heelma Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 I was wondering if there is any fair way to compare how steep a woman of size 9 in a 4" or 5" heel is, compared to my size 14 (US women shoe sizes). Size 9 equals a foot length of 10", siye 14 is about 11.25". When I calculate foot length by heel height, I get: Woman size 9/4" heel: 10/4 = 2.5; for 5" heels = 2. Woman size 14/4" heel: 11.25/4 = 2.8; for 5" heels = 2.25. Is it fair to say that when these quotients are equal, then a size 14 shoe has the same angle as the size 9 shoe?
Dr. Shoe Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 The problem is is that you have counted the toes as part of the foot length and they are normally flat so to calculate the angle you should only take the measurment from the "big joint" to the heel. Moreover, the calculations are complicated further when you consider that a properly designed shoe puts all the weight through the ankle in a straight line to the tip of the heel. Therefore the proper mesurement should be from the big joint to a point vertically below the ankle. Thus approximately: Size 9: 8" (length)/4" (heel height)=2 size 14 9.25/4=2.3125. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
Bubba136 Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 I was wondering if there is any fair way to compare how steep a woman of size 9 in a 4" or 5" heel is, compared to my size 14 (US women shoe sizes). Size 9 equals a foot length of 10", siye 14 is about 11.25". When I calculate foot length by heel height, I get: Woman size 9/4" heel: 10/4 = 2.5; for 5" heels = 2. Woman size 14/4" heel: 11.25/4 = 2.8; for 5" heels = 2.25. Is it fair to say that when these quotients are equal, then a size 14 shoe has the same angle as the size 9 shoe? This question has been asked and answered several times before. If you are really interested why not search the hhplace archives to seek an answer before posing it. I know that, like several other subjects that are of great interest -- especially to new members -- members are truly interested in seeking answers. However, there is nothing new under the banner of high heels that hasn't been discussed ad nauseam. So, while endeavoring to generate conversation and solicit answers, why not search previously posted comments on these subjects, first and then raising the issue including commenting on past answers. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public.
Tech Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 This question has been asked and answered several times before. If you are really interested why not search the hhplace archives to seek an answer before posing it. I know that, like several other subjects that are of great interest -- especially to new members -- members are truly interested in seeking answers. However, there is nothing new under the banner of high heels that hasn't been discussed ad nauseam. So, while endeavoring to generate conversation and solicit answers, why not search previously posted comments on these subjects, first and then raising the issue including commenting on past answers. While some topics have been "done-to-death", the answers to these questions change over time surely?? 5 years ago a Size 9 may have been slightly different, indicating possible changes in demand or changes in manufacturing and/or quality. Shoe sizing can drive you potty because the 1 thing you can be totally sure of is, your foot dimensions in MM or Inches, yet sizes on shoes are never accurate one way or another. Why cant they make shoes like they make car tyres... Length / Width / Bridge Height, all in mm, maybe with 5mm increments, that could totally revolutionise the footwear industry and how footwear is made and sold... Heels for Men // Legwear Fashion // HHPlace Guidelines If something doesn't look right, please report the content ASAP!
Dr. Shoe Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 LOl The problem is you would be introducing yet another system... Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
yozz Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 The only way you get that accepted (and the old systems done away with) if the European parliament would make it a European law. Things like this do happen. In Spain they have slowly converted to European sizes which differ one size from the tradional Spanish sizes. For a while one had to ask which sizing system the size referred to, but now it seems to have worked and people are more or less used to it. In Amsterdam all shoes are sold with 'regular' sizes (like 36-42 for women and 40-46 for men) except for one or two English shoe shops. I never know what size I need. Hence I steer clear of them. The operation to switch to the Euro was far more painful, but in my eyes a success. (Except for that the British, the Danish and the Swedes couldn't get used to the idea). If that can be done..... Y. Raise your voice. Put on some heels.
Bubba136 Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 While some topics have been "done-to-death", the answers to these questions change over time surely?? I guess that is why there is still a "Flat Earth" society. Shoe sizing can drive you potty because the 1 thing you can be totally sure of is, your foot dimensions in MM or Inches, yet sizes on shoes are never accurate one way or another. That is why so many of us counsel to buyers "try them on before you buy them." Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public.
heelma Posted January 17, 2010 Author Posted January 17, 2010 The problem is is that you have counted the toes as part of the foot length and they are normally flat so to calculate the angle you should only take the measurment from the "big joint" to the heel. Moreover, the calculations are complicated further when you consider that a properly designed shoe puts all the weight through the ankle in a straight line to the tip of the heel. Therefore the proper mesurement should be from the big joint to a point vertically below the ankle. Thus approximately: Size 9: 8" (length)/4" (heel height)=2 size 14 9.25/4=2.3125. Good point. For the ballpark, I just wonder if any error arising from the toes would get eliminated through scaling ... I guess the precise way of doing it is to measure the distance from the bottom of the heel to where the ball area of the shoe hits the ground, then also measuring the diagonal to the top of the heel. Again, the real shoe is slightly curved, so it's not a perfect calculation, but the error from the curve can probably be neglected.
sendra45 Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Why cant they make shoes like they make car tyres... Thank god they dont, you should see the tyre fitters around these parts, if the shoe was a bit tight they would crow bar the foot in to the shoe, pick their nose and charge you a fortune coz you got nowhere else to go. The angels have the phonebox.
Histiletto Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 The problem is is that you have counted the toes as part of the foot length and they are normally flat so to calculate the angle you should only take the measurement from the "big joint" to the heel. Moreover, the calculations are complicated further when you consider that a properly designed shoe puts all the weight through the ankle in a straight line to the tip of the heel. Therefore the proper measurement should be from the big joint to a point vertically below the ankle. I am intriqued! Using the weight bearing concept through the ankle, the closer the big toe joint come under the ankle in higher heels, the more the toe joints bear the weight above it. Except the heel of the foot is suppose to counteract or relieve much of that weight from its support, like through the shaping of stilettos, blocks, wedges, and etc. When a bare foot is on the floor, a triangle for weight bearing can be drawn. From your description, it is a right triangle with <A> being the point on the floor directly under the center of the big toe ball joint, <B> is the center of the ankle, and <C> is the point vertically below <B> where the foot contacts the floor forming the right angle of the proper support. When the ankle is raised, point <C> also rises with the foot. So, in my opinion, the best heel tips are positioned vertically under <C>, because the position of the ankle moves more toward the vertical line above the toe joint as the heels get taller. This senario means that measuring the height at the back of the heel of the footwear is more inaccurate, because it doesn't describe the rise which varies according to the size of the shoes. Also, the factor of the arch support must be added, so that the foot isn't on a straight slab to the toe box, especially in the greater slopes, that would lessen the support that is suppose to be borne by the heel.
pussyinboots Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 While some topics have been "done-to-death", the answers to these questions change over time surely?? 5 years ago a Size 9 may have been slightly different, indicating possible changes in demand or changes in manufacturing and/or quality. Shoe sizing can drive you potty because the 1 thing you can be totally sure of is, your foot dimensions in MM or Inches, yet sizes on shoes are never accurate one way or another. Why cant they make shoes like they make car tyres... Length / Width / Bridge Height, all in mm, maybe with 5mm increments, that could totally revolutionise the footwear industry and how footwear is made and sold... Most shoes are now manufactured to the International 'Mondopoint' Sizing System - ISO 9407:1991 (E). Initially used for ski boots and shoes - and military footwear, it has now been adopted by most shoe manufacturers in the Far East, the USA and Europe. Some manufacturers in Europe still use the older 'Paris Point system or the 'Zero Point' system. In the UK, the almost extinct English 'Barleycorn' system is still found in use... 'Mondopoint', 'Paris Point' and 'Zero Point' measures in centimeteres - wheras the old English system uses increments of 1/3 inch. All these systems are meaurements for length. Confusingly - ALL manufacturers use the 'Modopoint' system for measuring width, although the actual designations are different in the UK, Europe, the Far East, Canada and the US. "Good Girls keep diaries....Bad Girls just don't have the time...!:icon_twisted:"
Dr. Shoe Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 I am intriqued! Using the weight bearing concept through the ankle, the closer the big toe joint come under the ankle in higher heels, the more the toe joints bear the weight above it. Except the heel of the foot is suppose to counteract or relieve much of that weight from its support, like through the shaping of stilettos, blocks, wedges, and etc. When a bare foot is on the floor, a triangle for weight bearing can be drawn. From your description, it is a right triangle with <A> being the point on the floor directly under the center of the big toe ball joint, <B> is the center of the ankle, and <C> is the point vertically below <B> where the foot contacts the floor forming the right angle of the proper support. When the ankle is raised, point <C> also rises with the foot. So, in my opinion, the best heel tips are positioned vertically under <C>, because the position of the ankle moves more toward the vertical line above the toe joint as the heels get taller. This senario means that measuring the height at the back of the heel of the footwear is more inaccurate, because it doesn't describe the rise which varies according to the size of the shoes. Also, the factor of the arch support must be added, so that the foot isn't on a straight slab to the toe box, especially in the greater slopes, that would lessen the support that is suppose to be borne by the heel. Precisely. This is why we get a pain in the ball of the foot from wearing heels and those little gel inserts are so marketable. Moreover, on ballet boots (the TLSB ones at any rate) about 95% of your weight goes through your big toe. The best way to measure a heel is the difference in your height between flat shoes and shoe with heels. So, 6'2"-5'10"= 4" heel. However, the figures don't change as dramatically as you would think over 4.5" because the actaul difference in heel elevation reduces as the heel height increases so there's a big difference between 2" and 3" (nearly the full inch) but very little between 5" and 6". This is because of the tendency to measure a heel up the back. However, a 6" heel will feel very different to wear. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects.
roniheels Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 This is all some good information and advice. But like Bubba said, when serious about buying a pair, try them on and walk in them. I have some high heels that are a size 12, and they are comfortable. I have some pairs of high heels that are size 11, and they too are comfortable. And my thighboots are size 13, and I have spent an entire day wearing and walking in them comfortably. We can formulate down to the millemeter, but the bottom line is ... do they fit?
Tech Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 Most shoes are now manufactured to the International 'Mondopoint' Sizing System - ISO 9407:1991 (E). Initially used for ski boots and shoes - and military footwear, it has now been adopted by most shoe manufacturers in the Far East, the USA and Europe. Some manufacturers in Europe still use the older 'Paris Point system or the 'Zero Point' system. In the UK, the almost extinct English 'Barleycorn' system is still found in use... 'Mondopoint', 'Paris Point' and 'Zero Point' measures in centimeteres - wheras the old English system uses increments of 1/3 inch. All these systems are meaurements for length. Confusingly - ALL manufacturers use the 'Modopoint' system for measuring width, although the actual designations are different in the UK, Europe, the Far East, Canada and the US. Thanks P.I.B Thats all new to me, I didnt know any of that... Heels for Men // Legwear Fashion // HHPlace Guidelines If something doesn't look right, please report the content ASAP!
pussyinboots Posted January 19, 2010 Posted January 19, 2010 You're most welcome! Interestingly, the ONLY place I have found that explains the 'Mondopoint' system properly....as they use it all the time....is '6inchHeelsForever'. "Good Girls keep diaries....Bad Girls just don't have the time...!:icon_twisted:"
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