My business attire last Friday

[marhil711]

Hello all, as suggested by Tech, I'm posting some full length shots of my business attire from last Friday. I was holding a basic training on certain products for some new colleagues. We were a group of 10 and I was showing some presentations in English, while translating the key points into German. I was wearing a female trouser suit, lilac blouse with glittery silver decorations and the 8 cm oxford pumps. Oh yeah, shoudn't forget my new lilac framed spectacles. The pictures are not that good as my only way for making pics is to photograph myself in a mirror. The problem is that I need to use the flash, so the upper part is outshone and hard to make out. At least I don't need to blur my face like that. I didn't wear the boots in pic no. 3, but I was soooo tempted. Anyway I didn't get any comment, nothing at all. Only one colleague cast a strange look my way after looking below the table I was sitting at. As I don't wear make up or any jewelry and I have very short hair (short as in "army cut"), I was "only" fem from the neck down. This is not the first time I went out in a similar attire, but it's the first time I made any pictures. Tech suggested wearing less baggy trousers, even some sharp pinstripe trousers. I don't know about that. Baggy trousers look better on me, being as corpulent as I am. Pinstripe trousers, on the other hand might really look better. I have another suit in pinstipe, maybe I try that next time. Cheers Markus

[Tech]

My first question would be, why on earth would you choose a female trouser suit, and why a blouse? From the pictures you have posted, it just looks like a BIG woman in a badly fitting baggy suit... The cut of a womens suit is completely different to a mens, as is the shape, and to pull off something like that, you truly would need shape (Not the outward bound kind either) Dont take this the wrong way, and I truly mean no offence, but if saw a woman dressed like that, I'd wonder if she got dressed in the dark and had a bang over the head the night before, or had "magic mirrors" in her house, but to see a guy dress like that, well, I'd just think.... actually, I dont know what I'd think, but it definately wouldnt be good.. I'm trying to be polite too, honestly I am... I'm not bashing you for doing your own thing, but its not a good look for a larger woman and looks kinda sad on a larger guy Given your shape, I'd ditch the stilettos, as others have previously said before, large person on top of a pin heel doesnt balance right visually.. The jacket looks far too small too and is cut totally wrong for your shape.. What exactly are your goals? What are you trying to emulate or look like? Are you trying to look like a woman or like a guy in womens shaped clothing? Be nice to hear others HONEST thoughts and hope they wont spoon feed the usual "Nice heels" empty comments that dont really help on occassions like this...

[marhil711]

My first question would be, why on earth would you choose a female trouser suit, and why a blouse?

From the pictures you have posted, it just looks like a BIG woman in a badly fitting baggy suit...

The cut of a womens suit is completely different to a mens, as is the shape, and to pull off something like that, you truly would need shape (Not the outward bound kind either)

Dont take this the wrong way, and I truly mean no offence, but if saw a woman dressed like that, I'd wonder if she got dressed in the dark and had a bang over the head the night before, or had "magic mirrors" in her house, but to see a guy dress like that, well, I'd just think.... actually, I dont know what I'd think, but it definately wouldnt be good..

I'm trying to be polite too, honestly I am... I'm not bashing you for doing your own thing, but its not a good look for a larger woman and looks kinda sad on a larger guy

Given your shape, I'd ditch the stilettos, as others have previously said before, large person on top of a pin heel doesnt balance right visually..

The jacket looks far too small too and is cut totally wrong for your shape..

What exactly are your goals?

What are you trying to emulate or look like?

Are you trying to look like a woman or like a guy in womens shaped clothing?

Be nice to hear others HONEST thoughts and hope they wont spoon feed the usual "Nice heels" empty comments that dont really help on occassions like this...

OK, I'm trying hard not to be offended.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted these pictures after all. I just knew what kind of reply I had to expect. Well, too late now.

I wonder how you can tell that the jacket is too small? I just left it open and holding the camera makes it fall back. It's definitely not too small.

Why the blouse and suit? Yes, I'm trying hard to look more fem, somewhere in between, as I can never really pull it off as Dr. Shoe can, for example. Moreover, female suits are 1/4 of the price of a mans suit. Strange, isn't it?

Sure the fit on the hips is not good, as I (naturally) don't have hips like that. And the chest surely is a little wide, again I'm missing the natural "assets" for that. But to me it just feels better. Simple as that.

Tech, I have never seen any pictures of you here on the forum, so naturally, I have no idea how you might look like figure wise. But assuming from certain snippets that you left here and there on the forum, I gather that you are normal shaped man who just likes to wear heels. If you have never been any fat as me, you probably have no idea what it's like. Baggy clothes no matter what kind tend to blur the shape and make it more, in want of better word, acceptable.

As for the pin heels, Ok, point taken. On a 2nd thought I guess you are right and a more block type would look better. It's just that I love the feeling of walking on pin heels.

I guess that was the first and last time that I will post pictures of me.

[Dr. Shoe]

Firstly I would say that if you're happy to dress like that and feel comfortable in those clothes then why not? The thing is, you have made it clear that you are not trying to emulate a woman nor are you trying to dress like a traditional male. In other words you are starting with a completely blank canvas and doing your own thing- and kudos to you for that. Secondly, Tech is just expressing his own personal opinion and you shouldn't take it to heart as there are plenty on here who will respect and admire you for the barriers you are working to break down. Having said that, there are certain clothes that work for a given shape and others that don't. If you want to be classy in your appearance in a femme way then you should look at what larger ladies are wearing and if you want to be classy in a male way then look at what larger guys are wearing. You will soon learn to mix and match. Oh, BTW, I sometimes get it wrong too!

[Tom-NL]

My first question would be, why on earth would you choose a female trouser suit, and why a blouse?

From the pictures you have posted, it just looks like a BIG woman in a badly fitting baggy suit...

The cut of a womens suit is completely different to a mens, as is the shape, and to pull off something like that, you truly would need shape (Not the outward bound kind either)

Dont take this the wrong way, and I truly mean no offence, but if saw a woman dressed like that, I'd wonder if she got dressed in the dark and had a bang over the head the night before, or had "magic mirrors" in her house, but to see a guy dress like that, well, I'd just think.... actually, I dont know what I'd think, but it definately wouldnt be good..

I'm trying to be polite too, honestly I am... I'm not bashing you for doing your own thing, but its not a good look for a larger woman and looks kinda sad on a larger guy

Given your shape, I'd ditch the stilettos, as others have previously said before, large person on top of a pin heel doesnt balance right visually..

The jacket looks far too small too and is cut totally wrong for your shape..

What exactly are your goals?

What are you trying to emulate or look like?

Are you trying to look like a woman or like a guy in womens shaped clothing?

Be nice to hear others HONEST thoughts and hope they wont spoon feed the usual "Nice heels" empty comments that dont really help on occassions like this...

(bold emphasis in the quoted text is added by me)

Ahem. I think you have an unusual way of expressing yourself, if the above is meant to be an example of you being "polite".

The way you express yourself does not sound to me like somebody trying to give a personal opinion (like in "I think this and that" or "I believe this or that would work better"), but as somebody who is expressing himself in absolute truths that can not be disputed (like: "this looks crap"). There are different ways to say the same things, and personally I feel that you could have expressed yourself better.

[marhil711]

Secondly, Tech is just expressing his own personal opinion and you shouldn't take it to heart as there are plenty on here who will respect and admire you for the barriers you are working to break down.

(bold emphasis in the quoted text is added by me)

Ahem. I think you have an unusual way of expressing yourself, if the above is meant to be an example of you being "polite".

The way you express yourself does not sound to me like somebody trying to give a personal opinion (like in "I think this and that" or "I believe this or that would work better"), but as somebody who is expressing himself in absolute truths that can not be disputed (like: "this looks crap"). There are different ways to say the same things, and personally I feel that you could have expressed yourself better.

This time I hope Tech isn't taking offense in this. Reviewing Techs recent post I can't help but feeling that he's in a bad mood lately. I have never seen him bickering so much before. In the past I didn't write much, but surely I was reading on HHplace at least every other day.

Afterall, this is his forum and he's got to keep this place and his other projects running. But he surely was more polite before.

Let's hope he takes some time to think about his recent attitude and hopefully change it back to the one he had before.

[sscotty727]

My opinion is you get only 1 chance to live in this world before you pass on to hopefully another one. Not only do you get only 1 chance, it is a relatively short one. Therefore, you need to do what YOU need to do to be happy and comfortable, as long as you aren't hurting someone else. If you are comfortable and happy in your own skin and the clothes you wear, then good for you. Not everyone is going to like what you wear or how you look, so you will need to get a "thick skin" (mentally). Personally, while I wear discrete heels and stick to "man" clothes; I can also appreciate those who wish to be more adventurous. After all, we aren't dating; we are friends on a support site where we shouldn't be throwing around judgments. As was said, it is appropriate to say, "I don't like that outfit personally, but if you like it then good for you" vs "you look like crap in it".

[Tech]

This time I hope Tech isn't taking offense in this. Reviewing Techs recent post I can't help but feeling that he's in a bad mood lately. I have never seen him bickering so much before. In the past I didn't write much, but surely I was reading on HHplace at least every other day.

Afterall, this is his forum and he's got to keep this place and his other projects running. But he surely was more polite before.

Let's hope he takes some time to think about his recent attitude and hopefully change it back to the one he had before.

Not at all, I'm not in any bad mood. Just seems to me that all too often people chime in with less than helpful comments like "If your happy with it then do it" which is as useful as saying nothing, or people say "love the shoes" which really doesnt say anything about the whole look, which is what the poster is clearly showing us for...

If he wants to dress feminine then I couldnt care less, I was kind of trying to say that his outfit simply looks somewhat out of balance with his shape.

I'm the last person in the world for being "diplomatic" and most people here already know this, and those who know me personally, know this extremely well.

This topic here is not "how I express my thoughts" but the OP's business attire :-)

Oh, and this is NOT "MY" website, its "our" website and I think you will find I follow the same rules everybody else..

[Bubba136]

What is the old saying? "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Some people. when they see something they believe is not pleasant to their eye, "tell it like they see it." Others, looking at the same thing and while really not liking it either, will soften their criticism by being less blunt. Criticizing what their looking at while not making anyone uncomfortable. Quite frankly, even though I do agree that you look kinda out of balance, if your comfortable dressed that way, go about your business with confidence and pride. Keep in mind what my old dad used to tell me when I wanted to charge off and do what I wanted to do......"if your shoulders are broad enough to do the deed, they must be broad enough to accept the consequences." And in this case, accept the slings and arrows of those who surround you with grace and style.

[marhil711]

I've thought long about making another reply. But I think it will be best to make truce and let the matter rest. We are all people and have the right to make up our own mind. Tech, you have your point of view and I have mine, let's leave it like that. So, no offense (hope that makes sense in English, in German we would say: Nichts für ungut). Markus

[Tech]

I've thought long about making another reply. But I think it will be best to make truce and let the matter rest. We are all people and have the right to make up our own mind. Tech, you have your point of view and I have mine, let's leave it like that. So, no offense (hope that makes sense in English, in German we would say: Nichts für ungut).

Markus

A truce for what? There isnt any fighting, so why the need for a truce?

You post pictures in search of feedback, and like a lot of others here it seems, if that feedback isnt bursting with praise then people get offended and take it as some sort of attack! lol

I'd like to think that if I turned up at a friends house one day and looked like a prat, that he would tell me quick and not just ignore it.

Nobody is having a go a "you" as I dont know you, so cant comment on that, all we can comment on is what we can see.

Whats your aim in terms of life/relationships?

Your single at the moment right?

Where exactly are you going with this form of fashion?

[Danielinheels]

If you're using a compact digital camera, check and see if there's a "HIGH ISO" setting. If there is, use that and no flash, with light directed away from the mirror, and your pictures will come out fine (it's how I take mine, and you can see examples in the Leggings thread). If there isn't, you'll have to see if there's a way to adjust it manually - the higher the ISO setting, the lower the light in the room can be while still getting an acceptable picture. Hope this helps for your photos; as for the outfit itself, I can't see enough of it to make an honest critique, so I will defer that to others who feel that they can see adequately enough.

[yozz]

I guess that was the first and last time that I will post pictures of me.

Don't get discouraged that easily.

Making good pictures of yourself requires a lot of practice.

But at the same time the practicing is a lot of fun.

Best is to put the camera on a stand and use a time release.

Then you put yourself in front and try to look your best.

Next comes the hard part: put the picture in your computer and

have a very critical look. Remember that people will not see what you feel.

They only see the picture. Hence look at the picture as if it is someone else.

Then you will start seeing that this isn't straight, that has wrinkles, the

heels are not very visible while actually you wanted to show them,

your hands are in a stupid position, etc.

Hence you have to walk back (on your heels) and do it again.

many times. It may take 50 pictures before you gat one that passes.

But it keeps you busy with your hobby. Hence it should be fun.

Then, when you post a picture, remember this: if people only say

"how nice" that may be flattering, but that doesn't really help. If there

is criticism, you can improve. And people here are very friendly. They

do offer good advice. Think about it and take what you think suits

your taste.

And don't worry about the style of Tech. Sometimes it can be very funny

as well (look in the part where people look for contacts).

Y.

[sendra45]

I think there are a few things to consider here, Firstly, well done for doing something you wanted to do and thanks for telling us about it. Secondly, I think the main problem here is the detail available in the picture you posted, take the tips from here and practice taking shots of yourself in the mirror, its not like we have to pay for developing nowadays. Thirdly, go out with the guys in the evening wearing the same clothes, this will be the litmus test for you, if you look good in it and it suits you, after a few beers the guys will tell you, on the other hand, if you don't look that sharp and it does not suit you, you will find out, I doubt anybody will be rude though, but they might tell you what they think. Good luck with your next appearance like this albeit perhaps finely tuned?

[Tech]

What I dont get is, you can go out and about in public like this, yet 1 person is not full of praise for it and your running for cover.... I would then seriously have to question if your truly even comfortable dressing like that yourself, and are you happy with it, because if you were, you wouldnt be getting upset and behaving like somebody had just insulted you. Your going to need much thicker skin if you want to do anything in life that is a little different than the norm I'm afraid...

[Dr. Shoe]

Indeed. You could be the most stylish person in the world and someone will still laugh at you...

[partyshoes]

You could be the most stylish person in the world and someone will still laugh at you...

Hear hear .. aint that the truth!

[ShockQueen]

Indeed.

You could be the most stylish person in the world and someone will still laugh at you...

I agree entirely with the good Doctor here. I've had many good compliments from colleagues and friends, and there will still be those that leer, look, and laugh. It's up to them how they want to live their lives......and up to us how we live ours! It's not hurting anything, so let them be befuddled by how we can live a better life than they will.

[Tech]

and your point is..........? I'm just blunt and to the point thats all, I dont feel the need to "handle with kid gloves" everybodies feelings, or emotions, your all adults and old enough to hear answers to your questions.. So now your all turning this into how other people post replies? Sure, I know I'm far from diplomatic, but I'm not being offensive, I'm not dispensing insults or making thing up, and I'm sure we could all cast comments on how everybody posts replies if we wanted to spend all day analysing each other Is my way un-usual simply because I say what I think and actually speak my mind? Shame more people arnt like that. Guys dress how they like, then some comment on how people laugh at them, well, its not surprising given how some of them dress themselves, yet other people here dance around those things and come out with those tiny comments like "nice boots", well sure, those boots might be nice, but they just dont want to say anything else because there isnt anything else nice to say in most cases, co-ordination and dress sense still has a long way to come in the mens department, and with so many getting it so wrong when trying the variety on the other side of the store, its no wonder the mens department has such limited choices... A lot of guys dont have a clue what to do with any of it.. Before you all "go-off-on-one" Thats not an insult either, its just an observation based on my own opinions of what I have seen here..

[Tech]

That is not a socially calibrated response you would hope for from a forum leader/owner.

When are people going to quit with these "Expectations of a forum owner/leader"???? Just because I happen to look after the website, and, like others, do some of the moderating, does that mean I'm not allowed to have my own opinion or express things in my own way?

I have to suddenly conform to some un-written code that doesnt exist?

Garbage, I'm free to express myself and say what I think within the confines of our community rules as much as any member here...

This is a social community, not a general election....

I look after a website, not government funds, sadly, otherwise we might be in far better financial shape

To me, if somebody looks bad, I'm not the kind of person who will pick out 1 single item that might look nice on its own, in its packaging, like saying "Nice watch" or "cool boots", thats just not me....

Oh, and those "exaggerations" where not put in bold or brackets by me, for anybody wondering who hasnt read the original post, nor did I post them as any form of "exaggerations" either, that has been claimed by others, thus introducing things that havent been said, I havent exaggerated anything.

You can say "big woman" and thats NOT an exaggeration, the correct way to exaggerate it is "Really big woman", for those who dont know that.

The rest of it that has been bolded and enclosed in brackets are either jokes, attempts at some humour or just sayings, but clearly some people are taking things wayyyyyyy to seriously...

See, THAT was an exaggeration :-)

[Bubba136]

Ah my, let's cut all of this out. Granted the guy did look didn't look all that good. While most of the time most of us would find a way of registering our impression of how he looked less harshly (or bluntly) the fact remains that if someone doesn't eventually tell him that he could take more care in selection his attire and taking care to present a more coordinated appearance, it's not all bad that someone had the courage to point out the obvious defects in his appearance. Kneehighs is right in that criticism of his appearance could have been oriented more toward how he could improve his appearance rather than how badly he appeared. As for Tech's sake, his opinion is valid with or without the bracketed comments. (As for me, I am still wondering what kind of business he is in where he dresses like that for "normal business?" ) So, lets agree to end this right here. Opinions, expressed well or not, are still opinions. Like it was said in an earlier post: We're all adults here and if someone takes offense at blunt, real world, criticism, well then perhaps it's time for them to take a real good look at how they look to others, to see what all the fuss is about.

[jojo]

[quote name='I have to suddenly conform to some un-written code that doesnt exist?

Garbage, I'm free to express myself and say what I think within the confines of our community rules as much as any member here...']

Of course you are free to express yourself Tech, you have on several occasions. But politeness costs nothing and criticism in such a manner is usually well received. Being "blunt" just gets peoples backs up....hence this thread moving well off topic.

[Tech]

The bottom line is this, the reality of communication is the response that you get. Somehow Tech conveniently managed to ignore this point I made.

Tech, you have a pattern (over years) of getting a non-constructive response that hurts people's feelings, offends others, or is just interpreted as rude.

You can compromise as little or as much as you want, I don't really care because I'm not your personal communications consultant...I never asked you to change or compromise who "you are" did I?

I just pointed out that to me, you come across as socially uncalibrated when you have to go back (over years) and justify/defend your words or explain yourself constantly.

It's just a simple little observation, that's all, not a huge mountain to be made between anyone.

I didnt manage to "conveniently ignore it", I was deliberately ignoring it completely because I have no idea why your speaking in that "la-dee-da" language. Speak proper English, say what YOU mean, dont spit out the kind of phrases made up by somebody else...

As for being constructive, you may see it as non-constructive, but I see it as "Let me tell you what I see isnt right, then you can go figure it out" rather than having to hand hold and tell people what they should try, let others work it out for themselves, they are meant to enjoy it, not be told what to do. I'm aware that blunt does get peoples backs up, especially if they are under the age of 20, possibly even 25 if they mature slowly, but adults really should be a little more grown up and not so fragile.

Socially uncalibrated?

Again, say what YOU mean, not speak in riddles... If you mean what I think you mean, then this pretty much applies to everybody on this website doesnt it?

Not being "calibrated" with the rest of society or conforming to what is expected...

[ShoeDre]

Sigh! I must admit I'm finding all this bickering is getting tiring. I don't agree with Tech's way of going about this, but I do understand his point. He, like the rest of us, has a belief in the way he should act. If you don't like it, that's fine. Personally I don't like it, but I accept that that is his way and that I should not deny other's of their voice. What I'm getting far more sick of is the constant arguments. If you disagree and can add to the discussion, say your bit, then leave it alone. If you have nothing new to add, perhaps saying nothing is better. I think we should try to avoid ongoing arguments that are achieving naught. So... Can we now return to the original point of this thread?

[Puffer]

When are people going to quit with these "Expectations of a forum owner/leader"???? Just because I happen to look after the website, and, like others, do some of the moderating, does that mean I'm not allowed to have my own opinion or express things in my own way?

I have to suddenly conform to some un-written code that doesnt exist?

Garbage, I'm free to express myself and say what I think within the confines of our community rules as much as any member here...

... I have no idea why your speaking in that "la-dee-da" language. Speak proper English, say what YOU mean, dont spit out the kind of phrases made up by somebody else...

I hesitate to add to this but a little more plain speaking is in order (which Tech is, of course, mature enough to recognise as constructively meant and will take at face value):

1. Blunt 'as I see it' comment and opinion is fine but it can be misunderstood, particularly if not clearly expressed. Sorry, Tech, but I don't think that you are in much of a position to tell a member (particularly one who is demonstrably literate) to 'speak proper English' when your own postings are often clouded by poor construction, punctuation and spelling that does not do justice to what may well be a good message.

2. You do of course have every right to participate fully here, quite independently of your status as 'owner/manager'. But I do wonder whether any ordinary member expressing himself as forcefully as you sometimes do will so readily escape censure, editing or thread closure? That has happened. If anything, proprietorship involves an obligation to conform to a higher standard than the 'common herd' (as every UK MP has recently had cause to realise).

3. You may have a thick skin, but that is something found on very few people - and I doubt that you are truly one of them. A few moments of thought before composing and delivering your broadside (however justified and heartfelt it might be) will pay dividends.

And, in case anyone wonders, (a) Tech is not the only member who imho might ponder on the above; ( I am not myself incapable of fault, here or elsewhere, but I did consider point 3 above before posting this.

[Bootking]

It is my OPINION that everyone here on this forum is entitled to their own opinion and each is free to express it.

However, the one thing that Tech clearly lacks is common courtesy. There is no reason to directly attack people, humiliate them or denigrate them. My issue with him is that the nastiness is just not necessary!

His opinions disliking the photo(s) could be simply expressed in a civilized, decent manner without the insults.

Thank you Puffer and kneehighs for your opinions!

[ShockQueen]

I'm going to respond to the original posting, and not comment on anything that has happened since. To me, I don't really see much wrong with this outfit, other than the slacks are just a little too short in my opinion. I just think that the leg should fall down to a certain length on professional slacks. The color is good, and the accent color of the top works well. Would thicker, or shorter heels look better? It's hard to say without seeing some different ones you have, as that may change the overall image. Color-wise, it works. I'm sorry, but I just can't find much wrong with it. If you are confident enough to do that look with short hair and no makeup, then hey........that's good enough for me. If you weren't confident in how you looked, I don't think you would have done it. I'd say keep working with it, and keep experimenting. Not everyone is a slim model figure - there are those of us who fit into the "plus-size" category (myself included), so we just have to see what works for us. That's just my opinion. I won't debate it or fight about it. It is what it is. Thanx!

[Tech]

It is my OPINION that everyone here on this forum is entitled to their own opinion and each is free to express it.

However, the one thing that Tech clearly lacks is common courtesy. There is no reason to directly attack people, humiliate them or denigrate them. My issue with him is that the nastiness is just not necessary!

His opinions disliking the photo(s) could be simply expressed in a civilized, decent manner without the insults.

Thank you Puffer and kneehighs for your opinions!

I havent "attacked/humiliated or denigrated anybody, nor have I used any "nastiness" so stop bringing things into this that were never said.

Once again I'm being mis-quoted on things i havent even written, and the "tongue-in-cheek" comments I made are being taken far too seriously.

Does nobody have any spine or sense of humour anymore these days?

Is EVERYTHING that isnt a positive comment "an attack"?

I'm going to close this thread because clearly its not going anywhere good.

Thanks for totally trashing this thread and continuing to stay off topic with negative ranting.