More stretching needed!

[Puffer]

As a ‘toe in the water’ experiment (apt phrase – as will shortly become clear), I recently invested in a pair of Evans Essence loafers (style 6400) in the largest size made, described as 10E (which is UK sizing). These shoes are essentially masculine in appearance, apart from the almost 3” chunky heel, and looked ideal for a cautious first-timer; see pic below.

Although I normally wear a size 11 (45), my understanding is that Evans sizes run large and I hoped these shoes would fit me. Alas, they proved almost impossible to get on at all and I am doubtful that they were even a true size 10. However, as they are of good quality and all leather (apart from sole and heel), I decided to try some careful stretching. Having read the collective (and slightly contradictory) wisdom in HHP on stretching, I was not entirely sure what technique would work but decided to try a water/isopropyl alcohol/soap mixture, together with adjustable shoe trees and extra newspaper stuffing.

Getting hold of isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) in the UK does not seem to be easy. Even the independent pharmacies said that they were unable to supply - or maybe just unwilling. Boots told me that it ‘couldn’t sell alcohol’, which ignores the composition of methylated spirit and surgical spirit, both of which are freely available! Then, by chance, I discovered that Maplin sells IPA in 400ml aerosols and 1 litre cans; made by Servisol, it is widely used in cleaning electronic items, switchgear, tape heads etc. I bought the litre can for £10.99. I don’t know the concentration but it seems fairly high, as one would expect when intended for cleaning purposes.

A few experiments showed that a mixture of about 2 parts water + 1 part IPA + a few drops of washing-up liquid would wet leather nicely and not evaporate too quickly. I duly wetted the inside of the shoes thoroughly and rubbed more mixture into the outsides with a rag. After inserting the shoe trees and paper stuffing, I left the shoes for several hours. They did indeed stretch slightly (length and width) and I could then just get them on. I repeated the exercise twice more and achieved a further stretch in the tightest places but, alas, could still not get them to fit me without significant pain. The shoes were not damaged at all (apart from very slight creasing of the leather, as one would expect when any new shoe is first put on) but I am reluctant to try any more stretching. I think that the very blunt toebox and fairly robust construction militates against much stretching, at least lengthwise. (As an aside, I have found that I can usually get into a 10 in the more pointed styles of men’s shoes; indeed, an 11 is too roomy and certainly too long in the toe.)

I therefore have a pair of brand new, good quality shoes which are slightly stretched and would comfortably fit a medium-width size 10 foot – which is not much use to me with my size 11 feet. So, unless anyone can offer some further advice on making them fit, I shall offer them for sale. Any ideas, please?

[vector]

I would have exchanged them for a larger size (I know, doesn't help now).

[Dr. Shoe]

That's the largest size available Vector.... Shoe amkers use a leather softener to stretch shoes with, it opens the pores in the leather. I doubt you can get anything with the lehgth but the width should stretch up to around half a size. It could be that you might have got a rogue pair that were mis-sized which is why we almost invariably try in the shop...

[Puffer]

Yes, the 10E was the largest size made (as I said before) but I doubt that my pair were wrongly marked, just that the style was less accommodating to a 'one size up' foot than I was led to believe was normal with Essence. I did achieve a stretch in both length and width by my method, albeit not enough. Are you saying, Doctor Shoe, that a proprietary leather softener would likely get better results than my IPA mixture? My understanding is that these softeners are of similar composition - IPA, water and soap - and (as with so many 'branded' products) merely an expensive way of buying a fairly simple substance. Anyway, I've identified a ready source of IPA for those what wants it. (And don't confuse this IPA - isopropyl alcohol - with 'India Pale Ale', an altogether more drinkable stimulant!)

[Guy N. Heels]

Yes, the 10E was the largest size made (as I said before) but I doubt that my pair were wrongly marked, just that the style was less accommodating to a 'one size up' foot than I was led to believe was normal with Essence.

I did achieve a stretch in both length and width by my method, albeit not enough. Are you saying, Doctor Shoe, that a proprietary leather softener would likely get better results than my IPA mixture? My understanding is that these softeners are of similar composition - IPA, water and soap - and (as with so many 'branded' products) merely an expensive way of buying a fairly simple substance. Anyway, I've identified a ready source of IPA for those what wants it. (And don't confuse this IPA - isopropyl alcohol - with 'India Pale Ale', an altogether more drinkable stimulant!)

I must say that I am rather astonished at your posts in a number of respects. First of all, I am utterly confounded at your inability to obtain alcohol. Here in the states $10 would buy you at least a gallon of the stuff. However, I certainly do not approve of using it on leather, except as a cleaning agent. There are leather softeners and conditioners that will assist in getting leather to stretch much better than alcohol or water.

Which brings me to my next point: trying to stretch the lenght of a shoe is, for all intents and purposes, a lost cause. Unless you are speaking of a very minor stretch to accomodate say: an overlong toe, for example, you are never going to stretch the lenght of the shoe enough to be meaningful without risking some serious damage to the shoe. While it may not show up immediately, you are going to put stress on virtually every part of that shoe and, in time, it will start to come apart. A stretch for the width is not the same thing, and a shoe will usually take a lot of stress in that dimension. But if the shoe doesn't fit well in the lenght then your only sensible option is to get another size. You are better off with a size too large than a 1/2 size too small.

[Puffer]

Interesting post, Guy N. Heels; thank you. To respond: 1. Yes, I know that 'rubbing alcohol' and other substances (such as xylene and acetone) are on open retail sale in many US outlets, and at sensible prices. 25 years or so ago, it was not difficult to find them here either. But a great raft of 'health and safety' legislation (largely EU-driven and eagerly adopted by our nanny state) has made it very difficult to buy anything useful, at least outside industrial supplies and quantities. When I was 11 or 12, I regularly bought small quantities of trichloroethylene from the Boots chemists chain (to use as a polystyrene solvent) - but nowadays I could only buy it with extreme difficulty from specialist sources. Yes, it is anaesthetic, carcinogenic and toxic, but so what - I ain't gonna drink it or swim in it! (As an aside - and I for one am not looking for a debate on this - I am also confounded, but by the contrast between the US paranoia about national security (immigration etc) and the freedom with which, once there, one could so easily buy dangerous chemicals, guns and other weapons to kill one's neighbours (or oneself).) 2. Can you (or someone) tell me what the active constituent of proprietary shoe-stretching liquid actually is? If (as I believe) it is IPA or something very similar, I see no reason why a mixture like I used should not be effective. It seemed to work for me and did no harm to the shoes; others have reported similar success. 3. I agree with you about the impraticality of any significant shoe length-stretching. That is why I used only modest pressure and stopped the process before any damage was done. Easing the width did allow the shoes to fit (just) because my feet were no longer compressed, but clearly the limited length was still the barrier to comfort.

[Dr. Shoe]

if you sweet talk a high class cobbler he will probably give or sell you some softener. This is why I suggested it.

[Puffer]

if you sweet talk a high class cobbler he will probably give or sell you some softener.

High class cobblers? There's quite a lot of that generally in my area - but only one of the type you mean! I may try him, but I don't think my shoes will be stretchable without damage. And as I'm not nearly as pretty as your pic suggests you are, Doc , I doubt if my sweet talk will carry much weight - but a modest gratuity might.

I'd still like to know what the active ingredient of softener really is. But if I get some, I can always inhale it deeply and find out (or pass out).

[bigj3650]

well i know that evans shoes always run larger than they should...and their size 10s are indeed true to size...even on that pair, which i, myself have had problems with....however, thats just because of my high instep...could that PERHAPS...be the problem?

[Puffer]

well i know that evans shoes always run larger than they should...and their size 10s are indeed true to size...even on that pair

Isn't that a contradiction in terms, bigj3650? These shoes are probably a true 10E but not any larger. Other Evans shoes may be more generous; I don't know.

I agree that the high-cut top of the shoe (unlike a normal court) will not readily accommodate a wide foot and/or high instep without stretching. The consensus seems to be that some stretching to help here is perfectly possible (as I found myself) and will relieve pressure generally by allowing the foot to spread, but that only helps the length problem marginally.

[bigj3650]

i knww what i ment:smile: ...most evans shoes run large...these ones do but not very much larger....is what i ment

[Guy N. Heels]

Interesting post, Guy N. Heels; thank you. To respond:

2. Can you (or someone) tell me what the active constituent of proprietary shoe-stretching liquid actually is? If (as I believe) it is IPA or something very similar, I see no reason why a mixture like I used should not be effective. It seemed to work for me and did no harm to the shoes; others have reported similar success.

There is a company that produces a product called LEXOL. It is produced in Marietta, Georgia (where I built airplanes) and is available in small quantities (1/2 pt. or less) through Tandy Leather. But they do not reveal the active ingredients. However, I suspect that the main ingredient is lanolin. To understand this you first need to appreciate the fact that leather is a porous man-made product. So the simplist way to make this stuff more supple is to soak it with something and allow the leather itself to absorb the liquid. However, some things are much more harsh than others and, in general, the more natural the agent you employ the better your results should be. Oddly enough, water will get the leather wet, but it also tends to wash out the oils and things you really want in the leather, whereas an oily substance like lanolin will not. Therefore I strongly suspect that lanolin is the chief ingredient in Lexol. But don't forget that a great number of people will not reveal their trade secrets.

[Calv]

Info regarding suppliers of IPA and acetone.

Electronic component suppliers have IPA as a printed board cleaning solvent.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=SA00607

I have an account with CPC, and can obtain IPA for you.

Acetone in quantity is available from glass fibre stockists who sell it for use in the laminated glass fibre industry, for example in boatbuilding. I obtained 25 litres of the stuff from a supplier in Portsmouth for use on my boat. No questions were asked for what was a pretty normal transaction for them. Yacht chandlers will sell litre tins of acetone, but, boy will they rip you off !

xaphod at calv's

[Guy N. Heels]

As an experienced leather crafter, I highly disapprove of the use of acetone, keytone, or any sort of alcohol on leather products. (Unless you plan to soak the leather in it and then set fire to it, after which you can go get another pair.) Believe me, you need to forget about those solvents.

While you really don't want to use water either, yer far and away better off with water than with any of the stuff I've already mentioned above.

[xaphod]

Aside .....

I seem to remember being 'down below' on the boat doing some heavy glass-fibre work (building a big battery box to house 330 Ampere-hours worth of batteries).

Sloshing some of the 25 litres of acetone about with the abandon caused by the acetone being cheap and in surplus caused the air in the confined space to become, shall we say, 'somewhat heady' with fumes. Wow, the colours, man. Now I know why kids sniff the stuff !

Xa

[Firefox]

I've used cheap Tesco's vodka in the past. It works well and doesn't seem to have any adverse effects.

[Bubba136]

I've used cheap Tesco's vodka in the past. It works well and doesn't seem to have any adverse effects.

I sure hope you didn't drive shortly after the Vodka treatment. You probably would have wobbled back and forth across the road and if stopped by the police for driving erratically, I doubt your shoes would have passed a "breathalyzer" test.

[Puffer]

As an experienced leather crafter, I highly disapprove of the use of acetone, keytone, or any sort of alcohol on leather products.

Please don't misunderstand my earlier comments! I was certainly not advocating use of any organic solvents stronger than IPA or similar for leather stretching, merely bemoaning the fact that IPA, acetone, xylene and other solvents are not readily available over-the-counter in the UK although easily found in the US. I have uses for some of these solvents for other hobby purposes, much as Xaphod does, and am aware that they can be bought in larger quantities at sensible prices from trade suppliers - but not in every town.

I'm sure that proprietary shoe-stretching liquids do contain lanolin or something similar to nourish the leather but the carrier must be alcohol, however weak, or some other relatively 'safe' solvent of low volatility as lanolin will not dissolve in water alone. But, when something more than easing a small tight spot in a shoe is required, I'm not going to waste money on an expensive and unknown liquid potentially required in a fair quantity that can probably be made at home if the right ingredients are known. And my experiments with an IPA/water/soap mixture did work up to a point - as does vodka (basically ethanol), it seems!

Yes, Xaphod, you were courting danger when using acetone in a confined space - but as much from the danger of fire as from its toxicity! A friend of mine had a similar experience with a woodworm killer in his loft some years ago; the solvent was trichloroethylene or something very similar: toxic, anaesthetic and carcinogenic but mercifully not flammable. And if the vapour is drawn through a cigarette, highly toxic phosgene is produced - as some have found to their cost when using it for degreasing etc.

[xaphod]

........................

Yes, Xaphod, you were courting danger when using acetone in a confined space - but as much from the danger of fire as from its toxicity!

..............................

And if the vapour is drawn through a cigarette, highly toxic phosgene is produced - as some have found to their cost when using it for degreasing etc.

Hi,

Yup, I know about inflammable acetone. I made a point of removing sources of ignition on the boat, especially all the batteries which could have made an electrical spark, had I dropped a spanner across the terminals, or even turned on a switch. It's surprising how much heavy vapour can build up in the confined areas of a boat, despite having all the hatches open in an attempt to clear it.

Forgot about the problems with smoking and trichloroethylene though !

-----------------------

While we are on (or is it off ? ) the topic, the classical foulup is to unlock the front door.

"Hey, I smell gas !"

Click on the light switch.

BOOM !

Xa

[at9]

While we are on (or is it off ? ) the topic, the classical foulup is to unlock the front door.

"Hey, I smell gas !"

Click on the light switch.

BOOM !

Far more likely to detonate the gas by turning OFF a light. Not much of a spark when you turn it on.

[Puffer]

I'm glad you're fully conscious, Xaphod, (of the pitfalls as well as literally!). Not many folk would think of an accidental battery short as creating an obvious hazard - and the perils of switching on or off any light or appliance when flammable vapour is around ought to be better recognised. I agree with at9 that switching off usually produces a bigger spark (wot, no spark quench on your light switches?) but we only need a small one to ignite the gas! There must be thousands of switches still in use and more than about 30 years old that have poor contacts where a spark is pretty well guaranteed - especially when used with a fluorescent light. I know; I've got some, near the gas meter for example!