Yamyam Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 To some people, there is no justice. Here are two examples. A man owned a vacation cottage. [...] Here in the UK, a man who was regularly threatened in his own home and burgled - has just got out of prison. He fired a shotgun at the latest burglars to attack his place, killing one and wounding another. While I don't agree with the use of deadly force, I think this counts as provocation. Naturally, the youth who was wounded has announced plans to sue for damages... A man was about to be executed in a prison. [...] I can see this. If you've decided to execute someone humanely, then do so. Otherwise you might just as well push them off a cliff and leave them. If society decides that what is required is the removal of someone's life, then it should be done with as much consideration for their human rights as possible. Otherwise, it's basically just brutality in a suit. I also agree with Julietta's point. Child molesters should be helped, counselled, and then kept away from children. My emotional response to this one is at best life imprisonment, I'm afraid. Sometimes I think I should think something else - but I can't, I'm a parent. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 Life imprisonment is the only way for repeat offence paedophiles or rapists in oder to protect society. It's actually cheaper to lock them up than to execute them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilettos Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 It's actually cheaper to lock them up than to execute them anyway. How do you work that out ? Regardless of the cost I am not in favour of the death penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasbumpkin Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 The cost comes in the appeals, lawyers, court time, legal fees, all of that. The people on death row do not have the money for these costs so the government has to pay for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilettos Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 The cost comes in the appeals, lawyers, court time, legal fees, all of that. I still don't understand If somebody is locked up for life they will be just as likely to appeal if they feel the evidence was lacking and/or they are not guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 .... If you've decided to execute someone humanely, then do so. As far as I'm concerned, a humane execution is an oxymoron. click .... click .... click .... The sensual sound of stiletto heels on a hard surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julietta Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 Life imprisonment is the only way for repeat offence paedophiles or rapists in oder to protect society. It's actually cheaper to lock them up than to execute them anyway. Couldn't agree more! Let calm be widespread May the sea glisten like greenstone And the shimmer of summer Dance across your pathway "Communication is a two way thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 1 - The death penalty does not act as a deterrent to most criminals. Well, it does in the sense that if a criminal is dead, then they are not going to commit more crimes. In that sense it's the ultimate deterrent. In the same way, whilst someone is in prison, then they cannot commit more offences against the public. This again is a deterrent. don't know if facing the *possibility* of a death sentence is a deterrent - we've just had a case reported where someone committed a terrorist outrage knowing that their offences would attract the death penalty, because then they'd be a martyr. As for locking people up for life - well, if a mistake has been made, then amends can be made. If they've been executed, then that's really it. On that basis alone, I think life imprisonment is a better course. I agree that repeat sex offenders ought to be jailed for life. It just distresses me deeply that they have to be caught, punished, treated, counselled, and then let out to do it again before we can do something else to them. Oh, and PJ's point - if you are going to kill someone, then do it without unnecessary suffering. A lethal injection, perhaps, but not burning at the stake. I'm not really very secure on this point, so I'm going to handwave a bit, but I don't feel that society is entitled to stoop to torture, even if the criminal did. If we do, then who are we to call ourselves responsible? Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasbumpkin Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 I still don't understand If somebody is locked up for life they will be just as likely to appeal if they feel the evidence was lacking and/or they are not guilty. With the people on death row there are the appeals that are expidited, the appeals for the stay of execution, and all of this. The people that get life in prison are less likely to push for all the appeals that a person on death row has to get a stay of execution. That is where all the money comes in to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azraelle Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 The death penalty IS/WAS a deterrent in those countries where it is/was either immediately enforced, or enforced by means of exacting the death penalty using the same means that the perpetrator used on his/her victim! As also in cases where the death penalty is specified for relatively "frivolous" offenses. Since there is (from what I heard. anyway) a death penalty in Singapore for spitting out gum on the sidewalk (or something similar), I imagine that this is not done very often! Likewise, El Salvadore used to specify the death penalty for drunk driving (don't know whether they still do or not). I imagine partygoers made plans for a sober designated driver. If the death penalty works for frivolous offenses, it is ludicrous to claim that it is not a deterrent to violent criminals. "All that you can decide, is what to do with the time that is given you."--Gandalf, "Life is not tried, it is merely survived -If you're standing outside the fire."--Garth Brooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk4625 Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Since there is (from what I heard. anyway) a death penalty in Singapore for spitting out gum on the sidewalk (or something similar), I imagine that this is not done very often! No but there is one for dope dealing. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shoe Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 In Singapore the penalty for spitting gum and other "unsocial" misdemeanors is Corporal punishment, ie a caning. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 We in the UK however have no 'death penalty', which is such as shame as there are certain criminals that deserve it - and I'm sure you can guess what sort I mean! I'd give them a 'short drop' from the gallows, thus insuring a slow and agonizing death - I could quite see myself stood there in my black ff nylons, 6" black patent heels and black tight skirt suit with my red nails gripping the wooden lever. P.S. and I'd do the job for free! So many shoes & boots to buy in so little time!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 We in the UK however have no 'death penalty', which is such as shame as there are certain criminals that deserve it - and I'm sure you can guess what sort I mean! I'd give them a 'short drop' from the gallows, thus insuring a slow and agonizing death - I could quite see myself stood there in my black ff nylons, 6" black patent heels and black tight skirt suit with my red nails gripping the wooden lever. P.S. and I'd do the job for free! I can't guess what sort you mean Becky. Also, I think your post is distasteful in that it smacks of taking pleasure in people's death. That concept, in my opinion, is as sick as some of the crimes they may have comitted. Most people who support capital punishment would require a quick painless execution such as lethal injection. There's a lot of fetish subjects on this board but to mix such concepts with state execution is a sad viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 lol.........you're such a bible bashing prude Firefox! So many shoes & boots to buy in so little time!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Ah well, you're wrong again there Becky. The bible is the last book I'd subscribe to. Some study of the board and also basic philosophic principles may help in making your arguments a little more cogent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shoe Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I can't guess what sort you mean Becky. Also, I think your post is distasteful in that it smacks of taking pleasure in people's death. That concept, in my opinion, is as sick as some of the crimes they may have comitted. Most people who support capital punishment would require a quick painless execution such as lethal injection. There's a lot of fetish subjects on this board but to mix such concepts with state execution is a sad viewpoint. I quite agree. There are two reasons for a death penalty, the first is to serve as a deterrent and the second is to prevent reoffence. There is no room for sadism even for those who offend in the way hinted at by Becky. We have absolutely no right to mistreat another human being no matter what they have done to any one else otherwise we descend to their level. Graduate footwear designer able to advise and assist on modification and shoe making projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk4625 Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 You should come to America then. Mr Ashcroft has just such a job opening. We in the UK however have no 'death penalty', which is such as shame as there are certain criminals that deserve it - and I'm sure you can guess what sort I mean! I'd give them a 'short drop' from the gallows, thus insuring a slow and agonizing death - I could quite see myself stood there in my black ff nylons, 6" black patent heels and black tight skirt suit with my red nails gripping the wooden lever. P.S. and I'd do the job for free! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Hmm! I think y'all took Becky out of context. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Thank you Bubba So many shoes & boots to buy in so little time!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 You'll have to explain "out of context" to me, Bubba. Taking pleasure in people's deaths is sad, and if was meant to be some kind of joke it is just as sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becky Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Chill out Firefox.........don't take life and every post on this forum so seriously! Becks. So many shoes & boots to buy in so little time!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 I don't take life seriously, if you care to read this forum carefully, you'll see that 2000 times over. If I said "Child abuse is good fun"... oh actually that's a joke I didn't actually mean it , then I don't think most people would think it was very funny. I haven't seen you explain or justify your original remarks. Presumably that's because you can't, and have to resort to flippant comments to attempt to change the subject. All one has to go on in text forums, is what people say. If for example a person wants to post crap in inappropriate places then they should go to a junk forum and do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfly Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 A life sentence in prison, or the death penalty, which one is humane? I don’t think either one is. Your thoughts? Hello,  my name is Hoverfly. I’m a high heel addict…. Weeeeeeeeeee!  👠1998 to 2022! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemanda Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 In South Africa we have a debate raging about the death penalty once again given the barbaric nature of the most recent crime.. the execution style shooting of a baby and the rape and murder of at least 2 women in a hijacking. The question is raised whether the perpetrators deserve to live, given that a life in prison is often viewed as a holiday. I suspect that if it was a majority sort of vote tomorrow the death penalty would be back in a flash and there would be no end of people who would qualify for it. Personally I feel that a murderer/rapist/etc should pay a debt to society... either a kidney, cornea, lung etc... but thats MHO and not official policy. Our constitutional court has outlawed the death penalty, but I am sure there are days when they seriously think they made a bad mistake. A deterent to crime is what we need here, and prison does not remove a lot of those who have taken away others "human rights". Sorry, when you deal with this sort of needless violence and brutality often it is the only deterent. This is not meant to offend... and is MHO only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamyam Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 A life sentence in prison, or the death penalty, which one is humane? I don’t think either one is. Your thoughts? But what else to do? Let people carry on committing crimes until they die of natural causes? I agree, I'm not happy about treating people like that, but then again I want my loved ones to be safe. Overall, I'm happier with prison, as we can let people go if there's been a mistake, but there are some crimes that really make me think that the death penalty is the only appropriate sanction. However, I agree with Dr. Shoe (or at least with what I think he meant) in that if there must be a death penalty, then it should be carried out as humanely as possible, respecting as far as possible the human rights of the person concerned. Obsessed is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as "differently enthusiastic" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba136 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Firefox wrote: You'll have to explain "out of context" to me, Bubba. Taking pleasure in people's deaths is sad, and if was meant to be some kind of joke it is just as sad. Ahhh Man! If I have to point out the obvious in what Becky said, well ????? I don't believe she meant to personally do anyone harm. She's just trying to relate the depth of her feelings about people that commit certain crimes by stating that she believes people that commit them deserve the ultimate punishment. Haven't you ever been angry at someone that you've said that you'd like to "throttle" them? Even if you say that you haven't, I'd not believe you. Like Becky said, don't get so serious. You and Dr. Shoe. Lighten-up. Being mentally comfortable in your own mind is the key to wearing heels in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilettos Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 ...I could quite see myself stood there in my black ff nylons, 6" black patent heels and black tight skirt suit with my red nails gripping the wooden lever.She's just trying to relate the depth of her feelings about people that commit certain crimes by stating that she believes people that commit them deserve the ultimate punishment. :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasbumpkin Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 We could always do what England did......ship them off to an island.....just kidding. What about an eye for an eye, etc. You know what you are getting yourself into when you commit the crime. This would act as deterrents to people because other people would know that you had committed a crime......You know the Scarlet Letter. Where I work we have a guy working security that is also a prison guard at the county correctional facility. They have a great program there that he was telling me about called The Scared Straight Program. It is a half-day program. They bring in kids, you know the ones, the ones that are getting into trouble but have not yet had to go to a lock down facility. They have some of the prisoners talk to them about why they are there, why they should straighten out, then they have the big scary Bubba type prisoner (you know the typical prisoner movie type one I am talking about because there is one that LOOKS the part in every prison, but may or may not act the part) come in and talk to them. Then they give them a tour of the prison. They give them a tour of some empty cells, they tell them to go in and take a look, and they call lock down on the cellblock and the kids are locked in the cells. They are only in there for 10 minutes. From what he told me, most of the kids are scared to death when they hear the cell door lock. They start to cry and ask for mom, etc. Now mind you, the parents are not with the kids when this happens, but they are made aware of the ENTIRE program when they come in, INCLUDING the lockdown. They are told that you will be in there for 10 minutes. In all of the cells there is a toilet, a sink and a cot so they can do all the necessities of life. They can not stand it for 10 minutes; it gives them an idea of what it would be like in there for 10 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefox Posted September 2, 2003 Author Share Posted September 2, 2003 The problem is if you ever do put them in there for 10 months they'll quite possibly come out out drug addicts and more exprienced criminals than when they went in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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