Middle Age And The Miniskirt

[Cali]

One time many decades ago, 70 students needed to choice between somebody in a suit and tie, and me in a t-shirt and shorts. Those that picked the suit later told me they made a mistake.  It's what's in your head, not what clothes (shoes) you have on. I've seen many many men try to hide in a suit.

I wear suits for funerals and contract negotiations.

[CrushedVamp]

52 minutes ago, Cali said:

One time many decades ago, 70 students needed to choice between somebody in a suit and tie, and me in a t-shirt and shorts. Those that picked the suit later told me they made a mistake.  It's what's in your head, not what clothes (shoes) you have on. I've seen many many men try to hide in a suit.

I wear suits for funerals and contract negotiations.

Maybe, but I have seen the opposite as well.

I once worked at a powerplant and decided since we had a locker room I was going to dress nice to the place and back. While on shift I would be in blue collar clothes but not to and from the house. Not a suit and tie kind of look, but dressed nice like my wife and I typically do while we are out and about, or going to a doctors office or something, On the second day of dressing nice, management came and asked me if I would be part of management.... TWO DAYS! I turned them down because I have no interest in that as I like what I do, but it was an interesting social experience.

Granted it could be just a coincidence, but I don't think it was. When you dress nicely, you do feel better about yourself instead of feeling frumpy, but you also project a sharp image that resonates with people.

I am never about being fake. My wife and I get accused of it all the time, but we are actually the opposite, while we are dressed sharply, we don't dress for attention, we dress because of how it makes us feel. But I get it, someone sees us dressed sharp and they make assumptions. That is just human nature.

[pebblesf]

9 hours ago, Gige said:

Your MIL and my father are about the same age and based upon that which you have wrote here and my own experiences, it seems that "it's a generational thing" is the most appropriate way to explain it.  My father has always been about 'neat and tidy' appearance and what ever may have not fit in with his view of that was considered messy and not welcomed. 

Thanks so kindly - always appreciated!

Hmmm, seems like your Mom's mom, and my Mom were similar.  I don't want to say that the men/boys in my family could do no wrong in my Mom's eyes, but her daughters could surely do no right...My sisters are truly amazing people, and I will always be sad about my Mom's poor relationship with them.  I am thankful that my Mom seemed to soften a bit during her final days, and did spend a nice week with my oldest sister before passing, but there are still scars....

[CrushedVamp]

On 2/1/2025 at 7:57 AM, pebblesf said:

Hmmm, seems like your Mom's mom, and my Mom were similar.  I don't want to say that the men/boys in my family could do no wrong in my Mom's eyes, but her daughters could surely do no right...My sisters are truly amazing people, and I will always be sad about my Mom's poor relationship with them.  I am thankful that my Mom seemed to soften a bit during her final days, and did spend a nice week with my oldest sister before passing, but there are still scars....

That is too bad.

I saw this very same thing with my ex-wife and her mom. No matter how she tried it just was never good enough, yet my ex-wife kept trying for the impossible, hoping.

It has ruined her life. I brought her out of that saga for ten years, but then she got sucked right back into trying to please her mother. It was not just our marriage that got ruined, but several before ours, and she has a trainwreck of a life just because she tries to placate her mother. Deep down inside she knows she never will, but she keeps trying...

Sad.

[pebblesf]

7 hours ago, CrushedVamp said:

That is too bad.

I saw this very same thing with my ex-wife and her mom. No matter how she tried it just was never good enough, yet my ex-wife kept trying for the impossible, hoping.

It has ruined her life. I brought her out of that saga for ten years, but then she got sucked right back into trying to please her mother. It was not just our marriage that got ruined, but several before ours, and she has a trainwreck of a life just because she tries to placate her mother. Deep down inside she knows she never will, but she keeps trying...

Sad.

You have hit on the worst problem for sure:  "but she keeps trying".   My oldest sister selflessly took on the role of looking after my Mom when she relocated near my sister in Florida.  We were blessed that my Mom enjoyed at least ten years of independent living before serious decline at the age of 90.  Once that happened, my sister's role became important, doctors' visits, shopping, having Mom over for meals or visiting her in the assisted living place.  I am happy that my sister gave up on seeking affection or praise from my mother, just absorbed the criticisms and ignored them.  My sister's life became a fishbowl for my mother to criticize.  Toward the end, my sister expressed regrets about not having Mom live with her and her husband.  I shut that emotion down quickly reminding my sister that her life would be unbearable if Mom lived with her.  My mom is the one that should have regrets.   

Once my Mom decided to forgo any further blood transfusions, I think her "defenses" fell away, and she enjoyed a nice week with my sister before passing easily.  I was fortunate to be able to spend share Mom's final hours with her.  I wish I had known my Grandparents, would love to know just what happened in Mom's life to make her that way.  By all accounts, my maternal Grandmother was a delightful woman, who was very nurturing.  Often wonder about my Grandfather.  

In the end, I am thankful that my sister has benefitted from years of counseling to deal with all the negative emotions about my mother.  Just wish I understood what caused my Mom to act this way towards her amazing daughters....  Jealousy perhaps...  Who knows...  Our family is screwed up/dysfunctional for sure.  But, I always remember that phrase about "whatever doesn't kill you, actually makes your stronger"......

[Cali]

My sister has that position now with my mother in assisted liviing now and over100 y.o.  I've learner how mean my mother could be towards her daughter. One granddaughter wont visit her again.

My ex-wife was that way, I was never right, if I did A she would complain why I didn't do B, if I did B, she would complain why I didn't do A, if I did A and B, I was still wrong. The key word here is Ex.

[pebblesf]

1 hour ago, Cali said:

My sister has that position now with my mother in assisted liviing now and over100 y.o.  I've learner how mean my mother could be towards her daughter. One granddaughter wont visit her again.

My ex-wife was that way, I was never right, if I did A she would complain why I didn't do B, if I did B, she would complain why I didn't do A, if I did A and B, I was still wrong. The key word here is Ex.

Good for you indeed.  It is to no one's benefit to continue a relationship like that.  The "war department" needs to learn to "pick his battles" for sure.  After awhile I just tune him out, then I'm in trouble for ignoring him!   Aside from raising kids, keep a relationship going/healthy has got to be the hardest job there is.  Needless to say, my parents suffered the same constant bickering...  I know they really loved one another, they just did not now how to love one another...

[Puffer]

On 1/29/2025 at 1:32 PM, Shyheels said:

Yes there are a lot of boors in the world - wearing sweatsuits and pyjamas to to their shopping, and I saw an article last week where airlines in the US are now bringing in dress codes for passengers - with such challenging demands as no travelling barefoot. I can’t even in my wildest dreams imagine heading off to the airport barefoot to catch a flight  Apparently it’s done often enough to require a rule. ...

One does indeed see some cringe-making fashion choices - by both sexes - at the supermarket etc.   But the suggestion of an airline dress code is sure to be controversial, given that (in the UK at least) most people only fly when they are going to or returning from a holiday overseas - with little need of more formal clothing, and a luggage allowance that usually requires 'holiday clothes' to be worn in transit too.   Go to any UK airport in the summer months and the women (at least) will nearly all be barefoot, in either sandals or trainers; sensible footwear when feet swell aloft.   I'm not sure why the established casual (and increasingly often not-so-casual) fashion of barefeet in sandals should be regarded as objectionable.   Or is the aim to prevent flying without any footwear at all - which I would agree is both unsightly and unsafe?

[Shyheels]

No, they are talking about bare feet - no shoes, unshod, dirty calloused feet. They are not concerning themselves with sandals. The fact that people need to be told to put something on their feet when they are going to fly is dispiriting.

I don’t wear shorts out and about anyway, but I cannot ever imagine flying in shorts. I don’t think smart casual is too much to expect 

[Cali]

Sorry,if I'm flying into Honolulu or I'm island hopping, I'm most likely in shorts. If I'm flying between Gatwick and Edinburgh in July, then I'm in long pants (and a thick winter coat).

Edited February 8 by Cali

[Shyheels]

Each to their own, but I'll bet when you do travel in shorts you don't look like you just came off the beach 

[pebblesf]

On 1/31/2025 at 11:27 PM, Cali said:

One time many decades ago, 70 students needed to choice between somebody in a suit and tie, and me in a t-shirt and shorts. Those that picked the suit later told me they made a mistake.  It's what's in your head, not what clothes (shoes) you have on. I've seen many many men try to hide in a suit.

I wear suits for funerals and contract negotiations.

So true!

[mlroseplant]

I can say with reasonable certainty that when I'm wearing shorts, I do not look like I just came from the beach. Having said that, I do not think I would choose shorts to travel in. They are fine for cloth seats, but are slimy with leather or vinyl seats after a short while. Also, practicing the organ is almost impossible in shorts. Your legs stick to the bench and you can't move to reach the pedal notes. If one remembers to bring a small towel, 99% of the problem(s) is alleviated.

[CrushedVamp]

For us flying is a little different because we got private planes. Because of clients my wife's family carts around for real estate sales, they keep the planes very clean, but they are also very small planes. Since we are not "out in public" and usually flying into camp via the float plane, we seldom are dressed up. And... as sad a reality as it is, small planes are known for not always flying so we like to be ready for a swim or night stay in the forest after a plane crash. A lot easier to do that in jeans and a t-shirt then be dressed up nicely.

But as much as I like high heels and pantyhose on a lady, I am conflicted with the dress requirements of flight attendant's. I can see where if they make it a career their compression stockings (they don't wear average pantyhose they wear compression tights) helps in the compression/decompression of take offs and landing for their better blood circulation, but in a crash a few flight attendant's have suffered severe burns because their nylons melted to their legs. It would seem to me that due to the unlikely event of a crash for a commercial plane, maybe compression tights would be better?

Thoughts?

[Shyheels]

Possibly a good idea in case if a crash, but crashes involving commercial aircraft are, statistically speaking, vanishingly rare.

[pebblesf]

On 3/1/2025 at 5:06 AM, CrushedVamp said:

For us flying is a little different because we got private planes. Because of clients my wife's family carts around for real estate sales, they keep the planes very clean, but they are also very small planes. Since we are not "out in public" and usually flying into camp via the float plane, we seldom are dressed up. And... as sad a reality as it is, small planes are known for not always flying so we like to be ready for a swim or night stay in the forest after a plane crash. A lot easier to do that in jeans and a t-shirt then be dressed up nicely.

But as much as I like high heels and pantyhose on a lady, I am conflicted with the dress requirements of flight attendant's. I can see where if they make it a career their compression stockings (they don't wear average pantyhose they wear compression tights) helps in the compression/decompression of take offs and landing for their better blood circulation, but in a crash a few flight attendant's have suffered severe burns because their nylons melted to their legs. It would seem to me that due to the unlikely event of a crash for a commercial plane, maybe compression tights would be better?

Thoughts?

25 year cabin crew veteran here.  It was always such a double standard for women...They expected women to have two pairs of shoes to wear while working....Heels for walking around the terminal, and flats for working on the plane.  Some of the uniform pieces and accessories were ridiculous also, such as goofy scarves that would flop around (get in drinks) while trying to serve 160 people.  It was quite obvious that the desk jockies that came up with this stuff obviously had never worked a flight in their life.  As guys, pretty simple requirements, just the usual uniform pieces and being well groomed.  But even the tie for guys in a joke when serving, ends up looking like a dirty napkin after eating barbecue ribs or something messy like that.  I would end up just tucking the tie inside my shirt to keep it out of the way.   I'm not very good at "accessorizing", so all the silly stuff they gave us during the last uniform update got returned when I surrendered my keys/airline ID, all still in the original wrappings...

As far as passengers go, it was hard not to judge folks.  Not fair I know, but normal human behavior I guess.  All I can say is that just because you might be wearing jeans/t shirt/sweats, does not mean you looked sloppy.  You can wear some work out gear properly, and it looks tasteful/just fine.  Same thing with jeans/sweats.  On the other hand, you could show up in a "suit", looking like you just fell off the rack onto the floor at Walmart. Some of the current suit fashions are just awful.  You could spend big bucks on an expensive suit and look like crap.  Tell me those horrible "cognac" colored dress shoes are finally "out of fashion"!    I could just never get over some folks showing up in "pajamas" with slippers.  Just how old are we, three?  Do we really thing that looks good?  Is this truly a fashion thing these days?  They looked like they just rolled out of bed and "showed up", without showering as well I might add.  Admittedly, folks got "judged hard" showing up looking like this.   I guess there were "extremes" on both ends of the spectrum.   

[Cali]

Let's look at this from a passenger's stand point.  Last year, during my return flight from Sydney to LAX and then to my home airport, the 10 AM flight got cancel due to a damaged gasket. Got send to Melbourne. That 3 pm flight got delayed till 3 am. Got into LAX at 11:30 pm with no flights to my final airport till 7 am the morning. So after sleeping in a LAX terminal, I boarded my last flight.  After 40+ hours of traveling, I didn't care what I looked like. All I wanted was to get home and go to sleep in my bed.

[pebblesf]

1 hour ago, Cali said:

Let's look at this from a passenger's stand point.  Last year, during my return flight from Sydney to LAX and then to my home airport, the 10 AM flight got cancel due to a damaged gasket. Got send to Melbourne. That 3 pm flight got delayed till 3 am. Got into LAX at 11:30 pm with no flights to my final airport till 7 am the morning. So after sleeping in a LAX terminal, I boarded my last flight.  After 40+ hours of traveling, I didn't care what I looked like. All I wanted was to get home and go to sleep in my bed.

Totally understandable for sure.  But I'll bet you didn't show up for your originally scheduled flight wearing "pok e man" pajamas, and scraggly flip flops showing off toes/feet that should be kept inside shoes at all times!  Flying can definitely be HELL, I do understand that!

[Shyheels]

As an Australian, and one who travelled an awful lot, I’ve had more than my share of flights that ended up like that. It happened even more often back in the dark age days of the 80s before planes could fly over the Pacific non-stop. Used to have to stop in Auckland or Nadi and then to Honolulu and then on to  LAX. Sometimes they’d stop only once, usually in Honolulu, occasionally in Papeete. I can remember a 12 hour layover in Nadi followed by eight hours in Honolulu. And of course after I got to LAX I still had to fly on to Boston.

Ill be happy not to step in a plane ever again.

[CrushedVamp]

17 hours ago, pebblesf said:

25 year cabin crew veteran here.  It was always such a double standard for women...They expected women to have two pairs of shoes to wear while working....Heels for walking around the terminal, and flats for working on the plane.  Some of the uniform pieces and accessories were ridiculous also, such as goofy scarves that would flop around (get in drinks) while trying to serve 160 people.  It was quite obvious that the desk jockies that came up with this stuff obviously had never worked a flight in their life.  As guys, pretty simple requirements, just the usual uniform pieces and being well groomed.  But even the tie for guys in a joke when serving, ends up looking like a dirty napkin after eating barbecue ribs or something messy like that.  I would end up just tucking the tie inside my shirt to keep it out of the way.   I'm not very good at "accessorizing", so all the silly stuff they gave us during the last uniform update got returned when I surrendered my keys/airline ID, all still in the original wrappings...

As far as passengers go, it was hard not to judge folks.  Not fair I know, but normal human behavior I guess.  All I can say is that just because you might be wearing jeans/t shirt/sweats, does not mean you looked sloppy.  You can wear some work out gear properly, and it looks tasteful/just fine.  Same thing with jeans/sweats.  On the other hand, you could show up in a "suit", looking like you just fell off the rack onto the floor at Walmart. Some of the current suit fashions are just awful.  You could spend big bucks on an expensive suit and look like crap.  Tell me those horrible "cognac" colored dress shoes are finally "out of fashion"!    I could just never get over some folks showing up in "pajamas" with slippers.  Just how old are we, three?  Do we really thing that looks good?  Is this truly a fashion thing these days?  They looked like they just rolled out of bed and "showed up", without showering as well I might add.  Admittedly, folks got "judged hard" showing up looking like this.   I guess there were "extremes" on both ends of the spectrum.   

While I know we are not supposed to judge others, myself I see it as inevitable and more so, is even logical to do. It is how we are wired to operate. We see things, we experience things and then we remember patterns. That can be both good and bad.

On a plane which is the exact same situation repeated and repeated again, with clothes people are wearing being the only thing that really changes, oh for sure you are going to make associations with behaviors and how people are dressed.

As a writer it can be fun to choose to work with these associations or write the opposing for contrast in my characters. For example, if it’s a minor character and my novel is already approaching the word limit, I might just have the typical alpha male so I do not have to describe the character as much and focus on the plot because people have experienced that combination a lot in life. But the plot might alternatively be about a nurse who kills patients by giving them lethal injections and thus also kills the stereotypical a “nurse is always caring” rationale.

Part of that can be what the characters are wearing too. I once wrote a mystery where the killer walked through blood because she was wearing high heels and left triangular prints behind. It ended up being a false clue though because while seemingly it was the suspect that always wore high heels all through the novel, it was actually the hipster who typical wore sandals who did the murder. She only wore heels that night because she was going out on a dinner-date with her husband and was uncharacteristically dressed. But I could have easily changed the gender... what detective would ever think the killer was a MAN wearing high heels?

[Shyheels]

If the heels were size 12 that might be a clue! 😊

[pebblesf]

7 hours ago, CrushedVamp said:

While I know we are not supposed to judge others, myself I see it as inevitable and more so, is even logical to do. It is how we are wired to operate. We see things, we experience things and then we remember patterns. That can be both good and bad.

On a plane which is the exact same situation repeated and repeated again, with clothes people are wearing being the only thing that really changes, oh for sure you are going to make associations with behaviors and how people are dressed.

As a writer it can be fun to choose to work with these associations or write the opposing for contrast in my characters. For example, if it’s a minor character and my novel is already approaching the word limit, I might just have the typical alpha male so I do not have to describe the character as much and focus on the plot because people have experienced that combination a lot in life. But the plot might alternatively be about a nurse who kills patients by giving them lethal injections and thus also kills the stereotypical a “nurse is always caring” rationale.

Part of that can be what the characters are wearing too. I once wrote a mystery where the killer walked through blood because she was wearing high heels and left triangular prints behind. It ended up being a false clue though because while seemingly it was the suspect that always wore high heels all through the novel, it was actually the hipster who typical wore sandals who did the murder. She only wore heels that night because she was going out on a dinner-date with her husband and was uncharacteristically dressed. But I could have easily changed the gender... what detective would ever think the killer was a MAN wearing high heels?

Judging others based on silly things like wardrobe/dress is wrong for sure, but it is human nature unfortunately....Flying today is hell for sure, too many poor folks stuck jammed together in a super tight/uncomfortable space.  It is easy for me to understand how some otherwise nice folks might "lose it" after a fun day at the airport!  When I encountered an angry passenger, it was usually best to just "leave them alone", they will calm down.  Oftentimes engaging with them makes things worse.  They have had a bad day, have been mistreated by the airlines, stuck in weather delays/equipment issues, etc...  Probably already missed the engagement/event they were headed for.  

Where I have always had an issue is selfishness, lack of consideration for others.  Getting onboard a flight, thinking the seas are going to part for your "special needs"/lack of planning/wanting extras for nothing is not going to look good.  There are too many people stuck on this packed flight, all experiencing the same lousy conditions/service etc.  I get it, flying is hell these days..  The seats are way too small and uncomfortable, jammed too close together, it is horrible.  But, we are all stuck in the same long tube, and I have little tolerance for those who refuse to consider the needs/rights of others, It is just not "all about you".  Getting on an airplane unbathed, in dirty smelly clothes, is just inexcusable.  Needless to say, I do understand that there are those that have some issues, regardless of how many showers they might take beforehand.  I do understand that.  But, getting on a plane when you are clearly much larger than a cramped coach seat can acommodate is just plain inconsiderate.  What about the person stuck sitting next to you?  There comes a point where you need to purchase two seats.  Southwest "used to have a reasonable policy".   Prior to boarding, they would bring you down to the plane to see if you could sit in the seat with the arm rest down without taking up space in the seat next to you.  If not, you were required to buy another seat...But, if the flight went out with open seats, you were refunded afterwards...Very fair indeed.  If I was unfortunate enough to have issues that made it tough to sit in one seat, I would buy two seats, no one would have to ask me to do so.  I surely would not want to be humiliated trying to jam into a seat, knowing full well that I was taking up space in the other person's seating area as well

Everyone is so afraid of getting sued, discrimination, etc.  I get it..But, all too often, others needs/rights/considerations are ignored in favor of not getting sued/labeled/accused/filmed/selfied, etc. 

OK, enough of my ranting, sorry.  Don 

[Shyheels]

I totally agree with you. And have a lot of sympathy with air crews who have to deal with all this every day, all day. I remember being on a long flight (I forget where) and wanted another drink. The stewardess came by and remembered what it was I had had earlier. I complimented her on her great memory and she smiled sadly and said she remembered the ones who say please and thank you.

[pebblesf]

1 hour ago, Shyheels said:

I totally agree with you. And have a lot of sympathy with air crews who have to deal with all this every day, all day. I remember being on a long flight (I forget where) and wanted another drink. The stewardess came by and remembered what it was I had had earlier. I complimented her on her great memory and she smiled sadly and said she remembered the ones who say please and thank you.

And she is sooo right,"nice get nice" on the plane for sure!  I was always very complimentary to youngsters who were polite and well behaved also.  I would compliment them and the parents, letting them know they were doing a great job with their kids....  This was so rare, that I made time to say thankyou.    I tried not to lose sight of the fact that flying is indeed hell, especially on our airline.  Deregulation was the beginning of the downward spiral for US domestic carriers indeed.  I'm not trying to excuse the horrible experience that air travel is today, just explain it...  The "interweb" put the final nails in the coffin for sure.  My apologies to all air travelers indeed!