The Last Bastion of Masculinity

[Shafted]

Who said this is about you?

Her comment is tasteless and unclassy regardless. Play devils advocate but play with class.

At what point did I imply that this was about me, please be blunt. While her comment was disturbing to some members, I see it as a valued representative opinion of a woman. We may not like what she says, but I think that we all need to hear it. It may be negative towards men in general, but who knows it may be a defining moment in personally evaluating the reasons men are wearing high heels.

Open and candid opinion is how we learn about each other. Perhaps Amanda would be open to a discussion on this topic. I for one woild love to understand why she feels the way she does.

[ilikekicks]

Hmm.. My pea-sized brain is hurting after 10 minutes of thought on this.. Hear me out before deleting this post and sending me another one of those infraction messages in my PM box ok? It used to be said ' A womans place is barefoot, naked and chained to the kitchen '. Eh.. I dunno about that one! I like my women in Stilettos ( They can borrow a pair of mine if need be! ), Lingerie and NOT in the kitchen.. although the kitchen will do for spur of the moment.. Standing to Urinate? Nope. I have seen a woman do such. Really cant mention any kind of employment as everything is all over ( both men and women work the same jobs ). Outside of being a sperm donor, I cannot see anything a woman cant do ( and probably do better ) then men.

[ilikekicks]

Open and candid opinion is how we learn about each other. Perhaps Amanda would be open to a discussion on this topic. I for one woild love to understand why she feels the way she does.

I went and looked at her comments about men looking silly, the hate for religion and football..

In all sincerity, Why even bother with such a thread? From past comments made by her, theres no need to give her any legitimacy on anything as we already know where she stands. Doesnt matter ' why '.

I think your a good guy, excellent human being and open to suggestion. I dont think this is one of those things that needs to be opened like a can of worms though.

[saudade]

I went and looked at her comments about men looking silly, the hate for religion and football..

In all sincerity, Why even bother with such a thread? From past comments made by her, theres no need to give her any legitimacy on anything as we already know where she stands. Doesnt matter ' why '.

I think your a good guy, excellent human being and open to suggestion. I dont think this is one of those things that needs to be opened like a can of worms though.

This qualifies as trolling behavior, especially after throwing religion and whatnot else into the fray.

Here's the deal, either she's intentionally trying to give a rise to all of you just to stir up a hornets nest, or she really believes it.

If its the former, even the creation of this thread validates what she writes. If its the latter, responding with this thread most likely just reinforces her belief that stilettos/whatever are "the last bastion of femininity".

Don't feed the trolls and just employ the one thing you can do, keep on keeping on and enjoying what you want, damn the torpedos full steam ahead. Life's too damn short to waste time on people that don't agree with you or actually wish you spite. Eventually I'll be feeding worms, so I don't think some silly internet argument over shoes matters much in the grand scheme of things.

But whatever, back to debugging things for work!

[Shafted]

I went and looked at her comments about men looking silly, the hate for religion and football..

In all sincerity, Why even bother with such a thread? From past comments made by her, theres no need to give her any legitimacy on anything as we already know where she stands. Doesnt matter ' why '.

I think your a good guy, excellent human being and open to suggestion. I dont think this is one of those things that needs to be opened like a can of worms though.

Personally I don't see it as a can of worms. In regards to her change in opinion, it very much does matter why.

[hoverfly]

I think Amanda is another alternate personality, Anita C. comes to mind.... Naaah..

[vector]

I read an article sometime back that stated that for many years jobs for women were confined to these categories: wife (secretary), mother (nurse, teacher) and art (receptionist).

[Dr. Shoe]

Very nice. you wear lipstick to work? awesome. wish i could wear that and heels more. wife doesnt approve. so only when im alone. i wear lipstick in car on way to work. its an hour ride. if I haveto make a stop then I do it wearing lipstick.

I live full time as a woman. It's no big deal.

[Tacchi Alti]

Amanda has played the devil's advocate on more than one occasion, why should i believe she isn't now.

Come on, don't be played. Sorry I call it like I see it.

Maybe it would be more fair if she played in a forum where we men could contribute. Also, to say men look silly in high heels is one thing, and a personal, harmless opinion she's entitled to (and if we rise to the bait, all the better!) even if it provokes pity for her, but to start bringing in inaccurate and hurtful misandric political and anti-religion statements is going beyond what is acceptable and also cowardly in that she promulgates these views in the Girls forum. However, I'm sure most if not all of the population can chuckle about her mention of football or any such male-dominated sports, just as most would about female-dominated sports such as shopping.

My view is that people are entitled to express their own opinion so long as it is not hurtful to other people, but once it goes beyond nudge-nudge wink-wink teasing or well-understood language - shut up, or I'll kill the lot of you - and actually or potentially incites hatred and/or violence they are not entitled to do so.

For example, if I said 'All women are airheads' I'd probably annoy a few people, but if I accused them of being the cause of unemployment by stealing men's jobs, or said they deserved to be raped because they dressed provocatively, my statement would be not only untrue but deeply hurtful and potentially harmful by inciting people who want a handy excuse to hatred and violence against them.

Go on, tell me I'm over-reacting and I'll crawl back into my hole - my last bastion of protection from the horrible outside world.

[Tacchi Alti]

I thoroughly recommend the books 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' and 'Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps.' You can pick them up on Amazon and other places for very little money, and they do wonders at explaining why men and women often find it very difficult to communicate with each other. I think these books and others like them have saved quite a few marriages! The second book gives an insight as to why there are so few female air traffic controllers.

Sorry for replying to my own post (sheer vanity!) but here's another one which might be thought more appropriate here: Why Men Don't Have a Clue and Women Always Need More Shoes.

These are very funny books but what they say is so, so true and extremely helpful in understanding one another.

[jarod81]

I don't know but i hate war. I highly doubt that most men would want to go to war these days to be honest. But to add something to amandas post, here in Australia there current debate about letting female's in the armed forces on the front line with the men. So how can war be the Last Bastion. Anyway with all the horrible things I see in my job I say to people be yourself, do what makes you happy as at the end of it you might as well be happy and if seeing women in heels or wearing heels makes you happy well then who is it hurting?

[Shafted]

I'm sorry but I am having a difficult time getting upset over Amanda's post, true or not. It absolutely blows my mind that anyone would be offended by her post. Remember that this was posted in the girls forum so it obviously was not meant for us. It's almost like invading the women's restroom to hear what they are talking about. This whole thing is very petty and my recommendation would be to just drop it.

[Roxyinheels]

Nobody is hurting, actually. Of course, it's just an Internet forum. Nobody is going to change anything through a keyboard. But...just there are people who need judge others. So, they build by their own, a leader position in forum. it isn't strange for me. In fact, I come from BDSM and fetichist forums and communities and there always is a VIP club who says what is correct and what isn't. Sad but real.

[Simcity3]

Well if amanda choose to be negative about men in heels i really cant see any problem in it. Some people just have a hard time getting used to people doing things thats not normal where others just are short minded. But like shafted also said i dont see any reason to be upset about it. Its in no way gona affect my heeling thats for sure.

[Foxyheels]

As others have said Amanda has previous for this. However am I the only one who finds her attitue and opinion rather attractive. I so would welcome the challenge of getting her along side me at a football game holding my hand and complimenting me on my choice of heels for the day. Being a happily married man though, means I won't be able to neutralise the snake's venom

[swollen]

As this is a high heels site and not (evidently) a place to debate ethics the 'war is bad' argument feels a little under explored... Modern wars are generally fought to preserve essential freedoms like the ability to live in a liberal democracy, hold varying opinions, vote or even to have untrammelled access to fetish websites, if that's your thing. Members of my family have given their lives on active service to defend and protect such liberty. It's naive to pretend that there aren't all sorts of regimes in which these freedoms are not permitted. Nobody sane 'likes' war. But wars enable peace, that's their defensible purpose. Amanda's original post in the Girls Only section implied that she thought high heels were to some extent the last bastion of femininity and are best seen adorning shapely female legs. High heels and fetish footwear come loaded with multiple, often contradictory semiotic associations. Sometimes they appear to empower the wearer, sometimes to make her seem helpless and vulnerable. It's in the eye of the beholder, perhaps... If a transvestite male wishes to wear female shoes that's up to them. For the rest of us high heels, lingerie and make-up are for girls, and always will be. I'm sure we can agree to differ.

[manluvheels]

Thank you Swollen ( nice to see you back buddy BTW and a new avatar!!!) and everyone for their various dissertations on the matter.

The purpose of this thread was not to diss Amanda's comment but to seek views, humorous very welcome, on the Last Bastion of Masculinity.

There is another thread possibly more appropriate to long theorising and taking her comments far too seriously http://www.hhplace.org/guys/20553-last_bastion_masculinity.html#post289246

Having said that I don't like much of what is being said there so don't take it as a recommendation.

Have a nice day everyone!

[Roxyinheels]

The purpose of this thread was not to diss Amanda's comment but to seek views, humorous very welcome, on the Last Bastion of Masculinity

Running the risk of entering in your bastion, do you really think this bastion is still standing?

[swollen]

Running the risk of entering in your bastion, do you really think this bastion is still standing?

Not when there are Women like You to bring it humbly to its knees, Roxy.

[StormClaw]

A few things come to mind when I read all this and ofcourse like I say to anyone that argues,everyone is entitled to their own opinion Amanda and everyone else.This might be a bit long,and I appoligize if I offend anyone. War is not nice or fun,but nescecary to preserve the order and achieve piece but even with peace there will always be war.Unfortunately I feel that its inbread into men to fight. Perhaps its love- to protect those dearest to you,your wife,children,friends.Id fight and give my life to protect those I love even though Im still single.And that is perhaps why some men go to war.That can also apply to women though. Pride- some men feel the need to protect their pride and honour.If needed I'll defend mine.And this goes with everyones opinions,youre entitled to it,I'll take it into account but don't force it onto me then I feel like your trampling down on my pride and me. Strength- some men are just mentally and emotionally stronger than women.I see it a lot for example my parents,my dad takes so much on him and my mother can only cope with a certain amount of stress etc,its just how she is. Now I got to head to class but thats whats in my heart to say at the moment. Have a good day/night.

[Dr. Shoe]

I think that next time she makes a similar comment I'm going to move it to the Everyone Forum and throw her to the wolves! LOL

[ilikekicks]

If its the former, even the creation of this thread validates what she writes. If its the latter, responding with this thread most likely just reinforces her belief that stilettos/whatever are "the last bastion of femininity".

Well.. if thats the case, that ' last bastion of feminity ' was absolutly destroyed by the vintage WildPair heels on my feet right now.

I think that next time she makes a similar comment I'm going to move it to the Everyone Forum and throw her to the wolves! LOL

Poor wolves.

[mikeheel]

"Here's the deal, either she's intentionally trying to give a rise to all of you just to stir up a hornets nest, or she really believes it."

Um, could it not be both?

[Tacchi Alti]

I think that next time she makes a similar comment I'm going to move it to the Everyone Forum and throw her to the wolves! LOL

Snakes and wolves could be an interesting combination...

See http://www.lastcombat.com/Wolf_vs_Snake.html

[Gudulitooo]

Kneehighs, I just had a look at the whole conversation in the girl forum. I understand in that conversation, they used the word bastion to say "reserved to". For example, Dawnie said "the last bastion of masculinity could have been pants", meaning "pants were the last items to be reserved to men". I thing Amanda's post is hurting a number of women in the world that struggle for their rights, for the rights fo their people, by ignoring them. Not men that wear heels. But in my opinion, the vast majority of soldiers are men, and men are responsible for the vast majority of wars. Religions are led by men, and while I don't know for sure the gods gender in nowadays religions, the profets and representatives are often men.

[maninpumps]

I would bet Amanda is sitting at home laughing her tail off. This is what I am doing. What happened to personal opinions ? We all must respect her opinion even if we do not like it.

[Guest]

Sorry for replying to my own post (sheer vanity!) but here's another one which might be thought more appropriate here: Why Men Don't Have a Clue and Women Always Need More Shoes.

Not sure if the writer knew about us for that line?

Roxy.

We will always adore you (girls) and be in awe.

Al

[benno]

Regardless of whether Amanda is a woman or man or even a construct of HHplace's admin team. I dearly respect her and her opinions and would go so far to view her as a friend, but sometimes it would be nice to drop the men look silly in heels thing. It's not going to stop me liking to wear them. I agree that she's become a little aggressive, but she's probably just playing to a crowd. And also we are always banging on about men in heels. It's perfectly alright by me that some people can't stand the look or idea of a man in heels. What's funniest about Amanda's attitude is that she gives off quite a masculine air, which she uses to great advantage if all she's told me directly and indirectly is to be taken as true.

[Roxyinheels]

Alsheels there are too many women here (and everywhere) who are open minded to men's fantasies and pleasures.....and we are learning from them.

[SleekHeels]

If high heels are the last bastion of femininity, I don't know why I lost count of how many women I saw wearing flat oxfords today (while I was teetering around in my fabulous high heels).

I totally agree with what Dawnie wrote in that thread:

Couldn't pants have been the last bastion of masculinity? I wear them every day and have no plan to stop! I find things only look silly when people not used to seeing them. Everyone should have the same rights. I say let everyone wear what they want as long as it doesn't show things it shouldn't. We will always look better in heels to men who like women.

... because (a) the best thing that ever happened to pants was women, who made them a far more stylish and flattering garment, and ( today I nearly teetered up to one a woman in her flat oxfords to tell her "You look far more beautiful in your boys shoes than I do in my girls shoes" and I'd have meant it most sincerely.

If a man feels threatened by successful women "stealing" his masculinity, while a woman feels threatened by men "stealing" her femininity, in both cases there's no justification for it, it's just insecurity.

I wear my heels as an expression of admiration and respect for feminine qualities as aspirational values for everyone. I don't feel threatened by a successful woman, her success is an inspiration for me, but I do wear heels as an objection to success being measured in masculine terms while femininity is devalued. Thank you Roxy for acknowledging that at least some men wear heels as a tribute to femininity, not to degrade it:

Femininity is traditionally associated with love and sweetness. Fortunately, I see legions of men facing their life beyond these values. They substitute many women who sadly have lost them.

Good for you, guys!!

I wear my heels to say "a woman isn't a sex object, the beauty is in the woman as a person with feelings and emotions, not her shoes", but many men do just see women as sex objects and many women have come to expect no more than that from men. I wear my heels as a protest against that vicious cycle but some women seem to cling to that vicious cycle and perceive that dehumanising themselves to a sex-object is their only source of power... to draw a parallel with a quote of Martin Luther King Jr.: "...that the lie of their inferiority is accepted as truth in the society dominating them".

Perhaps the last bastion of humanity is aspiration - once we've lost that we've lost it all.