difference in thinking and values. EVERYONE wishes to believe they are better then the next lot when in actuality, none are better or worse. Just different.

In *my* time. In our educational institutions, we were taught of our Nations founding. We used to know WHY, HOW and WHEN these events took place.

Maybe Dr. Shoe didnt learn of the American Revolution. Im being serious in saying such as kids in the US schools right now arent even being taught such! They are being told that a bunch of people tossed some tea into a big lake and told the British to leave. Thats about the extent of what they are taught.

They arent taught that the redcoats took quarters to the peoples homes, took their women at leisure in some instances and demanded tribute from local stores. They arent taught of the pillaging. Its taught that the Revolutionary War was just standing up to the East Indies Company and some forms of Taxation, nothing more. History has been ' Corrected ' to reflect a much nicer picture when it reality, it was a brutal and oppressive time for everyone involved.

Students arent taught of the Indemnity Act of 1767. They arent taught of the Townshend taxes in 1770. The real picture isnt given to them.

I dont know of what they Teach in the UK in regards to the Yankees telling your crown ' where to go ' but I dont think they paint the Crown as being Oppressive or as the ' bad guys '. Why should I expect Dr. Shoe to know the details when the kids here arent? It would be very unfair to speculate she knows of such things without asking first.

I wont respond critically in regards to hoverflys words. People whom understand what liberty is, where it comes from and how it exists have a VERY different view then everyone else. It is a form of ' Reality ' and we question it each and every day. If we dont, we WILL loose out liberties.

Those whom founded the Nation I live in, one I have defended and will continue to defend, were very wise in their ways. They knew what was awaiting their future for tossing the Crown of England aside.

This is a bit ' off topic ' but NEEDS to be mentioned. http://www.keelynet.com/4th99.htm

"We didn't just fight the British. We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government!"

Whos to say US citizens might not be fighting its own government at some point? The founders of my Nation knew such COULD happen, thus why the people should be allowed to hold Arms.

A wise individual once stated :

"There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order."

Megan: I suspect most people did not expect the govt to turn on them till the media figured out it was more profitable to polarize issues to such an extent that we are at now.

Sidebar: When people in the USA commit suicide at a national landmark the media keeps it -very- quiet to keep people from being copycats. Yet when there are mass shootings the media is all over it, giving the shooter all sorts of publicity they would never have. Yet, the media is not willing to accept any blame as they claim it is just simple journalism.

er.. no.

There are no real ' Journalists ' left. There are Opinion Columnists whom have an agenda to sell.

You are very correct in stating how promoting these events ( Not reporting, PROMOTING ) brings even more of them.

What I do, in my own way, is to not even mention a name. I know what their names are ( the criminals and people whom have done these things ) . I dont degrade them, use their names.. I dont even get into the acts they have performed. They are worth forgetting about and so long as they are used as examples, more people will follow them and continue their work.

I am starting to wonder if a gun ban will turn out to work as well as our alcohol ban did.

Or the Weed/pot ban? Or Gambeling? Or Immigration? Or Prostitution..

[hoverfly]

As soon as the Newtown shooting happened I bought 14 Glock 22 High cap mags w/22 rounds each. After making more room on my credit card to buy some more Glock 15 round mags a week later everyone was wiped out! Any way I am selling 5 of them to pay for keeping nine and I increased the price 2.5 times higher than the original price. Let’s put it this way, people are going to making lots of money after the ban and everyone will still have high cap mags, you just have to pay more.

Does anyone want a Glock .40 high cap mag? Sell it at a discount if you mention that you are a heeler.

Megan: I suspect most people did not expect the govt to turn on them till the media figured out it was more profitable to polarize issues to such an extent that we are at now.

Sidebar: When people in the USA commit suicide at a national landmark the media keeps it -very- quiet to keep people from being copycats. Yet when there are mass shootings the media is all over it, giving the shooter all sorts of publicity they would never have. Yet, the media is not willing to accept any blame as they claim it is just simple journalism.

er.. no.

If you pay careful attention to the media you can see how unreal they are. You can't take them serously any more, you have to go out of the way to weed out the truth.

[Rockpup]

Hoverfly: Got plenty from the previous hi cap ban. Even have a 10mm G20 15 round mag. Might have to try a 10mm barrel for my 21sf and see how well the 175gr silvertips work out. Dr Shoe: I do hear, and understand the "we've progressed past the need" argument, although the same could be said for horses. We have cars and other machines, no need to keep these animals penned up. I personally would not want a horse, so why would anyone want a horse? This is a rhetorical statement, I am trying to state that just because some people dislike something does not mean others do not enjoy it.

[Bubba136]

Not everyone wants to own a gun. As I said in a previous comment, the discussion is really all about being able to own one if a citizen wants to buy one, as is their legal right as established in the second amendment to our country's constitution. Perhaps in might help someone to more fully understand if they knew that "our" revolt against King George III began with his sending his army into Bosten to try to confiscate weapons from the colonists as a means of preventing open-rebellion against the throne. Weapons that were hidden when news of the British Army's arrival in the city was spread during "The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere" and others that rode that night, spreading the word that "the British were comming" so the weapons could be hidden. The right of citizens to "keep and bear arms," as a means of the citizens ability to protect against Government imposed tyranny, was so important that the authors of our constitution placed it second, only after the first amendment that guarantees freedom of speech, of religion, of the press, amongst other important freedoms.

[meganiwish]

Not everyone wants to own a gun. As I said in a previous comment, the discussion is really all about being able to own one if a citizen wants to buy one, as is their legal right as established in the second amendment to our country's constitution.

Perhaps in might help someone to more fully understand if they knew that "our" revolt against King George III began with his sending his army into Bosten to try to confiscate weapons from the colonists as a means of preventing open-rebellion against the throne. Weapons that were hidden when news of the British Army's arrival in the city was spread during "The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere" and others that rode that night, spreading the word that "the British were comming" so the weapons could be hidden.

The right of citizens to "keep and bear arms," as a means of the citizens ability to protect against Government imposed tyranny, was so important that the authors of our constitution placed it second, only after the first amendment that guarantees freedom of speech, of religion, of the press, amongst other important freedoms.

Thank you, Bubba, what an eloquent explanation. Lots of Brits, and I'm sure the same is true amongst our colonial brethren, are unaware of how different our cultures are.

ILK, I wish I'd multiquoted, but I'm just too stupid. But you're so right. I taught Year 3, which is something like your Third Grade.In History you had to teach so that they could answer a question. For the Second World War it was, 'What was life like for children in the Second World War?' Well, inevitably it was about evacuees from the city going to the country. I many times pointed out that the experience was very different if you were a (jewish) child in Amsterdam, but they said they were too young for that. So I had to teach that the war was a kind of holiday. I know people who were evacuees, and it was a good time of their lives, for a lot of them, but it wasn't the whole truth. Learn History, because the chaps at the top will do it to you again if they feel they need to. Our American brethren know that, but I'm surprised they've let it get so far.

Part of it ( IMO ) is the demonizing of others. In my nation right now, its a very divided culture. Its to the point where I have often wondered if I should let someone lay there and bleed out rather then help them and worry about being sued for it later.

Oh gosh, sorry, I'm sure you can work out why I was looking at this post again. But I was walking home one night, years ago and I came across a chapp in an alley lying there. It was a freezing night, and he'd have died if he stayed there. I got him in a cab, but he told me five people had stepped over him. I don't know that he could count, so we'll take five to mean some. Either of my children could be in need of help. I'd be so sad to know that they wouldn't get it.

[SF]

an armed society is a polite society.....

[jmc]

In the interest of peace and harmony, I am locking this thread. We are an international forum, some of our members come from societies that do not allow personal ownership of firearms while others come from societies where firearm ownership is allowed. This is a topic that is never going to be settled and from previous experience, this discussion will escalate, get out-of-hand and cause strife.