Hurricane Katrina!!!!!!

[crotchhiboots]

We all know about the devistation that has happened in the gulf states. I would like to appeal to those of us that can help. If you can help with medical or rescue skills Please go down there and volinteer. Those of you that can't please make a donation to the red cross. Thier web adress is redcrossny.org . I have made adonation of $25.00, This is that I am on scocial security dissabilty. If I were working it would be more. BTW Has anybody heard from Danell? He lives in New Orlens.

[Bubba136]

Like I've already posted in another thread, Danielle probably doesn't have power to run his computer or a telephone/modem connection, either. Perhaps he's too busy just trying to remain alive at the moment. However, all our prayers are with him and everyone devistated by Katrina.

[dr1819]

I apologize in advance for the shouting, but it's necessary for emphasis due to the extreme nature of the circumstances.

DO NOT go down to Southern Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, or any other area which is currently without power or the need to support life.

They DO NOT have ANY resources to support/sustain your life (shelter, water, food, sanitation, etc.), and WILL turn you away without question. The entire area is under martial law. Disease and toxic waste are rampant. If you're caught there and you're not a resident, you WILL be arrested without question.

EVERYONE has been ordered out of the area, save for the National Guard and a very few officially-sanctioned agencies who're well-trained to work in these situations.

For more information on how you can help, PLEASE follow the instructions on the following official websites:

http://www.fema.gov/press/2005/katrinadonations.shtm

[Bubba136]

Very sound advice. Besides, the greatest service anyone can provide at the moment is to contribute money. And contribute only to legitimate funds -- like the American Red Cross. As is the case whenever their is a huge natural disaster, a lot of fund raising scams pop up and try to take your money.

[asdf174]

I agree with Bubba136 and dr1819. ... I still wish there was more everyone could do to help then to just donate money though. Just found out that the hospital I work for is partnering with a local radio station here in KC to help donate all kinds of items, first aid, persnal hygene items, baby items so I'll probaly check that out.

[rxrenesis]

The mayor of NO had some very frank comments about the effort of lack of by the feds.

You can hear the interview at www.wwl.com click on the mayor's interview. Caution he is rather bold in this interview.

rx

[Shafted]

The real question is will we ever be able to reclaim the city. When New Orleans was built, it was not below sea level. It was our own tampering with natural processes that created the bowl that the city now lies in. Does it even make sense to even attempt to rebuild the city. What historical value does a newly built city have? Seems like the city will never be the same.

[dr1819]

The mayor of NO had some very frank comments about the effort of lack of by the feds.

You can hear the interview at www.wwl.com click on the mayor's interview. Caution he is rather bold in this interview.

rx

The feds responded in accordance with the checklists and timelimes with which they'd research and planned for.

Be advised the Mayor of New Orleans is a direct reflection of those unlawful elements who remain within New Orleans. It's absolutely impossible for anyone to be elected to the mayoral office of a city with the highest per-capita murder rate in the US without such ties.

Please understand where his rantings/ravings are coming from, and put them into perspective.

[j-turbo2002]

What really gets me is the fact that the residents of New Orleans have only known for 40 years that something like this would eventually happen and yet, they did absolutely nothing to prepare for it. Now, they want to go and criticize the relief efforts - just unbelievable! I am sorry, but when you live on the Gulf Coast like I do, you have to be prepared for hurricanes. You have to have a plan of action. You just cannot sit around and try to wait the storm out - especially a category 5 hurricane! I am serious, when the authorities tell you that you have to evacuate, you better do so. Do not try to be "tough guy" or a hero.

[Bubba136]

The real tragedy in New Orleans is that the Mayor of New Orleans isn't qualified to operate a city. He doesn't have the organizational or managerial experience necessary to plan, organize or conduct a disaster relief program. The news media and opposition politicians are quick to point out our Federal Government's failure to react quickly enough to prevent/relieve the inconvenience that occurs every time there is a natural disaster of biblical proportions - which this is. The fact is that the first line of assistance lies with the local government. Then, the State Government and finally, the Federal Government is the third level of disaster support response -- which is triggered only at the request of local and state government. For instance, the Mayor of New Orleans had at his direct disposition hundreds of school buses that, under the circumstances, he could have deployed and transported thousands of residents away from the inner city to safer ground before the hurricane struck --- which he didn't do. There are more warehouses in New Orleans than the" law allows" stacked to the ceiling with emergency supplies with everything from blankest, army cots, emergency kitchens, water containers, etc., etc., etc......that could have been moved to safe locations prior to the onset of the hurricane....which also wasn't done -- All of these supplies were compromised (ruined) and rendered useless by the flooding of the city. The Department of Home Security of our Federal Government had supplied several million dollars to the city of New Orleans for the purchase of satellite communications devices for use during terrorist attacks and/or natural disasters. The New Orleans city government took these funds, along with the funds provided by the Federal Government for the purchase of "water craft" -- boats for those living in" Rio Linda" -- to be used by civil defense workers to evacuate residents in the event of flooding -- and instead, spent the money on social programs and to supplement federal welfare payments. The list goes on and on. And, I’m sure other examples of ineffective local and state government personnel performance, corruption, and malfeasance will come to light as time passes. These failures should be fully investigated and addressed before criticizing any action of the Federal authorities. When it was recognized that the oncoming hurricane was going to be "the big one" everyone in that city has been forecasting, dreading and planning for, for decades, why didn't the Governor of Louisiana call out the Louisiana National Guard? -- which is under the direct command of the Governor -- until it is federalized. Instead she (the Governor) failed to take a decision because -- like using the school buses and pre-positioning and distributing pre-stocked emergency supplies to places where they could be used -- she said that the cost to the state would have been prohibitive and that the Federal Government was much more able to absorb the cost of providing assistance than the state was..... etc, etc, etc. Federal Government disaster relief assistance was sitting "locked and loaded" on "launch" -- like a racer poised on the starting line, awaiting the starters signal for the race to begin. It never came from either the Governor or the Mayor. FEMA managers finally took matters into their own hands and began dispatching relief convoys only after it became apparent that state and local officials were impotent and unable to react appropriately. There is no emergency communications within the police force, fire department and emergency medical teams. Why? Politicians held the idea that existing government radio systems and communications facilities communications, supplemented by cell telephones, would be adequate which proved to be wrong because these systems became inoperable without commercial electrical power" which was lost almost immediately after the hurricane struck. What did these third world political level politicians do with the money that was supposed to be used to upgrade these systems? Why, they used it to buy votes, of course by supplementing existing welfare programs. Underlying all of this is that the entire city of New Orleans operates on a welfare mentality. By that I mean, when several people were questioned as to why they didn't leave when the order to evacuate was given, their response was that their welfare checks were due to arrive in the next day or two and they wanted to get their checks before they up and left their houses. And, the mindset that the government "owes" them and is responsible for their welfare, comfort and well-being without their having to “lift a finger” in their own support. The" Black Caucus," an organization of Black congressional representatives, refuses to identify citizens of NOLA as refugees, instead they insist they be labeled "victims" of the Bush Administrations poor planning and uncaring for black people......Now, isn't that the "sh**s"? and they are placing both the blame and the cause of the hurricane upon President Bush because he didn't sign the "Kyoto Accord" against global warming and his "let them eat cake" attitude towards all African American citizens of this country. Wow, at a time when the members of the "Black Caucus" should be on the scene providing direction and assistance to the city, they are trying to blame anyone that is not a minority for the situation... When one find himself marooned a desert island after the ship has sunk, one doesn't stand around and wail "I need help -- I deserve help. I am a poor, disadvantaged member of a cruel raciest society and society isn't carrying out their responsibilities by not immediately rescuing me and taking away from this uncomfortable situation by feeding me and seeing that I have air-conditioned facilities to rest in.....the normal instinct for survival, in my way of thinking, would be to take stock of the situation, see what floated ashore from the sinking ship and then survey my surroundings and look for water and food. The old saying about holding one of your hands out in the rain and wish for something with the other, and seeing which one get full faster, is true. You are responsible for helping yourself until rescue is made. And, that is what is sorely lacking in New Orleans. The members of the welfare mentality crowd are incapable of thinking for themselves, yet alone taking care of themselves. (one woman, when handed a FEMA emergency meal which was, as she told a TV interviewer, the first food she had had in more than two days -- said she refused to take it because "it's cold" and "I don't eat such slop." Isn't America great?

[Shafted]

You so hit the nail on the head, Bubba.

[dr1819]

You so hit the nail on the head, Bubba.

Ditto, Shafted.

Bingo, Bubba.

And I lived in New Orleans for seven years, so I know!

FEMA funds should never be given outright. Rather, they should work with multiple locations to determine a broad standard of requirements (satcom, water purification, etc.) then purchase, install, and maintain the equipment FOR the locals.

Giving that money directly to New Orleans was foolish. Both New Orleans and the State of Lousiana have a very long history of corruption.

[Dr. Shoe]

What really gets me is the fact that the residents of New Orleans have only known for 40 years that something like this would eventually happen and yet, they did absolutely nothing to prepare for it. Now, they want to go and criticize the relief efforts - just unbelievable!

I am sorry, but when you live on the Gulf Coast like I do, you have to be prepared for hurricanes. You have to have a plan of action. You just cannot sit around and try to wait the storm out - especially a category 5 hurricane! I am serious, when the authorities tell you that you have to evacuate, you better do so. Do not try to be "tough guy" or a hero.

I agree! The authorities knew Katrina was coming so where were the National Guard? Where were the emergency services? Where were the emergency boats? Surely a coastal city on the banks of one of the world's greatest rivers would have had a flood plan at the very least! Why wasn't the evacuation enforced by the military?

In fact I echo just about everything Bubba said too. This is not the fault of nature, it is not the fault of Global Warming, it is the fault of poor planning. Mind you, any other head of government with the probable exception of T Bliar esq. would have cut short their vacation to have been there wading through shit.

[dr1819]

Dr. Shoe, the National Guard and military response in the wake of Katrina's aftermath was appropriate. Both Bubba and I have worked for the military, and I lived in New Orleans for seven years. Neither the National Guard nor the Military are to blame for current events. Furthermore, here in the United States, it is indeed a United States, meaning our Federal Government doesn't intervene in the lives of it's citizens (contrary to CNN's reporting... ) unless specifically requested by the local and state authorities. The governers of each state possess significantly more power over the citizens of each state than does the President of the United States! Even though this has eroded over the years, it's still the case, not the exception.

[Bubba136]

There a couple of other aspects of this situation that needed to be considered. One is that this same hurricane migrated out of the Atlantic Ocean, completely crossed over the Florida peninsula and back into the open water of the Gulf of Mexico where it turned north towards the mouth of the Mississippi river. President Bush had earlier declared Florida as a disaster area rendering residents of the area eligible for federal assistance and releasing FEMA to send disaster relief assistance into that area. So, FEMA already had a full plate moving equipment, workers and supplies into a area that still was recovering from damage from past hurricanes, when Katrina regained strength and became stronger than forecasters believed it would. The second point to be considered is that the area of devastation is over 90,000 sq miles -- or about the size of the entire British Isles. Now, just consider how large of a problem it would be to try to provide disaster relief assistance to the entire UK simultaneously -- a task that is impossible to perform no matter how well prepared you might be. No matter how you cut it, the local governments of the areas affected by this disaster should have been prepared to "go it alone" for the first 40-72 hours before they could even expect the first trickle of Federal assistance. Which the city of New Orleans wasn't prepared to do.

[Dawn HH]

I agree with you Bubba, and your points are well taken. It may take years to straighten out this mess and even then it may be utterly impossible. Cheers--- Dawn HH

[rxrenesis]

Factoring out emotions, it appears that there had been a failure in planning for "The Big One" at the local & state level. I cannot debate the politics involved but only see the human toll. I've got to restock my hurricane kit tomorrow. Living on the Jersey shore between the ocean & bay, I pay close attention to the the storms and their tracks. rx

[j-turbo2002]

While I was watching the news channels this morning, I was amazed to see that all of these local and state leaders in Louisiana are still wiping their hands clean of any wrong doing during this disaster and in turn focusing all of the attention (blame?) towards the Feds and the Bush administration for not acting quickly enough. It is just unbelievable! It is like I have said before: The state and local authorities along with the residents in Louisiana have only known for 40 years that this was going to happen and yet still, nothing was done. There was no plan of action drawn up by anyone (state, local authorities, residents), etc., etc.. Like Bubba correctly pointed out, the list of wrong doing goes on and on. Yet, people are placing blame on the Feds. Now, we have people saying that Bush failed to act quicker because he does not care about black people. There are those who think that Bush just visited the area for photo opportunities. What will these people think of next?

[Shafted]

What I find unbelievable is the the media once again intentionally overlooks the obvious for fear it will make the Bush administration look good.

[RPMindy]

What I find unbelievable is the the media once again intentionally overlooks the obvious for fear it will make the Bush administration look good.

what the @#$^ #$% #$% ^ &%^* & ^&%^ &!!!!!!!!!!

ok, i'm cool now. I had this long response, but i'm not cool enough to leave it up. not that i'm hating or supporting the president here.

you guys trip me out really!!!! THis is the first thread anywhere on the web that i go that has this tone. i'm amazed, but glad there is diversity in the world.

i think this disaster is a major wakeup call for anyone who watches t.v. this disaster is a sad reminder that not everyone is up to the same speed as the rest of the modern civilized world in the great USA.

Many couldn't leave, not just the poor either. just many couldn't leave. the planning admittedly was poor. a bit naive if you asked me, but poor at best. the federal response, though in the order of magnitute as expect, a bit naive too. why? because, you kinda know you're dealing with a lesser organized and prepare region of the country...

In the grand picture, I'll admit the the response from the feds was on point. why? look at all the other areas that got help in near record time and started a recovery in near record time, if not in record time from the feds. Hands up to Bush and his guys for that. (hands down because that makes it too easy to play the race card by watching t.v.)

my beef is this, why take such political risk to get blame by having less than record response to a highly televised and sensitive area? (no need to answer, there isn't a clear simple answer to this question, nor am i expecting one)

to me, this disaster means one thing.... we need to evalutate how we deal with the poorest of the poor. it's sad that race cards are being played,but i think it's worse that poverty is part of the equation. all the more well todo evacuated. (all races and ethnicities). the poorest of the poor (of all race and ethnicities) stayed behind.... that to me is a tragety (overlooking the obvious that the majority of those who stayed were black.... i'm trying to factor in geogrpahy into that oversight)

i personally dislike the idea that i'm-entitled-to-this-level-of-help-because-you-made-me-this-way. I cant' stand it. I hate it. I try to get rid of it everytime i see it crop up in my mind. but, not everyone strives like i do, and like a lot of you in this thread do.

my last piece for now...... most folks who can comment on the nonsense that took place can't all relate to the situations leading up to it. this disaster is a wake up call for all the victims of the storm (us all) and the refugees from the storm (those who stayed behind). why? at some point in time, these entitled poor folks will need to be enlightened out of the fact they can stay entitled. then, those folks will have to grow out of that mind set. plus in the rebuilding, the powers that be need to plan for the fact these are a bunch of followeres they have. you can't put out an evacuation order and expect them to move without you providing a bus. you need to plan that, why... those folks can't plan it for themselves. just the same way they need to realize, when it's time to go, you gots to go!!!!!! worry about the rest later.

there is no quick fix or solution. i hate this reality like anyone else. i also hate that the race card is up on the table. makes me uncomfortable. just to answer why? i'm sure someone will ask.......... I pushed hard in life to get where i'm at on merit and have been overlooked at times by the race factor, but i made it anyway on merit (or as far as I'm concerned anyway... can't help anyone who chose to put me up/down into a job on the race card only... i don't check the box!!!) i think that race is an issue i can't change for me... i was born the way i was... deal with it and make the world a better place. folks who feel entitled hate me for my deal with it views.... oh well. deal with it:)

blame will go around for weeks, months, maybe years..... bottom line, let's get back to the priority, saving lives and rebuilding. let the politicians play the blame game, the rest of us focus on supporting and rebuilding. this is one time that tolerance and patience will have to be strong and healthy because the economic strain will push and test the most saintly of patient men/women

RPM

[Shafted]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how race even figured into this discussion.

[Dr. Shoe]

While I was watching the news channels this morning, I was amazed to see that all of these local and state leaders in Louisiana are still wiping their hands clean of any wrong doing during this disaster and in turn focusing all of the attention (blame?) towards the Feds and the Bush administration for not acting quickly enough. It is just unbelievable!

It is like I have said before: The state and local authorities along with the residents in Louisiana have only known for 40 years that this was going to happen and yet still, nothing was done. There was no plan of action drawn up by anyone (state, local authorities, residents), etc., etc.. Like Bubba correctly pointed out, the list of wrong doing goes on and on. Yet, people are placing blame on the Feds.

Now, we have people saying that Bush failed to act quicker because he does not care about black people. There are those who think that Bush just visited the area for photo opportunities. What will these people think of next?

Exactly my point. Where were the local emergency services? Surely a city on the coast and next to a major waterway would have had the means to deal with flood if not, the practice!? It's all well and good blaming the federal government and it is true to say that they could have got there quicker (IMO), but it would not have been the disaster that it was if the police department, the fire service, the hospitals, the ambulance service and all the city employees had had all leave cancelled and the off duty personel ordered to report for duty. Why wasn't the national guard called in and placed at key locations around the state to render immediate assistance to the emergency services with army air force (and particularly) navy personel ready to go in at 6 hours notice?

That is exactly what would have happened in a flood vulnerable area in the UK. Whilst serving with the RAF in Lincolnshire I was a member of a "DRT" (disaster Relief Team) trained to assist the emergency services and supply muscle to do jobs like filling sandbags.

[Bubba136]

I don't believe anyone can really find a more complex issue in the United States than the relationship between a "sovereign state” and the federal government.

As dr1819 pointed out:

Furthermore, here in the United States, it is indeed a United States, meaning our Federal Government doesn't intervene in the lives of it's citizens (contrary to CNN's reporting... ) unless specifically requested by the local and state authorities.

And, as they wrote in 1st Samuels, Chapter 2, verse 26: And "therein lies the rub."

The UK has a strong federal government. All military units are part and parcel under the control of an active branch of the military service somewhere up the chain of command. They can be pressed into service at a moment's notice for duty in support of any part and policy the government wants. Here in the United States, the National Guard, while funded primarily by the Federal Government, and to be "called up" in time of national emergency, is strictly under the command and control of the individual State's Governor. The only way this command/control reverts to the federal government is if the federal government "nationalizes" it for one reason or another.

The same situation is true for lines of responsibility for maintenance of public order and safety. The responsibility passes from local (read village, town or city) to county or parish (as in the case of Louisiana) then to the state government and finally to federal authorities. This might sound cumbersome, and perhaps it is. However, it is embedded in the US Constitution. It's called "states rights." The only "legal" way the federal government can intervene in a situation in any single one of the United States is to be invited to do so by the Governor of the state requesting assistance -- or unless the martial law is proclaimed or Writ of Habeas corps is suspended by proper authority.

That being said, the Federal Government, in this case -- and, although ready to come to the assistance of the population of Louisiana -- The Governor never asked for federal intervention.

Now, I will address RPMindy's comments. Firstly, it is common knowledge that the majority of the citizens of New Orleans that chose to remain behind populated the area of the city that is "reserved" for welfare cases. (I believe a reporter from one of New Orleans TV stations referred to the area as the "projects.") You do have a point that some way to deal with the poverty stricken has to be found. However, welfare handouts aren't the way. And, young people in the welfare frame of life are going to have to find out for themselves that depending upon handouts isn't the answer.

This country has been fighting the "war on poverty" for 40 years. We've pumped billions and billions of dollars into this war, and, as of this date, poverty has won. There are just as many, if not more, people living at the poverty level today than there were when the war was declared back in the 1960s.

There's a big difference between the way the two political parties want to handle the situation. Republicans and conservatives believe the best road to solvency is through education, hard work, application of one's intelligence and living within the law, exercising mature judgment and good moral values. Democrats, on the other hand, believe the way to end poverty once in for all and to re-distribute the wealth from the "haves" to those that "don't have a pot to pee in or a window to through it out of." They believe that all people should be educated only to the level of the least intelligent so that everyone will be working from the same level. Their credo that all men are created equal and "no one is better than anyone else." Therefore, qualification or education should never be applied as a prerequisite for any position, job or employment situation. Opportunities are available to all. If the Liberals had their way, all of the names of those interested in a job would go into a hat and the one pulled out would get the job.....never mind that the individual chosen can't even spell "job." If a test is given to a group of students to gauge the level of accomplishment attained during a school year has an unacceptable number of students failing, the passing score is lowered rather than placing the responsibility on the student to study harder to learn the material required.

They also believe that there no individual winners in life. That's why they insist that no sports or games played in primary or middle school can keep score. Though each team get their chance at bat, no runs are counted, no score is kept and at the end of the game, everyone departs the field of battle with their "self-esteem" intact.

Until our politicians at all levels begin to view their jobs as to improve conditions, solve problems and provide leadership for the general public, rather than to insure their reelection, our society will continue to deteriorate in the trough of self pity, corruption and failure.

[stilettos]

The second point to be considered is that the area of devastation is over 90,000 sq miles -- or about the size of the entire British Isles. Now, just consider how large of a problem it would be to try to provide disaster relief assistance to the entire UK simultaneously -- a task that is impossible to perform no matter how well prepared you might be.

While the area of devastation may be about the same size as the Great Britain, over 60 million people live in the British Isles. This way exceeds the number of people affected in the area of devastation so perhaps the comparison of providing disaster relief assistance to the entire UK simultaneously is somewhat over-stated. However I do appreciate that the delivery of assistance across such a wide area is a huge challenge and requires centralised communication and coordination.

[RPMindy]

Bubba, I think you clearly addressed the issue. IF i'm not mistaken, you clarified it quite well and I need not add to it. I agree with you I don't agree with handouts to fix the problem. If that was the case, i'd pack up my efforts and live off handouts. Shafted... ok. i respect that reply you said. in light of what Bubba points out, to me that is where the race card can come in. too many of the refugees are used to the handout system. they need to get up to speed on working to improve their lot in life without relying on the system and complaining about the system.. after that, well, it's up to the populous to decide at polling time. RPM p.s. although all men and women are created equal, not all use their talents equally to get ahead... author unknown

[j-turbo2002]

Well, now we are finding out that the city of New Orleans had a plan. They had plenty of time to implement the plan yet, for some reason, the implementation of the plan failed. You can read about it by clicking on the following link:

http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

I found the following pretty interesting. For the evacuation, the plan states the following:

"The vast majority of our residents will rely on personal vehicles. For those who do not have personal vehicles, municipal and city transportation will be provided to remove you or them to higher ground and shelters throughout the state."

Yet, we are constantly being bombarded with the images of all of the school buses sitting under water. People were simply told to walk to the Superdome, carry their own food, water, and no provisions.

It just makes me wonder if any of the city officials in New Orleans knew that this plan existed.

As I keep scanning through the article, I find more:

"The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed. "

It is amazing, that none of this was done and yet it keeps getting better. Here is more:

"A. Evacuation Time Requirements

Using information developed as part of the Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Task Force and other research, the City of New Orleans has established a maximum acceptable hurricane evacuation time standard for a Category 3 storm event of 72 hours. This is based on clearance time or is the time required to clear all vehicles evacuating in response to a hurricane situation from area roadways. Clearance time begins when the first evacuating vehicle enters the road network and ends when the last evacuating vehicle reaches its destination.

Clearance time also includes the time required by evacuees to secure their homes and prepare to leave (mobilization time); the time spent by evacuees traveling along the road network (travel time); and the time spent by evacuees waiting along the road network due to traffic congestion (delay time). Clearance time does not refer to the time a single vehicle spends traveling on the road network. Evacuation notices or orders will be issued during three stages prior to gale force winds making landfall.

> Precautionary Evacuation Notice: 72 hours or less

> Special Needs Evacuation Order: 8-12 hours after Precautionary Evacuation Notice issued

> General Evacuation Notice: 48 hours or less "

[Bubba136]

The finger pointing and "blame game" has gone on long enough. There are so many people that know for certain things that really aren't so. So, I ran across an article on the internet that clearly outlines the "lines of authority and responsibility" for emergency preparedness and implementation of emergency plans. I found it very interesting and, if you're so inclined to read it, I think it will seperate the facts from emotionally felt non-facts.

Article follows:

Craig Martelle:

FEMA is not a first responder

Don't be so quick to pillory the federal response in New Orleans. Immediate emergency management is primarily a local and state responsibility

Tuesday, September 06, 2005

Editors Note: Craig Martelle, retired as a major in the U.S. Marine Corps, lives in North Huntingdon. He recently launched the Strategic Outlook Institute, a public-policy organization.

As one who has received training by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) in emergency management and also training by the Department of Defense in consequence management, I believe that the federal response in New Orleans needs clarification.

The key to emergency management starts at the local level and expands to the state level. Emergency planning generally does not include any federal guarantees, as there can only be limited ones from the federal level for any local plan. FEMA provides free training, education, assistance and respond in case of an emergency, but the local and state officials run their own emergency management program.

Prior development of an emergency plan, addressing all foreseeable contingencies, is the absolute requirement of the local government --and then they share that plan with the state emergency managers to ensure that the state authorities can provide necessary assets not available at the local level. Additionally, good planning will include applicable elements of the federal government (those located in the local area). These processes are well established, but are contingent upon the personal drive of both hired and elected officials at the local level.

I've reviewed the New Orleans emergency management plan. Here is an important section in the first paragraph.

"We coordinate all city departments and allied state and federal agencies which respond to citywide disasters and emergencies through the development and constant updating of an integrated multi-hazard plan. All requests for federal disaster assistance and federal funding subsequent to disaster declarations are also made through this office. Our authority is defined by the Louisiana Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, Chapter 6 Section 709, Paragraph B, 'Each parish shall maintain a Disaster Agency which, except as otherwise provided under this act, has jurisdiction over and serves the entire parish.' "

Flooded school buses in a lot, New Orleans, Sept. 1.

Check the plan -- the "we" in this case is the office of the mayor, Ray Nagin who was very quick and vocal about blaming everyone but his own office. A telling picture, abovet, taken by The Associated Press on Sept. 1 and widely circulated on the Internet shows a school bus park, apparently filled to capacity with buses, under about four feet of water. If a mandatory evacuation was ordered, why weren't all the taxpayer-purchased buses used in the effort?

Who could have predicted the anarchy resulting as a consequence? The individuals who devolved into lawless animals embarrass the entirety of America. (I worked in a U.S. Embassy overseas for a couple years and I can imagine what foreign diplomats are thinking.) What societal factors would ever lead people to believe that this behavior was even remotely acceptable?

The folks in New Orleans who are perpetrating the violence and lawlessness are not that way because of low income or of race, but because they personally do not have any honor or commitment to higher ideals. The civil-rights leaders should be ashamed at playing the blame game.

The blame is on the individuals. The blame is on the society that allowed these individuals to develop the ideal that the individual is greater than the national pride he is destroying. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was very clear in her comments that she was offended at those who suggested the suffering in New Orleans was prolonged because of race.

As a retired Marine, I hang my head in shame to see my fellow Americans degenerate so far. I spent so many years in the Corps helping the citizens of other countries rise to a higher level of personal responsibility to ensure that in case of emergency, anarchy did not necessarily follow. When people are held to a higher standard of personal responsibility and they accept that, then they will do the right thing when the time comes.

It seems that the mayor of New Orleans is leading the effort in not taking responsibility for his actions. The emergency managers for the state of Louisiana do not have much to say either. The failure in the first 48 hours to provide direction for survivors is theirs to live with. When FEMA was able to take over, it started out behind and had to develop its plan on the fly. Now the federal government has established priorities -- rescue the stranded, evacuate the city, flow in resources and fix the levee. It appears that now there is a plan and it is being systematically executed.

Hurricane Katrina was a national tragedy -- not just in the number of lives lost or the amount of physical damage, but also in the failure of people to do what is right when no one is looking.

[crotchhiboots]

Hello folks I'm sorry that I went off but I had just seen all the damage done on tv and I was horror striken by what I saw. When I suggested that some of you go there I wasen't thinking. I am a careing person and whe I see that kind of stuff my heart goes out to them. Mind you I am not a bleading heart I do have empithy for people that are devistated and some times my heart thinks for me (sometimes the brain is idle and not engaged). Please forgive my outburst?

[Danielinheels]

First, last, and only time saying it: The bus solution proposed, while remarkable, is only so in hindsight. Read on for an interesting article I came across, dispelling the whole bus/Katrina myth:

Do the Math

From: Republicans Table

One of the Republicans' main Katrina talking points is that the local N.O. gov't was primarily at fault for unnecessary deaths as they did not evacuate everyone. They often intone this while showing dozens of flooded Orleans Parish school buses that they believe stand as a silent indictment of Mayor Ray Nagin.

Sep 09, 2005 -- 03:51:04 AM EST

Last night, while flipping channels, I stopped on Fox 'News' and watched as Newt Gingrich was interviewed on Hannity and Colmes. Gingrich did his part and opined that the Mayor Ray Nagin and the city government of N.O. had been negligent in not evacuating everyone since Nagin knew 'days in advance' that the hurricane was coming. 'Days in advance?' You wonder if Newt's ever dealt personally with the reality of preparing for a hurricane.

You always know 'days in advance' that a hurricane's coming -- you just don't know where it's going to land. New Orleans was at the center of the projected landfall area early on -- but nearly every Gulf hurricane aims at New Orleans initially -- it was only Saturday that it began to look seriously like landfall at N.O. On Sunday, Katrina was beefed up and it looked even more ominous for N.O. As we all know, the 'mandatory' evacuation was called late Sunday morning.

So it's clear that Nagin did not have 'days' to evacuate. In fact, Katrina was not even strong enough to seriously consider evacuation until Saturday. She came ashore some 48 hours later. But why not evacuate everybody anyway? There was never a plan to evacuate the sick and infirm -- 'special needs' people is what they called them in the emergency preparedness meetings I attended -- and there was never, NEVER a plan to evacuate them before a storm. They were to be 'sheltered in place' and then evacuated after the storm passed. (I know this as I was one of the 'lucky' few who would remain behind with them.) For many of these people, the act of evacuation alone can be life threatening and many needed to be evacuated to health care facilities. Most health care facilities simply cannot take a major influx of patients without substantial preparation.

But leave the sick aside -- what about all the able-bodied poor? Why not get them out? Well, we're not talking about a handful of people. In N.O., this group numbered at least 100,000 souls. They, too, needed somewhere to go -- just getting out of the city could have been deadly since no hurricane just stops once it comes ashore.

Katrina was no different. She plowed inland and remained a Category 2 hurricane all the way to Hattiesburg, MS -- 111 miles from N.O. It was still at or near Cat 1 when it hit Meridian, MS, nearly 200(!) miles from New Orleans. Katrina left devastation in her wake throughout south and central Mississippi and many, even as far north as Jackson, remain, today, without essential services like water and electricity (my sister, who lives in Hattiesburg, only today had power restored.) Evacuating from the city without getting out of the path of the storm would have been as cruel and possibly even more deadly than not evacuating at all.

But, hey, let's imagine that there was a safe place to evacuate 100,000 people with little or no means to support themselves. Just what would it take to accomplish that? Well, a few simple calculations show that, even with all those flooded school buses, it might have been an insurmountable task. If you assume 100,000 people with 24 hours to evacuate (which, in the case of Katrina, was actually less than 20) you would have to average nearly 4200 people evacuated per hour. Large school buses hold about 75 passengers. That means you'd need over 2600 buses -- BIG buses. End to end they would comprise a line of buses 20 miles long! And, of course, 2600 bus drivers -- drivers that were simply not available according to reports I've heard (using inexperienced drivers may have been as dangerous as just staying put -- driving a bus is not like tooling around in your Honda -- it is a skill unto itself.) As a practical matter, say it took 30 minutes to load a bus, you would have to load close to 100 buses simultaneously, continuously, hour after hour to even begin to get out of town and beat the storm.

What about just making round trips with fewer buses? Not really an option since all the interstates out of the city were operating under 'contra-flow' so all lanes, north- and south-bound, were north-bound only. Returning vehicles would have been like spawning salmon swimming against the tide. The resulting traffic snarl would have been horrendous.

The math just doesn't work. There is no practical, real-world way, given the typical time allowed by an approaching storm and the geographic challenges of New Orleans, to evacuate 100,000 people who cannot provide their own means of transportation. The emergency prep guys in the area knew it and it was obvious to anyone familiar with the demographics of Orleans Parish. I sat through many emergency prep meetings in New Orleans and it was the 'elephant in the room' that nobody really talked about. The official response to a Cat 4 or higher storm was to evacuate -- when they'd say that, some of us would just look at each other and shake our heads. We knew -- and they knew -- it just wasn't plausible.

Post-storm evacuation would be the the only way to go for many low income, as well as ill, residents and we knew that we would be depending on outside help for that. If I had been in my old job in Metairie last Monday, I would have been on top of my hospital searching the skies for those rescue choppers. What we didn't know was how long the wait, and how inadequate that outside help, would be. Our disaster planning did not take into consideration one major threat -- the nonchalant incompetence of the Bush Administration.

long read. I don't blame Bush or anyone else for this. Nobody could have really planned for the events that unfolded immediately following Katrina's landfall. However, a huge bouquet of bricks for the governor of Louisiana, who called off National Guard support not 24 hours after the Hurricane hit and not 24 hours before the levee systems breached. With a situation like this you take all help offered.

Other than that I find it hard to blame anyone for anything, because passing blame does nothing to HELP the situation. I'd rather find out who will do good than who will do less bad.

[BobHH]

Well, I wrote a long response here, but when I hit submit, the site was gone, I was logged off, and the post was lost. GRRRR