Reactions In Different Countries

[Pumps]

Reading Kneehighs' enthusiasm over the Swedish made me wonder why there are different reactions to freestyling in various places. On the surface it would be easy to conclude that the level of acceptance vary, but I have a feeling it has more to do with how outgoing the populations is and how normal it is for a people to react in public. This would explain why I've had so bad experience in London. Londoners interact more in public, saying "excuse me" and "Sorry" all of the time and if you step on people toes, like cutting in line or stand to the left on an escalator, you WILL get a comment, which is not likely in Denmark or Sweden. I've even worn a skirt in Italy and their reaction certainly supports my theory, being known are one of the most outgoing people. They certainly DID react. In the nordic countries danes have a reputation as being open and outgoing, even called the "scandinavian italians" but I'm not sure thats the case, as people from Scania is much more outgoing and friendly, so in my opinion they would deserve that title. It also explains why I have noticed a difference after moving back to the inhibited danes and it also explains why Kneehighs's experience of Swedish girls are so different than mine, as Stockholm is like a different country from Scania.

[HappyinHeels]

Haven't yet been to Scandanavia but heard it is a fairly laid-back atmosphere. I think several places fit that description like some of the SE Asia countries, some of the South American and other European nations as well as select areas of the USA and Canada. NZ and Australia might also fit this mold I just don't know. So far have only worn heels publicly in USA, Canada, and Brasil. HappyinHeels

[kneehighs]

This is an interesting topic in my opinion.

My personal feeling is what makes women attracted to men are socially constructed stereotypes of masculinity, which involve deeply embedded symbols of masculinity like:

1. health

2. wealth

3. status

4. ability to protect.

However, when a woman learns that she can provide the above traits for herself without a man, she is more open to men in heels as a result. In my experiences, this is why girls that are economically self-sufficient are more open to the idea, because the "wealth" attraction trigger is already satisfied independent of a man. Therefore, some countries with good health care, like Benno's post alluded to, will have women that are more open to men in heels because that satisfies the "health" attraction trigger independent of a man.

My argument is that it's not so much the country that's the cause as it is the specific attraction triggers being satisfied independent of a man.

Just my opinion.

[Alix]

I think 'Health' is really more 'self actualization' than just physical well being... confidence is probably a huge factor

[Pumps]

This is an interesting topic in my opinion.

My personal feeling is what makes women attracted to men are socially constructed stereotypes of masculinity, which involve deeply embedded symbols of masculinity like:

1. health

2. wealth

3. status

4. ability to protect.

However, when a woman learns that she can provide the above traits for herself without a man, she is more open to men in heels as a result. In my experiences, this is why girls that are economically self-sufficient are more open to the idea, because the "wealth" attraction trigger is already satisfied independent of a man. Therefore, some countries with good health care, like Benno's post alluded to, will have women that are more open to men in heels because that satisfies the "health" attraction trigger independent of a man.

My argument is that it's not so much the country that's the cause as it is the specific attraction triggers being satisfied independent of a man.

Just my opinion.

I must say I expereince just the opposite. The more successful and independent a woman becomes the more masculine and strong she wants her partner. Which would explain why a growing number of careerwomen give up finding a partner and ends up having kids by donor.

[kneehighs]

I think 'Health' is really more 'self actualization' than just physical well being... confidence is probably a huge factor

Not in this case--the case of heterosexual female attraction triggers towards males. Health literally refers to the physical well being and the potential for the suitor to pass on genes that maximize offspring survival value. Women stereotypically respond to survival value, men to replication value (looks), which in the context of the original post, are independent of Country.

I must say I experience just the opposite. The more successful and independent a woman becomes the more masculine and strong she wants her partner. Which would explain why a growing number of careerwomen give up finding a partner and ends up having kids by donor.

I don't know what to say save for the quote by Baruch Spinoza, "No matter how thin you slice it, there will always be two sides"

Edited August 8, 2012 by kneehighs

[SleekHeels]

when a woman learns that she can provide the above traits for herself without a man, she is more open to men in heels as a result.

I can see that working in different ways (echoing the Spinoza quote). On the one hand a successful and empowered woman may see heels as disempowering men and weakening them as competitors (while her own heels remain a sign of feminine empowerment). On the other hand successful women may find that regular male egos are threatened/intimidated by their success whereas guys in heels are likely to be far less resentful of her achievements and more open-minded to feminine success.

However it does also go beyond the direct relationship between a woman and a man. In a wider social context, for a successful woman a guy in heels may or may not be such a good status symbol, and that depends on cultural values and the balance of conventional/alternative thinking.

Edited August 9, 2012 by SleekHeels

[quidam]

The more successful and independent a woman becomes the more masculine and strong she wants her partner.

Which may also explain why successful, gourgeous women end up with a brute idiot without any class, studies, or money, who looks like a caveman.

[kneehighs]

I must say I expereince just the opposite. The more successful and independent a woman becomes the more masculine and strong she wants her partner. Which would explain why a growing number of careerwomen give up finding a partner and ends up having kids by donor.

In either case, what you believe creates your reality. Change what you believe, change what is possible. For years, man believed he couldn't run the four minute mile. Wind resistance was too great. Leg span was too short. Then Roger Bannister believed he could do it and ran the four minute mile for the first time in history. So what you believe on the inside gets mirrored back to you on the outside. The point is beliefs are choices and can be made to order. I choose to believe that women like men in heels and reap the rewards of that belief. You choose to believe that women who are successful don't like men in heels and thus, reap the rewards of that belief accordingly.

I can see that working in different ways (echoing the Spinoza quote). On the one hand a successful and empowered woman may see heels as disempowering men and weakening them as competitors (while her own heels remain a sign of feminine empowerment). On the other hand successful women may find that regular male egos are threatened/intimidated by their success whereas guys in heels are likely to be far less resentful of her achievements and more open-minded to feminine success.

However it does also go beyond the direct relationship between a woman and a man. In a wider social context, for a successful woman a guy in heels may or may not be such a good status symbol, and that depends on cultural values and the balance of conventional/alternative thinking.

I think because economically independent women have overcome classic socially constructed gender stereotypes of women being economically subordinate to men, that sometimes these economically independent women are also open to subverting socially constructed stereotypes that apply to classic masculine dress codes for men.

[benno]

KH the last paragraph of your last post is brilliant! Thanks.

[kneehighs]

KH the last paragraph of your last post is brilliant! Thanks.

Thanks. I'm glad that made sense to you.

I could've said something similary by just saying, "women who overcome gender stereotypes for themselves are more likely to overcome gender stereotypes for men"

[FreshinHeels]

Thanks. I'm glad that made sense to you.

I could've said something similary by just saying, "women who overcome gender stereotypes for themselves are more likely to overcome gender stereotypes for men"

Does that mean we have a bigger change with a woman boxers?

[SleekHeels]

I think because economically independent women have overcome classic socially constructed gender stereotypes of women being economically subordinate to men, that sometimes these economically independent women are also open to subverting socially constructed stereotypes that apply to classic masculine dress codes for men.

I agree, brilliantly expressed. But I'm stil inclined to believe that the subverting does tend to occur either as men in heels being disempowered/weakened, or as men in heels empowering femininity by making it an aspirational and positive quality. I sometimes feel like the latter is just wishful thinking, but it's what I aspire too so I try to present myself that way in my heels. Also it's not just about trying to attract a successful woman - I would be delighted at the thought that someone saw me and though "hey, if he can think outside the box then so can I?" and inspire them towards greater confidence and self-belief. I wouldn't be so arrogant to presume that I've ever had that effect, but I know that others have had that inspirational effect on me.

Edited August 10, 2012 by SleekHeels

[kneehighs]

I agree, brilliantly expressed. But I'm stil inclined to believe that the subverting does tend to occur either as men in heels being disempowered/weakened, or as men in heels empowering femininity by making it an aspirational and positive quality. I sometimes feel like the latter is just wishful thinking, but it's what I aspire too so I try to present myself that way in my heels. Also it's not just about trying to attract a successful woman - I would be delighted at the thought that someone saw me and though "hey, if he can think outside the box then so can I?" and inspire them towards greater confidence and self-belief. I wouldn't be so arrogant to presume that I've ever had that effect, but I know that others have had that inspirational effect on me.

Thanks. I never thought about creating a new association: wearing heels as a symbol of empowered femininity instead of the stereotypically vulnerable femininty we've been sociologically conditioned to. Now I have to see how to integrate that new aspirational quality into my current belief system.

Time to play!

[Steve63130]

KH, you could start a whole new forum and attract a zillion women to it (and charge a hefty fee!). Better go sign up for the domain www.Heelsasasymbolofempoweredfemininity.org right away! Let me know when you're rich! LOL Steve

[benno]

'You must be the change you want to see in the world.' Mahatma Gandhi Two of my other favourite quotes attached...

Edited August 10, 2012 by benno

[kneehighs]

'You must be the change you want to see in the world.' Mahatma Gandhi

Two of my other favourite quotes attached...

I passionately LOVE that Mandela quote, especially this part, "

We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?"

Edited August 10, 2012 by kneehighs

[Bubba136]

Yes, I agree and would also add the last sentence: "As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically lliberates others."

[Pumps]

I passionately LOVE that Mandela quote, especially this part, "

We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?"

Genetics

[kneehighs]

Genetics

What about genetics?

[SleekHeels]

Thanks. I never thought about creating a new association: wearing heels as a symbol of empowered femininity instead of the stereotypically vulnerable femininty we've been sociologically conditioned to. Now I have to see how to integrate that new aspirational quality into my current belief system.

I should probably clarify that when I say "men in heels empowering femininity by making it an aspirational and positive quality" I certainly don't mean to imply that women need men in heels to do that for them... for me it's just a personal expression that femininty should be valued and respected equally, not a battle of the sexes where each side feels threatened by the success of the other. I'm tired of men trying to keep women off their perch, and women trying to knock men off their perch, all so caught up in it we forget that we can fly.

[Gudulitooo]

I must say I expereince just the opposite. The more successful and independent a woman becomes the more masculine and strong she wants her partner. Which would explain why a growing number of careerwomen give up finding a partner and ends up having kids by donor.

When people have everything "vital", they find that living what other other experience as hard is a source of unlimited entertainment... How cruel

KH, to me all human "vital" needs fall in 3 categories : food, protection and entertainment. Other activities would be means, not needs.

Without food you can live a few days.

Without protection (clothes, shelter, heating, social relations, hygiene, treatments, etc.) you can live a few months

Without entertainment (relations, thoughts, games, etc.), you can live a few years.

Your 4 points ring more "urban" to me : health, wealth, status, ability to protect.

I think because economically independent women have overcome classic socially constructed gender stereotypes of women being economically subordinate to men, that sometimes these economically independent women are also open to subverting socially constructed stereotypes that apply to classic masculine dress codes for men.

(...)

I could've said something similary by just saying, "women who overcome gender stereotypes for themselves are more likely to overcome gender stereotypes for men"

[Hilarious] Self caricaturing ? [/Hilarious]

My 2 cents

Edited August 20, 2012 by Gudulitooo