Grins? Giggles? Really? Reality?

[ilikekicks]

Im doing this as I attend local Town Hall Meetings bi-weekly and certain things were said and I made a reflection of sorts.

 

There was a supposed ' shooting ' this past week in California, U.S. . I say ' supposed ' as everything being stated and the person whom killed these people shot 2 of his victims. We need forget he stabbed 3 and ran over quite a few others with an expensive BMW car. But a stipulation is put out that the guy is a ' shooter '.

 

Im a schmuck, a ' guy whom wears high heeled shoes '. Such a thought, no?

 

I opened my web browser today and one of the headlines was of a woman stoned to death in Pakistan. Her ' crime '? She married the guy she loved. She was going to the courthouse with her husband and her family was waiting for her. They were going there because her father told the authorities she was taken without consent ( Theirs, not hers! ).. when she admits she freely went with her ( now ) husband.. The family turned on her and used bricks from a local construction site. The Father supposedly did the most damage and was arrested for killing his own daughter. Such a GREAT example of parenting! It would be one thing if this was a rare event, but 800+ incidents of such happened in the year 2013 in Pakistan. Thats over 2 women a day killed.. for..

 

Im a guy whom wears shoes with high heels? I guess that really is something important? I dont believe my folks would have ' bricked ' me for the shoes I chose. Well.. for other reasons, maybe, but not the shoes.

 

 

This one will pump peoples blood pressure up a bit, funny thing is though, its about medical insurance.. er.. ' health care '.

 

States are now finding the number of people jumping on the medicare bandwagon to be going up rapidly. The States themselves didnt set enough funding aside to cover these costs so.. wheres the monty going to come from? To top it off with the icing on the cake, this past holiday weekend when nobody was paying attention, the New York Times ran a piece on page A12 by a guy named Robert Pear : " Many employers had thought they could shift health costs to the government by sending their employees to a health insurance exchange with a tax-free contribution of cash to help pay premiums, but the Obama administration has squelched the idea in a new ruling. Such arrangements do not satisfy the health care law, the administration said, and employers may be subject to a tax penalty of $100 a day — or $36,500 a year — for each employee who goes into the individual marketplace.

The ruling this month, by the Internal Revenue Service, blocks any wholesale move by employers to dump employees into the exchanges. "

 

So.. A law was written promising all these different things.. we could keep our doctors, costs would go down, your plans wouldnt get cancelled, there would be some small fines, Doctor-Patient privacy would be maintained..

 

Im just a guy, a nobody, whom wears some nice looking shoes. Seriously.

 

So.. Im at this Town Hall Meeting. Some of you know, I'm trying to get involved on the local Town Counsil and I was there to take in what people had to say and offer what I could to all those there.

 

One of the patrons asked ' Are you a Mexican American? '. Yes, I have darker then most white peoples skin would be. I farm and am on a tractor for quite a few hours in the sun every week ( that might have something to do with it ), just like most of the people attending this meeting.

 

" No, Im just an American ".

 

' Are you a minority ? '

 

" A what? A -minority-? WTF kind of question is that? Im just a guy, whom lives out here, helps on a farm growin crops, riding horses, riding tractors and playing a guitar pretty loud once in a while. I was born here in New York, how can I be a mexican-anything? "

 

This woman was sooo offended! I guess I cant count on her vote this November, such a shame! Im surprised she didnt ask me if I was an ' undocumented worker ' or whatever term they are calling people like me today! Imagine that, I do agricultural work, know spanish and have a darker skin tone then most.. I ALMOST FORGOT! I have a low-rider truck too! All I need is a pair of those long curly toed boots and to put up a LaRaza emblem on the front of my pole barn!

 

And to think, many guys are worried about people seeing them in a pair of shoes.. like the kind half the human race wears without any issues at all..

 

Guys : The riducule any of us might recieve for wearing heeled footware is quite miniscule and even laughable in comparrison to the HUGE picture of whats really going on. Dont give it a second thought, put on some kicks and go out and strut. 

 

Do it. Enjoy it! Your not cancelling anyones Medical Insurance. Your not stoning anyone to death. Your not stabbing 3 people, running over a couple more with a nice car and then shooting a couple more. Your not causing WW3 and adding more names/people to be remembered on the next Memorial Day.

 

Your just wearing a pair of shoes!

 

Best wishes to you all, keep it in perspective!

-ILK

[meganiwish]

 

 

Best wishes to you all, keep it in perspective!

-ILK

Hear hear!  How nice to see you back!  Am I right in thinking that you've had a rejuvinative puff just as I've had a rejunvinative slurp?  L'Enfer, c'est les autres.

[ilikekicks]

 

Hear hear!  How nice to see you back!  Am I right in thinking that you've had a rejuvinative puff just as I've had a rejunvinative slurp?  L'Enfer, c'est les autres.

 

Nope. Ive just had the pleasure of being busy with tilling and planting close to 12,000 acres of corn, potatoes, soy beans, tomatoes, carrots, lettuce, strawberries, onions..

 

Not to mention the chase for a Town Council seat.

 

Ive just been too busy to do much of anything and today I finally had a chance to use a computer. Life without one was actually quite nice!

[meganiwish]

Nope. Ive just had the pleasure of being busy with tilling and planting close to 12,000 acres of corn, potatoes, soy beans, tomatoes, carrots, lettuce, strawberries, onions..

 

Not to mention the chase for a Town Council seat.

 

Ive just been too busy to do much of anything and today I finally had a chance to use a computer. Life without one was actually quite nice!

So we're all round to dinner at your place in a few months   It sounds like you're a regular Tom Good http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Life_%281975_TV_series%29  Are you certain you want a seat on the Town Council?  But good luck to you. Your town will have a councillor who cares, with the courage of his convictions.  I have just the slogan for you: 

 

"Dare to be a Daniel,

Dare to stand alone.

Dare to have a purpose firm,

Dare to make it known."

 

It's very you.

[Dr. Shoe]

Ok, I get your point ILK, I really do and it echoes stuff I've been saying for years. What I don't get is why are you Americans so against health care that's free at the point of need?

 

Just last Monday I went A&E with a pulled muscle in my back. Within an hour I was on my way home again having seen a fully qualified doctor. I didn't have to pay for this nor do I have medical insurance.

 

It sounds exactly like you guys have a few bugs in the system but I'm sure as soon as they're ironed out you will see how great it is not to have to worry about going to the doctor when you need to and whether your insurance is paid up.

[AZShoeNut]

Interesting. On a personal level I ran a similar argument with my wife. My brother in law (BIL) worked for Sheriff Joe Arpio. Joe Arpio is one currupt, media driven bully who will take every opportunity to get on the evening news. My BIL got into trouble, Joe had him pasted all over the evening news, we bailed him out, went with him to court dates, helped bm find and pay his lawyer, and worked to keep him from jumping off a bridge. As this was going down and we were all very supportive to him I asked my wife something to the effect of, "Your brother did this, hurt these people, we support him anyhow, but I still gotta hide my heels? No support for me?". At that time I still didn't bridge the gap. Things are a little bit better now days, however. Best, Larry

[SF]

i love "free" stuff……  as long as YOU pay for it…..

[Bubba136]

I'm with Sf. I love free stuff, too. And the next thing I expect our Gov't to do is open your place to me and let me take any of your things that I want because it isn't fair that you have so much and I got nothing. You greedy thing, you.

[ilikekicks]

Ok, I get your point ILK, I really do and it echoes stuff I've been saying for years. What I don't get is why are you Americans so against health care that's free at the point of need?

 

 

 

Im going to be technical in these regards so it might be understood not by *you*, but by *everyone* whom might be as confused as yourself.

 

I have nothing at all about people caring for their health or ' health care '. What I have a problem with is going after the Medical Insurance Companies and calling or funneling it all under the term ' Health Care '.

 

I have ' Health Care '. I would say, with the amount of exercise I do every day working, the amount of fresh air intake I have and eating frash and non-altered foods ( to include non-anti-biotic animals ), I would say my dietary and exercise concerns are more forfilled then any of the despot leftists out there crying about ' health care '. They wont use the term ' medical insurance ' as most people *WERE* pretty content with what they had.

 

A FEW ' tear jerking ' examples were put forth to draw the bleeding hearts out in droves to attack a system that actually WORKED for 80-90% of all people.

 

Some examples I find funny with this ' new, less working system '.

 

- I have to pay for pre-natal care. Im convex, not concave. Sure, I wear heels but dont have a vagina. I have no need for ' pre-natal care '.

- I have to pay for all kinds of sexual needs now. Purple pills like viagara. I have to pay for birth control measures.. The wife and I are actually trying to do the opposit. Ive been trying ( without success ) to breed that woman for the last 6 months. Yet, Im forced to pay for a system thats stated to support being against breeding.

- The Policy I had covered Chemotheropy, TWICE. It wasnt a cheap ordeal yet I received first class service. That policy was 300$ a month CHEAPER then the one I have now and I didnt have any waiting times nor did I have the IRS involved giving me a colonoscopy. 

- I had choices before. If I didnt like something, I could drop what I was paying for and subscribe to something else. The firm I used for the company I ran did policies for small businesses with less then 10 employees. For a total of 16 people ( families of those I employed ) and the 5 of us ( owner/employees ) it was roughly 1400$ a month. Another policy of 800$ a month covered all their vision needs ( optometry ) and a nice dental policy was also acquired.

 

It would run me over 5000$ a month to run the same policies Today. Ass that to the other costs of vehicle maintenances, mandatory costs by the state of N.Y. for ' workers compensation ' ( The insurance policy for medical already had this covered! ) and the tax on the policy for workers comp.. for ONE employee, it was almost 3300$ per year and the state forced a 18% tax PER POLICY per employee!

 

People were appalled when to fix a crack in their plaster ceiling cost over 1000$.. 

 

Its not ' Health Care '. Theres a much larger picture that is being dismissed and people whom support ' ACA ' or ' Health Care Reform ' really need to open their brains up and look at the whole picture, not just a couple of hard-cases.

 

"Just last Monday I went A&E with a pulled muscle in my back. Within an hour I was on my way home again having seen a fully qualified doctor. I didn't have to pay for this nor do I have medical insurance."

 

Tell that to the people whom are presently going to the V.A. medical centers. For myself to see a primary care Physician, I have to wait almost 6 months. With my private policy, even for a service connected disability, I can be seen tomorrow, now, whenever I want.

 

The V.A. is 100% run by the Government and is under a LOT of heat right now. Due to funding ( and other reasons ), The V.A. was delaying people from treatment or scheduling an appointment. MANY have died due to this. Im supposed to be happy with Government being involved in my medical needs? Why? My odds are MUCH better in a private system.

 

People whom arent from the U.S. often say how great their system is yet they have *never* experienced any others. Your are denied such a liberty from birth to grave! You gave it away, freely, and say how great such a system is. Have ANY of you from outside the U.S. been to the U.S. for ANY medical needs? Is the whole statement of how ones system is so great nothing more then a rather limited personal experience with no experience outside of what is being touted as ( supposedly ) great?

 

People from all over the world travel here to receive specialist attentions. Roswell of Buffalo and ECMC locally to me both have areas of their website dedicated to Canadians as they FLOOD our hospitals. Its not uncommon to see their parking lots full of plates that are from Ontario.

 

Most Canadians praise their system as you just did yours. Yet, there are cars that exist physically flooding those parking lots.. 

 

Im not saying your system or that of Canadas is a slouch, but why are all those cars from another country here in the local hospitals parking lots? I ask Canadians that question all the time, they become offended, tell me how bad the system here is, then walk away pouting. all I did was asked a simple question.

 

The truth of it all is that Canadas system is absolutely horrible endless you have an immediate life threatening factor. There ARE waiting lists for a basic MRI. The comparison of technology of the 2 systems is unreal. Its like a mini-cooper trying to race a bugatti veryon over a 20km distance.

 

People complained about ' access '. People stated only the ' well to do ' had all these great policies and ' economic inequality ' hurt the poor in achieving a good Medical Insurance Policy. Such simply wasnt true : Heres why :

 

If you WORK, you eat. If you WORK or try to achieve something, your efforts will be recognized. MOST employers that offer good benefits ( BENEFIT : Something given in addition to a paycheck, its not mandatory as the despots have mislead people to believe ).

 

I didnt care what color someone was. I even had a woman working with us for a while. Age? Hell the ramrod of my crew ( foreman ) was old enough to be my father! It was about work ethic.

 

The current ACA is a demand from the lazy or inept. People whom believe they cant do any better ( for whatever reason ) and have accepted defeat.

 

This will sound rude, but its very truthful and I say this in all sincerity. YOU have never had a ' choice '. Most of Europe are slaves to their states. You believe you have liberty or freedom ( just as the misguided here believe ), but in actuality, you have a few privileges to give you the notion that you have ' freedom '.

 

The U.S. has caught up with Europe in the absolute sacrificing of our liberties for a more USSR type of system.

 

"It sounds exactly like you guys have a few bugs in the system but I'm sure as soon as they're ironed out you will see how great it is not to have to worry about going to the doctor when you need to and whether your insurance is paid up."

 

Tell that to the IRS when they come calling and take your home. Take your car.

 

You really havent looked into the full provisioning of the whole ACA. It doesnt effect you ( things that dont effect me in other countries dont get my time nor concern in most instances either ). *I* have. Its not over 3000 pages long and absolutely usurps the liberties of all the U.S. citizens privacy and the rights to their properties.

 

If you like your system, keep it. You live in a land that is not of my own nor is it really similar. You might wish it was similar, and many of your countrymen thing the U.S. is a bunch of bigoted cowboys with too many guns whom hates black people and beats up gays.. in actuality, such isnt true.. but the media says it is..

 

I have a clinic meeting next week at ECMC for my hands. I should hang out there and ask those Canadians why they are in the U.S. for medical entities and not in their socialized one? I might actually find an honest answer from a genuine source whom has ( apparently/for some reason ) needed to leave their system and use the one here.

 

Peace to you!

-ILK

I'm with Sf. I love free stuff, too. And the next thing I expect our Gov't to do is open your place to me and let me take any of your things that I want because it isn't fair that you have so much and I got nothing. You greedy thing, you.

 

Remember ' cash for clunkers ' ?

 

There was a whole list of American Products that were supposed ' clunkers ' and what were people able to get that 3500$ rebate for? RICE! Imported products ( all but 1 and it was pretty much mexican made ). Really boosted the economy sending those dollars back to overseas companies.

 

' Free ' isnt. Someone somewhere is paying for someones ' stuff '.

 

 

To get back onto the topic of this thread : Todays news...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/indian-teen-girls-gang-raped-hanged-tree-police-130442304.html

 

"Sex crimes against young girls and women are widespread in India, say activists, adding that females from poor, marginalized, low-caste communities are often the victims.

A report by the Asian Centre for Human Rights in April last year said 48,338 child rape cases were recorded in India from 2001 to 2011, and the annual number of reported cases had risen more than fourfold - 336 percent - over that period."

And I wear high heeled shoes.. I dont think we have anyone from India posting here regularly.. 

Worried about heels when things like THAT are ongoing/present or have been for a decade or longer..

 

Were good guys, put em on and go do what you do!

-ILK

[meganiwish]

As Dr Shoe says, the NHS is free at the point of delivery. I pay for the NHS along with everyone else in Britain, and I'm proud of the fact that if you came to visit us and were unfortunate enough to be in a road accident, say, you'd get treatment without having to pay even though you're not a citizen.It's called being civilised.  It's easier to poke a camel in the eye with a needle...well, you know the rest,

Sorry Ilk, that looks like I'm answering your last post, and I wasn't. You just beat me to it.  Those following the thread, please disregard mine, or put it before ILK's

[Shafted]

Maybe it's free in the the UK, but here in the US you have to pay dearly for socialized healthcare.

 

I personally know people who were devastated by the increased cost if it.

 

Free, my foot!

[ilikekicks]

Maybe it's free in the the UK, but here in the US you have to pay dearly for socialized healthcare.

 

I personally know people who were devastated by the increased cost if it.

 

Free, my foot!

 

Heres what people are finding out and from a source that is VERY ' left wing ' or anti-republican as it gets : Huffington Post -

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rachel-camposduffy/the-misogyny-of-obamacare_b_5404161.html

 

"In 2010, Representative Nancy Pelosi famously said about the Affordable Care Act (ACA) that, "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what's in it." More than half a year into its implementation, American women are finding out that along with their now "free" birth control, the 20,000 pages of regulations includes countless mandates that are making healthcare less affordable, less accessible and less personal for women. 

It's an ironic outcome, of course, since women were supposed to be one of the primary beneficiaries of this new entitlement. Obamacare's intrusions into the patient-doctor relationship are especially paradoxical. Controversial procedures like abortion have long been defended on the basis that "healthcare" is about a special and private relationship between a woman and her doctor. However, now under Obamacare and its mandates and regulations, women are learning that they need to figure out how they fit in the patient-doctor-bureaucrat relationship. Thanks to narrower networks, cancelled plans and more red tape, women are seeing for themselves how Obamacare is forcing their physicians to jump through unnecessary hoops to treat them. And for the millions of women who were forced to give up their plans, the new healthcare law meant many would lose their doctor. After having been promised by the President himself that they could keep their doctor, is it any surprise that 48 percent of women have an unfavorable view of Obamacare? The biggest and most important claim the ACA promised was to lower healthcare costs, but it hasn't. Instead, higher premiums - and especially deductibles - have increased anxiety and uncertainty for women. Since women have more frequent doctor visits than men over the course of a year, they are disproportionately hurt by Obamacare's higher deductibles. They are also the biggest victims of the many negative effects Obamacare is having on the economy and the labor market. With women making up a full 57 percent of all part-time workers, they're being hit harder by the impact of small businesses cutting both hours and employees in order to avoid the snares of the Obamacare law. With less take-home pay for groceries, gas, rent and other necessities, their children are inevitably feeling the pinch too."

 

Its not that I believe in the ' Medical Insurance Industry '. The reality is *I* and 330 MILLION others were BLATANTLY lied to! Make no acceptions, *I* was told I could keep my plan. I was told I could keep my doctor. I was told so many things about how great this ' new ' system was supposed to be and NONE of it is true.

 

Dr. Shoe : Your not seeing the full picture here. You asked :

 

" What I don't get is why are you Americans so against health care that's free at the point of need? "

 

Its the LYING. It just never stops with Government. Even your own has lied to you for so long.

 

*I* and many others believe we should be self accountable. I should be allowed to freely make decisions for myself, for what I wish and for my own needs or wants. I dont need a bunch of liars to try and mandate me nor my lifestyle into what THEY believe is best.

 

THAT is the ' issue ' you are missing here.

 

The WHOLE thing was NOT about getting medical Insurance Coverage for everyone. If so, it would be called the ' Medical Insurance Industry take-over Act ', which the thing clearly is doing and collapsing everything in its wake.

 

What the whole ACA was about : Infringement of Government into the privacy of our lives. They have tied what used to be a freely chosen thing to a death warrant on ones economic well being. All the sorry case examples of people going bankrupt from medical expenses are proving to be NOTHING in comparison to the IRS seizures that are about to take effect because the IRS now has the ( supposed ) ' Authority ' to do so. As has been stated in that linked article, women no longer have privacy with their doctors. HIPA Laws are out the window, The Government needs to know all about your ' well being '.

 

Im sure, there will be leaks of all this ( supposed ) information from the ACA from ' hackers ' and disgruntle individuals. Im wondering how all those men whom supported ACA are going to feel when the publicity of their need for Erectile Disfunction drugs goes on the record. How about when women have abortions and they become a known ' baby killer ' around the town? How about when someone becomes Hep-C or Aids positive and everyone treats them worse then the plague? 

 

Is this ' Fantasy ' or ' Reality '? Time shouldnt have to tell as this is all something that should unquestionably be kept private, but it cant and wont be because Government is involved and a ' Freedom of Information Act ' can draw quite a bit of information out.

 

Are we as Citizens nothing more then cattle in a pasture with tags on our ears, a ' number ' to them?

 

As you claim to be able to walk into a medical facility and everything is hunkie-dory, you also pay 10$ for a gallon of Gas. Your whole life is just taxed. Whatever you do or wherever you go, your being taxed.

 

People cannot even walk in London without hundreds of cameras watching their every move as if they were all a criminals. Its said to be for ' Safety ' or ' The benefit of all '.. do you like being catalogued? *I* dont and feel as your a good person ( from what I know ) that YOU shouldnt be subjugated towards such a thing. You might believe in being monitored but I wouldnt have it for you. I wouldnt have your phonecalls tapped/recorded. I wouldnt have what you purchase at a store being put into a profile about you. I certainly wouldnt have your medical history put into a database thats USED to only be accessable by doctors ( and now politicians! ).

 

THAT is the road where the ACA will lead the U.S. to. Even the Unions that fought to elect the Idiot leftists that put the ACA into realization are now being subjected to it after being LIED to and told they would be exempt. They now want heads to roll and people fired. Think of the Irony of Labour Union's endorsing Right-Leaning candidates or Republicans?

 

While you speak of ' Health Care ' which is people caring about their own health, you havent realized the full picture of whats REALLY happening.

 

No tin-foil-hat on my head, I dont need one and anyone whom looks at what really happened with that Bill ( now law ) will see it clearly for what it is. Its supporters need those hats. Medical Insurance is NOT ' Health Care ' for as much as people wish to interchange the 2 terms.

 

I wont claim to know of anything in regards to YOUR system. Its irrelevant to me as I dont live in the U.K. and I feel the People of the U.K. should decide for themselves what they wish to have. I would hope the People of the U.K. would be as honorable to reciprocate the same.

 

The ONLY people whom fully support the ACA are people whom feel worthless and defeated OR those whom can accept the harmful lies they have been sold and never could see the truth for what it is.

[Shyheels]

We certainly do have plenty of CCTV here in Britain. On the other hand, you do have the NSA

[Dr. Shoe]

Like I said, there are many flaws in the American system.

 

The main reason why it is so expensive is because people don't want to pay for stuff that doesn't apply to them so therefore in order to get the stuff that applies to you it is more expensive.

 

Take natal care as an example: I don't know the figures but I suspect that less than 10% of the adult population is in need of natal care, probably more like 1%, I don't know. This means that if everyone contributed to healthcare as a whole then 90-99% of the cost of natal care will be carried by the people who don't need it instead of 100% of the cost being carried by the few people in the neighbourhood who need it.

 

Suppose ILK were to fall off his tractor and get run over and seriously injured (obviously I hope it never ever happens). This would mean that effectively he would have to pay 100% of the cost of his care.

 

There are two problems in the US as far as I can see: Firstly, all the hospitals are privately owned by the Health Insurance companies, secondly, too many people have a vested interested in the status quo this makes for a very clumsy, clunky and probably far too expensive NHS type service.

 

I'm not saying that what's going on in the US is necessarily right or wrong. All I'm saying that, in spite of the critics, the NHS works really, really well. We pay for it through our national insurance contributions. For someone on my salary level this is £10.50 a week, that's £546 a year. If I should get cancer, I will get chemotherapy. If I break my leg an ambulance comes and takes me to A&E where it is reset and cased in plaster. I get to see my doctor on the day I need to, I phone up after 8.30 and get an appointment for that day. If I need to go to see a specialist this will normally happen within 2 months and I can choose which one I see. If I need an operation this usually happens within 8 weeks, sooner if it's a life threatening condition.

 

When I broke my collar bone a couple of years ago, they actually called in a helicopter to take me to hospital but it was diverted to a more urgent case. About 10% of all ambulance trips to hospital are by air now. If available they use the helicopter in preference to an ambulance!

 

Oh, and by the way, some of that £10.50 pays for unemployment and for pensions.

[Shafted]

Then let it be an option for individuals to choose, rather than having it rammed down their throat against their will.

[ShoeDre]

This topic would make me laugh if it wasn't so sad.  My wife lived most of her life in the states.  Since she moved to Australia, she has now been exposed to both sides of this debate.  Just like the British version, Australia has government managed healthcare, where we all have access to free medical care.  There is no doubt in her mind that the government managed version of healthcare is far superior to the privatised US version.

 

I'm sorry to say it so bluntly, but the US system is one of the worst systems in the first world.  Most of the people that go broke in the US do so because of healthcare costs.  It is hard to understand how the US system can be defended in any way.  All arguments against using government healthcare fall into two catagories, paranoid and ignorant.

 

The US has a number of aspects to it that are brilliant, such as the separation of chuch and state.  I don't want this to seem like an anti US post.  It's just that unfortunately this point can't be any easier to prove to anyone with both an open mind and the wisdom of understanding other systems.

[at9]

While I agree with almost everything Dr Shoe says, there is a small technical error. The NHS is paid for out of general taxation. The NI contribution is just another tax, it isn't reserved for any specific purpose. If you are a UK resident (or, in mast cases, visiting from an EU or EEA country) you get free healthcare at the point of need. You don't have to be paying NI.

 

The NHS certainly has many problems but overall it's remarkable value for money. I haven't looked up the figures recently but I think the US spends over all about 4x as much per capita on healthcare as we do in the UK without significantly better outcomes. I'll try and find some references for that.

[Shyheels]

Having lived in the US, Australia and the UK i simply cannot understand how anyone can defend the US health care system, let alone believe that it offers better value for money than the NHS or Australia's health care system.

[ilikekicks]

Like I said, there are many flaws in the American system.

 

The main reason why it is so expensive is because people don't want to pay for stuff that doesn't apply to them so therefore in order to get the stuff that applies to you it is more expensive.

 

 

 

 

Not true at all. That is what you have been lead to believe or were misinformed by media sources.

 

The MAIN reason medical treatment is so expensive is Malpractice Insurance. Over a full third of most practitioners costs are from such. Such policies eat about 50% of all costs they have to bill their patients to recoup.

 

I didnt believe such was true until several ( actually 4 ) different Practitioners, Doctors and a Vet all told me the same thing. They need to be insured as everyone wishes to ' Sue '.

 

Tort Reform or a cap on damages would have helped keep costs down but here in the U.S. , Vampires.. er.. lawyers get a third of the tally they sue for. They litigated all rational thought out of the equation. They would NOT see ' their incomes ' limited.

 

A woman spilled hot coffee on herself and sued for a million and change. A New Mexico civil jury awarded $2.86 million to plaintiff Stella Liebeck, a 79-year-old woman who suffered third-degree burns in her pelvic region when she accidentally spilled hot coffee in her lap after purchasing it from a McDonalds restaurant. Liebeck was hospitalized for eight days while she underwent a skin graft and a 2 year ordeal of somekind ( I cant remember all the details ).

 

Its STUPID! Its the biggest burdon upon the Medical Industry, yet, its never in the discussion. Its all about being ' fair ' and how everyone needs to share and that there should be equal access for all..

 

Fact is, ANYONE can go to the Emergency Room and see a doctor and receive treatment.

 

 

Take natal care as an example: I don't know the figures but I suspect that less than 10% of the adult population is in need of natal care, probably more like 1%, I don't know. This means that if everyone contributed to healthcare as a whole then 90-99% of the cost of natal care will be carried by the people who don't need it instead of 100% of the cost being carried by the few people in the neighbourhood who need it.

 

Suppose ILK were to fall off his tractor and get run over and seriously injured (obviously I hope it never ever happens). This would mean that effectively he would have to pay 100% of the cost of his care.

 

 

If said incident happened, you would be correct in noting that *I* would be solely responsible for ALL the incursions. The medical expenses, Physical therapy AND the cost of fixing the tractor. Nobody else is using that tractor, out working a field, why should they have to pay for something of my own accord?

 

 

"There are two problems in the US as far as I can see: Firstly, all the hospitals are privately owned by the Health Insurance companies, secondly, too many people have a vested interested in the status quo this makes for a very clumsy, clunky and probably far too expensive NHS type service."

 

Firstly : Health Insurance companies in my area do NOT own the hospitals. The Catholic Health Care system owns about 75% of them. The other 25% are owned by Government and their lackies.

 

"I'm not saying that what's going on in the US is necessarily right or wrong. All I'm saying that, in spite of the critics, the NHS works really, really well. We pay for it through our national insurance contributions. For someone on my salary level this is £10.50 a week, that's £546 a year. If I should get cancer, I will get chemotherapy."

 

You would HOPE such was true. I know of 2 Canadians that needed an MRI and were put on waiting lists. One almost died as they collapsed and were bleeding profusely from their ears and nose when visiting his girlfriend over Christmas here in the States. His girlfriends family rushed him to a hospital, less then 2 hours later an MRI showed he had a tumor in his cranium. He was in surgery within 3 days. If he was in Canada, would he have lived? They delayed his MRI for quite a while..

 

"If I break my leg an ambulance comes and takes me to A&E where it is reset and cased in plaster. I get to see my doctor on the day I need to, I phone up after 8.30 and get an appointment for that day. If I need to go to see a specialist this will normally happen within 2 months and I can choose which one I see. If I need an operation this usually happens within 8 weeks, sooner if it's a life threatening condition."

 

We *USED* to have all those options. Thats what your really missing or the idea has been lost upon you. Such is no longer really a reality. The system in the U.S. *DID* work for a majority of everyone. Now, its heading to shambles.

 

I blew apart my hands last summer. All better now. Ive been thru Chemo, twice. All better now. Im far from bankrupt, live quite well and will actually say with pride that Im in great health compared to many. EVERYTHING you spoke of, was the same here at one point. I know you will find such a hard pill to swallow as you have been propaganda'ed into being told the U.S. system was failed, vile, bankrupted everyone and that it ' sucked '. For a few people , it did ' suck ', but all too many of us were satisfied.

 

Such is why when the ACA was passed, nobody was allowed to see what was really going to happen. They knew if the public saw what Pelosi, Reid and Obama were going to do to all of us, there would be an outcry and their terms in office would have been their last.

 

 

"When I broke my collar bone a couple of years ago, they actually called in a helicopter to take me to hospital but it was diverted to a more urgent case. About 10% of all ambulance trips to hospital are by air now. If available they use the helicopter in preference to an ambulance!

 

Oh, and by the way, some of that £10.50 pays for unemployment and for pensions."

 

Again, I dont believe you know the full extent of whats really going on. What changes are happening and what the outcomes will be. Fact is, if the U.S. Economy tanks because of ( what you call ) " Health Care ", there just might be a global effect. Not good for anyone.

 

 

 

Then let it be an option for individuals to choose, rather than having it rammed down their throat against their will.

 

THAT is the main point in all of it. " Freedom of Choice " has been denied to too many people on the planet. It has so many people blind because they have never experienced actually having a choice at their disposal.

 

Using FORCE of anykind ( in this instance, governmental ) to push people into a ' one size fits all ' is wrong.

While I agree with almost everything Dr Shoe says, there is a small technical error. The NHS is paid for out of general taxation. The NI contribution is just another tax, it isn't reserved for any specific purpose. If you are a UK resident (or, in mast cases, visiting from an EU or EEA country) you get free healthcare at the point of need. You don't have to be paying NI.

 

 

Hold on.. your taxed TWICE.. and your saying its ' free '? Can you further explain this as Im a bit confused. When being ' taxed ', its usually a form of payment. If I wasnt taxed and received a service, it would be ' free to me ' but someone else would pay for it in the full picture.

 

How is it ' Free '?

 

This next rant isnt directed at you AT9, but as a ' general ' statement of my own.

 

I do know exactly ' how ' things become twisted in the whole Medical Insurance ring. Some people call it ' Health Care ', which its clearly NOT. Such is a title that was brought in to remove the word ' insurance '. The theme of ' Affordable Care Act ' is a guise/charade for ' medical insurance industry mandates '. It has nothing to do with us as individuals caring for our health ( which is what health care really is ). We choose what we eat, weather we smoke, if we keep in shape ( or dont ). Medical Insurance is about the money and whom pays the expenses. 

 

Another thing thats ' twisted ' is how people are taxed for something, then say its ' free '. When we are told the same thing over and over for so long and have experienced nothing else as a comparison, we accept things to be truthful. An example would be how the world was once flat. A modern example is how people will say something is ' free ' when they are actually paying for it.

 

To put this on topic with this thread, MANY of the members here are so worried about their family and neighbors/co-workers seeing them in heels.. They wont go outside.. People cannot even grasp the conditioning being put to them in regards to what ' Medical Insurance ' is or that a Tax isnt free.. and they are worried about being seen in a pair of kicks? Thats a very small thing compared to other concerns from my perspective.

Having lived in the US, Australia and the UK i simply cannot understand how anyone can defend the US health care system, let alone believe that it offers better value for money than the NHS or Australia's health care system.

 

The system worked for myself and my employees. It works for many people I know. Now? With the Nationalization process kicking in, most of them are without any recourse and are out in the cold OR shelling out a lot more then they used to.

[meganiwish]

.

 

 

Hold on.. your taxed TWICE.. and your saying its ' free '? Can you further explain this as Im a bit confused. When being ' taxed ', its usually a form of payment. If I wasnt taxed and received a service, it would be ' free to me ' but someone else would pay for it in the full picture.

 

How is it ' Free '?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Free at the point of delivery.  No, we're not taxed twice, we're taxed in many ways, as are all modern people.  I suppose you're income is taxed, and I know the U.S. has a purchase tax.  I can see how Dr Shoe was mistaken.  We have a number of historical taxes.  National Insurance was originally intended to fund the new state pension, in 1908, I think.  It was extended to take in unemployment benefits and finally the NHS in 1948.  There was was once a Road Tax Fund that drivers paid for roads to be built.  These days, though the same taxes are paid, they just go into a central fund that the Government allocates.  By and large I don't mind  tax.  If I'm out at night I'm happy that the streets are lit.  A lot of people paying are at home.

 

I suspect (though I don't know) that ACA provides nothing as good as the NHS, neither would I presume to suggest.  I had to have my heart fixed.  I was very scared, but I wasn't worried about how I'd pay for it.

[Dr. Shoe]

In the UK we do have the power of choice, you can choose to go private and there are medical care companies like BUPA but you have to pay for that in addition to whatever contribution you pay to fund the NHS. It is a choice to pay extra and get a superior service.

 

In a NHS hospital, if you go into A&E there are hard plastic chairs and vending machines for snacks and drinks. In a BUPA hospital you have upholstered chairs, free tea and coffee and often access to free biscuits as well. You don't wait nearly as long for an appointment either. and you will get to see a specialist the next day and a consultant possibly within 24 hours. You can get start to finish treatment within a week.

 

You can join BUPA for as little as (I gather) £30 a month but I don't think you will get any kind of rebate from your tax bill.

 

ILK said:

Not true at all. That is what you have been lead to believe or were misinformed by media sources.

 

I find this to be a very interesting comment!

[Shyheels]

In point of fact it is Americans who are taxed twice, with their income being taxed at both state and federal level (with the exception of a couple of states - three? Four? - which do not have state income tax) And then they have to pay for their health insurance and from what I understand from friends who live there this is no small deal

[ilikekicks]

.

Free at the point of delivery.  No, we're not taxed twice, we're taxed in many ways, as are all modern people. 

 

Your saying all people living today whom are ' modern ' are taxed? There are many whom dont pay any taxes AND are given monies by governments for not doing anything. 

 

 

 " I suppose you're income is taxed, and I know the U.S. has a purchase tax.  I can see how Dr Shoe was mistaken.  We have a number of historical taxes.  National Insurance was originally intended to fund the new state pension, in 1908, I think.  It was extended to take in unemployment benefits and finally the NHS in 1948.  There was was once a Road Tax Fund that drivers paid for roads to be built.  These days, though the same taxes are paid, they just go into a central fund that the Government allocates.  By and large I don't mind  tax.  If I'm out at night I'm happy that the streets are lit.  A lot of people paying are at home."

 

We have ' tolls ' on some roads which the monies collected are supposed to pay for. In N.Y. , the money went to a general fund, along with lottery money ( state run gambeling ) that was supposed to pay for ' education '. Yet school taxes are constantly going up by large margins every year and teh roads arent getting any better. Hell, I went and patched a pot-hole myself this past spring as nothing was being done about it!

 

"I suspect (though I don't know) that ACA provides nothing as good as the NHS, neither would I presume to suggest.  I had to have my heart fixed.  I was very scared, but I wasn't worried about how I'd pay for it."

 

If there was a single-payer system, I wouldnt have much of an issue with it. This 'middle of the road ' crap involving hostile government agencies known for kicking people out of their houses and seizing their properties without even having a Warrant is unacceptable. Either Nationalize teh medical industry and watch medical and scientifical advances plummet OR make it 100% private. None of the middle of the road trash that does nothing more then cause further division and thuggary.

In the UK we do have the power of choice, you can choose to go private and there are medical care companies like BUPA but you have to pay for that in addition to whatever contribution you pay to fund the NHS. It is a choice to pay extra and get a superior service.

 

 

That is where I find it wrong. If someone is responsible and capable of taking care of themselves, they still have to pay for something else?

 

There are much similar instances here in the U.S., especially with Education. The youngest girl in the family goes to a private school. The school has 40 students total. The tuition is 15,000$ U.S. a year. There is a dress code and *strict* rules.

 

I wouldnt risk the life of a child in the Public Zoo er.. education system ( supposed schools ) in my area of the U.S. today.

 

 

In a NHS hospital, if you go into A&E there are hard plastic chairs and vending machines for snacks and drinks. In a BUPA hospital you have upholstered chairs, free tea and coffee and often access to free biscuits as well. You don't wait nearly as long for an appointment either. and you will get to see a specialist the next day and a consultant possibly within 24 hours. You can get start to finish treatment within a week.

 

 

Taking what you said into context, Why cant the ' Government ' or NHS get the job done like the private system does? I dont think the medical procedures are any different. Are the Doctors that much better? Are the facilities that good? What is so different between the 2?

 

I know what the difference is here in the U.S. .

 

When I blasted my hands with the Sandblaster, I went to the Local V.A. as it was the easiest place for me to get to. Straight down the mainline highway. They informed me they didnt have the facilities to treat such a wound.

 

Really? The #1 Government Hospital and the example thats going to be used as a guideline for all citizens care.. not up to snuff for something?

 

They didnt even bother trying to clean up anything. I was tossed some salve, some no-stick gause pads and told ECMC would be the best place to go. They didnt even take my vitals.

 

Think of this.. a person with 2 hands missing half the skin, tendons exposed.. They didnt even offer a ride! They let me back on the road! 

 

 

"I find this to be a very interesting comment!"

 

I said it and will stick by it.

 

 

 

In point of fact it is Americans who are taxed twice, with their income being taxed at both state and federal level (with the exception of a couple of states - three? Four? - which do not have state income tax) And then they have to pay for their health insurance and from what I understand from friends who live there this is no small deal

 

You are quite correct and I can Explain ' Why ' such is accepted ( for the most part ).

 

Europe is a place of many different countries. So is the ' United States '. Each ' State ' has a doctrine or ' Constitution ' of its own. The ' Constitution of the United States of America ' was originally a guideline for the States to Follow. Certain things were to be ' for all ' ( First through 9th Amendments ) and the 10th Amendment left all things not covered to the States themselves.

 

In Europe, there are many different Cultures and Languages. The same can be said of the U.S. . In Texas, they have a differing lifestyle then that of those in Maine. I know The Peoples Republik of New York is BAD, but not as bad as California when it comes to Economic Liberties ( getting very close though! ).

 

The States all had their own varying tax system. Different levels and for differing things.

 

The Federal Government decided to have the IRS come into play and established a hefty tax system of its own.

 

There are MANY people whom feel the IRS is an illegal organization/department of government. 

 

When the E.U. starts to become more complacent, you might find yourself taxed by the E.U. and the U.K. . Time will tell.

[Shyheels]

Well, if you look at the results of the recent European elections there would not seem to be a great deal of complacency around and about the constituency when it comes to the idea of a bigger, more intrusive, Brussels-run Europe

[Dr. Shoe]

Taking what you said into context, Why cant the ' Government ' or NHS get the job done like the private system does? I dont think the medical procedures are any different. Are the Doctors that much better? Are the facilities that good? What is so different between the 2?

 

As far as I can see there are three differences. The décor in a private hospital is far more welcoming and you get through the system about ten times quicker. Many of their doctors are former NHS doctors who have been "headhunted" and now work in the private sector. Obviously they cherry pick people with good reputations. Those are the only differences.

[ilikekicks]

As far as I can see there are three differences. The décor in a private hospital is far more welcoming and you get through the system about ten times quicker. Many of their doctors are former NHS doctors who have been "headhunted" and now work in the private sector. Obviously they cherry pick people with good reputations. Those are the only differences.

 

 

So.. going by your figures.. what ' little ' you pay, plus another 30 a month, one can have a Cadillac-Type package? Why arent people flocking to this system in droves and why hasnt your ' Government ' followed the lead in improving their system to reflect whats viewed as a ' better ' one?

 

The whole point of it is, in the U.S. , the GOVERNMENT has their hands in to many places that they should have NEVER been allowed. People decried ' There ought to be a law!!! ' and now they have too many of them and their liberties are all but forgotten.

 

THAT is what a lot of people are missing and why we have the problems of today that plague us as human beings.

 

To show how bad the whole ' NHS ' in the U.S. is going to be :

 

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/01/if-youre-uninsured-next-year-prepare-for-your-obam.aspx

 

The link is to a somewhat non-partisan website that takes swipes at all things. To show how brain-washed people are in just the common tongue they TRY to communicate with :

 

"Obamacare, in a nutshell, is a complete transformation of how citizens in this country receive and pay for health care. "

 

I dont pay for ' Health Care '. I choose the foods I eat. I exercise. I pay for ' MEDICAL INSURANCE '. This is the same as my vehicles fuel effiency. Its not ' Fuel Economy ', but EFFICIENCY. 

 

People dont understand the basics of how they are duped into submission and have bought off into it.

 

They worry about men whom might wear heels? ROFLMAO!

-ILK

[ShoeDre]

This is incredible.  ILK, you are advocating anarchy in the guise of liberty.  Your reasoning is paranoia.  How can a system where only the rich can have their hands out profiting from the sick needing medical care be good?  No level of competitive based price war will make the price of healthcare as cheap as a government run, non-profit system.

 

I'm sure you won't understand, but at times the good of the community much come first.  Vaccinations are a great example of how misinformed people continue to fight a good that fifty to one hundred years ago people would have killed to have.  You don't live in a country where government healthcare is provided.  If you did, you wouldn't be arguing the way you are.

 

Please understand, I'm making this statement blunt because the facts are out there.  One in two people will get cancer at some point in their lives.  There are many other health issues that arise when you get older.  If you're the lucky one who never needs healthcare later in life, then you should still see your gamble as an attempt to avoid working together with your fellow human beings in creating a better world for those that follow you.

 

I mean no disrespect in making this argument.  Veritas unum.

[Dr. Shoe]

So.. going by your figures.. what ' little ' you pay, plus another 30 a month, one can have a Cadillac-Type package? Why arent people flocking to this system in droves and why hasnt your ' Government ' followed the lead in improving their system to reflect whats viewed as a ' better ' one?

 

Because the NHS is more than adequate to meet their needs and most people see paying into a medical insurance scheme to be a complete waste of money.

 

 

BTW, in Cyprus they have a similar system to the one we have here except that you'd see your GP in the morning, a specialist that afternoon then a consultant the following morning. If it turns out that you need an operation then you could be on the operating table that afternoon!

 

At least that's how it used to be...

[ilikekicks]

This is incredible.  ILK, you are advocating anarchy in the guise of liberty.  Your reasoning is paranoia.  How can a system where only the rich can have their hands out profiting from the sick needing medical care be good?  No level of competitive based price war will make the price of healthcare as cheap as a government run, non-profit system.

 

 

Only the ' rich '? Paranoia? ' Guise of Liberty '.. Whos campaign are you working on, certainly not mine as I dont wish to deploy ' divide and conquer ' messages.

 

What I am advocating for is people being allowed to choose for themselves, not some force of law onto everyone when clearly MOST people dont wish for it.

 

You want ' cheap ' as the Government runs? Tell that to those dead Veterans and the mess thats presently going on right now. THAT is the medical system for EVERYONE in the next 3 years. MOST of the Veterans I know ( myself included ) despise the V.A. system and would wish it upon the Taliban!

 

My reasoning is Paranoia? Not at all.

 

My ' Reasoning ' is from my Experiences. From wearing a uniform, running a business, working with musicians, working on a farm.. I can say I have quite a smorgash-board of a life in my journeys and the 1 factor that always ruins productivity is when someone wishes to force an agenda upon everyone.

 

 

" I'm sure you won't understand, but at times the good of the community much come first.  Vaccinations are a great example of how misinformed people continue to fight a good that fifty to one hundred years ago people would have killed to have.  You don't live in a country where government healthcare is provided.  If you did, you wouldn't be arguing the way you are. "

 

 

 

The ' Good of the community ' over the liberty of the individual. Such was done under Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao.. *I* wont understand? Apparently you feel everyone should decide for everyone else and nobody should be allowed to choose for themselves? Honest question as you sure seem to be on the ' Socialistic ' side in your views thus far.

 

You are stating I dont live in a Country where ' Government health care '.. You are correct. The proper term is MEDICAL INSURANCE. I have explained this in an earlier message, I would ask that you go back and take a read of it, it might make you re-think what your saying.

 

 

Please understand, I'm making this statement blunt because the facts are out there.  One in two people will get cancer at some point in their lives.  There are many other health issues that arise when you get older.  If you're the lucky one who never needs healthcare later in life, then you should still see your gamble as an attempt to avoid working together with your fellow human beings in creating a better world for those that follow you.

 

I mean no disrespect in making this argument.  Veritas unum.

 

 

Please understand this fact : Im running for a local office and my position is quite against what you ' preach '. Make no mistakes, the advocacy for more government intrusion pushes infringement unlike we havent fully seen. *I* understand this, its not a hard concept to comprehend.

 

YOU should choose if you wish to have a form of *MEDICAL INSURANCE* for yourself. Its YOUR body, and belongs to YOU. You can choose to care for your health or not. YOU can choose whom you love, where you wish to live, what profession in life you wish to follow SO LONG AS you offer the same to all others and harm nobody else in the process.

 

That is NOT ' Anarchy ' as you have stated and it is NOT ' Paranoia '. Its TRUE LIBERTY as we all should be entrusted with until we harm others or are seem ill fit to have it.

 

I have spoken with a few people that take the same stance as yourself in the debates I have had. They say and use the SAME exact talking points/words. Most of the time, after they are corrected, they sit their quietly and look at those around them and find they are a minority of opinions and dont bother to disturb those around them.

 

"I mean no disrespect in making this argument.  Veritas unum."

 

None taken. I understand you have a position you believe in. Theres NOTHING wrong with it outside of your feeling people should be FORCED into a system they dont want. That makes those people nothing more then a *slave*.

 

When people are given real liberty and then look at what your position implies, they believe they made the correct choice in saying ' I can do things for myself, Im not worthless, I can be productive. Im a free human being whom is entrusted to make my own decisions ' and they enjoy not being parented by elected officials and their schemes nor pundits whom wish to push themselves onto others.

 

Ask yourself : If I wrote a law saying the Government had to provide ALL farmers with the best John Deere and Case equipment out there, at YOUR expense? Is that good? What about someone buying a new car they have worked and saved for only to have the keys taken and given to someone they dont know to use ( and it comes back smoked in with beer spilled all over the seats, banged up and the engine makes a knocking noise.. )? Thats ' fair ', right?

 

Where does the ' Cover all ' statement of ' Good of the Community ' end? When is it satisfied enough? When can such a thing end and people be allowed to live their lives, unhindered outside of their own limits? When can people be allowed to excel and reap satisfaction in what they do without worrying about having to surrender it all because someone else demands it?

 

Fact is ' Good of the Community ' has been used as a blanket statement for many decades.. and the prison population grows.. the National debt grows.. broken families of single parents grow.. education numbers dwindle.. you mentioned something about paranoia? I believe the figures speak for themselves.

 

Im a Libertarian, you follow a Democrat type of Theology. We wont agree on much at all. I believe in individuals whom believe in others without having to FORCE people to do so. I believe, when given free choice, people will choose to get along and do good things for each other as they would wish for themselves. I do not believe people need to be pushed around and forced onto a ' plantation of ideas ' by a political party.

 

Peace to you!

-ILK

Because the NHS is more than adequate to meet their needs and most people see paying into a medical insurance scheme to be a complete waste of money.

 

 

BTW, in Cyprus they have a similar system to the one we have here except that you'd see your GP in the morning, a specialist that afternoon then a consultant the following morning. If it turns out that you need an operation then you could be on the operating table that afternoon!

 

At least that's how it used to be...

 

 

Nothing wrong with that. 

 

My WHOLE point is : A single-payer type system COULD work in the U.S. if done correctly. The ' Old ' system wasnt as bad as all the leftists screamed. 2 bouts of Chemo , my hands and other ailments over the years.. I and many that I know never had any problems. The system had a good success rate in comparison to many of the other systems in the U.S. ( Education comes to mind! ).

 

This ' New ' middle-of-the-road system with the ' Authority ' its given to the IRS is going to absolutely Bankrupt America and put a bad dent in the worlds economy.

 

People are already seeing their costs double and even triple for the same or less services then what they had 3 years ago.

 

Just to say how bad this is going to be, by a reference, look at how it was started.

 

The U.S. house of Representatives had a vote. Some were given bribes in ' project monies ' for their home States to vote for this. Others were allowed to vote last as they waited till they had enough votes for it to pass, this allowing those facing tough re-election campaigns could say ' I didnt vote for that! '.

 

This Bill ( at the time it was a Bill.. ) was almost 3000 pages, and nobody was given a chance to even read it. My local Representative at the time said he would get me a copy before it was voted on.. SHE was never given a copy of it before it was voted on! She was a democrat too! The people whom passed the damn thing!

 

So the Bill moved to the Senate.

 

The senate didnt have the votes so they used a process called ' Reconciliation ' and attached it to a framework of items. If the process didnt work, major breakdowns in all the systems would have happened.

 

The Senate requires a 60-40 vote in order to pass. The Reconciliation process passed it by a 51-49 vote with one of the senator being one of the people from the House whom voted on it as a Representative ( ad now they were a senator ). There were more bribes and back scratching for sure..

 

Then after 3 years, they couldnt get a single website working correctly. As a comparison, the U.S. ramped up for WW2 and provided half the planets armies with everything they needed to defeat Nazi Germany in the same time span! Were comparing a website to a whole war empowerment for the planet, same timespan.. 

 

The more it goes on, the WORSE it gets. The Media will say things are going better, more smoothly, more people are jumping onboard.. 8 million people signed up, how many plans were cancelled? I was told I could keep my doctors, not true in my instance, nor for my plan because it didnt have birth control! I cant have kids, what do I need that for? I dont need my breasts checked, I dont have any.. so my plan wasnt considered ' up to snuff '. It worked for Chemotheropy and blasting the skin off my hands, but because it didnt have things for women in it.. its no good?

 

Im convex, not concave, Mr. President!

 

Not that he would even have the closest idea to the differences between such..

 

-ILK

[meganiwish]

ILK, you are advocating anarchy in the guise of liberty.

 

 

Anarchism is liberty, no guise needed.