The Last Bastion of Masculinity

[manluvheels]

I think it's OK to hate war.

Ha, I will concede that!

[crotchboots-m]

i love football,but not so much religion. and as far as war goes,sometimes u need to fight them.

[SleekHeels]

Saying men look silly in heels is sexist against women? Society allows women to do masculine things because male traits are seen as confident and stronger and therefore 'better'.

Absolutely. I've thought about this a lot... if wearing heels was just about how I feel I'd just wear them in private and be happy with that, but when society ridicules guys who choose to express "feminine" qualities, they're just perpetuating the myth that feminine means weak. My wearing heels in public is my way of expressing rebellion against that.

If someone sees me and it makes them question their own prejudice then it was worth it - and if I get a compliment that's a bonus and makes up for any negative reactions. A lot of guys look at women like pieces of meat and high-heels just amplify that, and when I wear my heels I'm saying "I'm not a piece of meat, neither is she". Whether your a girl or a guy it's not the heels that empower (or degrade) you, it's your attitude about wearing them, and "acceptance" is all about accepting the attitude with the heels. That's my opinion anyway.

[bladerunner]

Hmmmmmmm 'The Last Bastion of Masculinity'.......got me thinking.....found one in a local cave man pub not far from me......you now the type,the ones with plasters on their knuckles as they cant but help dragging them along the ground as they stumble around! cant really think of any others lol! Gave up reading most of the threads as they seemed to drrrrifffttt offf topic somewhat. Always 'amanda' stirring up trouble lol! at least she knows how to get a discussion going. Everyone to their own opinions and boy does she have them! just remember people its good to have the ladies around to balance the views good or bad. Personally i think i 'look' 50% silly and 50% great but 100% confident and content when i do wear my heels!!! see you've made me go off topic..arrrrgghhhh!

[ilikekicks]

Absolutely. I've thought about this a lot... if wearing heels was just about how I feel I'd just wear them in private and be happy with that, but when society ridicules guys who choose to express "feminine" qualities, they're just perpetuating the myth that feminine means weak. My wearing heels in public is my way of expressing rebellion against that.

Full respect given to your opinion. I am always for liberty to the individuals.

I do have an ' issue ' with what you have stated though, but not why you have stated such.

I posted an article about Justin Bieber wearing womans jeans. Good for him. Theres the whole ' emo kids ' thing.. I know some of those male kids look like girls.. To each their own, no harm at all.

I dont think ' feminine ' means ' weak ', or if such a thing would make anyone ' less ' by any means. Thats the only varying of our opinions that I could see.

[loswabs]

Maggie Thatcher divides opinion more than probably any other politician I can think of, but she was what this country needed the get it off it's arse and on it's feet, be they in heels or not ;o) For sure, she had more balls than any of the men around her.

Anyway, back to the issue of men in heels, of which I am one Amanda, and just for clarification, when does a man in heels not look silly?

Replying to my own post is the height on conceit, but I'm genuinely a bit disappointed and indeed saddened Amanda chose not to answer my question. Oh well, move on.

[Amanda]

Replying to my own post is the height on conceit, but I'm genuinely a bit disappointed and indeed saddened Amanda chose not to answer my question. Oh well, move on.

Please don't be saddened, I missed your post. I haven't read all the posts in this thread.

With regard to your question....I think it's down to your own judgement.

[SleekHeels]

I dont think ' feminine ' means ' weak ', or if such a thing would make anyone ' less ' by any means. Thats the only varying of our opinions that I could see.

Absolutely, I don't think those things either, we totally agree on that I think. I'm just suggesting that some sections of society do think that way, and out choice of footwear challenges/confronts that.

I should stress that while wearing heels is an expression of "feminine" qualities for me, I'm certainly not trying to masquerade as a female... I'm just a man expressing those qualities and "feminine" is just the label put on those qualities. I'm certainly not advocating a "feminine=good, masculine=evil" mindset (which this "last bastion" thing seems to be polarising into sometimes), and if for some guys wearing heels is not an expression of feminine qualities, I totally respect that too.

[ilikekicks]

Note: My thoughts might seem ' offensive ' to some, but this is just how I think :

Absolutely, I don't think those things either, we totally agree on that I think. I'm just suggesting that some sections of society do think that way, and out choice of footwear challenges/confronts that.

Its unfortunate for those ' sections '. Honestly.. why ' sections '? I think the bigger picture is right in front of us all and nobody wants to admit it. To do such will get you tossed right off the planet!

I dont believe in ' sections '. Theres no blacks, whites, greens, yellows, gays, straights, polka-dotted.. Theres just ' people '. Human beings, all that deserve dignity so long as they honor others.

Untill everyone sheds the divisive mindset called ' multiculturalism ' and allows everyone to be seen as an equal member of society with no labels at all, there will always be negative attitudes everywhere as the labels CREATE them.

When people adopt the fact or convince themselves that ' Im a ______ ' ( fill in whatever title you wish ) and segregate themselves from everyone else, there will always be hate/discontent/'sections' or divisions. Apply such to this forum and ask ourselves whats the difference between one PERSON wearing a heeled shoe compared to another? If both enjoy them, great. If someone has a problem with the other one wearing them, they should set the standard and NOT wear them, thus making things truly equal.

We cannot take something for ourselves and NOT allow it for someone else. Doesnt matter if its clothes, a car, what color they can paint their house ( The political side would be whom they might love, what they can/should wear, what part of the bus they can sit on or where they can get a drink from a fountain.. ).. Let EVERYONE be equal and free to choose for themselves.

I should stress that while wearing heels is an expression of "feminine" qualities for me, I'm certainly not trying to masquerade as a female...

Neither am I. I think we are just both being ' ourselves ' and nothing else.

I'm just a man expressing those qualities and "feminine" is just the label put on those qualities.

Why a ' label '? Thats the question that needs to be asked, but I already know the answer. Its really simple.

Your not really expressing a ' feminine ' quality ( My opinion ). Your expressing/showing off something you bought or was given to you.. acquired. Maybe they are comfortable, maybe not?

Its really simple : Your wearing something on your feet YOU chose to. The reasons DO NOT MATTER, what does matter is your a human being and you have made a choice that harms nobody else. For that, you should be allowed liberty to continue to do so as you havent infringed upon anyone else.

I'm certainly not advocating a "feminine=good, masculine=evil" mindset (which this "last bastion" thing seems to be polarising into sometimes), and if for some guys wearing heels is not an expression of feminine qualities, I totally respect that too.

I think before we call ourselves a ' Gender type ' ( yet another label ), we are human beings. We all think, feel and have certain regards towards being alive long before anything else. We recognize each other as a ' human being ' before what gender/color is recognized.

If we see someone walking 200 yards away and notice they have their feet arched, as if they were wearing a pair of stilettos.. Some would say ' Oh, thats a woman.. '. I dont think the odds would be in favor of such if it were a member from here seen from afar. Seriously, its just a ' conditioning ' and a narrow mindedness in design to divide us all.

We would know that person from afar *is* a human being long before their ethnics, gender or anything else even came into play.

We *ALL* need to stop the divisions. Im not without ' sin ', I have some of my own, I work on it daily and try to find some form of acceptance. Its usually a smile and a ' hello ' as I walk by, keeping my comments to myself. No need to ' rock the boat ', thats what I use a guitar and a Mesa Boogie Amp for!

[Charlie]

My wife hates my boxer shorts, but damn it (!) it's my right to wear them if I want to! lol Charlie

[Amanda]

My wife hates my boxer shorts, but damn it (!) it's my right to wear them if I want to! lol

Charlie

Well I'm not surprised, especially with stilettos and hairy legs.

[Tacchi Alti]

Well I'm not surprised, especially with stilettos and hairy legs.

Now then, Amanda, how do you know about the hairy legs? Hotline to Charlie's wife? Anyway, didn't you know it's one of our last bastions? The hair collects the mud from the goalmouth and helps to clog up the showers.

[SleekHeels]

I totally agree we should celebrate our humanity and the things we have in common, but I don't agree that we should homogenize society and deny our differences... it's not the differences (and the labels that describe them) that create negative attitudes, it's the prejudice against those differences.

I believe we should celebrate the diversity of different cultural identities, and accept that these identities are dynamic and ever-changing, not static boxes to confine people. I don't have to be Hispanic to learn to speak Spanish or appreciate the food/music/culture... and I don't have to be a woman to express qualities that I identify with that just happen to be called feminine, and to feel fabulous wearing high-heels as a personal expression of that. There's no expression without labels, we just want the expression without the prejudice.

Back on the topic of bastions... Women don't feel that their identity is threatened by wearing flat oxfords, so why should men feel that their own identity is threatened by wearing heels? Maybe the last bastion of masculinity is bastions. But then men don't feel their identity is threatened by women wearing flat oxfords, so why should women feel that their identity is threatened by men wearing heels?

In the end, the only thing that our bastions are defending are insecurity (which is based on prejudice, not freedom of expression).

[benno]

In reference to my previous post about saying 'men in heels look silly' is sexist against women, I remembered this... I recently read an intelligent magazine article that said gay men and straight women get on because they both have one thing wrong with them... The main premise of the article was why most women have a close gay male friend. The writer's reasoning was that being male and heterosexual was the strongest and most looked up to ideal (e.g movie heroes are usually straight men). Therefore a gay man and a straight woman both have one un-ideal element. The article went on to say that straight men don't usually have close lesbian friends because a lesbian has two thing 'wrong' with her whereas the straight man is perfect. At first the article annoyed me a little, but then I re read it and thought it made some very accurate observations. I guess we all like to give and receive a little charitable attitude in life. If I can find the mag I will scan it and post it, but my girlfreind may have chucked it in the recycling.

[ilikekicks]

I totally agree we should celebrate our humanity and the things we have in common, but I don't agree that we should homogenize society and deny our differences... it's not the differences (and the labels that describe them) that create negative attitudes, it's the prejudice against those differences.

What happens when those ' differences ' become legislated into law and one ' type ' is put before another? ' Quotas ' that everyone has to ' get over ' and look past? Thus why I believe in a ' blanket policy '. Everyone is equal as a human being.

I believe we should celebrate the diversity of different cultural identities, and accept that these identities are dynamic and ever-changing, not static boxes to confine people.

' Cultural identities '. Remember, you must accept the ' bad ' along with the good in saying that.

I don't have to be Hispanic to learn to speak Spanish or appreciate the food/music/culture... and I don't have to be a woman to express qualities that I identify with that just happen to be called feminine, and to feel fabulous wearing high-heels as a personal expression of that. There's no expression without labels, we just want the expression without the prejudice.

If you divide, you will always have the non-acceptance as its being forced upon one ' group ' or the other.

Back on the topic of bastions... Women don't feel that their identity is threatened by wearing flat oxfords, so why should men feel that their own identity is threatened by wearing heels?

We ( you and I ) dont. Were not cavemen, our thinking has evolved ( just as others have ) to realize clothing doesnt make someone male or female.

Maybe the last bastion of masculinity is bastions. But then men don't feel their identity is threatened by women wearing flat oxfords, so why should women feel that their identity is threatened by men wearing heels?

In the end, the only thing that our bastions are defending are insecurity (which is based on prejudice, not freedom of expression).

True.

[SleekHeels]

What happens when those ' differences ' become legislated into law and one ' type ' is put before another? ' Quotas ' that everyone has to ' get over ' and look past? Thus why I believe in a ' blanket policy '. Everyone is equal as a human being.

Sure, I think positive discrimination is just as much as social failing as negative discrimination. Legislation that creates artificial advantages for particular demographic groups is often just a band-aid to make the stats look good for election campaigns because that's the end-game rather than addressing the root of the problem.

Cultural identities '. Remember, you must accept the ' bad ' along with the good in saying that.

You're right. I'd say that "accepting" the bad doesn't mean approving of it, just acknowledging it as a first step to fixing it. I think that by denying our cultural identities we stand to lose a lot more good than bad.

If you divide, you will always have the non-acceptance as its being forced upon one ' group ' or the other.

I believe we can "divide" (i.e. recognise our differences) in an entirely positive way, respecting and tolerating our differences and diversity. The "non-acceptance" only arises when we subjectively map our ethical/moral judgements (our divisions of right and wrong) onto that diversity. Unfortunately some people persist in making those moral projections, believing that guys wearing heels is somehow wrong, or even that wearing heels (guys or girls) is inherrently wrong. Maybe for some that's part of the appeal of wearing heels, but for me wearing heels has been about breaking free of attaching any moral judgement to what is just fashion/style and personal expression.

As you so rightly said before: "all that deserve dignity so long as they honor others" and it's only as I've grappled with the difficulties of being a guy who likes wearing heels that I've come to believe that this dignity is all the more beautiful for its diversity.

I often wonder if some women cling to the "last bastion of femininity" because they spend so much time identifying with masculinity.

... or cling to the "last bastion of masculinity" for exactly the same reason? Perhaps it's not so much that women choose to identify with masculinity, but that they feel they're forced to because things like "success" and "self-worth" are still defined in masculine terms. As a guy, expressing femininity is still perceived as a failure. I think that's wrong.

[Charlie]

Well I'm not surprised, especially with stilettos and hairy legs.

I'm not into stiletto anything but you've got me on the hairy legs charge. lol

Charlie

[ilikekicks]

I believe we can "divide" (i.e. recognise our differences) in an entirely positive way, respecting and tolerating our differences and diversity.

Agree to disagree?

I sent you a PM in regards to this as it appears, were sorta hi-jacking this thread .

Sorry about that folks.

[Dr. Shoe]

great post.

I often wonder if some women cling to the "last bastion of femininity" because they spend so much time identifying with masculinity.

Or indulge in "trouser Tyranny"...?

[Charlie]

Or indulge in "trouser Tyranny"...?

Probably, they hold all the cards. Men can't even skirt the issue in a socially acceptable way. lol

Charlie

[benno]

As a guy, expressing femininity is still perceived as a failure. I think that's wrong.

Exactly what I have been saying for bloomin' ages!!!