The ' Helps ' Kid.

[ilikekicks]

Ive been ' laid up ' as of late. Had another surgery and all is quite well. Since the first surgery, Darian and I have hired a woman whom comes by twice a week and helps out with the laundry, cleaning.. minor ' house keeping ' of sorts. Shes a long time associate of Darians ( went to college together or something ). Her son comes by to do the yardwork. Cutting grass, trimming the hedges and even went as far as cleaning up a lot of the oil stains out in the workshop. Hes not what I would call a ' manly man ' nor do I believe he will ever become one. Hes soft spoken, honor roll grades, non athletic and more into being a g33k/nerd then anything else. They stopped by this morning and I was lounging around in Harem pants and a pair of wedge booties. Shes known about my clothing tastes for quite a while, her son really didnt.. that is until today. After taking out the trash, he came in and asked me " arent those womens shoes and pants? ". We had a conversation in regards to what ' clothes ' are and what can and cannot be worn by whom. His mother joined in and it was an excellent discussion until the young guy asked if he could try to wear a pair of my shoes. Granted, hes only 13 ( maybe 14? ), and easily influenced, but his mothers worries werent of ridicule, but that of him stumbling and falling over ( injuring himself ). After a few minutes of haggling, she decided to let him give it a go. He didnt fall but it was quite evident that he was challenged in the art of moving about in heels. His mother laughed and said " I told ya! It takes a lot of practice to learn to strut about in heeled shoes. Its an arttform! ". The part that gets tricky is he now believes this is some kind of task he needs to accomplish. Its something that he feels is a challenge and he wants to overcome it. He decided to tell his mother that hes going out as a babe on halloween and needs to get a pair of heels and start practicing. Mom ( to my surprise ) wasnt shocked at all. When they finished straightening the place up ( only takes all of maybe 2-3 hours at most ), His mother and I had a conversation. She doesnt want to be seen shopping with him for ' womens wear ' as she believes it will set the wrong example. Her son wears the same size as I do. She asked if he could ' borrow ' a pair or if she could buy a pair of the shoes I have. The question she finally presented to me was ' would you take him shopping? '. Thats the dilemma and honestly, I have no problem with it. Im sure Darian will tag along and we would probably go and buy him a whole outfit. The problem is.. why cant his mother? Im not a parent and Im not going to profess knowing the ins and outs of being in such a position but it just baffles me how she can approve of a behavior ( like wearing different clothes ) , yet not support him in the same reasoning ( by taking him shopping ). Any input is appreciated.

[Shafted]

I think it is a matter of her being supportive but not wanting to project that appearance in public. It probably stems from the fear of appearing as a bad parent. If he's out doing it on his own it's almost becomes a non-issue. I mean just look at what kids are wearing these days. I honestly think that she doesn't want to appear to be pushing him into it, but it's okay for him to do it on his own. I think her fears are very valid. She sounds like a very sensible woman. He's very fortunate to have someone to show him the ropes.

[Guest]

As with Shafted I think Mum/Mom is happy for her son to explore and decide but wishes to take a back seat.

Certainly he may be exploring a feminine side as he goes through puberty (familiar grounds) and with mum being open minded and sensible this may be an easy way. She may know far more than than what comes across but not wishing to voice it.

Doing this shopping trip with Darian would be beneficial to you, he has seen a role model to follow. How deep will that "following" go?

Enjoy the moments and take care, be wary and watchful of developments and above all keep mum up to date.

Those teen years a very impressive I'd hate anything to go sour.

Al

[Alexis Hill]

Sounds like she supports him, but she is just not as strong as you. Some people really dislike to be judge negatively, and there is always a chance it could be a bad experience. She also may believe you know the best places to go that treat their customers the best.

[ilikekicks]

So.. we went outfit shopping today. What I found extremely odd was he was looking at ' common ' clothes. He didnt want to wear a skirt, but rather some skinny jeans. He didnt want to have some lacy undergarment, just a sports-type support garment. For tops, they were looser fitting.. Everything was like what the girls around the mall were wearing for ' every day ' attire. Its almost as if he just wants to ' blend in ' and not stand out at all. Basically, something like this.. http://shop.guess.com/catalog/groupview/900001436?INTCMP=2012-10-02-US-YC-FT-SBO&layout=2 .. but with these shoes.. http://shop.guess.com/Catalog/View/Women's%20Shoes/Rolene%20Suede%20Pumps/GWROLENE2 We didnt pay 90$ for them though. For me.. If Im going to do a ' girl ' or ' woman ' thing, The skirt is coming out, some kind of wild heels or thigh boots.. the outfit is going to scream ' im a serious bitch ', not ' im a common girl '. Most of you were all correct in saying his mother supports him, but she was worried what would happen if someone she knew saw her taking her son out shopping for ' womens ' clothes.

[Shafted]

Heels and skinny jeans seem to be a combo that the guys are really taking to, including myself. The big variation seems to be what to wear on top. I really like the example outfit in the link you posted for a guy to wear. Sounds to me like he already has a good style sense going.

[RonC]

Just a guess here, but I have a feeling that some of this may have been simmering for a while. I think someone that was going to do a "Halloween Costume" type thing would be looking for something that rather screams "look, I'm a man in wonens clothes". On the other hand, I believe that someone that has been longing to dress as a woman does not want to stand out, they want to look as much like a normal woman as possible. That is possibly why he selected "normal" clothes and a pair of heels that are a long way from outrageous. I believe he's had some feelings for a long while, and when the opportunity presented itself, he grabbed at the chance to finally be able to dress femininely and wear a pair of heels in public. I'm not doing a great job of getting my point across here - not quite sure how to state it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are drag queens - who tend to go toward the outrageous looks as it is mostly just a party to dress up - and then there are crossdressers, who typically desire to wear exactly what they like to see women wearing, which is generally mainstream clothing styles. I just have a feeling that he may be a budding crossdresser that was just offered a chance to live his dream - and he jumped at the chance. I believe that I can idnetify with him on some level. I would have done the same thing, and would have wanted to look like a "typical" woman in the process - not a flamboyant character of a woman.

[SleekHeels]

When I read your original post my first instinct was to agree, why can't his mother take him shopping, the experience would probably shake off a lot of hang-ups just like it does for many of us. But then I think it was easier for me to walk into a shoe store and overcome my hangups, maybe it's harder for her to deal with the added concern of being branded a "bad mother". Having said that, in reality she'd probably be branded "the coolest mom". As for the choice of Halloween outfit, I agree with RonC. In a way it's easy to camp it up and go over the top and for everyone to laugh it off, but to wear an understated outfit says it's not just a laugh, it goes deeper than that - in a way that's a bolder thing to do, much more revealing of your inner self rather than hiding behind a mask of caricature. For those who have a naturally louder style that's cool too. Personally I tend to find everyday fashion more appealing, but it's also exciting and fun to glam it up sometimes, it's all self-expression.

[AZShoeNut]

RonC said perfectly what I had in mind when I read this. I tried to do the same thing in high school. What I really wanted was an evening in heels like most women wore at that time. Regarding his mom, it is really hard to figure just where she is coming from but does it really matter. This young man is likely exploring his innermost and most closely guarded interests. I couldn't imagine a better couple to help him through it if that is in fact the case. Best, Larry

[ilikekicks]

I suspected he was into womens clothes but Im not really ( how to put this ) one to pry into someones ' personal ' business.

We ( Dar and I ) had a chat with his mother in regards to if hes ever show an interest into dressing as a girl in the past and she has stated he does wear eyeliner and eye makeup once in a while as all the kids he hangs out with do ( emo kids ) boys and girls alike. Different/odd hair colors, boys wearing skinny jeans all the time..

She has put a threshold on what all she will allow IE: Hes not getting a pair of crotch boots with a 9mile tall platform and hes not wearing dresses.. Eye makeup is somewhat ' ok ' but hes not doing glamour portrait type of plaster work on his face..

We showed her the outfit we bought for him and she was kind of shocked. She figured he would go for something as RonC described that would attract attention or scream ' look at me, im a guy in a dress ' or something of that nature.

Sleekheels has me wondering.. " but to wear an understated outfit says it's not just a laugh, it goes deeper than that - in a way that's a bolder thing to do, much more revealing of your inner self rather than hiding behind a mask of caricature. ".

I do think this might be deeper but its not my child or relationship to divulge into. If this were my child, I dont thing Dar nor I would have any problems with whatever he wore so long as he was presentable. Heels and skirts.. ok by us. But hes not our child so we wont press on anything.

His mother DID like the outfit and stated if it were 2 sizes bigger, she would rob it from him the day after.

When I sit and look at it.. Its something *I* would wear and not think twice about. Its just jeans and a shirt with a front opening sweater of sorts. Its nothing really ' way out there ' like a prom dress or jeans with all kinds of holes that someone would wear a pair of lace stockings underneath.. Its a very clean outfit that even on a woman wouldnt really say ' come and get it boys! '.

RonC said perfectly what I had in mind when I read this. I tried to do the same thing in high school. What I really wanted was an evening in heels like most women wore at that time.

Ive just come to heeling in the last 2 years. It was never an inner-desire of sorts nor a curiosity. It just came about as something ' different ' for me and on a dare of sorts. I figured ' why not ' and being honest.. I like heels BUT! If they disappeared tomorrow, Life would go on and I wouldnt feel depressed. I would miss them, but there are more important things for me.

After saying such, I wish I could relate to your experiences or desires ( the same ones many on this site have felt/expressed in my readings over the last year or so ) but its something Im kind of disconnected to. Theres never a constant ' urge ' or ' need ' nor ' desire '. Its something I just ' do '. Theres MANY times I could toss on a set of kicks and do what I intended to do that evening but I grabbed my sneakers instead. I think its like a ' mood ' thing more then anything else.

Regarding his mom, it is really hard to figure just where she is coming from but does it really matter.

It doesnt matter to me. Im just highly curious and being honest, I consider her ( the mother ) a friend. They are both ( more or less ) what I would call distant family.

This young man is likely exploring his innermost and most closely guarded interests. I couldn't imagine a better couple to help him through it if that is in fact the case.

Best,

Larry

Ive wanted to tell the kid my door is always open if he needs to talk about ANYTHING, but I dont want his mother to feel im infringing upon her parenting. Granted, the kids father ( absolutely in the bottom 1% of humanity IMO ) is out of the picture and we all know ( being guys/human ) that there are some things we used to go to mom about and some DAD just had to hear about!

I was fortunate enough to have both parents ( still do! ) in my life. for better or worse, they were always both there ( and still are ). This kid is missing half of that. and I really do feel bad for him even though hes quite happy.

-Ilk

[Rockpup]

My guess? Her son's had some gender issues that she has noticed. She knows you, and the fact that "as a man" you tend to wear things that might be womens clothing without attempting to be a woman. She sounds like she loves her son, but like all parents wants their kid to have as easy a life as possible, and the life of a TG is not easy. The earlier statement was right, he did not buy a costume, but an outfit. Might want to feel it out and possibly suggest letting the kid talk to a pro, specifically one who's handled the field of gender dysphoria before. Certain roads can be easier to travel down earlier then later.

[Gudulitooo]

ILK, I don't think this kid has gender issues at all.

When a guy put on women clothes to scream "I am a guy in women clothes" and have a good laugh, he is not "creating a look" at all.

The EMO people tend to be very freestyle after all. They are spending a lot of time to create their own look, even if it uses the same codes, they are into clothes and outfits. And most of all the women / man department frontier of any accessory is not so important as the whole look.

Now this time he wanted a different outfit. Even if he tried in the past, this time he had a good example to follow : I know you don't wear outrageous clothes, but carefully chosen outfits.

And finally, have a look at lolla's site "high heels for men", and filter only the post coming from lookbook.nu. Many guys have included outfits including plus or minus ccessories from the women side, and plus or minus androgynous, but not all their outfits are like this. Try this link to see for example this guy wears all styles without having especially focussing on women clothes.

[Rockpup]

Gudilitooo: maybe I am looking at the situation as someone who had gender issues as a kid, and instead of having supportive adults I was medicated to be 'normal'. My point was that if there is something there then this may be a time for him to explore it with a pro. Obviously this is far more complicated then a few posts on a msg board will ever explain. ILK: betcha did not expect to be a mentor

[Gudulitooo]

Rockpup, ok I didn't read so well ILK's firts post.

hes going out as a babe on halloween and needs to get a pair of heels and start practicing.

Nowadays "babes" are not dressing as fairy tale princesses, are they ? They are just the regular girl dressed with the last Guess outfit - skinny pants + heels + cute t-shirt.

So if you want to disguise yourself as a babe, then you need the clothes modern babes wear. There is nothing behind, and what I read about "if he doesn't take outrageous clothes to dissimulate under a mask then there is something more profound" is out of topic in my humble opinion.

ILK, then if he takes you as a model for disguising himself as a babe it becomes diferent. But I think he only aks you to come along because he wanted a masculine advice and presence.

Life's short. Have fun and avoid headaches.

[Guest]

I think Gudulitooo is giving you the fatherly title, can you handle the role? Al

[ilikekicks]

Quite a bit to reply to here..

ILK, I don't think this kid has gender issues at all.

Im no pro, I wont even try to make any decision or judgement. Doesnt matter to me either way.

When a guy put on women clothes to scream "I am a guy in women clothes" and have a good laugh, he is not "creating a look" at all.

The EMO people tend to be very freestyle after all. They are spending a lot of time to create their own look, even if it uses the same codes, they are into clothes and outfits. And most of all the women / man department frontier of any accessory is not so important as the whole look.

Now this time he wanted a different outfit. Even if he tried in the past, this time he had a good example to follow : I know you don't wear outrageous clothes, but carefully chosen outfits.

You are very correct. I dont wear ' wild ' outfits at all. I just try to be ' average ' at best. No cosmetics or accessories.. Nothing that ' sticks out '. I dont do such to blend in at all, its just my natural selection/instinct. Im not making any statements. It might be the root of why I can go out and not be bothered by people or get bugged all that often. I dunno.

And finally, have a look at lolla's site "high heels for men", and filter only the post coming from lookbook.nu. Many guys have included outfits including plus or minus ccessories from the women side, and plus or minus androgynous, but not all their outfits are like this. Try this link to see for example this guy wears all styles without having especially focussing on women clothes.

Thanks for the link! Very appreciated!

Gudilitooo: maybe I am looking at the situation as someone who had gender issues as a kid, and instead of having supportive adults I was medicated to be 'normal'. My point was that if there is something there then this may be a time for him to explore it with a pro.

Obviously this is far more complicated then a few posts on a msg board will ever explain.

ILK: betcha did not expect to be a mentor

Im no mentor. Just someone whos willing to take someone shopping. Dar is the mentor! Its HER fault!

Rockpup, ok I didn't read so well ILK's firts post.

Nowadays "babes" are not dressing as fairy tale princesses, are they ? They are just the regular girl dressed with the last Guess outfit - skinny pants + heels + cute t-shirt.

So if you want to disguise yourself as a babe, then you need the clothes modern babes wear. There is nothing behind, and what I read about "if he doesn't take outrageous clothes to dissimulate under a mask then there is something more profound" is out of topic in my humble opinion.

ILK, then if he takes you as a model for disguising himself as a babe it becomes diferent. But I think he only aks you to come along because he wanted a masculine advice and presence.

I dont think hes used to having a male roll model in any way at all. My advice to him is always ' do as you must or wish but dont infringe upon anyone else '.

I think Gudulitooo is giving you the fatherly title, can you handle the role?

Al

Hells no! Me, a father figure? Im no example to follow. Im way too liberal to make a *good* parent. Im not the authoritative type at all.

[LuvyourShoes]

Ilk, you may not think so, but somebody somewhere does look up to you as an example! I look at you and all the members here as examples for BEING YOURSELF! So there! I look up to you! Lol Aside from that, that has to be awkward, but she just a) trusts you and is unnerved about the social stigmas that her mind is making bigger. If it were me, I'd feel weird too, but I'd probably help the kid this one time and then let nature take its course. He'll continue to do whatever he wants and that's ok! That was supposed to be b.) Not

[ilikekicks]

I think my retirement is going to be short lived as im probably going to run out of funds.. ( joking ). A friend picked me up to go to GuitarCenter as I needed strings and picks ( ran out.. ). I spent some cash while I was there and when I arrived home.. Dar was gone. She arrived home about 3 hours later.. with the little guy. They unloaded some bags from her car.. They went shopping again.. Picked up a few more things and made him an appointment for a makeover and extensions ( the morning/afternoon of this party ).. She never did that for me LOL!!!!

[Shafted]

She never did that for me LOL!!!!

You're a big boy, you can handle it.

[Thighbootguy]

ilikekicks - I do hope your recovery is proceeding well.

The concept of a 13-14 year old male kid wanting to go out on Halloween as a babe is not that far out, but the level of support he is getting in that endeavor is surprising. I’m sure this Halloween will be a memorable event for him especially after having a makeover.

I think it would be instructive to read back over some of the threads here at hhplace on “How did you first start heeling?” I remember a lot of them that saying I tried my mom’s/sister’s/aunt’s/grandmother’s heels on in secret, but I don’t recall one about wanting to try on heels and everybody (including my mom) thought it was cool to the extent that helped me get a pair and even got me a makeover.

It would be very interesting to know what the kid thought about the adventure when Halloween is over. (Consider a serious discussion.)

I suspect he will discover that his adventure is just starting.

[Heelster]

"""Hells no! Me, a father figure? Im no example to follow. Im way too liberal to make a *good* parent. Im not the authoritative type at all.""" Some times the best parent doesn't need to be an authority figure. Just someone to lead the way by example. Ummmmm - - - - - I think your filling the shoes