"Masculinity"

[BobHH]

An interesting article!

http://www.latimes.com/fashion/alltherage/la-ar-masculinity-fragile-20150923-htmlstory.html

[Chorlini]

Men are being ridiculed and told we are bad throughout Western society. And then they wonder about our masculinity? They reap what they sow. Where are our positive role models? In the media men are always portrayed as stupid little children. Women on the other hand are portrayed as wise. The wise wife and her stupid manchild husband. Violence against men is considered fun, a woman slapping a man in the face seems quite accepted, a comedy trope even.. A man slaps a woman in the face, spousal abuse. The media glorifies that more women then men attend university and that girls do better in school then boys. If it were the other way around it would be cause for widespread alarm and a clarion call to enact social reforms to rectify it.

 

I therefore am not surprised that it drives some men to cling to almost cavemen like notions of masculinity. After all, we see the same with many minorities who have been marginalized, clinging to what they think is their own culture is the one thing that gives them meaning and self identity in a hostile culture.

[Shyheels]

Consider also the difference in life expectancy between men and women and then imagine the furore if those positions were reversed. Men's life expectancy and male health statistcs are poorer than women's in every single category and across every single age group, from cradle to centenarians. They even defy socio-economic factors - a poor woman will have a better life expectancy and better health outlook than a rich man.

of course there is something else at work here. Women will take action on these matters, personal and collective, where we blokes do not. We do not make male health or longevity an issue. We do not speak out. It is the same with fashion styles of course - women wear what they want to wear no matter where it might be found in the shop, without fear or favour. Men do not.

we spend too much time looking over our shoulders and trying our damnedest to measure up to the stereotype...

 

[Chorlini]

I'm not sure if women in general take action on these matters. Sure, they have feminist groups, but there are feminists ranging from feminists in name only to militant man haters. But at least they have some groups working in their interests. We have none working in ours and any emerging group that tries gets tarnished as mysogist. It doesn't help that we men can't seem to agree on what constitutes good healthy masculinity. There has to be more then Schwartzenegger style action hero tough guys or a bitterly complaining Al 'what the hell happened to the world I live in' Bundy.

[robbiehhw]

Good article. Things are steadily changing for the positive. As a TG woman it is an interesting subject to me. A guy wanting to transition to a woman is at times treated like its treason to all mankind by those that feel somehow threatened. In my lifetime i have seen very little "man-hating" feminism. If you throw out the few outliers (Dworkin comes to mind), most feminism is concerned with equality or a fully level field of play. I don't get why men feel threatened probably because i do not have a very male mind, but i know it exists. 

Men/dads are definitely portrayed as buffoons in entertainment often. That is sad. Women are fast outpacing men in academics and i'm guessing part of that is due to the backlash that some young men feel as somehow education does not deliver the "toughness" that men want. As income equality widens as well, men are hurt by that. I read a study recently that indicated misogyny is more prevalent among poor men.  

If i was getting the new iPhone it would definitely be the rose gold. I just got a knew Android phone in June and its leather back is pink.

 

[maninpumps]

       First off Al Bundy ? This guy sat around with his hand in his pants and avoided his wife Peg (Katie Segal)  . Not much of a roll model for any creature . 

My hero was my father and all my ideas rise and fall in his standards . He always said equality between women and men will never be even due to the fact men are expected to be the provider of the family and women are to be the nurturer of the family .  That being stated men are going to have to accept women as equals and that means equal pay as well . Women have to accept men are going to be more feminine as gender rolls become more even and this means on a fashion level as well .  Men and women will have to get even on this equality all the way or it will never work and men will have to shed the Armour of masculinity and accept some emasculation as men take more famine traits . Think of this ..... a guy dresses in his heels and the woman gets the door for him and pays the bill at the restaurant . Reality , this will not happen because women still want the Knight in shining Armour to take them out on the town . I would love to have my wife take me out one night and let her take the lead ,my "Joan of Ark " if you will . Just my opinion . 

[Rob]

An interesting article!

http://www.latimes.com/fashion/alltherage/la-ar-masculinity-fragile-20150923-htmlstory.html

Good article.

This video is also along similar lines:  http://youtu.be/qK1GQRoto9E

[HappyinHeels]

Great points made by all. Men probably are their own worst advocate. They certainly are more violent and not as aware of her appearance and hygiene as most women tend to be. When presented with certain facts like decreased longevity or issues of perceived equality they tend not to get engaged socially to effect change rather just tend to drink it off as if the answer to any perceived ill were contained in a bottle of alcohol. On the other hand there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that women want equality but do also enjoy the man opening the door for them. What I have noticed in the last five years is women have indeed been winning the battle as there have more incidences of them behaving exactly like many men; swearing in public, fighting with fists, becoming the aggressor in situations where they were not before. Of course one probably will not read this in any mainstream media because it does not fit typical progressive orthodoxy. The point about the woman wearing anything from any part of the store is simply deemed a woman's fashion choice whereas a guy wearing heels is deemed a pervert. No wonder this world has problems. "Toughness" is not a product of one's birth sex rather it is the steely resolve forged by one's character in the face of adversity. The human being, man or woman, is at their absolute best when standing up to bullies and jerks that would demean others. Irrespective of how religious one may be that passage in the Bible about treatig others as you HAVE them treat you is a maxim that can be applied throughout life.  HappyinHeels 

[Histiletto]

Masculinity? Femininity? There are so many social documents, programs, opinions, and attitudes that have emerged from the way the theory of gender has been presented - we forget that the definitions were derived by some group or people rearranging lists of gathered information on human behaviors, mannerisms, social roles, and physical features of their time period to come up with their ideals for what they wanted men and women to be like and to portray. These ideals have changed through the annuals of time as mankind colonized and developed. For some examples of these changes: Women and children have been considered a man's property just like slaves, land, housing, crops, equipment, and livestock. Men's fashion of the well heeled, military elite, and nobility use to involve laces, ruffles, draping, decorative appliques, jewelry, perfumes, head dressings, and other plumages. The women of these wealthy men were eventually able to also spruce up their public appearance to match the status of their social class. With the industrial age, the wider distribution of wealth to the common people changed the dynamics of the family structure. Since men were working long hours, it became the responsibility of the women to look after and be in charge of the household budget. Many men were seen as less interested in wearing the frilly attire of former generations of the well-to-do, men's fashion began to exhibit attire that seemed more practical for their clothing usury. This also meant businesses were more prone to cater their wares to attract the women's patronage. This development alone helped to loosen the shackles of women being seen as men's property and promote their being equal partners as wives in the family chain. Hence, the gender ideals had to be revamped to accommodate the socially more dominate (masculine) feminine status women were attaining.

Have you ever wondered what inspired women to raise their hems and wear more form fitting attire?

[robbiehhw]

Truly interesting discussion and yes with liberation and equality comes changes for both genders and how we see gender. 

[mtnsofheels]

Hey BobHH, good article and thanks for posting it here. Certainly raises good points as many of you have done so as well.

Very good discussion, many factors can be added to that mix such as race, religion cultural background to make it even more out of balance. But I do feel there has been improvements for "gender bending" types like ourselves and that trend will continue. Women have been leading the way for change in the last hundred years so we have much to learn from them.

Looking forward to that change!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Heals4me]

I suppose that masculinity has played an extremely important role in the evolution of humanity.

But perhaps in modern society it's role has been lost. Actually I'd suggest that masculinity is the driver behind a lot of what's wrong in the world now.

Nothing bores me more than an Alpha Male strutting his stuff. Whether it's in sport,  in the workplace or out in the social scene.

It can't be my feminine side talking. Else I'd find "real men" more attractive ?  

 

[Histiletto]

Which is it - masculinity or femininity that promotes what an individual would choose to wear had that person felt free to make their own decision? Using the endowment of ones sex doesn't really give us a clear answer, because males, as well as females, are not always following the rules that are dictated in their stereotyping. Also the rules have not always been the same for either sex. Males use to be more of the peacock dressers in the public realm, while females wore the homely bland threads unless they were of a higher status that expected them to match the appearance of the man they were with. Then the technology of the industrial era changed the circumstance of western civilization to where the males were portrayed into becoming sensible and practical dressers which meant if they still wanted to peacock their wardrobes, they would no longer be man-card carrying males. This makes me wonder how much was the idea or presences of homophobia involved with causing society to think men didn't want to wear any selections of frilly, brocade, and impractical styles of attiring as they had in previous eras. Maybe this is a reason many men are noted to be color blind and dull dressers, because they haven't seriously considered the spectrum of colors, textures, and various designs, like women have almost been forced to do in order to be socially fashionable, for their appareling choices.

So, perhaps the idea of gender is just a way society has used to control an individual's decision-making by initiating the boundaries people are able to select from. The fact that gender is based on a person's sex, makes it a real crime since masculinity is a trait women are also known to exhibit, just as there are noted men that have the qualities that are defined as femininity. Otherwise, there wouldn't be labels, like "tomboy" and "sissy" to name a couple that recognize such behaviors, mannerisms, and/or appearances. A person's taste is also not based on a gender classification, but on the personality that individual has. In essence, gender has really no real direct connection to who a person is, for it is a man-made assumption from a theory that has been used to promote society's ideals for men and women. The attitudes, like men aren't suppose to be able to nurture their children and wear high heeled outfits or that women aren't capable of having business careers and become the financial support for their family unit, have been products of the socially promoted gender theory. Had the gender classifications been correct and people had been able to comply without any exception to speak of, then masculinity and femininity would have been applicable, but humans are simply complex individuals with their own set of feelings, desires, and taste. Society may be able to force a type of constraint to make people fall in line, but that only breeds feelings of not being full partners with others in an activity and causes people to be less motivated to perform or present their best. Multiply that feeling by the world's population that have to live in these kind of constraints and you have a very upset world or a feeling that there is no help to get out of their (our) suffering environments. Ideally, if only we could relate to the human beings people really are, and accept them as individuals in their quest to be their best. Of course, there will be those who are selfish and greedy, but maybe under the system that allows individuals to be who they are, such iniquities would be minimized. 

To recap: Gender is a man-made classification that has been placed on people to control their social choices and perspectives. It is an inaccurate, if not totally incorrect description or definition of each individual. Every person has their own personality and needs for satisfaction, which is important to their self-worth and image. When people feel they have to hide any part of who they are, their performance as a human being becomes compromised and society is diminished due to those people not feeling they can give their all. We have been told what we can like and how we are to perform to be in compliance with a bogus stereotype. This is the sophisticated artistry in the slaving or bullying of human beings, but it has been part of our traditional existence that it has been accepted and ingrained as how things are suppose to be. Hopefully, fresh eyes can see this gender social plague for what it is - man-made illusions of conniving faults hood based in some truths.

[robbiehhw]

Histiletto - Very well stated. Agree on all fronts. I have likened people that attempt to bring others back into line in this system to societies overactive and unneeded immune system. Antibodies doing harm. It is done out of fear or when they themselves remember stepping out and getting squashed on some issue. They believe they have to return the favor. 

Human brains love to categorize and draw swift conclusions. At some point in our evolution it served us well by deciding if the animal ahead was a predator or potential food. This no longer serves us very well,

 

 

[Shyheels]

I think people are confusing 'gender' with 'gender roles'. Gender is biologcal and, usually, quite straightforward. Gender roles, and the baggage of stereotypes and prejudices that accompanies it, is something else again.

[robbiehhw]

I disagree. Sex is biological, gender is a construct. Sometimes it is expressed as Gender identity. Gender roles are things assigned or adopted within Gender. They vary by culture as an example. Often the reason that people bristle (often cultural conservatives) at Gender being a distinct thing, is that it means that people can truly choose their gender, and they can. 

There is disagreement on this and some of it is pretty intense. Even the Wikipedia article discussed it and may contextual uses of gender.