Microchips everywhere:

[tightsnheels]

I came across this article this morning and it got me to wondering about our privacy. It seems like there is always someone who wants to take our privacy away in the name of the public good or in order to sell us something. On a deeper concern though is if law enforcement does start to use this are we the "Women's" shoe/clothing wearers going to be targeted unjustly because we dare to be differant? I don't dare to put the whole story in my post as it is eight pages long when printed but here is the link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080126/ap_on_hi_te/chipping_america_iii;_ylt=ApwxKaN8PPCcF.mOb4h5oLtk24cA

Knowing a great many of our members are in the IT field I feel they could give a great in sight into this technology.

Thnaks,

T&H

[Dr. Shoe]

I've always said that Big Brother doesn't bother me but I think that that is taking things too far. The thing is this will do little to protect us this will only ever be used to target us, can you imagine law enforcement picking up an individual that has just robbed you...? No they will have more important things to do like "clamping down" on tax evasion or individuals that defraud large corporations. Me a cynic?

[Firefox]

Well it's somewhat of a nebulous concept. Say Mrs X buys some heels and then sells them a week later. I buy them off ebay or a charity shop. Am I going to be getting tracked a-new if I wear them, or will Mrs X still be receiving spam based on her purchase. Will she need to register change of ownership of her heels rather like you reregister a car. I don't think it's much to worry about.

[johnieheel]

Great! That means they will also know I'm packing. Americans will NOT STAND FOR THIS! My opinion.

[Bubba136]

I agree with you JH! However, isn't there some version of the same thing already being used when you register with a grocery store that gives discounts to people that belong to their "club?" There is a chain of grocery stores, Piggly-Wiggly Stores, that gives customers who register in their "club," discounts on products. When you register, you provide the company with your name, address and received a numbered plastic card that you swipe evreytime you pay for your purchases. The reason stated by the manager of the store is so that your purchases can be tracked and preferences identified in order to "serve" you better. Then, there is the Boarder's, Staples and Ace Hardware Store Reward Cards, to just mention a few. Also, aren't your purchas tracked every time you use your Master, Visa and Discover Card? So, it appears that corporations are just "refining" the data they already collect. Anyone else have any thoughts on this subject?

[Firefox]

Yes we have the store loyalty cards too. Tesco Club card and Sainsbury reward card to name but two. You get a 1% discount. They never worry me too much. Just get on and shop, life is too short! If you don't want to be tracked, pay cash and don't use the card.

[Dr. Shoe]

Great! That means they will also know I'm packing. Americans will NOT STAND FOR THIS!

My opinion.

That's probably true. I don't think that we'd really "stand for it" here, but will you have too much choice in the matter? What can you do about it? Every thing you buy, even a can of beans will have a chip in them, all your clothes will have them...

Orwell was 30 years early...

[jmc]

It's ironic that we call country "The Land of the Free". We are already the most tracked, catalogued, analyzed and dossiered people on the face of Planet Earth. Our buying habits are already tracked through credit and debit cards while our online activities are tracked through Internet cookies. Go to a store you haven't dealt with before and make a purchase with a credit or debit card. Chances are very good you will soon begin receiving sales flyers from that store -- they tracked your mailing address through the card. Most of this data mining is performed by the private sector to track our buying habits, to target marketing campaigns and to drive product development. But I think the RFID tracking is going to be considered a step too far. For those concerned about privacy, I can visualize the "RFID zapper" -- a device that overloads the RFID tag and burns out the chip to render it inert. It will be available on underground web-sites first, then Ronco will come out with one on the Home Shopping channel (RFID tagged, of course). Then it will hit the shelves at Wal-Mart. Come to think of it, I'd bet an RFID tag wouldn't last long in a microwave oven!

[tightsnheels]

I do agree with the good Doctor that this is really too far, and will not help much in the catching of criminals.

Firefox has also brought up a good point about resale and I for one would think it a lovely turn of events if the marketing companies were totally screwed up by the resale market. We have a store here called Platos Closet where teens can sell off the name brand clothes they don't want anymore. I'm sure this could really bog things down a bit if the same piece of clothes was sold several times to people with very differant shopping habits. Then again what about the clothes given to charity that wind up in third world contries? But the fact would remain the same that for as long as the purcheser had them they would be the ones tracked.

Johnieheel I'm with you 100% as well.

For now I think Firefox has the right idea in just pay cash and don't use the card. But then I rember hearing about the idea of doing away with paper money all together and just using direct deposit and debit cards. Makes one cringe at the thought.

I like jmc's idea as well, could there be an RFID zapper? I really don't think it would be too good for a pair of heels to be microwaved.

Anymore thoughts are welcome on this subject.Thanks,

T&H

PS: I showed this article to Mrs. T&H who is in school for a marketing degree and she found it equally frightening, and could see no legitimate reason for its existance.

[BoyLegs]

Yes we have the store loyalty cards too. Tesco Club card and Sainsbury reward card to name but two. You get a 1% discount. They never worry me too much. Just get on and shop, life is too short! If you don't want to be tracked, pay cash and don't use the card.

In the states, we're probably 5-10 years away from the point where you will have to give the retailer information about yourself and agree to accept email (or bluetooth messages on your phone) in order to get any price break. Retailers hate to give discounts to incent people to buy what they were going to buy anyway. For various reasons, retailers have become coupon and promo junkies, and have been looking for a way to kick the habit for years. What the retailer wants is to identify you, know what you're going to buy anyway, and cross-sell related items, possibly with some promo, to expand your use of the store. Those who don't want to share information about themselves will simply pay list price for everything.

[thedesigner]

the best thing about microchips is they dont take long to cook....

[Bubba136]

Here a chip, there a chip, every where a chip-chip; Oooooooooh,,,,,,,,,, O'ld McDonald had a microchip, eeeeee iiiiiiii eeee iiiiii ooooooooooh:lmao:

[Firefox]

You know what, all this data gathering doesn't worry me in the slightest. I don't induldge in illegal things apart from the odd bit of speeding and connecting to open wireless networks, so I've not too much to fear from big brother. People are welcome to collect all the data they want about what beer I drink and what heels I wear. And if they want to send me some promotions for free beer and heels, so much the better! They can also take photos of me in the street and post them on You Tube or flickr for all I care. Life is too short for me to worry about all that crap, I've got more interesting things to do

[Bubba136]

You got that straight, FF

[tightsnheels]

Here a chip, there a chip, every where a chip-chip; Oooooooooh,,,,,,,,,,

O'ld McDonald had a microchip, eeeeee iiiiiiii eeee iiiiii ooooooooooh:lmao:

I don't know if it is the same on the other side of the pond but chips on a farm over here do have an entirely differant meaning, yet they are basicaly the same thing we were talking about. Kinda funny really. (Yes, I did notice that Bubba is on my side of the pond.)

Mrs. T&H actually looked at the site for the first time the other day to see some of your responses and to get a feel for other peoples reactions on the subject. Her first response was she likes you guys. She is going to share the report with her internaional marketing class this evening. So, I'm waiting impatiatantly to here the results.

I'll keep you posted,

T&H

[Guy N. Heels]

It's ironic that we call country "The Land of the Free". We are already the most tracked, catalogued, analyzed and dossiered people on the face of Planet Earth. Our buying habits are already tracked through credit and debit cards while our online activities are tracked through Internet cookies. Go to a store you haven't dealt with before and make a purchase with a credit or debit card. Chances are very good you will soon begin receiving sales flyers from that store -- they tracked your mailing address through the card.

Most of this data mining is performed by the private sector to track our buying habits, to target marketing campaigns and to drive product development. But I think the RFID tracking is going to be considered a step too far. For those concerned about privacy, I can visualize the "RFID zapper" -- a device that overloads the RFID tag and burns out the chip to render it inert. It will be available on underground web-sites first, then Ronco will come out with one on the Home Shopping channel (RFID tagged, of course). Then it will hit the shelves at Wal-Mart.

Come to think of it, I'd bet an RFID tag wouldn't last long in a microwave oven!

Looks like we now have no more privacy than a goldfish.

Seriously, I doubt if you could zap the chip in a microwave oven without risking a fire. Besides, the military has used "radiation hardened" chips for decades. So what's to stop the private sector from buying those same chips? So now we're back to no more privacy than a goldfish.

[Dr. Shoe]

All we have to do is meet up and swap chips. If everyone did this often enough then it would render all the information gathered worthless. Having said that I can see a day when we will walk past panels and they will illuminate with personalised messages.

[sendra45]

Ronco will come out with

Are they still in business?

Nevertheless, there willbe a way to 'nuke em' somebody will come up with a plan.

[yozz]

All we have to do is meet up and swap chips. If everyone did this often enough then it would render all the information gathered worthless.

Once all the chips are in place it will be a small step to pass a law that makes it

illegal to destroy or swap chips.

Anyway the problem is not with the intended use. It is more with the abuse.

I remember cases of burglars getting information from people working at insurance

companies, so that they would know where there were things to steal.

This is a bit similar. With the proper electronics some criminal could go through a street

and 'see' exactly where people would have certain valuable items.

And I am sure I am missing the really creative applications.

[Firefox]

A law could be passed but it would be pretty much unenforcable. People are always swapping and selling stuff. The application has more to do with marketing information I reckon.

[jmc]

Are they still in business?

Ronco is still very much around, as is Ron Popeil (although he is retired now).

Besides, the military has used "radiation hardened" chips for decades. So what's to stop the private sector from buying those same chips?

Price. Radiation-hardened chips are pricey. I don't see anybody shucking out the $$$ for rad-hard RFID tags no matter how nosey they are. Further, RFID tags have to be somewhat sensitive to radio-frequency energy -- it is kind of a necessity for that application. A highly-directed beam of intense RF energy will reduce them to amorphous silicon, regardless of how hardened they were. At that point they will be no more responsive than a handful of beach sand.

[Dr. Shoe]

Once all the chips are in place it will be a small step to pass a law that makes it

illegal to destroy or swap chips.

Anyway the problem is not with the intended use. It is more with the abuse.

I remember cases of burglars getting information from people working at insurance

companies, so that they would know where there were things to steal.

This is a bit similar. With the proper electronics some criminal could go through a street

and 'see' exactly where people would have certain valuable items.

And I am sure I am missing the really creative applications.

Actually I don't think that these scenarios will actually happen. Firstly they will have to pass a law that states that it is illegal to sell or buy secondhand goods, lend a friend something and to give gifts. This will be a fundemental infringement of human rights as all cultures and religions have gifting holidays such as Christmas, Diwali, Khanuka, Ede etc. How are you going to be able to give a wedding or birthday present? Secondly, it will be illegal to give prizes and as most prize competitions are part of a data gathering and advertising excercise it will hurt the very people the legislation is meant to protect.

Secondly, I reckon that the readers will read the serial numbers of chips and only the suppliers will know which goods these apply to and the information is likely to be classified. This is because a supplier is unlikely to want their competitors to know who their customers are.

Also, burglars are unlike to steal anything that can be easily tracked so therefore burglary is likely to drop rather than increase.