How did September 11th affect you ?

[Dr. Shoe]

On 2002-03-23 10:21, Bob wrote:

Flouride? Mmmmmm... heard about that stuff, isn't it responsible for knackering half the kids teeth in the UK during the seventies?

Perhaps it was all an IRA Plot!

Actually, it is added to water to try to reduce cavities in teeth. Although it does do an admiral job in this regard, it can promote bowel and liver disease, autism, impotence and taken in larger quantities death.

There is a growing campaign to ask the water companies to stop fluoridation because it is considered opinion that there is no longer a need and that the health risks far outweigh the benefits.

[azraelle]

I spent several years in the US Army as a "Chemical Officer" (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Warfare Defense, actually). Additionally I earned my BS degree in agricultural pest management (read pesticide technology). Finally, I spent nearly 13 years at the US Nuclear (bomb) Test Facility in Nevada as a Radiation Control Technician. That said, one of the types of bombs that the US tested before the 1963 test ban treaty made open-air testing illegal, was a conventional explosive bomb encased in plutonium. It doesn't go nuclear, it just spreads lethal plutonium particles all over the place, especially when exploded at about 5000 ft above the surface. No need to worry about access to water reservoirs... And then there's so-called nerve gas. The fact is that Temik, Parathion (these were the baddies in 1981 when I got my degree, no doubt worse ones are in use now), etc, all very dangerous and LEGAL-for-agricultural-use pesticides kill bugs, and people, in exactly the same way as Sarin, the prototypic nerve agent. Sarin is preferred to insecticide because it's minimum lethal dose is about 1/10 that of Parathion, or 1/4 that of Temik. But the lethal dose of Temik is only 0.4mg per kg of body weight, so a sufficient quantity would make a VERY effective poor terrorist's nerve weapon... and you don't even have to spread it on the water--you could spray it into the ventillation system of any large building (Grand Central Station, anyone?). The point is 9/11 was a wake up call to Americans that yes, it CAN happen here, maybe it pulled some people's heads out of the sand to have to admit terrorism is everybody's problem, not just Them over There! _________________ Hi-Heels and Back-Zipper Pants Forever... <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: azraelle on 2002-05-09 08:39 ]</font>

[Dr. Shoe]

Actually, there is a great deal you can do. Keep your eyes and ears open, report any suspiscious activities regardless how trivial, report any unattended luggage. In 99% of the time these things will be totally innocent but if in your entire lifetime you correctly report one incident that saves ten lives, then your life will be worth ten times more than if you didn't!

[Laurieheels]

Considering that one year has now passed us by since this strange and very disturbing event, or events rather, I thuoght I would revive the topic. How do we feel a year later? For me, if anything, there is moer of a sense of sadness for those people who were left without their loved ones. Children without parents, especially. But then, television here has been flooded with stories abuot these people the past few days, so hearing about the sad truth has been a bit omnipresent.

[terayon]

you know, since it was just the Sept 11 1 yr aniversary a few days ago, ive been thinking about it...and i now realise something....alright, it sure sucks that 3000+/- people died by terrorism on that fatefull day....but how is that *ANY* different than when america killed over 300,000 *innocent* civlians when they dropped the atomic bombs on the civilian cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in world war II....sure, some people may say "but that was during wartime", well, osama had declared war on the US years before the attacks.....just something to ponder....is US any better than the terrorists that killed people on Sept 11?....some might argue that they are also terrorists, hiroshima/nagasaki is one...of a long, long list of events when america has flat out murdered innocent civilians......what are you guys opinions on this? just a thought, not meant to offend anyone btw..... -ter

[Francis]

I worry about you francis, you seem to know more about things that go bang than me, and i'm in HM Forces

Don't worry, Bob! My so-called father was Royal Navy on submarines. He had a double job, POMA (Ships Doctor) and Nuclear Physicist (looking after reactor). So it's no surprise that books on things that cause nasty side-effects and stuff that goes bang would fall into my lap.

My favourite was something on the lines of "Ionising Radiaction and it's Effects on Human DNA".

Mutation is not an option with this stuff !!

[Yamyam]

Well, my astonishingly wonderful Dad is a psychologist, but knew how to blow things up, as well as much other useful stuff. I think it's about what people are interested in.

[Renee]

It still does. I live in the Washington D.C. area. For months and months I could not go outside because of the fighter jet noise circling constantly. I used to work a couple of miles from DUlles airport where one took off. Recently they started back and around the July 4th holiday. Over the last year I have had many nightmares about it all.

[Stu]

This is a response to Terayon's post that basically lumps Sept. 11 and Hiroshima/Nagasaki into the same category. In one crude sense, being incinerated by a jet plane crashing into a building differs little from being incinerated by an A-bomb. War is always a despicable, barbaric undertaking, and no one should ever feel pride about killing a fellow human being, even in wartime. Having said that, Terayon, your post is a pile of crap and a textbook example of America bashing. Nothing personal. How does Sept. 11 differ from Hiroshima/Nagasaki? Let me count the ways: 1. The A-bombs ended a war that began by Japan's unprovoked Sept. 11-style sneak attack on Pearl Harbor that killed something like 2,700 people, almost as many people as were killed on Sept. 11. While U.S. policy in the Middle East is always open to debate, the U.S. did nothing to Osama bin Laden or any other Muslim group to merit the Sept. 11 attack. 2. While, as stated above, there is never a reason to feel good about killing, ending WWII with a-bombs resulted in fewer deaths of Japanese as well as Americans than an invasion of the Japanese main islands. (Please don't start reciting the revisionism about the U.S. ignoring other ways to end WWII. None of the alternatives stand up to serious scrutiny.) The Sept. 11 attack, on the other hand, was intentionally planned to kill the greatest number of people possible, including the angling of the planes into the WTC to take out as many floors as possible. 3. The U.S. warned Japan several times to surrender or it would have to use its terrible new weapon. Al-Qaeda provided no (intentional) warning of Sept. 11. 4. Following the end of WWII, the U.S. allowed Emperor Hirohito to stay in power and spent umpteen billions to help rebuild Japan and start it on its way to becoming the economic giant it is today. Al-Qaeda has simply promised more attacks. 5. Despite being the world's only nuclear power for four years after WWII and its dominant military superpower ever since, the U.S. has never used nuclear weapons again. Terrorists with ties to Al-Qaeda in the past year have since tried to blow up airplanes with their shoes, drive truck bombs into U.S. embassies in Southeast Asia, etc. I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I'm not trying to be jingoistic and say that the U.S. is a perfect nation. We make plenty of mistakes, and I understand people around the world have their grievances with us. Criticize the U.S. for its faults, if you wish, but dragging Hiroshima/Nagasaki into this is like blaming the rape victim because of her stiletto heels. Connecting the two is just a big cop out that lets the true perpretrators off the hook.

[texasbumpkin]

September 11th had an impact on the entire world, not matter how trivial. It has affected the economy - people not wanting to travel for the fear of terrorism, the fear of people - a lot of hate crimes commited against people who happen to appear to be of middle eastern disent. I know people who work at the trade center, have relatives that where NYC during the attack, and my brother is at the pentagon sometimes in his job. These attacks were by terrorists......what they try to do is instil TERROR in people, and going about on pins and needles is what they want. We need to move on with our lives, but also remember the heros and the fallen. We do not need to forgive or forget, but cope and deal. This was a horendous thing to do by people who were brain washed. They state that they were doing this for Allah.....If they have ever read the Qur'an they would see where it states that they are to defend themselfs when they are attacked. We did not attack them. They state that they are going this for their religion, but Islam is a peaceful, loving religion, where Mohammed states that we need to love each other and that the All Merciful will judge you on your actions. Muhammad, the last messenger of Allah, was given the Qur’an to spread the world peace and love. The people that take the message and twist it are not being truthful to the religion, and Mohammed’s teachings of peace. Terrorists come to this country, live among us, and then attack us. We have been grateful enough to allow them into our country, and not deport them, in some cases support them, and they give us thanks by killing over 6000 people: civilians, police, firefighters and EMS personnel. Not only did they kill people they have caused major health problems for our nation. There are approximately 500 firefighters that are on medical leave or light duties due to the effects of the attacks. People are going to be suffering from post traumatic stress disorder, respiratory problems – asthma, respiratory infections, World Trade Center cough, and maybe even cancer. These problems are caused by the inhalation of particulate matter of concrete, glass, human ash, metals, smoke inhalation, chemicals that are used in offices-toner, inks, adhesives, plastic, and silicon – cleaning supplies, radioactive isotopes from smoke detectors, asbestos, and other miscellaneous chemicals that are in the buildings. This is going to be a long-term problem for the entire city, where the clean up is constantly stirring up dust and debris. There are those out there that state that a government by the people makes the people a legitamate target, but if they look at the government of the US, they would see that it is not alway run the way that the people want and is not a TRUE democrasey where everything is goverened by the people for the people. People need to realize that this is not a problem just of the united states, this is a global problem. One day they are attacking us, the next they could be attacking another.....Why can't we all get along. We are all short of this world, we should make the best of it and enjoy the diversity and cultures that are here with respect and ah.....everyone is different, I am different from you, and you are different from the next person, and we all have different opinions, but what this world needs is tolerance, and peace.....but governments do not like that, they would then have to focus on their own problems. sorry for rambling.......that is my opinion....I welcome yours

[Bubba136]

For those that believe that the UK and Western Europe are safe from terrorist attacks because the UK and Western European governments and people have always been critical of the injustices perpetrated by America against Muslims, here's a few pertinent paragraphs excerpted from an article published in an English newspaper earlier this week that presents a different view. Gosh, for everyone’s sake, I sure hope they’re wrong. Toxic attack on city is 'likely soon' By Jimmy Burns and Mark Huband in London Published: January 10 2003 22:00 | Last Updated: January 10 2003 22:00 British ministers have been warned by their security advisers that a west European city is "likely" to be the target of a terrorist attack using a chemical or other non-conventional weapon in the short-to-medium term. They have also warned that they cannot be sure they know the identity of more than 50 per cent of people in the UK who might carry out a terrorist attack on behalf of al-Qaeda. Seven men arrested in connection with a suspected plot to use the deadly poison were still being questioned by anti-terrorist police in the UK on Friday and were expected to by charged this weekend. While everyone is looking at what the British can turn up, there is a fear that similar threats could be activated by 'sleepers' in mainland Europe. You won't be told about it publicly but we are all racing to try to see what we can find," a European security source said on Friday

[Dr. Shoe]

Ricin is totally unsuitable as a weapon of mass destruction (paraphrased from an article in the Daily Mail 9-01-03) It is more suitable as an assassination weapon as used against Georgi Markov in 1978 (or was it 77?) Although it takes only a tiny amount (5 microgrammes?) to inflict death, this has to be injected. 500 microgrammes is enough to cause death by ingestion, but it would take several tonnes to poison everyone on the London Underground (Daily Mail, I can't remember the figure but I've thrown my copy away) because they would have to ensure that the air is totally saturated. Moreover, the article said that the particles are heavier than air and so would preciptate very quickly. To a terrorist who is only interested in causing terror, they would introduce it to some foodstuff wait for people to start dying then issue a communique saying that no-one is safe regardless of what they eat. That's how the terrorist mind works. Another interesting point is the fact that these men came from Algeria, which therefore "has-links-to-Al-Qaida" so when are we going to assemble a task force to invade them? They're obviously training terrorists, and clearly developing terror weapons.

[azraelle]

Who mentioned ricin, Dr.Shoe? Other poisons exist, from organophosphate iinsecticide to micotoxin (yellow rain). The technology and formulation for producing Nerve agent has been in existence since WW II, and then there are the relatively inefficient gasses used in WW I. Why bother with trying to contaminate food? It's much more effective (and easier) to dump it in the water supply!

[j-turbo2002]

Well, from what I understand, ricin (in comparison to the many chemical and biological agents that are available to terrorists) is very cheap, somewhat safe, and very easy to manufacture.

On January 7, 2003 GRETA VAN SUSTEREN (host of the Fox News Channels "On the Record") interviewed Dr. MICHAEL ALLSWEDE (a chemical and bioterrorism expert who consults the FBI and the secret police) on the topic of ricin.

To view a partial transcript of the show (I really don't know how long Fox News will leave this up on the Internet):

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74967,00.html

To learn more about Dr. MICHAEL ALLSWEDE:

http://www.centerem.com/dem/faculty/mpa/bio.htm

http://www.biomedsecurity.org/personal/Allswedenew.htm

[j-turbo2002]

I forgot to add the following links. They all come from an interesting site called, "Terrorism Questions and Answers" (you might have already have seen this in one of my earlier postings). These are some interesting facts about terrorist biotech and chemical warfare.

Biological Weapons

Anthrax

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/weapons/anthrax.html

Smallpox

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/weapons/smallpox.html

Other Biological Agents: Botulism, Plague, Tularemia, HFVs

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/weapons/otheragents.html

Chemical Weapons

Sarin

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/weapons/sarin.html

VX

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/weapons/vx.html

Mustard Gas

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/weapons/mustard.html

[Bubba136]

My point, Dr. Shoe, wasn't the weapons to be used it was the fact that, despite all of the rhetoric and support for Muslim causes by “the liberals and people on the left,” Britain and Europe aren't safe either. The fact that these guys came from Algeria isn't relevant. Algeria is currently embroiled in it's own war between traditional and fanatical Muslim factions.

[PJ]

Up until September 11, 2001, security in a lot of places either did not exist or was lax. In the building where I work, before September 11, 2001, our entire security staff consisted of unarmed and low paid guards. Employees and visitors could use two entrances to our building. Employee photo ID's were rarely displayed or scanned. After September 11, we now pay a premium to have two off-duty armed police officers supplement the unarmed staff 24/7. And everyone is restricted to only one entrance to our building. Employee ID's are required to be exposed at all times, and they must be scanned when you enter the building. At another very tall building where we also have offices, they eliminated parking on all four sides of the building, installed concrete barracades all around the building, use dogs to sniff all vehicles entering the loading dock area, and added metal detection equipment for everyone who enters the building. The last time I saw such security measures, I was living in the Philippines when the late-President Marcos ignored the Constitution and instituted martial law. As a result of September 11, 2001, Americans have come to realize that terrorists are not the kind of enemy we are used to fighting. This enemy does not abide by the Geneva Convention. They don't wear uniforms. They don't attack using large groups in a military manner. They believe in stealth in achieving their goals. They strike anywhere, at anytime. They are unpredictable. They are not concerned with their own safety or even escape when they are accomplishing a mission. This kind of enemy is the most dangerous kind. Because of their stealth procedures and unpredictability, it is difficult for potential victims to maintain a heightened sense of security and caution for a long time. Terrorists know how to infiltrate our society. They can work and live amongst us. They don't need weapons of destruction when they pass through our borders. They can find weapons right here. September 11th proved that. And they don't have to be in the midst of an attack to cause terror. I stopped flying back in 1998 because I was aware of the increasing terrorist threat. And you know what? I have not regretted it once. I am not inconvenianced at all. I can get to anywhere I want to travel to by using a car, boat or train. And while they are still potential targets, they are lower priority. And while it's true that some of our European and MidEastern allies have had to deal with forms of terrorism for many years, as time goes by, the weapons become more and more powerful, more compact, and easier to guide to the target. The weapon black market can provide you with almost anything as long as you have the money. As a result, I believe that the potential for wide spread terrorism is increasing. In the past, Americans seemed indifferent to the terror that was happening around the world. But now that it hit home hard, our eyes have been opened widely. Although these terrorists might be small in number, they have found a way of getting anyone's attention. Even their failed attempts make headlines all over the world. How do you live in a country where everything is a potential target and anyone can be potential terrorist? You just live your life as best as you can and take one day at a time. Otherwise, you will become a nervous wreck or extremely paranoid. Way back in the early 1960's, most people may not realize just how close the USSR and the USA got close to global nuclear war. I believe that the main reason why this did not happen was because cooler heads on both sides prevailed. It came down to both sides realizing it was better to stay alive and live with our differences then to fight and destroy each other. But when you are dealing with fanatical terrorists, do they have such a person as a "cool head"? Finally, what saddens me is that there are enough hardships in life that we should concentrate on solving. But factors such as terrorism cause us to divert our talents and resources. Will we ever learn to get along with each other and work together to solve our problems?

[Dr. Shoe]

Who mentioned ricin, Dr.Shoe? Other poisons exist, from organophosphate iinsecticide to micotoxin (yellow rain). The technology and formulation for producing Nerve agent has been in existence since WW II, and then there are the relatively inefficient gasses used in WW I. Why bother with trying to contaminate food? It's much more effective (and easier) to dump it in the water supply!

OK it obviously didn't make the news outside the UK:

Last wednesday, the police raided a flat (apartment) in North London and arrested 6 Algerians and they also found a lab that had been producing Ricin.

It's just that I thought that the ressurection of this thread alluded to it.

[Dr. Shoe]

My point, Dr. Shoe, wasn't the weapons to be used it was the fact that, despite all of the rhetoric and support for Muslim causes by “the liberals and people on the left,” Britain and Europe aren't safe either. The fact that these guys came from Algeria isn't relevant. Algeria is currently embroiled in it's own war between traditional and fanatical Muslim factions.

Oh no, please don't get me wrong, I'm no supporter of "Muslim Causes" in fact I'm opposed to the wearing of Birkkas in the UK on the grounds that it would be impossible to recognise a woman should the need arise, moreover, in western societies, we generally accept that the people who feel the need to cover their faces cannot be trusted- this isn't racism it's a phsychological fact. In Eastern cultures, the wearing of masks is more innocent and Birkkas arose out of a need to protect women from the barbarism of inter-tribal anarchy in which rapes etc were commonplace.

We in the UK are well aware that we're not safe here any more than in the US. No sooner we are rid of the Irish threat, we are threatened by Islamic Fanatics . "Move over I want a go!" ???

I don't know where you get the Idea that Algerians are irellevant. Did you know that they tried to fly an airliner into the Eiffel Tower? Sorry, my wife threw that particular issue of the Daily Mail away! Also, as you quite rightly say they are Isalmic Fanatics, more so than Saddam Hussien and his hench-men.

[azraelle]

As a result of April 19, 1775, the Brittish...

have come to realize that terrorists are not the kind of enemy we are used to fighting. This enemy does not abide by [accepted civilized standards for fighting wars]. They don't wear uniforms. They don't attack using large groups in a military manner. They believe in stealth in achieving their goals. They strike anywhere, at anytime. They are unpredictable...This kind of enemy is the most dangerous kind...[American colonials, e.g.] terrorists, know how to infiltrate our society. They can work and live amongst us...Although these terrorists might be small in number, they have found a way of getting anyone's attention.

Pardon me for misquoting you PJ, but the parallels were too good to pass up. All underdogs resort to such tactics to keep their cause alive. If the Colonials, of which less than 10% actually took an active part in the American Revolution, had resorted to conventional military tactics during the years from 1775-1778, the US would still be a Brittish Subject. I am not saying the Muslims are right, but I AM pointing out the irony that most Americans fail to appreciate. We used the same tactics to win our independence from Great Britain, e.g. it was OK for US to fight OUR war this way, but it is criminal for the Muslims to fight this way???

[PJ]

azraelle; You are very perceptive. I did not mind you misquoting me. Not only do those comments relate to just how we Americans won our independence, but they also apply to some of our allies. Israel used similar tactics in seeking their independence from British rule back in the 1940's. However, semantics plays an important role in this. When we or our allies use unconventional tactics, we are freedom fighters. If our enemies do it, they are terrorists. Even as recently as the Vietnam war did America use tactics that created terror. One example was the FREE FIRE ZONES. This was a tactic where areas of South Vietnam were declared hostile, thereby making everything within those areas a target. And that included all civilians. You did not have to sort out the enemy from the friendlies. If they were in an area designated as a FREE FIRE ZONE, they were all targets. Hmmm, where have I heard this before? Didn't the Nazis use similar tactics during World War 2? And weren't they publicly condemned for doing this at the Nuremburg trials? Terrorism (sometimes called unconventional warfare) is the best method a smaller or weaker force can use to deal aggressively with a larger and more powerful adversary.

[j-turbo2002]

All underdogs resort to such tactics to keep their cause alive.

When we or our allies use unconventional tactics, we are freedom fighters. If our enemies do it, they are terrorists.

I pretty much agree with what both of you have said so far. However, I am all for using unconventional tactics as long as there is some legitimate reason to do so. For the Muslims (or whomever) what could this reason be? What are the "Muslim Causes"?

[Dr. Shoe]

I pretty much agree with what both of you have said so far. However, I am all for using unconventional tactics as long as there is some legitimate reason to do so. For the Muslims (or whomever) what could this reason be? What are the "Muslim Causes"?

The "Muslim Causes" that apply to Al Qaida is to see the entire world worshinpg their god (small g intentional) and following their doctrines.

The cause of the more moderate muslims is to repel the economic and political influences of the west and to be able to live in peace without outside interference.

The cause of Iraq is to protect their people from escalating aggression of the world's only remaining superpower.

Those are the "Muslim Causes".

[Dr. Shoe]

azraelle;

Even as recently as the Vietnam war did America use tactics that created terror. One example was the FREE FIRE ZONES. This was a tactic where areas of South Vietnam were declared hostile, thereby making everything within those areas a target. And that included all civilians. You did not have to sort out the enemy from the friendlies. If they were in an area designated as a FREE FIRE ZONE, they were all targets. Hmmm, where have I heard this before?

Little wonder the Viet Cong won. During the Malay conflict in the 1950's we simply rounded the villagers up and put them in enclosed settlements along with their cattle etc. Cut off from sources of food and support, the rebel forces were soon routed out and illiminated. The lesson is that the villagers were treated with respect and cared for and so sided with the government and UK forces, the Vietnamese were treated as targets and so sided with the people who treated them better.

[Bubba136]

Dr Shoe wrote: "I don't know where you get the Idea that Algerians are irellevant. Did you know that they tried to fly an airliner into the Eiffel Tower? Sorry, my wife threw that particular issue of the Daily Mail away! Also, as you quite rightly say they are Isalmic Fanatics, more so than Saddam Hussien and his hench-men." Once again, you missed my point. It isn't any particualr nationality, it's that terrorst are amongst y'al and your turn's comming (not that I'd wish it on you). However, it pays to be vigilant. However, if you want to "lock the barn after the horse has been stolen," be my guest. I just don't believe the people in Great Britain deserve to have to go through this experience.

[j-turbo2002]

The "Muslim Causes" that apply to Al Qaida is to see the entire world worshinpg their god (small g intentional) and following their doctrines.

The cause of the more moderate muslims is to repel the economic and political influences of the west and to be able to live in peace without outside interference.

Those are the "Muslim Causes".

Oh, come on now! Quit clowning around. You can do better than this! Just use your head and think.

The cause of Iraq is to protect their people from escalating aggression of the world's only remaining superpower.

If the U.S. does attack Iraq it will be toppling the Iraqi regime. If the U.S. does attack Iraq it will be bringing peace, prosperity, and freedom to the oppressed people of Iraq. Something that you are evidently opposed to.

[hoverfly]

Sadam record proves what he is capable of doing. But no thanks to the U.S. supplying technology in the past like bio material and money for weapons to be used against Iraq. Maybe what is happening here is correcting a mistake created by the U.S.? As much as I don't like that, it might prove that they may be more than oil that is the issue.

[Dr. Shoe]

Oh, come on now! Quit clowning around. You can do better than this! Just use your head and think.

If the U.S. does attack Iraq it will be toppling the Iraqi regime. If the U.S. does attack Iraq it will be bringing peace, prosperity, and freedom to the oppressed people of Iraq. Something that you are evidently opposed to.

Ok JT what do you think the "Muslim causes" are? Why do you think that Al Qaida are prepared to fly airliners into buildings and otherwise martyr themselves? Why is it that Palestinian teenagers are prepared to walk into crowded supermarkets in Tel-Aviv and blow themselves up? Why do you think that Pakistan (a more moderate muslim state) is such a fertile recruiting ground for Al Qaida? Why do you think that so many gun shops are springing up in Bagdad (source:BBC news 12-1-03)? Why are Algerians trying to poison us?

Ok I expressed some opinions based on a few snippets of fact. Enlightment us JTurbo, what are these Muslim causes?

If you lived in grinding poverty and you are told by your government that the nasty west is amassing for an attack how would you feel? Would you be worried about your children?

OK I have no time for Saddam Hussein and as I have said before He deserves everything he might get, but the problem is, he will probably get away to Syria or North Korea (?) and leave all the people we are going in to "help" to die on the streets of Bagdad. After all, if you're a marine trying to work your way up Bagdad High Street and someone starts shooting at you with a shot gun what do you do?

[j-turbo2002]

Ok I expressed some opinions based on a few snippets of fact. Enlightment us JTurbo, what are these Muslim causes?

Yes, you are right, you gave us your opinion on how Shoe sees the world. But unfortunately the world that Shoe sees is very different from the real one (what really goes on). I am going to cause a major controversy here but remember, what you are about to read comes from a person who has studied the Muslims in depth and has read many books, magazine publications, etc. And most importantly he has many friends and colleagues how come from and live in the region who he talks to on a daily basis (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Yemen, and Qatar). What are the Muslim Causes? Real simple – there are no Muslim Causes. There is no legitimate reason to use unconventional tactics. I could be brutal and ask you to enlighten us all and show us how I came to that conclusion but I am not. That is not my style. Besides you couldn’t do it anyway because your education span evidently doesn’t go beyond the Daily Mail. Oh wait, let me guess, you already threw that copy away right?

If you lived in grinding poverty and you are told by your government that the nasty west is amassing for an attack how would you feel? Would you be worried about your children?

If I lived in poverty I would be very happy that the U.S. was coming to attack my country. I am once again going to cause another major controversy here but the best thing that could ever happen to country in today’s world is to get involved in a war with the United States. Yes, how did I reach that conclusion, hmmm (hint: don't even try to figure it out because you will not be able to),? I think that I just heard everyone’s jaw hit the floor when they just read this - in disbelief that is!

[Trolldeg]

Yes, you are right, you gave us your opinion on how Shoe sees the world. But unfortunately the world that Shoe sees is very different from the real one (what really goes on). I am going to cause a major controversy here but remember, what you are about to read comes from a person who has studied the Muslims in depth and has read many books, magazine publications, etc. And most importantly he has many friends and colleagues how come from and live in the region who he talks to on a daily basis (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Yemen, and Qatar). What are the Muslim Causes? Real simple – there are no Muslim Causes. There is no legitimate reason to use unconventional tactics. I could be brutal and ask you to enlighten us all and show us how I came to that conclusion but I am not. That is not my style. Besides you couldn’t do it anyway because your education span evidently doesn’t go beyond the Daily Mail. Oh wait, let me guess, you already threw that copy away right?

If I lived in poverty I would be very happy that the U.S. was coming to attack my country. I am once again going to cause another major controversy here but the best thing that could ever happen to country in today’s world is to get involved in a war with the United States. Yes, how did I reach that conclusion, hmmm (hint: don't even try to figure it out because you will not be able to),? I think that I just heard everyone’s jaw hit the floor when they just read this - in disbelief that is!

one word: propaganda