Parent worried about my sexuality.

[Jo_Happy]

Hello everyone. First time poster, long time listener. Here is my issue, my father sees on of my canvas/ballet shoes while I am taking a shower and getting ready for work. When I come out of the bathroom he ask "Son...ummm...your shoes over there are alittle....well..girly. Are you ok?" I was a bit shocked at first and I responded "Hehe, dont worry about those and I am fine." Some things to know about my father. He is a southern country Baptists preacher that lives by the Bible and lives strictly by the old ways. I get back from work today. When I walk in the door He says "Son, can we talk about something? I don't mean to pry into your life, but I just have to ask you one question. Are you ok with your sexuality with being a man?" My response is "Yes Dad, I am straight." He then shows me a Bible verse stating women should not wear garments of a man and a man should not wear the garments of a women. I first thought that was foolish since in the World Wars women could only wear dresses, today they can wear anything at all and no one thinks anything of it. When a man wears anything from the slightly feminine he gets regarded as sick, perverted, gay, etc. That situation left me quite upset. My father said nothing more on the subject and went about his business. I imagine he now thinks differently of me now and I do not know if he searched around my things and found my heels. Sorry about the long story, but I felt like I had to share this with someone.

[BobHH]

Yes, it is a major sore point with us, and a favorite topic on HHPlace. I see it every day, as we all do, if you bother to notice. Girls can wear whatever they want - short skirts, bare midriffs, bare feet in flats to high heels, combat boots, jeans, you name it. And if they are pretty, they are cute. And if they aren't, no one cares. But let a man step out of line in a skirt or heels and WHAM! In a way, it's demeaning to women, as they aren't to be taken seriously. The western culture raises them to be sex objects or sexually attractive. Otherwise, why expose the legs, makeup, lipstick, nail polish, high heels, revealing cleavage, etc.? And if they try to dress and act like men (in suits or whatever), then they are not feminine, or worse.

[johnieheel]

I myself am a christian and I donot believe God put a gender on clothing.Go back in history and see who wore what. My how times have changed. The God I know excepts me AS I AM. I could really get into this but this is not the place for it. At any rate, I really don't think you are judged by what you wear. God Bless You All.......

[NewfieGuyInHeels]

When my parents lectured me about my heels, when they found out back in May 2005, I was faced with similar comments. They tried to drill it into my head that this was the Devil getting a hold of me, and no christian man would ever wear heels. I would think if the Devil was after me he'd find something a little more sinister than heels. Then they said that next I'd want to wear skirts, panties, bras, etc. Which totally isn't the case. (I'm not saying it's not fine for some, it's just not my thing) and then when I tried to tell them how supportive my friends are they tried to tell me they were all lying and laughing behind my back. They just don't understand that someone can just LIKE something, they think there has to be a motive for everything. It ended up the they gave me the ultimatum, give them my boots (which was three pairs of boots) or Get out. I wasn't ready to call their bluff, so I gave them my boots. Now I've since bought more, I just keep them well hidden. Anyway, sorry if that got too off topic. My point is, I'm christian too, and I love heels. I really don't see how it can be a religious issue? I only hope that your father can be more understanding that what my parents are. But if you ever need to prove yer not alone, here's a whole website full of guys to show yer not alone!

[wineanddine]

Keep in mind that the bible was written a couple thousand years ago by people who thought the earth was flat and for whom a wheelbarrow would have been a significant technological breakthrough. There is no need to feel like you have to debate ignorance when quotes like that are put forth. Unfortunately, it seems a lot of Christians these days espouse the views of your father. Very sad.

[chris100575]

I'm sure there's a bit in the bible somewhere where it says that you shouldn't shave your beard or wear clothes of mixed fibres either. Although I'm not religious myself, I don't think that the bible is meant to be taken word for word literally. Chris

[Fog]

I'm sure there's a bit in the bible somewhere where it says that you shouldn't shave your beard or wear clothes of mixed fibres either. Although I'm not religious myself, I don't think that the bible is meant to be taken word for word literally.

Chris

It also says "Smite the philistines". No wonder there's trouble in the world. It's an ancient text which most people only read, very selectively, in translation without taking the context and audience into account.

Your dad reminds me of mine - he'd quote bible verses at me in an attempt to modify my behaviour, not that I'd thought of wearing heels when he was alive. However it took me until my mid thirties to finally give up that born again Christianity.

[whynotheels]

I'm fascinated by religion. A couple of years ago, I wore heels and skirts in public to a training course I was attending. It was shortly after I had read a study bible cover to cover. I was quite stressed about the clothes of the oposite sex thing. I was mad at myself because "everyone" knows it's "wrong". Then I was confussed because my wife wears pants and I'm not gonig to hate her for that. It's an off topic, personal question, but I just have to ask. Does your mother wear pants? I'm just really curious and it has nothing to do with this topic. Just curious. If you want to discuss it with your father, you might see what he thinks of the New International Version Study Bible. It explains in the footnotes that the clothes aren't the point of the passage. Rather it is saying that men shouldn't pretend to be women to go places and do things they shouldn't. For example, guys in heels are still guys and that's fine. Guy's dressing up like women so they can sneak into the locker room and get their jollies is VERY gross, disgusting and WRONG! I'm 6' 4" without heels, 6' 8" with heels. I wore a skirt and heels because I liked the fashion. I didn't once try to pass as a girl. As for the gay thing. I worried about that too. Actually, it's quite the reverse. When I went to class in skirt and heels, the guys ran in confussion and the women couldn't stop talking to me.

[Guest]

well like my late Grandma used to tell me when I was a kid "just consider the source!" when it comes to people like some of these parents of you guys out there! (esp. this one that is a babtist preacher) I MAY be the EXEPTION to the rule in that I AM gay, but a gay that HAPPENS to like heels! but to equate the wearing of heels with being GAY,is one of the STUPID things that people STILL think! HAIL IGNORANCE!!

[Fog]

It's an off topic, personal question, but I just have to ask. Does your mother wear pants? I'm just really curious and it has nothing to do with this topic. Just curious.

Some of the devout people I've known in my time railed against women wearing trousers - and that's not that long ago - 30 years. My dad didn't approve of that, but didn't tend to rant about it.

[ShockQueen]

It explains in the footnotes that the clothes aren't the point of the passage. Rather it is saying that men shouldn't pretend to be women to go places and do things they shouldn't. For example, guys in heels are still guys and that's fine. Guy's dressing up like women so they can sneak into the locker room and get their jollies is VERY gross, disgusting and WRONG!

EEEYESSSSS! Finally someone has a more defined explanation of this issue! That makes MUCH more sense, since stiletto heels and the like weren't even invented until much later on.

As has been said time and time again......they're just SHOES and CLOTHES! The type doesn't matter, so why try to berate people who decide to do away with outdated gender stereotypes?

My day just got very much brighter! Thank you!

[Dawn HH]

Jo_Happy:-) Religion has nothing to do with whether you wear heels, or skirts, or whatever. Wear your heels proudly and enjoy them to the fullest. You are definately among friends of a like manner here. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[Jo_Happy]

In a way, it's demeaning to women, as they aren't to be taken seriously. The western culture raises them to be sex objects or sexually attractive. Otherwise, why expose the legs, makeup, lipstick, nail polish, high heels, revealing cleavage, etc.? And if they try to dress and act like men (in suits or whatever), then they are not feminine, or worse.

I guess I never saw it from another point a view, but you do have a point there.

johnieheel: Society put a gender on clothing not God. Unfortunatly this is how people think that is the way God wanted it to be.

NewfieGuyInHeels: I am sorry your parents did that to you. Luckily most of my family are pacificist and the most the will do is look at me funny.

Keep in mind that the bible was written a couple thousand years ago by people who thought the earth was flat and for whom a wheelbarrow would have been a significant technological breakthrough. There is no need to feel like you have to debate ignorance when quotes like that are put forth.

Unfortunately, it seems a lot of Christians these days espouse the views of your father. Very sad.

It is very sad and upsetting indeed. Fortunately my father just said what he needed to say that night and never spoke of it again, but I know he is still thinking about it in the back of his head.

Your dad reminds me of mine - he'd quote bible verses at me in an attempt to modify my behaviour, not that I'd thought of wearing heels when he was alive. However it took me until my mid thirties to finally give up that born again Christianity.

Hehe Actually, my grandparents were the one to always start quoting scripture and verses to me. I see where my father gets it now.

It's an off topic, personal question, but I just have to ask. Does your mother wear pants? I'm just really curious and it has nothing to do with this topic. Just curious.

If you want to discuss it with your father, you might see what he thinks of the New International Version Study Bible. It explains in the footnotes that the clothes aren't the point of the passage.

My mother does wear pants, but she will accept whatever I do in life as long as I take pride in doing it.

That is a good point the New International Version Study Bible bring to mind. I know once I discuss that with him he will just say "Oh ok" and go about his business again.

And I do get more positive attention from women since I have started heeling

Religion has nothing to do with whether you wear heels, or skirts, or whatever. Wear your heels proudly and enjoy them to the fullest. You are definately among friends of a like manner here.

Just his comments yesterday rubbed me the wrong way a bit, but nothing has changed I will just wear my shoes.

[micha]

Whynot heels and Shockqueen, in my opinion you both are doing a big mistake. You are trying to read out from the bible that wearing high heels as a guy isn't a sin. Naturally that's your good right to consult the bible to make up your own decision. But nobody in a democratic society has the right to claim that religous rules are valid for everybody. We all have seen where this is leading to. From the early middle ages until 11/9/2001. I don't believe in any god. I'm simply an atheist. Nevertheless I will always defend the freedom of a tolerant religious belief. I don't care what religion it is. That was the idea of the french philosopher Voltaire or the prussian king "Friedrich II, der Grosse". He said 1740 "All people are equal and good if they are honest in their belief. And if atheists, catholics or turks should come to my country we will build churches and mosques for them". Astonishing actual. This is the historical Enlightment background which is giving me the confidence to defend against any religious tutelage. It's a pity but our own german pope isn't accepting the secular character of the german constitution. In my opinion he isn't better than stubborn muslims :x Does this religious reglementation never stop? We are living in the 21th century and not in the middle age. If I were believing in a God I would cry desperately "Lord, throw brain down from the sky!"

[ShockQueen]

Well, here is something that a good friend told me, which is along the same lines......... You have your religious beliefs, and that's all good and well, but please do not push yours off on me thinking I will change, because all that does is reinforce my own belief. I do still like the interpretation though, which is why it pleased me so much. I don't think anyone will ever dictate to me that heels are wrong or evil, so...........a-clicking away I will go! :-)

[vector]

Listen, the advice on this board is great and very worthy. But, at the end of the day (or after whatever religious/philosophical argument) you live under your parent's roof. So you need to decide if and how far to argue or if and when you'll move into your place (or give up/hide the shoes). Good luck either way.

[Jo_Happy]

Listen, the advice on this board is great and very worthy. But, at the end of the day (or after whatever religious/philosophical argument) you live under your parent's roof. So you need to decide if and how far to argue or if and when you'll move into your place (or give up/hide the shoes).

Good luck either way.

This is my apartment. I am sorry, I must have left that out.

[Shafted]

Jo_Happy, The real issue here is that people in general are confused as to what are moral values and what are social values. They incorrectly assume that if it is not socially "normal" then it is a sin. The truth is many of society's norms are sins. Many people do things that are sinful but are perfectly accepted by society. And nothing ticks me off more that someone quoting Bible scripture out of context as it completely obiterates the intended meaning and can be twisted to serve someones purpose.

[loswabs]

Jo Enjoy wearing your heels and anything else for that matter. Don't get weighed down by the hang-ups of other people or they'll bring you down. You're not hurting anyone are you? No, you're being true to yourself. So stick to that and I hope you have lots of fun. Take care buddy

[sscotty727]

A few things always get me about the "moral majority". 1) The bible says "Judge least thou be judged", yet guys like Pat Robertson sling judgements around all the time. 2) Who was it that Jesus spent time with? It certainly wasn't the self-rightgeous. 3) What is right and what is wrong is in your heart and it is personal between you and God. Not between you and other men. 4) The bible was INSPIRED by God (if you believe) but WRITTEN by men and TRANSLATED over the ages. Things could have been added (on purpose) or mistranslated over time. That is why (if you believe) it is important to let God tell YOU what the words mean, but take it word for word. I agree with others. It isn't wearing the clothes that is the problem, but rather your intent on wearing them. If you wear them for less than honorable purposes (to sneak peaks at women, etc) , than it is more likely a sin than just wearing something you like as a fashion. Scotty

[Guest]

well said, scotty!

[micha]

This is my apartment. I am sorry, I must have left that out.

Jo_Happy,

be glad to have your own apartment. It ensures you a little distance from your family and more personal freedom. But I would never propagate a separation of your family even if they are strong religious. I hope that you will find a "modus vivendi" with your father.

Some years ago I dared the first time in my life to appear at my parents home on high heels. At first my family was shocked about my new footwear but meanwhile they have accepted my "spleen". For me it was very important to be upright and not to hide my passion. What would they think about me if I were dying at a traffic accident and they were finding all those high heels in my shoe closet. Now they are knowing what they have to expect

nice greetings

micha

[dr1819]

The only verse in the Bible which addresses the issue of crossdressing/transvestism at all is Deuteronomy 22:5, which states: "A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this." However, all verses in the Bible must be taken into context. Lest we not forget, Deuteronomy was written at a time when evil was rampant, and was considered something to be purged from Israel. Consider a neighboring verse: "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel." - Deut 22:22. Notice that there is no punishment proscribed for crossdressing. Furthermore, wearing the clothes of the opposite sex was usually done as a ruse for sexual reasons. Do not forget that the lighting at night back then was incredibly poor. Simply dressing in a female's robes was usually enough to convince others that you were female. Men would do this both to gain access to women-only areas, as well as to engage in acts of a sexual nature with other men, a move the Bible does have a punishment for (death). I do not believe the verse was intended to prohibit all manners of dress. Furthermore, clothing back then was very different than it is today. For example, men commonly wore what we could consider dresses and skirts. But back then, those were considered men's clothing, too. If I were to walk throughout Africa or the Middle East wearing a robe, no one would bat an eye. In the US, however, people would call that cross-dressing. In my way of thinking, because of the huge variety of fashion styles available to both women, and to a lesser extent, men, there are only two things which could actually be considered cross-dressing: 1. A woman wearing a jock strap. 2. A man wearing a bra. And the latter would only be if there were no medical need to do so (gynecomastia). Everything else is pretty much fair game, with the caveat that if I were to wear women's clothing with the purpose of trying to look like a woman, that's still considered crossdressing/transvestism, and is often associated with gender identity disorder, yet another DSM-IV attempt to lump people into one category or the other, when in reality gender identity is a continuum, with around 25% of each sex actually thinking and feeling the same way as the opposite sex. Only 10% of those, however, actually do anything about it (crossdress full time, engage in homosexuality, undergo gender reassignment surgery, etc.). The rest simply go on with their lives, many adjusting to the fact that they're different than most, but are still in the company of a quarter of the world's population.

[johnieheel]

Yes Scotti, well said. Also,man has manipulated the Bible to his own selfish satisfaction over the years. Even the sabith which is the last day of the week (Saturday) to Sunday, which is the first day of the week so he can party on Saturday and sober up in church on Sunday to make it to work on Monday. What you wear has no meaning on weather or not you go to heaven or hell. I love my heels and God knows that and He also knows that He is first in my life above all. Thats just me. Happy heeling. Johnieheel

[ILuvHeels]

I know alot of people will not agree with me... But I believe that the Bible is a fiction novel that has aquired "cult" status. Please don't flame me... it's just my opinion.

[Guy N. Heels]

A few things always get me about the "moral majority".

1) The bible says "Judge least thou be judged", yet guys like Pat Robertson sling judgements around all the time.

2) Who was it that Jesus spent time with? It certainly wasn't the self-rightgeous.

3) What is right and what is wrong is in your heart and it is personal between you and God. Not between you and other men.

4) The bible was INSPIRED by God (if you believe) but WRITTEN by men and TRANSLATED over the ages. Things could have been added (on purpose) or mistranslated over time. That is why (if you believe) it is important to let God tell YOU what the words mean, but take it word for word.

I agree with others. It isn't wearing the clothes that is the problem, but rather your intent on wearing them. If you wear them for less than honorable purposes (to sneak peaks at women, etc) , than it is more likely a sin than just wearing something you like as a fashion.

Scotty

Few things in the world are more abused and maligned than the Bible. I've heard well meaning preachers make the most atrocious misquotes to justify their point of view. Perhaps the worst I've seen lately was when Jerry Falwell made the statement on public television that "It is a sin to drink alcohol. Either a thimblefull or a barrelfull will get you in a lake of fire..." Most people, including preachers, don't ever really read the Bible to see what it actually says. Any true bible scholar knows that Jesus Christ's first recorded miracle was when He converted about 180 gallons of water into wine. Also, He was accused of being a winebibber - a tough charge to make of a teetotaler! Christ drank wine and yet never sinned.

The point is, you can never truly know what the Bible says by reading your own views and prejudices INTO it. The only way anyone can know what the bible says is to read it without prejudices.

The next thing is that you cannot win this kind of argument with biblical doctrine - no matter how correct you are. Bigots and people of religious prejudice simply retreat further into their own narrow mindedness. Your best bet is to simply tell your folks you are "straight" and then change the subject.

BTW, that passage in the Bible about men wearing women's clothing pertains to men who had their genitalia removed and then donned female attrie as a pagan religious rite of passage so that they could serve in areas of pagan temples where the temple prostitutes lived and men were not allowed. In effect, these men became women. Such pagan societies often required the women in the society to prostitute themselves in the temple at least once a year. This has absolutely nothing to do with men who have worn skirts (battle, work, and dress) for thousands of years, nor for military men who first wore high heeled boots for riding in mounted combat.

[wineanddine]

To Iluvheels: No, actually you are pretty much right on target. Most people just afraid to confront it. Wineanddine

[johnieheel]

Whats that song they sing in church all the time? OH! JUST AS I AM. Not just how should I be. The God I know, and I do know God, excepts me as I am, heels or not.Thank you. It would be nice for society to do the same. For the most part I think we beat our selfs up way to much over wearing heels in public or other wise. I have been wearing heels in public for a while now and really, most people don't care. Some guys have pink and green hair,dress a little different,wear baggie pants,earings,etc.etc. My 25 year old dautghter has tatooes and buy's me t-shirts,keychainsnand even a high heel jewlery box and other things with high heels on them.She comes over to my house and I am in my heels and she loves that her dad is open minded and we also pray together. So relax,wear your heels and ignor thoes narrow minded people.They have their own issues beond their control and cant be happy with them selfs so they spend way to much time judging others.Happy Heeling Men.

[dr1819]

I know alot of people will not agree with me... But I believe that the Bible is a fiction novel that has aquired "cult" status.

Please don't flame me... it's just my opinion.

And respected! By the way, I took a ton of pictures of the house Abraham was raised in. It's located in Southern Iraq.

If you're interested, I'll post some for you to view.

In the meantime, I've been amazed over the years how many heeling men are believers. I think it's at least half of us. That would be an interesting poll...

Keep the faith!

[Shafted]

Interesting dr1819. I think I should brew up a poll to just that effect. It would be interesting to know.