A Parents Reflection.

[ilikekicks]

Once again.. the standard disclaimer : You might not like this or the themes involved. If your offended easily or are so closed-minded in your beliefs, dont waste your bandwidth on reading this.

I found this article and took a good reflection about it. I sat and gave it some serious thought. I happen to know a local troop leader and they use an area on my families farm for Archery and Rifle ( WOW! Imagine that! cub and boyscouts holding and firing guns! OH MY! ).

The more I read of this article, the more I questioned society and humanity.

Article :

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Scouts No More

Michael S. Alford

lewrockwell.com

March 5, 2013

As the parents of multiple home-schooled children we are always looking for ways to get our kids some social activity. With that in mind we had considered Cub Scouts for our two oldest. I had a very positive impression of the organization, and expected lots of fun with campouts and survival skills being taught. And to tell you the truth, it started out great. We formed up a little Pack made up of other homeschoolers, and in true homeschooler fashion, us dads sat down with the BSA Manual and began to rewrite the curriculum. We decided what to keep, what to toss, and the dad we elected as the Den Leader did a phenomenal job. We even rewrote some of the standard Cub Scout cheers which we thought were a bit ribald for these 1st graders in our care. When time came for fundraising, we rejected the overpriced trinket sales model that was recommended and we devised our own program which was a smashing success. The whole family was involved in our Cub Scout pack, even the Den leader’s daughters who volunteered to be the hapless victims in every first-aid scenario we played out. The poor girls choked on a chicken bone, broke their legs, had boulders fall on them. It was great fun.

Then the phone calls happened. One of the higher-ups in the organization was hearing rumors that we weren’t sticking to the manual. Soon observers from the Council level started showing up at our meeting. It became harder and harder for our family to attend the meetings since we lived on the other end of the county and some obscure rule dictated where we could and could not meet. The Den Leader announced that he and his family would be relocating. It was the combination of these and other factors that caused us to move to a more established Pack closer to our home.

But more established came with a cost. We were the only homeschoolers in this group, and it showed, as the meetings were built off of the insanely arbitrary public school holiday calendar. It was fairly early on that we learned that the siblings were not welcome at the meetings. This caused some tears at our house, but my reasoning was that the 2nd oldest would be old enough to have his own Pack at the end of the year, so let’s just endure and get out of this what we can. The time for fundraising came and the overprized trinket model was foisted upon us. This required us to literally spend hours outside of chain stores hawking our wares to random passers-by, with most of the proceeds going to upper levels of professional Boy Scouts. We approached the organization with the idea that had done us so well before and it was flatly rejected. We were told to sell the overpriced trinkets or do without any funding. A bit of investigation proved that the organization was top-heavy with salaried employees and that a substantial portion of these sales went to pay their salaries. Every meeting seemed to focus more and more on the fundraising, with a curtailing of activities for those who did not meet the quotas. At one of the banquet dinners, the higher up who had called me before to investigate the non-compliance rumors presented a program wherein our Scouts would be going door to door asking for donations. This would be done in addition to the expensive uniforms, the dues that went up every year, the campouts that cost more and offered less, and the ridiculously expensive buttons, beads, patches, etc that adorned the uniforms. The statement was made “Your friends are neighbors are already benefiting from having Scouts in the area, now it’s time for them to pay for it.”

I began to have real issues with the organization’s definition of ‘patriotism’. Police were brought in to give speeches on how to be a good citizen, with good citizen defined as ‘somebody who helps the police do their job’. Cops were heroes, firemen were heroes, the military were heroes, virtually anyone who wore a state uniform was lauded for their heroism. The Pledge of Allegiance was a staple in the meetings and there was a constant push towards collectivism and conformity. One of the ‘permission forms’ I was expected to fill out to be able to accompany my own child somewhere requested the social security numbers and medical history of my entire family. I refused and challenged the need for this information, and was told that ‘nobody else has any problem with it.’ When I voiced my objections, we were marked as ‘those people’. I declined to become a Den leader because it would have required me to sign on to all sorts of things that ran contrary to the culture of our family. Soon after that, planning meetings were being held without my knowledge, and an agenda trotted out that sent up a fresh litany of red flags for me almost every week. I began to have a sick feeling in my stomach most meetings. My children of course, were blind to all this, as they simply saw this as an opportunity to be around other kids.

It’s also worth mentioning the campouts. Twice a year we would go to a BSA-approved facility where a list of pre-scheduled activities was offered to us, with no deviations allowed. These campouts were expensive and charged per person which made it hard to take the entire family. The Scouts would be taught mindless cheers (borrowed from old gospel hymns) that lifted up the Boy Scouts as a great organization with lots of fun to be had by all. Then they would be marched from activity to activity under the ever-watchful eye of salaried Scout employees who would do everything in their power to reduce the liability of the Scout organization should anyone become injured. Any suggestions outside of the approved schedule would be quietly dismissed, and this collectivism extended even down to the food choices for the campout. A list was given to us of foods we would be buy which would then be held in common and dispersed by the leadership. I said ‘No thanks, we’ll bring our own food’ to icy stares.

There were people in the group that seemed pretty dedicated to having a good time, some of them at low levels of leadership and they rode the rules right up to the edge. But every meeting there seemed to be more rules, more things to be signed, more money doled out for patches that celebrated the most mundane of achievements (they have a video game merit badge, for crying out loud) and more calls for fundraising with less actual activities. The drift was towards safe lawsuit-proof activities which happen to be excruciatingly boring for a young boy. I’ll give you an example. It came time for my oldest to qualify to be able to carry a pocketknife on campouts. The proficiency is supposed to be demonstrated with a block of wood and a knife. Somebody somewhere in lunatic-ville decided that having the boys demonstrate actual proficiency with actual pocketknives would be too dangerous, and so they were issued plastic cutlery and a bar of soap. I wish I was making this up.

In the middle of all this we discovered a wonderful book written over 100 years ago by the co-founder of scouting. . Its very pages ooze with rugged individualism and self reliance. This man taught his early Scouts to go into the woods and cut down trees to make their shelters (tents? Bah!), to hunt and kill their supper. There is a whole section on how to perform in-field taxidermy! By contrast, the modern Scouts are taught a philosophy of ‘Leave No Trace’ which sounds harmless enough, but the implementation of it was that not only would you not leave any trash behind but you wouldn’t even pick up sticks from off the ground lest you ‘disturb nature’. Instead, it was required that we bring all our firewood with us from outside the campsite, and take all the ashes with us once we were done. I, apparently the ever-present troublemaker, questioned the very sanity of some of their policies, and once again was not invited to the meetings. I took this book to one of the higher ups, and was told in no uncertain terms that the world in which Scouts could do activities like the ones described in that book were long gone

By now I had 2 children in 2 different Packs that met in 2 different locations, and Monday nights were becoming my least favorite night of the week. Another thing I noticed was a lack of fathers involved in Scouts. Since we live in a culture of male-abdication, I usually was the only dad at these events. And because I was unwilling to be in position of leadership (along with its requirement to endorse all sorts of lunacy) the leadership vacuum was filled by women. Now women are great, I’m a huge huge fan of them, but women, as I’m sure you will agree, are not men. And the teaching of boys is best left to men whenever possible. These well-meaning ladies, coupled with our litigious society, created an environment where risk-taking was a frightful prospect, and instead it was enough to simply read from the Scout manual about how to do dangerous things and then check the box so that you can get your ridiculously expense little patch.

I made a command decision, that the organization was teaching dangerous things, and at a high cost, and at the end of the year we would be withdrawing from the program. I cannot recommend the organization to anyone, especially anyone with a penchant for questioning what they are being told. I had endured gut-wrenching meetings for 3 years, and my children had no skills to show for it. However we still have the book, and our family this spring will be returning to the spirit of Scouting and seeing if we can learn some real skills along the way.

This article was posted: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 3:19 pm

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The whole idea of scouting is to make people more self aware and more self sufficient. From conversations, I know there are at LEAST 5 ' preppers ' on this site.

I've learned ( and am still learning ) a LOT about how to survive on my own. I would say, I have a better chance then most of the power went out at this very moment. I wouldnt have much of a problem in regards to where my next meal is coming from ( a family of farmers and Im an avid hunter ).

When I read this article, and talked to the local BoyScout leader that I know, there was a HUGE difference in what was portrayed.

I know the local Troop that he runs does camping. I know they learn how to use maps ( we set up a course ) and a compass to find their way around. I know they have a grasp with astrology and can navigate by the stars ( some of the older kids can ). I know they can make a bow and arrows and can identify animal tracks, feathers of different birds and about certain snakes common to this area.

Im really baffled about whats wrong with teaching our kids the basics on how to survive and why there is such a resistance to teaching kids such.

[dww]

Three words for the uk anyway Health and Saftey. I agree 100% with what the chap is saying. I was a boy scout way back in the late 50's and I know it's totally differant today and I always carried a knife, try doing that today.

[Heelster]

As a registered adult leader withing the BSA, there is some truth to this but there sounds like more bull than anything. Don't have time for all the details right now, but I would like to research some of his claims based on attempting to determine location etc. Due to the previous bad actions by some of our leadership, there are certain rules that have been put in place to protect youth from these people. In some areas of discussion such as this, there is no room for deviation, and we as leaders understand this. I will delve into this more in the near future.

[TXGuy]

I am also involved with cub scouts and girl scouts. This person’s description appears to be very different from what I experience. Yes, there are elements of truth, we have pop corn sales in late summer, we do 2 camping trips, say the Pledge of Allegiance at meetings, and we do pretty much follow the book/manual and I have put down our social security numbers for the health /permission forms each year. But I have never looked on my experience with the same impression that this person has. As far as the paid higher ups, I have yet to really see any of them show up at our meetings. Although the pack leader may interact with them. But I have nothing to see in terms of negative interference at all. As for camping, the events/activities that are planned are planned by the leaders and volunteers, including me. Most are geared toward achieving a goal or belt loop etc. We’ve never got angry at a kid who didn’t want to participate in an activity. I know from experience as there was an activity that my son did not want to participate. He did not get the belt loop, but that is also a learning experience. We do preach leave the area as we found it, but that is not a Boy Scout only rule now a days. Pretty much everything in the wild has a use. Although I don’t believe nature over time really planned on it being firewood for people. If everyone at the campsites we have been at picked up wood for fires, after one season, every piece of dead wood would have been scavenged and burned. Yea, when I was kid playing out in the woods out back, you could do things like that, but it was only a few of us that would camp out there, the forest easily replenished faster than we used it. I agree on the compass and maps. My son has had a compass since his first year and can read maps. I’m planning on giving him a nice Swiss Army knife for his birthday. Better than the one I carry. But, I’m wondering if his school has a zero tolerance policy for knives/weapons…. And make sure he never takes it to school…. Another topic, but one I’m against. Especially for the recent rash of stories of small kids getting suspended for playing with something they imaging looking like a gun. Hands, paper….. As for the parents, there is a rule that there always has to be a parent there. I believe basically due to the sexual predators that targeted the boy scouts for obvious reasons. But it doesn’t matter to me if they are men or women. I see this person’s point, but I also remember from when I was a cub scout (dropout…). In my den, it was run by the mothers. My father would have liked to come, but he worked a lot to support us. And it was the same for most of my friends. I can’t say that is the reason why every father can’t make it, but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. His experience is definitely light years from mine. I don’t see any resistance to teaching the kids to be outdoors and to survive on their own. But then, I don’t live in a liberal city like NYC. I’m in Texas, and we’re probably open to a lot of things that would not be right in NYC in terms of outdoor activities…..

[ilikekicks]

Im starting to believe that this is just a small incident that happened in one area or in one Troop. As stated before, we allow a local Troop to use an area of my families farm for Archery, the rifle range ( with one of us there along with them ) and an area to camp. Often, when they have their Camp Times, Members of the Seneca Nation come and they learn about the ways of the Indians ( native Americans for those whom dont like the term ). They learn about identifying certain forestry, how to cleanse/purify water, how to plant crops. Honestly.. Its more like an Education then anything else, kind of like a ' school ' of sorts. The local Troop will be out on the 30th to clean up the camping area they use. Ill have to speak with their Adult Leaders and see what they think. I dont know if this is just an Article to put down scouting in general or if its just one families perspective on a bigger picture or a local happening.

[Guest]

I was disappointed for what my scout troop wasn't doing, it had got stagnant. Very little motivation from the staff. This was in 1965/66. My previous Cub days were good motivated and fun. The Cubs packs generally locally were run by women/mothers whilst the Scouts were the male domain. It was also rumoured that much of the north Surrey/south west London (local) area was run by members of the masons during the mid 70s, truth,rumour or slander? who knows or would admit? Within the UK a Christian based community in my time but moved with the times as needed. If I remember correctly to quote the line "Do my duty to god and the Queen". I left and joined a military youth group "Air Training Corp" which wasn't without issues in hindsight but gave far more scope as to experience and life learning skills including leadership. My children went to Woodcraft Folk an alternative "green" and peace movement orientated youth organisation. I think they got as much and probably more than the Cubs and Scouts gave to me. A slight bias here I also helped acquire and make much of their camping equipment. My ex (and future husband) set up a local group as the previous closed due to the leaders retirement and lose of venue. Youngest stepdaughter went to Brownies of which she hated, was poorly organised with no basic discipline. It sounds like ILKs local troop is as the Scout movement should be! The teaching of young people should be aimed at good practises, being safe in using tools/weapons, how to survive and care for the environment. Setting challenges. Respecting and careing of your friends/neighbours/team/troop etc, learning to guide and teach others that follow. Taking responsibility. Being proud of your country with belief/allegiance should be natural not indoctrinated. "Scouts No More! There seems to be far too many issues than just a negative downer in that write up, finance issues always stink, safety should be with sense not a pin for nappies (diapers). I'll end there. (for now). Al

[meganiwish]

I went to Brownies and then Guides. I loved it. I can tie my bean poles together because I can remember my knots and I can remember making an oven using a biscuit tin. You had to feed it with kindling so it wouldn't get too hot and then you could bake a cake. ILK, when society fails, you bring the provisions and I'll make the cake. I'll provide the tea. My children went to Woodcraft Folk and loved it. It was born out of the co-operative movement. They both learnt some self reliance there, I think.

[dww]

Yep I must say being a boy scout and later the air cadets taught me a lot about life and respect for other people, good manners do not cost anything. I learnt all the usual things map reading which I still use today who needs gps. I was even taught by my scout master how to light a fire using ice (work that one out), but it did me no harm but a lot of good, pity a few of todays kids don't do the same. my daughter got into ballet at a very early age she now owns and runs her own dance school, teaches ballet modern tap and a few more things to lots of kids in and around our local area. I believe kids should have a interest in something other than computer games and the telly. My daughter and girlfriend are also radio hams, daughter passed the exam at 14 years old, both did so to be involved with me in my hobby.

[Amanda]

I think the Story Dan posted is indicative of the general direction that society is moving in the west. I'm not surprised at all actually. Top heavy and financially corrupted with litigation compromising core values. Ps Dan, do please learn to grow Asparagus and smoke Salmon as I'm rather relying on you to save me from ripping my stockings and getting all covered with mud when the power goes out.

[Guest]

Stoned on salmon? Amanda. Thats a new one . Yes I think we will try to save your stockings. Brambles kill hose in seconds. H&S + every financial grab is killing fun and the joy of growing up. Al

[Amanda]

Like

[meganiwish]

Yep I must say being a boy scout and later the air cadets taught me a lot about life and respect for other people, good manners do not cost anything. I learnt all the usual things map reading which I still use today who needs gps. I was even taught by my scout master how to light a fire using ice (work that one out),

Manners, quite so. And when I'm reading the map we only rarely drive into a river.

You freeze water in a bowl and use the ice to make a lens and focus the sun on the kindling.

[Guest]

Must be handy having a freezer in the middle of nowhere. Al

[ilikekicks]

I think the Story Dan posted is indicative of the general direction that society is moving in the west.

I'm not surprised at all actually. Top heavy and financially corrupted with litigation compromising core values.

I believe what you have stated to be the blatancy obvious yet there are many whom would scream otherwise.

More rules are being imposed to prevent litigation.

Ps

Dan, do please learn to grow Asparagus and smoke Salmon as I'm rather relying on you to save me from ripping my stockings and getting all covered with mud when the power goes out.

No salmon in the waters here. Trout, Bass, Perch though.. they are all over and in quantity . As for the stockings.. ' Be Prepared ', stock up whilst you can

[dww]

Well done Megan but he did not use a bowl he shaped it with his hands and it was in his garden and a sunny day. My daughter learnt to map read for when out foxhunting. Before you scream not real foxes but radio hams hiding and you have to find them using your direction finding skills and a compass and a map, we came first a few times, was better when we were the fox though.

[Amanda]

No salmon in the waters here. Trout, Bass, Perch though.. they are all over and in quantity . As for the stockings.. ' Be Prepared ', stock up whilst you can

Hmm, I think I would leave any stocking up to my ruthless band of post apocalyptic pirate scouts. I suppose you'd better put some signs up around your farm with a pink high heel on them so they would know not to stock up there.

[ilikekicks]

Hmm, I think I would leave any stocking up to my ruthless band of post apocalyptic pirate scouts. I suppose you'd better put some signs up around your farm with a pink high heel on them so they would know not to stock up there.

OK! I will stock up and have a good supply. I would graciously share

My daughter learnt to map read for when out foxhunting. Before you scream not real foxes but radio hams hiding and you have to find them using your direction finding skills and a compass and a map, we came first a few times, was better when we were the fox though.

Whats wrong with bagging a fox? They are somewhat tasty.

[dww]

Sorry Ilk would not eat one, we love our foxes here in the uk.

[Bubba136]

Eating a fox,in my opinion, would be just like eating a dog.

[ilikekicks]

Ive never tried dog so I couldnt tell you. Ive eaten Snake, Frogs legs, cows, hogs, chickens, fox, woodchuck, Possum, Monkey brains ( in japan ), Goat, Coon.. Outside of ' varmit ', I dont feel theres a need to hunt anything endless your going to eat it. A fox tends to be a ' problem ' when theres a chicken coup in the area.

I must say though, although it was nasty tasting ( tasted like how wet/cut lawn smells ), I did bag a 25+pound woodchuck. My dog sniffed it and ran. Smart dog . after one mouthful I hurled and threw it out. No amount of BBQ sauce can help those things.

Amanda..

http://www.visitbuff...shing-charters/

"Lake Ontario is one of the finest fisheries in the Great Lakes. It has a tremendous salmon population, with many weighing in at over 40 pounds."

From their graphic chart, it appears there is a great deal of Salmon on Lake Erie and Ontario. I didnt know, I dont fish. Last time I went fishing, the boat capsized because of something I did. They havent asked me back again .

[meganiwish]

I'll eat most stuff. What's a woodchuck?

[Shafted]

Groundhog.

[ilikekicks]

Groundhog.

This is what they look like :

Groundhog-Standing2.jpg

They are a form of a squirrel but they dig holes..

http://www.pestproducts.com/woodchucks.htm

Basically, if you own farm land and dont take measures to control their population.. they will destroy a LOT of things. They eat your garden, they dig holes in your fields and when your tractor hits them, it ( the tractor ) gets damaged. They will tunnel near the sides of your barn and often dig out one of the main support poles that hold it up..

They arent that ' bright '. I usually take a hockey whistle with me when I go out. They are called ' whistle pegs ' because when you blow the whistle, they stand up ( like in that picture ) and look around to see where the noise came from.

In some ways, they are smarter then humans though! They have figured out how to live with the opposite sex without ANY problems. They wake up in early spring from hibernation, go out and find a mate, get laid, then forget about them. The females go off and have a litter of pups ( usually 2-6 ) and 3-4 weeks after having them, the mother just leaves them. They are a very independent animal. Its tough to find 2 that live within 50 yards of each other. They are usually spread out and tearing everything up.

Contrare to popular belief, they DO get big in size. They might only live 7-8 years if something doesnt have them for dinner or if they arent exterminated by a control measure method. I have seen one that when it stood up, its head was level with a 31inch truck tire on my friends Bronco ( truck ). The heaviest one I have ever weighed was 31lbs. It was weighed about an hour after it died so it probably weighed 33-35lbs and it was about 2 foot long ( not counting the tail ).

This is my foot in this pic, size 10 sneaker.. The ' chuck ' in the pic is tranquilized. It was too close to a house that I didnt want to use a bullet.

Most people say the best way to deal with woodchucks are to get these ' have a heart ' cages. You put fruit or clover in them, the chuck strolls in to get the food and its trapped. You then let them go someplace else. They can be rented along with having someone come by once the cage traps something. It costs about 250$ for EACH one trapped.

As mean as it seems, its actually easier to just grab a rifle, some lemon aide and go out for an hour and save a couple hundred dollars.

I was out cutting a section of lawn ( ' brush hogging ', making hay bails ) and the tractor I use had one of the smaller front tires go into one of their holes. It put the tractor front end down and made the cutting part in the back come off the ground. when the tractor leveled, the blades on the cutter slammed into the ground and broke off. One of the blades flew 50+ yards. Another one literally shred a wheel and tire on the tractor. The 3rd blade put a slice in my leg and cut part of the seat away. I didnt even see the hole as the grass was about 15-20 inches high.

[Rockpup]

My troop never made it past Weblo before it split up, but I've helped my nephew with scuba diving and marksman merit badges.

Sorry Ilk would not eat one, we love our foxes here in the uk.

The UK is the only place I've seen a fox in a semi-urban area, thought it was cool but the resident did not seem to notice. Probably like us seeing an iguana sunning himself on a rock down here.

I've only seen woodchucks in Juno AK, but these ones must be tourist fed as they let us get pretty close for photos.

[meganiwish]

Doesn't shooting them cause global warming or something? Or make the winter last forever? I think I saw a nature programme about them presented by Sonny and Cher.

[Shafted]

Shooting them causes Spring to begin on time.

[ilikekicks]

My troop never made it past Weblo before it split up, but I've helped my nephew with scuba diving and marksman merit badges. The UK is the only place I've seen a fox in a semi-urban area, thought it was cool but the resident did not seem to notice. Probably like us seeing an iguana sunning himself on a rock down here. I've only seen woodchucks in Juno AK, but these ones must be tourist fed as they let us get pretty close for photos.

No Chucks in Florida? I guess that would be highly possible as if ya cant have a basement for your house, how is a chuck going to make a burrow?

I have seen a fox on the streets of Buffalo.

Doesn't shooting them cause global warming or something? Or make the winter last forever? I think I saw a nature programme about them presented by Sonny and Cher.

Global Warmongering? Nope.

Shooting them causes Spring to begin on time.

Yeppers!

Its odd. We have this conversation going and I was heading out to a local store.. and I saw one today!

[Aly]

I'll eat most stuff. What's a woodchuck?

Something that chucks wood?

[Dr. Shoe]

Why are Americans obsessed with "prepping"?

I think if society broke down to the extent that they'd need to barricade themselves in the house with 20 years stock of food and about a million rounds of ammo, I'd think the lucky ones would be the people that don't survive the initial holocaust.

My way to "prep" would be to buy a huge bottle of shisky to go with the jar of sleeping pills.

BTW. You get Foxes right in the centre of London. Anywhere where there are parks and gardens and loads of discarded food.

[Shafted]

Why are Americans obsessed with "prepping"?

Prepared = Peace of mind

Who really knows? I don't think anyone really wants to live in a post apocalyptic world. If that was the only thing to prepare for there would be few preppers.

What about things like extended power outages, which seem to be more frequent in this country in recent years.

Being prepared, is being prepared for anything. It's just common sense.

While the chances of one disaster occurring is quite low. When you add up all the disaster possibilities it becomes likely.

The government has already PROVEN that they can't handle disasters.