sendra45 Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 I am getting fustrated with the amount of updates, viruses and worms affecting Windows. I was wondering if anybody used Macs or Linux. Linux is the easier option for me to try as an alternitive as I can load it on to a PC with out buying an Imac or whatever. Any thoughts would be really welcome. Nigel. The angels have the phonebox.
highheelfan Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 I'm using Linux (Mandrake 9.1) at the moment on my desktop PC. After a bit of tweaking I'm able to do virtually all the same things that I do in Windows. Chances are that when you install Linux one or two things won't work "out of the box", so be prepared to do some fiddling to get everything working properly. But if you're looking for a fast, stable and useable OS Linux is a good choice.
JeffM Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 Nigel Some one told me once that I should buy a Mac because they are so unpopular no one bothers to write virus's for them. Jeff
sendra45 Posted June 26, 2004 Author Posted June 26, 2004 HI, yes, linux does not apear to work 'out of the box' but I will tweak, and yes, nobody bothers to f**k up other operating systems on the same level as Microsofts products. I will let you know how I get on with iether Mandrake or Suse. Nigel The angels have the phonebox.
Tech Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 Hi all... [Nigel... Dont take this personally....] personally I think that everybodies experience with all O/S systems are different, and that each O/s has its downfalls... Personally I have been using windows XP pro for the last 2 years and can honestly say I have not had 1 single crash... My system gets used intensivly for web design and graphics editing along with a wide variety of office applications and database writing as well as some intense search engine reporting and nothing seems to crash it. I run: (hours per day / days per week) - Windows XP pro 24/7 - msn messenger 18/7 - php livehelp for windows 18/7 - office 2003 24/7 - macromedia studio 10/7 - PC anywhere 2/1 - Norton antivirus 24/7 - HP networked 7140xi 24/7 Lots of other software which gets used once or twice a week too... This all runs on a P4 / 2.66ghz with 1gb ddr266 memory and it all costs less than the "average" celeron desktop from the high street so no I have not got bags of money for high quality equipment. I have a wide variety of experience with a lot of O/Systems and can honestly say that I think the main problems seem to be as follows: Self build users: (the following does not apply to all self builders) The main problem with users who build there own PC is that they do not sit down and spend a little time to research the hardware they spend all there money on. They will just pick a system board they can afford giving them features they want for the best price, then buy a CPU they can afford to put on it and as much memory they can afford, and normally some rediculous sized hard drive that will take a week to format (i know this is an exageration) and they want the most expensive graphics card to play there games on.... They will then spend the next 6 months complaining about windows and that how crap microsoft is because there PC keeps crashing... Guys, if your going to build you own PC, get it right and do your research before you blow your money and you will find that you can enjoy hassle free computing for years... Sure every operating system has its holes and bugs and linux / suse / mac are not without theres too but a little common sense and up to date virus protection will ensure you dont have anything to worry about... I have seen so many users who have spent thousands on there PC's and not a day goes buy where they dont complain about windows and I have examined there setup, suggested some changes in hardware and everything suddenly started working just fine!!! Off the shelf PC's The big problem with off the shelf PC's from the big high street stores is that 80% of the software they come with is what cause's the problems. Everything is a "trial version" and expires in 90 days or less and once installed will prove to cause a PC to run at a near standstill. This gives microsoft a bad name as a lot of PC's have this software installed by the manufacturer and so the end user does not get a choice to have it or not... I have also seen many home users sharing there hard drives when they dont have a network, and also taking for granted that the tons of file sharing programs are safe!!! Not everything will work straight out of the box... Software relies on stable hardware and the knowledge of how to use it... If something is not working properly its because the user doesnt know how to use it or does not have the hardware to use it correctly. ********************************************** My verdict will always be to build your own PC but take the time to research your hadware first... Let your brain do the buying not the cash thats burning a hole in your pocket...... ********************************************** To all This is not intended to offend anybody and is an overview from my own personal experience over the last 10 years of dealing with PC's both in the workplace and the home enviroment. Another worrying find I came across in the last 10 years is that the main stream of complainers about windows are mainly all using pirate copies of the software and have never spoken to microsoft on the phone or asked for help - nor have they read anything, they just want to load it up and figure it out as they go along... The reason microsoft products are targeted so badly is because its the most popular - If linux was widely used like windows then that would be targeted too - At least with microsoft products help and support are both a click or phone call away Thanks for listening - Heels for Men // Legwear Fashion // HHPlace Guidelines If something doesn't look right, please report the content ASAP!
sendra45 Posted June 27, 2004 Author Posted June 27, 2004 Hi Richie, thanks for your thoughts, I am sure they will be useful to many. I to am using XP, but what I forgot to mention, and this is the real problem, is that I live out in the sticks and my only connection to the internet is via dial up 56k modem. Now you will understand why I am miffed by having to download patches and stuff. It sounds like you know your stuff, and I take what you say on board. does anybody use any other types of operating system? Nigel. The angels have the phonebox.
shyguy Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 I have tried Linux a few times and only once got it working. I am going to be trying it again soon though as things are getting better with it and with winex even games for directx are playable on Linux, as well as many games having a linux port available (Unreal Tournament 2004 for one). Richie, you're right about home build pcs, a little research can save a lot of trouble in the long run. i have built my last 4 pc's and found out that lesson the hardest way. Nigel, remember different OS's will work better for different things. Think carefully what you are going to be doing, look it up and then make a decision. He was so narrow minded he could see through a keyhole with both eyes. Brown's Law: If the shoe fits, it's ugly
genebujold Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 There are a lot of updates for Linux, as well, though no where near as many as for windows. That's not to say Linux was built to be secure from the ground up, either. Realisticallty, your best security comes from using a firewall, an antivirus program, and an ad/spyware blocker. Here are my picks: Linksys Router Norton Antivirus Spybot Search and Destroy Sorry you live in the stix! The solution for that here in the US is satellite Internet, for about $250 up front and $70 a month. Any options like that on your side of the world?
ShockQueen Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 I too thought about Linux, but decided against it as 99% of the programs I have (web design, 3D graphics, emulators, etc.) are all designed to work just under Windows, plus it's what I'm used to running. I built my last 3 PC's from the ground up, and although I didn't spend time researching the hardware, I can honestly say I've had very little problem running it. I haven't upgraded in a while, so I'm still running and Athlon XP 1700+ (runs 1.47Ghz) with 256MB SDRAM and a 40GB HDD. It does what I want it to, and plays all the games I care to. People say the GIMP program does a lot of what Photoshop and possibly 3D applications do, but sorry....just don't have the time to be tweaking that much right now. I just wish that there weren't SO MANY updates for Windows as I too have only a 56K modem and not enough free cash to get broadband.....yet. SQ.....still busting societal molds with a smile...and a 50-ton sledge!
azraelle Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 For "in the sticks" users I have found that Windows 2000 is more stable than XP, and that Panda antivirus runs rings around Norton (safely removes viruses/worms from the windows kernel that Norton can't even quarantine effectively against the next time you reboot). It is also less expensive. And, it "plays well with others". I've also found that running Ad-Aware, then Spybot S&D, works better than either one alone. Agree with you gene on the LinkSys router though. "All that you can decide, is what to do with the time that is given you."--Gandalf, "Life is not tried, it is merely survived -If you're standing outside the fire."--Garth Brooks
hjt101 Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 I too thought about Linux, but decided against it as 99% of the programs I have (web design, 3D graphics, emulators, etc.) are all designed to work just under Windows, plus it's what I'm used to running. I think your platform choice should be application dependant. I do the Mac/OSX and Linux support at work. The servers require less general maintenance, but when there is a problem, I am the only one who can deal with them. I find the Unix flavors are easier to configure, and you have many more options. The biggest thing is that they stick to the industry standards. Windows seem to bend the standards to fix their needs. Proudly standing in my patent High Heels
JinxieKat Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 I absolutely love my Mac. I got really sick of having to reformat my hard drive every year or so with windows. I also got peeved when I got a virus and windows wouldn't let me do anything because the file infected was notepad.exe. Fortunately I was useing 98 at the time and was able to go into DOS manually delete the file, copy over an uninfected version and then reboot and go on. Then windows came up with this thing that if you reinstall the program over a set number of times you have to call up Microsoft and tell them why to get a code?!? Umm.. no. I bought the program, I can reinstall it however many times I want to and knowing windows, it would be twice a year. Ugh! Best things about my Mac. It never crashes, you don't have to reboot over and over when you are installing items. Pop ups are almost non-existant without haveing to purchase software to stop them. Yes, there are not a whole lot of viruses out there either! (and that was said like it was a bad thing ) Apple is always comeing out with timely security or functional updates that are easy to install. And best of all, it's not windows! JinxieKat
J-Nation Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 Then windows came up with this thing that if you reinstall the program over a set number of times you have to call up Microsoft and tell them why to get a code?!? Umm.. no. I bought the program, I can reinstall it however many times I want to........ Umm, no not quite - Micro$oft will tell you that you only bought a (limited) license to use the programme - you don't own anything! Emma
JeffM Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 Emma Is that like with the Eunos car from the Mazda factory in Japan? You pay out tens of thousands of au$ to buy an owners hand book and they Give you a car to go with it. Jeff
bloodnose Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 Emma's right... that copy of Windows XP that any of you have isn't yours. You've just bought a licence to use it on one machine, and one machine only. I use linux... have done for about 3 years now. It's got me very frustrated at times, but all in all... it's a dream. New hardware is always an interesting experience though. Can often take a day or more before I can get the new thing working. The reason microsoft products are targeted so badly is because its the most popular - If linux was widely used like windows then that would be targeted too With all due respect Richie, I'm afraid that is completely untrue. Apache is the world's most widely used Webserver. It is an open source project, much like linux. However... Microsoft's IIS gets a lot more abuse and attacks, despite it not being the most widely used web server. The reason? It's not made so well. I'm not suggesting that open source software is flawless, but it is made a LOT better. Also to that point, when bugs are found, they are fixed very quickly, and full details of the problem and the fix are made available. With Microsoft, they tend to downplay the situation a lot and then 9 months later, there'll be a fix for the problem, bundled in with a 90MB service pack which is inappropriate for dialup users, and often has reported cases of breaking something else that worked. As for the Linux and Mac versus Windows. I don't know a lot about Macs, so I'll focus mainly on linux here. Windows is insecure by design. Not even gonna dwell on the numerous accounts of where activex has proved fatal for explorer users (gotta love that spyware...) but Windows on the whole, is insecure by design. The reason you don't get so many worms and virus' for Linux is because it's a lot harder to a) make them, and deploy them. When Joe User opens Outlook Express and gets an e-mail from someone he doesn't know, he opens it, and right on that spot, he's screwed. Chances are he's running as administrator, if in the very slim chance he isn't, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a known exploit that the virus will use for priveledge escalation. If Joe User on Linux opens his favourite mail client, it wont run the virus automatically, it would require the user to save it to his hard drive, and run it manually. Windows programs don't work on Linux so we can already be safe there, but in the very slim chance a linux virus comes through, the worst I can think of that can happen, is that it would delete that guy's work. It wouldn't even be able to format the hard drive, since the filesystems that Linux uses are also more secure by design. Also for whatever reason you don't see any self propagating worms for linux. I'm not entirely sure why this is, to be honest. I guess it's partly to do with the method that's required to execute something. You would know very well whether or not you ran it, and you could kill it just as easily. Although I guess it could silently fork() off and hide in the background. Hm, I'm not too sure about that one... My main point here though is that Windows is not a good target because it's so widely used (see Apache comment), but it's simply because it's an easier target. Steven
Mickey S. Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 I must second that. After installation Linux comes with way more restrictions what one can do and what one can't. For Windows (XP even worse than 2k) you have to search your ass off in order to find some useful, efficient info on how to tighten security. Once you quest the Windows' help system you keep getting entry-level-user info. Once you inquire for the more in-depth stuff/terms it just doesn't find any. There's probably an option where to obtain this info and how to install it - but who knows, that might cost you something. The main thing here might just be: Most colorful and easy-click'n'execute. Obviously, they forgot to make it safe over all that fancy stuff... Forget about GUIs when done that way - long live the command-console-screen where you're required to think before you act!!! CU! -Mike
Tom-NL Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 I remember a sigline from Usenet, that went like this: Windows: a 32-bit extension and graphical shell around a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit microprocessor by a 2-bit company that cannot stand 1 bit of competition Windows most popular? Nah, better description would be: "most wide spread" since hardware vendors bundled it with all the PC's they sold. (ever tried to buy a PC without Windows?) They did so because of the contracts they had with m$. Interesting link to some of the exhibits from the most recent anti-trust trial against m$: http://www.courts.state.mn.us/districts/fourth/MicrosoftTrial/ (the link still works at this moment) Oh, it is probably obvious that I don't use Windoze (although I have to at work :-( ).
genebujold Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 For "in the sticks" users I have found that Windows 2000 is more stable than XP, and that Panda antivirus runs rings around Norton (safely removes viruses/worms from the windows kernel that Norton can't even quarantine effectively against the next time you reboot). It is also less expensive. And, it "plays well with others". I've also found that running Ad-Aware, then Spybot S&D, works better than either one alone. Agree with you gene on the LinkSys router though. And here's a good link that appears to be on the spot with respect to the best way to configure a Linksys router: http://www.seoulcc.org/meetings/past_meetings/LinksysPresentation.ppt It even covers all the wireless aspects! It's about 2.3 MB, so it might take a while on your 56k modem... I ran the earlier versions of Adaware and Spybot. Once. After I reloaded my OS and all my programs while recovering from the system crash, I vowed never to do that again. Never did find out what happened.
loveheel Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 I love my Mac laptop. It is a great machine. Especially since OS X ,written on top on Linux, it feels like they gave me my computer back. Everything in the operating is so transparent. You can use it like any other operating system, but when the linux urge grabs you, to do some stuff efficiently (like move files or rename a lot of files at the same time), you can just go in a unix shell and type a few commands to get it done.
Victorias OTHER Secret Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 I LOVE my mac!!!!!! OS X is very smooth..... .when its my time & if i cannot take my mac with me, then I am not going!!!!!!!
Firefox Posted June 30, 2004 Posted June 30, 2004 I'm kind of with Richie on this. I use W98 (OK call me old fashioned!) and it never ever crashes. I sometimes have it running for months. It's running on a top quality IBM machine from the period (1999) which was designed with the system in mind. Opinions do run high either way, it seems to be like supporting a football club but in my experience many computer savvy people have a hate vendetta against microsoft and Bill Gates because he has a powerful position in the market place and the code wasn't open source so the technobods could tweek it to their satisfaction. That may be right or wrong, I'm not advancing the argument either way, but what is unfair is the idea of mercilessly trashing anything made by Microsoft because of the lack of open source and monopoly. There may be many holes or security risks in windows or explorer. But I'd liken it to driving a car. Do you want to buy a car off the shelf for which spare parts and comaptibility are readily available, or do you want to buy the very best car which you have to half-build yourself. The best car is safer, better, but only 1% of the population will be able to build or drive it properly. For the other 99%, the current choice is obvious.
asdf174 Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 I use linux at home. I love it. Has been doing everything windows does now. Only better and faster. Once you have everythign configured that is. It's all good. ~Arron.
sendra45 Posted July 2, 2004 Author Posted July 2, 2004 Thanks for all of your comments, there is a great deal of information for me to digest. I will carry on with XP for now and battle on with Linux. If all else fails, I have a copy of W2k and 98. Nigel. The angels have the phonebox.
chris100575 Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 I've been using Linux for about four years. (Posting from Slackware 10!) My wife teaches IT and has to use Windows for work, so my PC is set up to dual boot. This is also handy if you're learning Linux, as you can reboot into Windows if you like. Most versions of Linux make setting this up pretty easy, even for a noob. Nigel, personally I prefer SuSE to Mandrake. The last couple of Mandrake distributions have been pretty poor by comparison. SuSE are now offering the personal version of their latest release for free download. I you have a fast enough connection you can download it and try it for free. I built my PC, so I made sure that all the hardware was fully Linux compatible, but hardware support is improving all the time. The main problem areas are printers and modems. Some of these use stripped down hardware and depend on Windows to make them work. If you have a "Winmodem" or "Winprinter" you may be stuck. Linux is *way* faster and more stable than Windows, and has much more modest hardware requirements than XP. You're also virtually immune to viruses. FFox: Personally I think that Windows 98 is one of the better versions. Chris (edited for seriously deformed sentence!)
sendra45 Posted July 4, 2004 Author Posted July 4, 2004 thanks,, 98 seems so old, and wont work with some of my hardware, I can see myself buildiing a peer to peer with 98 dialing out and XP doing all the work, When I get broadband I will go Linux for sure. Chris, I have mandrake 10 and Suse 9.0, but no modem to work with them, If I did though...... I would say good bye to microsoft, linux has everything, and for nearly nothing! best wishes to you all and thanks for your help. Nigel The angels have the phonebox.
asdf174 Posted September 16, 2004 Posted September 16, 2004 Personaly Gentoo is my fav. Linux Distrobution. It's all good. ~Arron.
Recommended Posts