interesting encounter with mall security

[heelma]

Today, I was out heeling in a town in Massachusetts. It's not a small town, but it's smaller than Boston. I dressed up as a woman again, like described in previous threads here (can find them out for you, if you're interested). That outfit included a dark shirt and jacket, black gloves, a black long hair wig, sun glasses, super flare jeans with long inseam and 5" stiletto boots (picture is attached now - had a wool jacket on top of that also though). I parked in a "mall" in center city, which had a really fancy design to it, but 80% of the store sites in there were vacant. Pretty depressing... I don't think that that's only due to the economy. Anyway, I walked around inside and outside for about 45 min, then came back to the mall and was looking for the elevator to the garages. As I wasn't familiar with that place and the elevators weren't signed at all, it took me quite a while to find them. Had to walk into various vacant hallways, with maybe a post office or a closed museum at their end. Once I finally found the elevators and got back to my car, I wanted to change back into regular clothes. While doing so, a security guy came to my car and asked me what I was doing. Unfortunately, he came just in time where I only wore underwear. All women's clothes were packed away already. I told him I am getting changed. His response: "You cannot do that here! Time to leave." Shortly after, two other security guys showed up and positioned themselves behind my car - far enough away though that I could back up. I put my shirt on and left. When I paid at the exit, the lady looked at my kind of scared, and one of those guys came there, too and looked at me like I am a thug. I left, and nothing else happened. Very interesting, isn't it? So ... as nobody else besides a decent chunk of other cars were in that garage, so nobody else walked by in the meantime and could have noticed anything, and I didn't leave the car at all either once I got there, I am positive those folks saw me on their cameras walking through the mall "en femme". Could someone please teach me why I can't get changed in my car in a garage? What is the difference between sitting in underwear in my car and wearing a bathing suit (=boxers) in a pool or on the beach? I really wonder if they were suspecting something else than just were bothered by me changing. Anyway ... I am experienced enough by now to not let that incident bother me, but I just think it's quite ridiculous that those guys came and confronted me. In my view, I didn't do anything illegal, and if I did, they probably would not just have let me go. Maybe they were just excited about something finally going on in that boring "mall" there ...

[HappyinHeels]

Heelma, You know you didn't do anything wrong but there are cameras around virtually everywhere you go now. Being in an area where the public would be coming and going you have figured you would not have been seen or bothered. But, because you were legally on private property, they used their cameras and security people to follow someone they thought suspicious even you'd done nothing wrong. It's probably better to get dressed at home (if you can), or a friend's house, or a store that's CD-friendly (after you made some purchases) then go out and enjoy your day.

[heelma]

I think it's probably because they saw me roaming around in the mall nearly by myself, clearly with a "costume" and then going look around everywhere while searching for the elevator. That's probably suspicious enough. Maybe they thought I was about to do something else than just CDing around in the mall, but rather break in into something....

I went in many other malls in the past (those were much more crowded though), and nobody bothered. With respect to getting dressed/undressed, I always do that in my car somewhere in public places, and I am 100% sure that if those guys hadn't seen me before I got into my car already, they wouldn't have come to check on me. Usually, I get changed in a side street somewhere, or in a garage of a mall.

Heelma,

You know you didn't do anything wrong but there are cameras around virtually everywhere you go now. Being in an area where the public would be coming and going you have figured you would not have been seen or bothered. But, because you were legally on private property, they used their cameras and security people to follow someone they thought suspicious even you'd done nothing wrong. It's probably better to get dressed at home (if you can), or a friend's house, or a store that's CD-friendly (after you made some purchases) then go out and enjoy your day.

[5150PLB1]

When it comes to going out to the malls, the more crowded the better. It is easier to be lost in the crowd. Not to mention mall security will be too busy chasing the mall rats to focus on you.

[Dr. Shoe]

How would you like it if a complete stranger was sitting outside your house in his underwear? Security guards are trained to watch for unusual behavior and an experienced one can spot a "suspicious person" within seconds of them appearing. Firstly they see a man in drag who is wandering around aimlessly, going down dead-ends and apparently looking for something. Then they see that person return to a car with an out-of-town registration and apparently sit there for quite some time. Now, add all that together and what do you have? Supposing they didn't do anything and then someone got attacked, who is the first person they would think about?

[Guest]

unfortunaly I have to agree with you, Dr Shoe-thats just the way it would usually go in today's world there are cameras EVERYWHERE, & you can bet your being watched by SOMEONE, somewhere no matter what your REAL intentions may be @ the time. I'd had something like this happen to me years ago but I wasnt really into heels @ that time (1970s) @ the Laguna Hills mall, just some idiot security guard who kept thinking I was stealing things, then I found out he faulsly accused other people of the same thing, then he winds up later being fired from THAT job then I saw him later working in the TILT video game shop!!

[heelma]

Dr Shoe - I mainly agree with you. Just two things: I ran into multiple security guards already while walking inside the mall, and nobody ever said anything. Frankly I did this in the past multiple times in other malls also, and I never was stopped by any of them. Underwear: I am positive the guy didn't know that I was sitting in my car in my underwear right when he came to the door. That was just really bad luck. The whole process to change takes maybe 10 min, 15 max., and I would have had my shirt on 30 sec later already. However, I even saw a security camera in the corner of the elevator. As I am probably the only one person within 30 min there to use it, someone probably saw it. Usually I prefer stairs when I go to the garage, but I didn't see any. Again ... I don't blame them for thinking I was up to something when they see me roaming around in the mall there. But, I didn't do anything. And what's wrong with getting changed in the car, and that's why they told me "time to leave!" ?

[5150PLB1]

How would you like it if a complete stranger was sitting outside your house in his underwear?

Security guards are trained to watch for unusual behavior and an experienced one can spot a "suspicious person" within seconds of them appearing.

Firstly they see a man in drag who is wandering around aimlessly, going down dead-ends and apparently looking for something. Then they see that person return to a car with an out-of-town registration and apparently sit there for quite some time.

Now, add all that together and what do you have?

Supposing they didn't do anything and then someone got attacked, who is the first person they would think about?

Sorry, I disagree with you. I worked swing shift as a guard in a mall for 11 years. At the mall I worked at, persons in drag were common, and not a big deal. We also welcomed out of towners. If they wanted to hang out, no problem- we knew that they had money, and would spend it. The only times we harrased them was on the rare occasions when they used their cars or the restrooms for bedrooms. It was the juveniles and want to be gangbangers who were the real trouble makers.

[Bubba136]

heelma, given the state of society these days, you are extremely fortunate that they didn't detain you for further investigation. If I were you, I would, as someone has already suggested, find another place to change if I couldn't change at home, or just not go out like this again.

[crotchhiguy]

I wouldn't have bothered about changing if I were you......you look good and acceptable to me!

[heelma]

I wouldn't have bothered about changing if I were you......you look good and acceptable to me!

I thought the same thing. I probably could just have taken off the wig and do some minor "cleanups", then leave immediately and change somewhere else. That's the future plan, at least for a less crowded malls like this.

Thanks for the compliment though.

[heelma]

heelma, given the state of society these days, you are extremely fortunate that they didn't detain you for further investigation. If I were you, I would, as someone has already suggested, find another place to change if I couldn't change at home, or just not go out like this again.

You are unfortunately correct that the alert level is so high that even such harmless things as this one could cause trouble.

[roniheels]

I thought the same thing. I probably could just have taken off the wig and do some minor "cleanups", then leave immediately and change somewhere else. That's the future plan, at least for a less crowded malls like this.

Thanks for the compliment though.

Look on the bright side. You shared your story with us, you got some good feedback, now you have a plan for future outings. This is a good post for others who cross-dress in public to keep in mind.

[Dr. Shoe]

This is what I did one day: I was going on a girlie weekend away and normally I would leave home en femme and not take any male clothing with me but I had to stop off at work on the way and I'm not fully out there. I had a pair of girlie jeans in a carrier bag along with a top and my underwear. I stopped at motorway services and went in the gents to put on my girlie stuff minus tits, make up and wig under my male clothes. Then I drove to the next services and did my make-up, took off my male jumper and put in my tits and wig on in the carpark then went into the ladies to take of my male jeans. I also had on a pair of heels at this point so I looked like a woman in her boyfriend's jeans. With careful planning it is possible.

[Dr. Shoe]

Dr Shoe - I mainly agree with you.

Just two things: I ran into multiple security guards already while walking inside the mall, and nobody ever said anything. Frankly I did this in the past multiple times in other malls also, and I never was stopped by any of them.

Underwear: I am positive the guy didn't know that I was sitting in my car in my underwear right when he came to the door. That was just really bad luck. The whole process to change takes maybe 10 min, 15 max., and I would have had my shirt on 30 sec later already.

However, I even saw a security camera in the corner of the elevator. As I am probably the only one person within 30 min there to use it, someone probably saw it. Usually I prefer stairs when I go to the garage, but I didn't see any.

Again ... I don't blame them for thinking I was up to something when they see me roaming around in the mall there. But, I didn't do anything. And what's wrong with getting changed in the car, and that's why they told me "time to leave!" ?

Yes, they won't say anything to you until you do anything completely out of the ordinary like sitting naked in your car!

I know you were in the process of changing but to them they would have followed you returning to your car, they might have seen you doing something in the car (it would have been bouncing on its springs) and then when one of them came to investigate he saw you sitting there in your underwear. What would you think about someone else doing that?

[Dr. Shoe]

Sorry, I disagree with you. I worked swing shift as a guard in a mall for 11 years. At the mall I worked at, persons in drag were common, and not a big deal. We also welcomed out of towners. If they wanted to hang out, no problem- we knew that they had money, and would spend it. The only times we harrased them was on the rare occasions when they used their cars or the restrooms for bedrooms. It was the juveniles and want to be gangbangers who were the real trouble makers.

So you wouldn't have asked a man sitting in his car wearing only his underwear to leave?

Suppose your daughter was raped and you later found out that a man was sitting in his car naked and the cops or security guard had not bothered to move him on?

I know that it doesn't neccesarily mean that that man had raped your daughter and that the two incidents could have been unconnected but as a responsible professional you should make sure that your backside's covered.

When I did my security training we were trained to spot suspicious people and the instructor stressed time and time again to get rid of suspicious people. It is better to move 100 innocent people than let one pervert in.

[heelma]

Yes, they won't say anything to you until you do anything completely out of the ordinary like sitting naked in your car!

Yes, though I wasn't naked, to be clear

I know you were in the process of changing but to them they would have followed you returning to your car, they might have seen you doing something in the car (it would have been bouncing on its springs) and then when one of them came to investigate he saw you sitting there in your underwear. What would you think about someone else doing that?

You are right, though I think it's a difference between catching someone else in underwear in his car and my case, where they saw me walking around before. I think it can't be a big surprise to them that I change to other clothes. But I might be wrong here.

Suppose your daughter was raped and you later found out that a man was sitting in his car naked and the cops or security guard had not bothered to move him on?

First of all, I didn't do anything like that and would never intend to do so either. Plus, I wasn't naked.

Also, I think it's kind of sad if these guys suspected an x-dresser to do something like that more so than someone else. Sorry, this reminds me of biased screening methods, or whatever you want to call it.

Yes, it probably was the combination of me first roaming around kind of randomly in the empty mall and then getting caught changing in my car. But neither of these is illegal.

Btw, just to be clear: the only reason why I dress up like this is that I feel more comfortable then to wear heels. Just to make sure you guys know that it's all about heeling

I think it looks "right" in women's clothes and not "right" in men's clothes, though I know there are many here who think differently. One other reason is that I know that it protects me from being immediately recognized if I bump into someone who knows me. I looked at pictures of myself many times and I have a very hard time recognizing myself like that. That's the intention.

[Dr. Shoe]

Yes, though I wasn't naked, to be clear

Yes I know that, though to be fair it would have looked that way to the guard approaching your car.

You are right, though I think it's a difference between catching someone else in underwear in his car and my case, where they saw me walking around before. I think it can't be a big surprise to them that I change to other clothes. But I might be wrong here.

To be honest, I think you are wrong. Guards normally expect people to get dressed at home...

First of all, I didn't do anything like that and would never intend to do so either. Plus, I wasn't naked.

Also, I think it's kind of sad if these guys suspected an x-dresser to do something like that more so than someone else. Sorry, this reminds me of biased screening methods, or whatever you want to call it.

Yes, it probably was the combination of me first roaming around kind of randomly in the empty mall and then getting caught changing in my car. But neither of these is illegal.

I know you wouldn't do anything like that (don't forget that I'm a Weekend Princess myself), but the guards and any subsequent investigator isn't going to know that. Yes I know you weren't naked but the guard would not have known that until he had actually looked inside your car. He may have believed that you were naked but put your underwear on when you saw him coming or that you were just about to take them off. Whilst you haven't broken any laws (except perhaps "Conduct Likely To Cause A Breech Of The Peace"), you cannot blame the guards for taking a precaution of moving you on.

Btw, just to be clear: the only reason why I dress up like this is that I feel more comfortable then to wear heels. Just to make sure you guys know that it's all about heeling

I think it looks "right" in women's clothes and not "right" in men's clothes, though I know there are many here who think differently. One other reason is that I know that it protects me from being immediately recognized if I bump into someone who knows me. I looked at pictures of myself many times and I have a very hard time recognizing myself like that. That's the intention.

I understand completely...

[Rockpup]

I don't tend to full x-dress, but often wear odd items and my only advice would be to only change one piece at a time in a car. I've had people come up on me when changing, and while not doing anything wrong that doesnt mean it does not look strange. For example.. the 'cleanest' but worst timed one was when I had a flat tire durring a bad rain storm on the highway. I put on a dirty set of work clothes I'd been wearing earlier and changed the tire. I was standing on the side of the van not facing traffic trying to peal the wet jeans down my legs when I heard a police officer chirp his siren. I didnt feel like walking back to his vehicle with pants pealed half off. So I tried to finish changing pants before going back to tell him I was fine. I'm sure it looked very odd that I knew he was there but I did not go back to say hi right away. Ok, not quite the same, but it is always awkward to be in your underwear when an officer or security guard comes up to you. Best to be avoided.

[Bubba136]

Despite all of the discussion that has taken place in this thread. I would think the overriding concern for heelma would be the probability that he just might be arrested one day, find himself appearing before a magistrate and winding up on the "sexual offender list" as a known sexual pervert," which is a forever life altering event with all of the restrictions that come with the label. Please let your better judgment drive your desires. Appearing in public while cross dressed is precarious at best and down right perilous unless you really look convincingly female.

[heelma]

Despite all of the discussion that has taken place in this thread. I would think the overriding concern for heelma would be the probability that he just might be arrested one day, find himself appearing before a magistrate and winding up on the "sexual offender list" as a known sexual pervert," which is a forever life altering event with all of the restrictions that come with the label.

Please let your better judgment drive your desires. Appearing in public while cross dressed is precarious at best and down right perilous unless you really look convincingly female.

I realized this risk now also, but only when it comes to getting caught while changing.

However, what you are saying here goes far beyond that. It will probably depend on the environment where you x-dress. In the northeast (usually, I am closer to the NYC area, if not in NYC itself), I really don't see any problems with that. And I did it many times during the last winter and will also do so during this colder season, probably not as often though. I never had any problems with that. I saw occasionally saw some cops laughing/smiling at me, but they never stopped or said anything.

In the midwest - yes, higher risk for sure. But, with the same argument, you could label a guy wearing regular men's clothes but 5" spike heels the same.

Bottom line - I learned that getting changed in public, even in my car, can be risky, particularly in a public area like a parking area, that people tend to associate with some perverts showing up out of nowhere to bother others.

But I strongly have to disagree with your x-dressing comments.

[Magic Heels]

I agree with Bubba. For a man to look convincingly female he needs to have the right figure, clothes and feminine adornments, with appropriate make up and hair-do or a fashionable wig. Even then it is probably best reserved for parties or occasions like my local pub's recent "Ladies Night" when men were only admitted dressed as women! I must have been reasonably convincing to win a bottle of whisky as the best looking "woman" !!

[danielp6406]

Heelma, You enjoy wearing heels, so why don't you go to shopping malls wearing heels with male clothings ? If you don't want to be recognized, then wear a hat and sunglasses (but no wigs !) No problem going out "en femme" but better doing it where it is safe, in a club or at parties with friends. Better be safe than sorry and change your clothes at home !

[Bubba136]

I realized this risk now also, but only when it comes to getting caught while changing.

However, what you are saying here goes far beyond that. It will probably depend on the environment where you x-dress. In the northeast (usually, I am closer to the NYC area, if not in NYC itself), I really don't see any problems with that. And I did it many times during the last winter and will also do so during this colder season, probably not as often though. I never had any problems with that. I saw occasionally saw some cops laughing/smiling at me, but they never stopped or said anything.

In the midwest - yes, higher risk for sure. But, with the same argument, you could label a guy wearing regular men's clothes but 5" spike heels the same.

Bottom line - I learned that getting changed in public, even in my car, can be risky, particularly in a public area like a parking area, that people tend to associate with some perverts showing up out of nowhere to bother others.

But I strongly have to disagree with your x-dressing comments.

That's OK with me. I am "cool" with your not agreeing with me. But, if you manage to get entangled in a "legal" proceeding, just keep in mind that it was your better judgment that advised you to walk the path that led you to having your picture taken at the local police precinct. I wish you well, what ever befalls you.

[heelma]

That's OK with me. I am "cool" with your not agreeing with me. But, if you manage to get entangled in a "legal" proceeding, just keep in mind that it was your better judgment that advised you to walk the path that led you to having your picture taken at the local police precinct. I wish you well, what ever befalls you.

I don't really follow the direction this discussion here is going right now. Last time I checked we all sort of seemed to agree that no security personnel cares if I walk around x-dressed. So, why are you now all the sudden thinking that this alone will lead to legal issues??

To be clear: I know that walking around like I do is not publicly accepted as normal outfit, and I know that people will make comments or laugh at me. This happened many times before and it will happen in future, and I really don't care. In the meantime, I not only walked by security personnel in malls like that, including the one where the incident occurred that I described earlier, but I also was laughed at by cops (or at least noticed) without anyone ever saying anything about it. Let me repeat - even the security personnel in that empty mall that later "caught" me changing in my car crossed my ways a couple of times in the mall before, without saying anything.

At least where I usually go out heeling in outfits like this, no police or security seems to care at all. This might be different in the mid west or in other countries or areas. But besides that, I don't see why walking around x-dressed alone should cause any legal problem. Again, I know that the general public (if they notice it) will make comments, laugh or whatever, but I also know they would do the exact same if they just saw me as a guy in guy's clothes with high heels on. I did this in the past, too, just as someone else here suggested (sunglasses and maybe hat, but no wig) and if someone noticed, he/she laughed. Really not that different reaction as when I am fully x-dressed, just that I feel better with the latter one.

[Dr. Shoe]

Going out en femme is not a problem.

Getting changed in the car is not really a problem.

Wandering round aimlessly and going down dead ends apparently looking for something isn't either.

Put them all together with a contemporary incident for which no one has been charged for and you could have a problem...

[heelsinmass]

where in mass do you live heelma? what mall were you at?

[heelma]

Going out en femme is not a problem.

Getting changed in the car is not really a problem.

Wandering round aimlessly and going down dead ends apparently looking for something isn't either.

Put them all together with a contemporary incident for which no one has been charged for and you could have a problem...

Yes, very good summary! Totally agree.

I think the problem started already that I didn't remember where the elevators were, as I was never before in that mall and they are not signed anywhere. This in conjunction with a really empty mall where you can walk through almost the entire mall and maybe meet 10 people and 3 security guys, plus walking in dead-end hallways in the way I was dressed must have raised attention. Already just because nobody else was there

I will definitely not get changed anymore in a garage or parking lot anymore.

[Bubba136]

Yes, very good summary! Totally agree.

I think the problem started already that I didn't remember where the elevators were, as I was never before in that mall and they are not signed anywhere. This in conjunction with a really empty mall where you can walk through almost the entire mall and maybe meet 10 people and 3 security guys, plus walking in dead-end hallways in the way I was dressed must have raised attention. Already just because nobody else was there

I will definitely not get changed anymore in a garage or parking lot anymore.

heelma, the last thing you have to do is justify your actions to anyone.

The main thing you must remember is that whatever you decide to do or not do is your choice because in the final analysis, you are the one that it will affect.

There are, however, a bunch of really "hinkey" people out there these days. Any action that causes someone to take notice probably will, perhaps, end up with some authority figure taking a "second look."

[Puffer]

It is probably risky nowadays to be observed partially undressed in any public area in the UK - and with surveillance cameras being so prolific there are not many places where one can be sure of not being observed, at least in urban areas. Although there is no specific offence in being undressed, cross-dressed or indecently dressed (or even naked) in public in the absence of any complaint from an observer, one might at least have some explaining to do, i.e. why one was there and what one's next action was to be.

Many years ago, I went on a business trip to a distant town and had arranged a date with a girlfriend whose home was on a convenient diversion from my return route. But I didn't want to go out with her wearing my business clothes so I took a change with me in my car. It was a mild autumn day and the easiest thing to do was to stop somewhere discreet to change; I picked a smallish country picnic/parking area which was deserted at 7pm, as one might expect.

It is always a struggle to change sitting in a car, especially with trousers, so I did the obvious thing and stood behind my car to do so. I had my trousers off when, with no warning, a police car drove quickly into the park and pulled up in line with my car. The two officers got out (apparently for a cigarette break), immediately saw my status and came over for 'a chat'. I looked somewhat sheepish and was about to offer an explanation when one of the cops smiled and told me that I was a bit early for the 'entertainment'! Not quite understanding, I pointed to my open bag and told him that I was just getting changed for an evening out and had no intention of staying, with or without an audience.

I was clearly believed and told to continue, but advised that there had been a number of complaints of indecent behaviour in that and other local parking areas and that, had it been a little later and darker, I would have been treated with greater suspicion. I was also told that 'watchers' were known to lurk in the trees overlooking the parking area, either to spy on unsuspecting courting couples or to be entertained by flashers and others who knew they were there. (I believe the current term for such conduct is 'dogging'.)

Lesson learned; no harm done - but it made me wary of misbehaving in the car later with my date!