Topics have not yet been covered in this forum?.

[Amanda]

What are they and can we have some?.

[t-strap lover]

highheels is always a good topic every time but you have to be careful what you post. It might upset some. another might be the war but thats for another web site.

[johnieheel]

Here's one for you Amanda: Most of us men on this forum love to see women in heels. The rest of the outfit is secondary. What one particular part of clothing would you women like to see us men wear that excites you first of all? (Don't worry, we know it isn't heels. or is it? lol)

[Guest]

well, I'd think that it would be interesting to go in-depth about the overall history of high heels as 1st worn by men & how in what way(s) it changed or evolved might be a better term to @ least try to explain the way they have gone from MEN to WOMEN as the fashion icon of footwear because this really has me confused as to the whole point of this change of gender footwear in the 1st place! I mean I've seen so many styles that might have once been completly male in, say boots, like not just some kind heel height (like perhaps a mere 2 inches) to the length of the shaft (all the styles that are now being sold by HEELS FOR GUYS I think) so in short, I think that it would be good to start talking about this in detail, you know as they say "toss around some ideas" showing some pics from members plus those from these sites would be great. let me know how this goes over with you all. thanks, Brad:smile:

[fastfreddy2]

Here's one for you Amanda:

Most of us men on this forum love to see women in heels. The rest of the outfit is secondary.

What one particular part of clothing would you women like to see us men wear that excites you first of all? (Don't worry, we know it isn't heels. or is it? lol)

The answer my wife would give, is suit, and preferably, a 3/4 length frockcoat style Morning Suit. [Often seem over here at weddings with 'tails', or worn by Funeral Services staff.]

I've no doubt if asked, she'd admit to seeing the irony in wanting me to wear a FROCKcoat.

In case there is any misunderstanding of English <by anyone>.

Frock=Dress [as in: A dress.]

Irony=Satirical coincidence.]

[r1g0r]

I HAVE A NEW TOPIC!

it's here somewhere <i swear i put it in this bag>...

here we go:

DEAD LESBIAN BIKER NUNS FROM HELL, IN DRAG, AND THE MIDGET WRESTLERS WHO LOVE THEM!

<or is that something i saw on "springer". now why can't i find my license?!?>

anyway, THAT'S my $.02 worth!

<hope that's what they needed.>

[Marcus]

Topics have not yet been covered in this forum?

Even non-heel related, nor fashion-related?

[Amanda]

Even non-heel related, nor fashion-related?

Marcus I think heel related would be best don't you?.

Though there are plenty of others I'm sure

[johnieheel]

I HAVE A NEW TOPIC!

it's here somewhere <i swear i put it in this bag>...

here we go:

DEAD LESBIAN BIKER NUNS FROM HELL, IN DRAG, AND THE MIDGET WRESTLERS WHO LOVE THEM!

<or is that something i saw on "springer". now why can't i find my license?!?>

anyway, THAT'S my $.02 worth!

<hope that's what they needed.>

That sounds perty sick.

[thedesigner]

Ok then amanda... whats the turning point between men in heels / related fashion (e g nails) being "oh wow!" and " oh yuk!"

[Amanda]

Ok then amanda...

whats the turning point between men in heels / related fashion (e g nails) being "oh wow!" and " oh yuk!"

I don't understand what you mean

[fastfreddy2]

I don't understand what you mean

How far could a man go in feminising himself (plucking eye-brows - clean shaven - manicure - spray tan) before the looking good "wow", would turn into something ghastly?

For example; adding ......

False eye-lashes?

Lots of bright eye-shadow?

Skirt?

Heels?

I think the query was to find out what feminine attributes a man might get away with, and you still find him attractive?

Where is your line on good/bad taste or style?

This may be seen as an unfair question [kinda puts you 'on the spot' as it were] if you think it's directed at you personally, but I actually expect it's a general question to everyone.

I've made the question clearer, as I live close enough to understand late-night Watford-speak. And even then had to have two goes at the question myself.

....

[roniheels]

OK here is a topic. Let's just play pretend for a moment and this is aimed at the ladies, but gentlemen, please feel free to comment. As we have heard from some of the ladies, they don't prefer men in high heels. OK, what if all of a sudden one day we woke up and you saw Josh Hartnett, Brad Pitt, Eric Bano, Collin Farrell, Jason Statham, and other "macho type" celebrities wearing high heels with their male oriented outfits. Then more and more high profile "manly men" celebrities started wearing high heels as regular fashion, and even feminine high heels. OK ladies and gentlemen, and especially ladies, what is your reaction?

[Histiletto]

Most of all these subjects mentioned as new topics to cover have been posted to some endless degree in other threads and the subjects like Jerry Springer would bring up usually have little to add, because he deals with the absurd and base desires of society. That is not to say there isn't anything worth noting from the likes of the Springers, it just that there should be more positive spins to human behavior. We all know how to be angry and show our hatred and prejudice. Learning to work together is more rewarding than the over used criticizing and the displays of bigotry. We rehash these topics because they are always in our faces. As we continue the quest to spread high heeling for all that choose to do so, let us continue to join together in the common feelings heeling does for each and every one of us.

[crotchboots-m]

as far as where the line is drawn...there are a lot of non-western cultures that dont even allow the women to wear a lot of that stuff. so maybe we(meaning the "liberal" west) arent as troglodyte as we tend to think.

[tightsnheels]

And in some cultures it is the men who dress up, wear make-up etc...while the women are the boring dressers.

Now where is the infulence on our styles from those countries when we need them?

T&H

[r1g0r]

How far could a man go in feminising himself (plucking eye-brows - clean shaven - manicure - spray tan) before the looking good "wow", would turn into something ghastly?

For example; adding ......

False eye-lashes?

Lots of bright eye-shadow?

Skirt?

Heels?

I think the query was to find out what feminine attributes a man might get away with, and you still find him attractive?

Where is your line on good/bad taste or style?

<end of portion pertaining to my comments>

....

this question is one i think only answerable by either hetero women or gay men.

i know that i am my own worst enemy & critic when it comes to my clothes, especially my shoes.

[bootsforme]

I'm kind of new to this board, but I haven't seen a "root" topic in the discussion board like this one: "What have _you_ been doing to help spread the acceptance and availability of your favorite footwear?" I think, in general, people have to take an active role in spreading acceptance. It won't just happen on its own, I don't think. It would be nice to see a continual, small list of things that people have done over time. For example, I just sent a note to customer service at one company to thank them for having sizes up to USA 12 and for making very comfortable footwear. And I told them that I bought 2 pairs and would have bought a third if the inventory was available. Anyway..... thought it would be a good idea.

[Ninanoora]

OK here is a topic. Let's just play pretend for a moment and this is aimed at the ladies, but gentlemen, please feel free to comment.

As we have heard from some of the ladies, they don't prefer men in high heels. OK, what if all of a sudden one day we woke up and you saw Josh Hartnett, Brad Pitt, Eric Bano, Collin Farrell, Jason Statham, and other "macho type" celebrities wearing high heels with their male oriented outfits. Then more and more high profile "manly men" celebrities started wearing high heels as regular fashion, and even feminine high heels.

OK ladies and gentlemen, and especially ladies, what is your reaction?

I belive my first expression would be something like oh noes, gosh Josh what have you done. You broke my heart

After the first shock, and recovering from it, I would propably start paying more attention on what he is wearing and has he changed in any other ways. I believe it would eventually have a less and less affect. And If it would be only thing that changed, Josh would be still same charming himself, it wouldnt matter so much.

My Josh would be still my number 1.

It matters most how you carry yourself while wearing heels and so on.

Jason statham, the transporter in stiletto heels? unlikely

[fastfreddy2]

How deep do you want to go with a debate like this?

What do women (actually) find attractive about men?

Cat.1

On a seemingly superficial level they are looking for beauty, because they want <at a non-superficial level> pretty children. It's nice to be seen out with a man who isn't the worst looking fellow in the room. Clothes and overall style can help with this. A good haircut and some attractive clothes can transform the plainest looking man.

Cat.2

Women like to feel safe. Strength and bravery come high on the list of attractive men attributes. If a man is involved in manual labour, strength is necessary for a long term income. <all other economic considerations aside>

Cat.3

Intellectually, a man who has something interesting to say, better a sense of humour, is going to be good company for many years provided trauma doesn't influence him adversely. Men with a wide range of interests that can involve their S/O (interests are inclusive) will again, be more attractive than a man with a single exclusive interest.

What effect would a man wearing heels have on any of these? I'll propose some difference, but everyone, please feel free to add/refute my suggestions.

Cat.1

In our early relationship period, both men and women are full of rampant hormones, our bodies want sex, historically to keep the species going. More recently recreational sex has allowed more frequent sex with probably (but not always) more partners. This has allowed more experimentation, with both men and women able to kiss more frogs, before they find their Prince or Princess. From 20-30 years old then, experimentation isn't frowned upon and in some circles may even be encouraged. Not every relationship is expected to last for ever, there's a lot of latitude in fashion acceptance amongst those who might have an interest.

That said I doubt many women would find a man wearing non-masculine attire, actually attractive. Women do like 'pretty' men, but not effeminate men. Long eye-lashes and full lips are good. Your boyfriend wearing a skirt is never going to be an easy thing to explain to your girlfriends, unless men wearing skirts is typical in your social circle.

I'm not sure pioneering fashion statements are expected from older people, or welcomed. There some notable exceptions and lifelong style icons are the best known. Zandra Rhodes and Vivienne Westwood both wear their own creations. Men tend to go for more conservative stylisation. [More subtle accents.]

Recently I've been able to reduce my spreading waistline. High heels have gained me some height. Both giving me a better look <overall shape>. The wearing of heels would not be acceptable to many of my age group however. From a distance my 'look' is okay, but doesn't stand close inspection.

In conclusion, there may be some initial advantage, but on balance, heels have an adverse effect.

Cat.2

As a reminder, this category is about strength and bravery. As I've mentioned before, women wearing high heels is about them becoming more alluring. Longer/slimmer legs being the obvious advantage. There is also the physical handicap of wearing HH. Effectively a form of 'soft-bondage' it handicaps the wearers efficient walking, and certainly (for most) will prevent them running. For a psychologist, it'll indicate submissiveness.

A man wearing heels just isn't going to seem very gladiatorial to a woman (or a man). If there is one single aspect of men wearing heels that's going to be disruptive to a relationship, I believe it's going to be the weakening of the mans ability to look strong/brave while wearing heels.

I'm getting away with wearing heels by making sure I'm not seen as someone trying to feminise themselves. I'm interested in wearing heels because I enjoy the way they make me feel when I wear them. [Which has very little effect on my hormone level ~ sadly.] This is also true of me <wanting to> wear tight skirts. I doubt I have the shape to carry it off, but I like the feel of wearing one. [Got a good memory....]

The only time I look like a workman is when I'm in the garden or decorating. Any other time I look clean and tidy. More recently I've kick-started my interest in clothes. Jury's out on where that's going. To most women of my age, me having a pulse and still being fit enough to walk in a straight line un-aided, is a major advantage....

Cat.3

A sense of humour or other intellectual stimulus can hide many failings. One of the plainest looking people I know [a three/four] managed to marry my wayward ex [seven/eight] based almost entirely on his humour. Poor complexion, goofy teeth, no sense of style beyond "if it comes in black I'll take it". They've been together for what must be close to 20 years.

I'm sure small anomalies like wearing high heels can be completely ignored by anyone who actually enjoys being with the wearer. Again, this is where I score points. I'm a cheap date, but I'm seldom boring. From the little I've been told of other men HH wearers, their partners too are accommodating because their relationship is good enough for it not to be anything like a deal-breaker. The partners may not find it attractive as such, but it's part of the package, and liking the overall package they are inclined to go with it.

This category does have a special attribute, in that someone strong here, can over-ride some of the problems of Cat.2 with regard to financial stability. If your long-term income isn't dependant on physical strength but artistic or intellectual prowess, then problems of de-masculinisation are mitigated. I expect at least one of our better known members falls into this slot.

Obviously I haven't written this just to keep my fingers busy on a keyboard, I've written because I believe it all to be true. However the test of it's accuracy, is a "contrast and compare". Contrast to men's experiences possibly, and compare to the actual desires of women.

I welcome responses, no matter how contradictory.

....

[Arctic]

I think your observations are pretty accurate and I share them.

[Ninanoora]

I disagree and agree some parts. but now, ouchies my brain hurts.. I see the 3 different categories with their explanations as very vague generalizations. Buts it's still 2 more categories than men "need".

[benno]

Freddy you are brilliant!

[fastfreddy2]

I disagree and agree some parts. but now, ouchies my brain hurts..

I see the 3 different categories with their explanations as very vague generalizations.

Buts it's still 2 more categories than men "need".

Maybe one is enough, though it makes for an incomplete picture?

I'm trying to involve everyone in the debate (if there can be one) anyway. We all recognise few men (if any) will still look manly if hobbling around in 6" stiletto's, leaving it at that, makes the situation so simple as to appear trite. There can be trade off's, and I know this because I have one, as do several others here.

You have yourself given this consideration [however unlikely might be the case]:

After the first shock, and recovering from it, I would propably start paying more attention on what he is wearing and has he changed in any other ways. I believe it would eventually have a less and less affect. And If it would be only thing that changed, Josh would be still same charming himself, it wouldnt matter so much.

The suggestion is, you would 'trade off' some of the manly appeal of Josh, against the pleasure you have from being with your "number 1".

My wife is no different. Several others here enjoy the same 'trade off' at home too.

I happen to think this is a sign of a (very) healthy relationship. Compromise wouldn't be possible from someone unless they liked and loved their partner enough to do it. I suspect (as I don't know for sure) relationships that couldn't manage this compromise, might be fairly fragile anyway.

Put in a mercenary way, the men don't have enough points in category 1 and category 3 to tolerate fewer points in category 2 and still maintain the relationship? Do you see why concentrating on one category alone hides too much else going on?

Anyway it's a debate. I'd appreciate responses that support (maybe with anecdotal evidence) or refute (again with personal history), how this may or may not have worked for anyone?

...

[shyguy]

I've been thinking that very long post over, and here's my take. No.1 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, everyone looks good to someone. This is true or else most people would be single if everybody was looking for just the same looks. We all like different shapes of people, different features attract us. No.2 As for bravery, yes some women look for a protector but some don't as they are independant and self confident. It's another case of horses for courses, the categories are too generalised (neccessarily so as the shades of grey in this discussion would fill pages of text.) no. 3 This should have been called personality. Personality only comes into the equation if things go past the external looks of a person. If nobody sees beyond the skin deep then personality would count for nothing anyway. I think all the above would be considered by most women before starting any relationship longer than a one night stand. As for where shoes fit into it, my wife cites category 2 as her main reason for being against me wearing heels. I lose something of my masculinity. fastfreddy will be able to confirm, I am not a small feminine build at all but this is still a main factor for my wifes concerns. As ff states, if the relationship is strong enough then compromises can be reached, but if there are other concerns in the other areas then things will fall apart. A relationship is like a building it needs strong foundations to survive all the storms.

[fastfreddy2]

Some related reading:

http://www.hhplace.org/discuss/guys/5274-careful_wives.html

http://www.hhplace.org/discuss/guys/4768-moving_ahead.html

It will take you about 15 minutes to read both threads completely. They are interesting reading in their own right, so worth making the time for.

[bootsforme]

Most women that I know like "Take Charge" sort of men, regardless of whether they are gentlemen or "bad boys." It's the leadership that they are attracted to. And while they may have an initial attraction to someone who dresses well, it's still that sense of leadership that they like. That partly explains the very average looking guys who sometimes "win the girl."

[raymond.nl]

Cat.2

Women like to feel safe. Strength and bravery come high on the list of attractive men attributes. If a man is involved in manual labour, strength is necessary for a long term income.

Strength these days is not just physical, but more and more psychological. The strength that resides between the ears is also the strength that brings in more money.

Woman want their man to be able to stand up for them, and not (just) physically harrass an assailant.

Wearing heels (with pride and confidence) is also a token of not being afraid to stand out and of living your own life.

I've found that the more intelligent women are drawn to this psychological strength more than physical strength.

My 2ct.

[fastfreddy2]

I've found that the more intelligent women are drawn to this psychological strength more than physical strength.

My 2ct.

No surprises there. I doubt there are many professional women who would be prepared to introduce their husband 'the labourer' to work colleagues. I doubt it would be an attractive prospect, even if he looked like Richard Gere.

I personally think relationships work better if the female part of the relationship is the smarter one of the pairing. A remark based on personal experience and observation.

[Allu(M)]

Hey Guy's Why do you write "What woman wants?". Every lady is individual and has her own needs and "kicks". If woman A does B then woman C does D - rubbish. Let women tell why she choose him/her or just pet. I am not rich, not handsome, not Bob the Builder, not Scharzenegger, not Brad Pitt, not Chris Rock, not Dalai Lama. But I know how to act among different people to make them feel comfortable, but I don't small talk about Tax Laws (my job). Sometimes my wife don't understand my jokes att all. Somebody here has seen a picture of my youngest girl and told me that child is beautiful . And she really know something about beauty. All odds (3 categories) were agains me, but I still won. If I was CD and my wife would say that men wearing high heels is embassasing to her among other people I would follow her advise and wear more normal dress code. Short time "metrosexual" phenemena don't have an effect on me.