Bad service from Timpson shoe repair. Please advise me.

[benno]

Hi Everyone, I'm looking for a little advice. I bought a pair of Giuseppe Zanotti boots, 'new and boxed' from a seller on Ebay. On the 1st wear the heel of one of the boots literally fell off the boot. The stiletto heel is about 5 inches high and made of plastic or resin. It's not covered in material. The sole stops where the heel starts, so it was easy to remove the heel. The screw (which I have been told is actually a special thick spiral ridged nail) and the 4 thin nails had completely come out of the heel. I took the boot to a branch of Timpsons and was told that it would be £10 to repair. I picked up the boot today and the heel is damaged. It looks like it has been slightly melted. One of the repair nails has obviously pushed through the heel from within and almost burst out. It seems he has then tried to do some buffing to disguise this and the buffing caused the heel to get hot and melt slightly or he had simply buffed to much. I took the boot to be repaired as the Ebay seller wasn't the most intelligent man and I think £10 to repair was a good deal when they were cheap to begin with. If I had bought them from a shop for hundreds of £££s I would have simply returned them. I told the man in the shop that I was not happy. Amazingly he didn't apologise. He simply told me it was a risk of the job. I told him that if he had said 'pay me £10 and I will ruin your boot' I would have not asked him to attempt to repair the boot. He then told me that I should 'paint the heel'. I took the boot from him and asked him for the contact details of the head office. Back home on further inspection, I carefully peeled back the insole and had a look. The guy has used 3 of the thick spiral screw nails and none of the thin nails. One or more of these has obviously cased the damage. Also where he used these screw nails, the 2 at the sides are at and angle and if worn for a while the side of these may push through the padding in the insole and be really painful to wear. Also on close up inspection the heel has been reattached slightly off center by about 2mm. This wouldn't be noticeable on wearing but it's still a factor. Also the black leather sole material is discoloured near the heel and there are a few visible dried glue marks. These last 2 points aren't too bad in isolation, but in light of the work done and the guys attitude they just make me feel even more angry. How should I approach this problem when I write to their customer service department? The boots would cost about £500 when new. I paid about £35 for them off Ebay. Obviously if I had know the outcome there's no way I would have given the job to Timpsons. I don't want to take them for a ride, but I feel really badly treated. To replace the boots would cost more than £35 as I got lucky on Ebay. To fix the boots would require 2 new heels and lots more work and they would still not be as the originals.. I would guess a really top notch repair shop would charge at least £70 to £100 to replace both heels with new ones. I have attached a photo of the boots. Thanks in advance for any advice, Ben

[CRabbit]

Hi Benno, Firstly, the boots are beautiful. It's a crying shame they're in a state of 'dis'repair right now though the heel falling off does explain the reason for the frightfully cheap sale. I would personally take the complaint to the highest in Timpson and demand they not only refund you the cost of the bad repair but also pay for someone else to perform a proper repair on the boots or attempt it again themselves using new heels and a different person. Pictures and examples of cost are always helpful when trying to push your point across. It doesn't matter if you paid full retail price or not. The point of a repair, last I recall, was to fix that which is broken. I don't believe it means to damage further with the hope that it'll hold together long enough to keep the customer quiet. They are in the business of shoe repair and the person who performed this 'repair' simply didn't and I'd vent that point to everyone at Timpson until they get the picture. Hope that helps, C

[Dr. Shoe]

Firstly, they are not genuine GZ boots, no way! However, you do have a case to take matters further and demand a refund for the repair job at the very least. I doubt very much whether you'll get a new pair of GZ boots out of them unless you can get another pair for the same value from your ebay seller and ask Timpson to pay for them...

[benno]

CRabbit, Thanks for your helpful advice. They are indeed great boots. I think the heel falling off has nothing to do with the price I paid. It's simply a coincidence as the other pair I bought are absolutely fine and have the same heel style. Dr. Shoe, I'm not sure how to respond. They are completely and utterly 100% genuine Giuseppe Zanotti boots. I bought another pair from the same seller and they are 100% genuine too. The guy from Ebay sent me another pair of heels by mistake and they were utterly real too. I know how to play the Ebay game and buy and sell shoes as a profit making hobby. The boots ended at a stupid time and the seller is an idiot. He used really poor photos and his auction seemed like a 10 year old had written it. His communication via Ebay was woeful. I also had to complain to Ebay to get him to refund me the postage I paid returning the wrong shoes he sent me. I have the EXACT boots in the photo on my original post. I also have another pair of Zanotti shoes and know what they are like in terms of craftsmanship. I'd be able to spot a fake a mile off. Just because something is cheap doesn't make it a fake. Maybe off the back of a DHL lorry, but not fake. Are you just jealous that I got lucky with my bid? Cheers, Ben

[sendra45]

I cant wait to hear what Lee has to say about this! he loves Timpson. I need a few things repaired and I will consider sending them to the other side of the country for Lee to sort them out. post a picture of the Damage, I am sure he will be able to give some good advice, also, if he does not see this, try contacting him. It is soul destroying when you trust somebody to do something well and they let you down.

[benno]

Thanks, I'll post some photos tomorrow. Funny thing is that I went to Timpson as I was advised to by a couple of little independent repair shops that we usually use!

[Tech]

and demand they not only refund you the cost of the bad repair but also pay for someone else to perform a proper repair on the boots or attempt it again themselves using new heels and a different person.

Thats excessive to say the least. What ever happened to having an apology, and having them repaired properly? Seems these days, folk are far too quick to take somebody to the cleaners over a few pounds worth of work, that might not actually be the repairers fault...

What happens if your mechanic, who you know and trust, fixes your car, only for the same thing to break yet again in a day or so, is it the mechanics fault? No, not always...

So guys, before you all jump on this "Burn them at the stake" bandwagon, I would highly suggest you establish exactly what has happened first..

Could it be a possability that the materials supplied to the person carrying out the repair had a fault that was not known about? Absolutely yes...

My point is, everything in this world is man made, yet so many people expect and even demand, 100% perfection from everything, which is simply not possible, and if you buy cheap shit, dont complain or look for others to blame when it goes wrong...

Same thing when I'm repairing Sony Vaio computers, they are the WORST crap you can buy, and the parts are all shite, but, what to do if the vaio parts are crap, is that my fault?

Too quick to complain before knowing exactly what has happened, or even giving those involved time or opportunity to reply...

It may well be that Timpsons are just crap at repairs, personally, I dont know anything about them, but, each and every time, you should be fair, not shoot somebodies livelyhood out of the sky in a hissy fit when you have only your half of what has happened. By all means post it online, once you have ALL the facts, but not until any matter is concluded.

ok, I'll get off the soapbox now, but thats just my personal opinion...

[manluvheels]

Great post Tech! So right - getting the job done right with a sincere apology is a good, proper way to deal with things. The UK has become so litigious about petty things. Everything is someone else's fault and, "by God they should pay for it". Doh! Wrong! Sometimes s*1t happens! Hmm - Sony Vaio - should I just bin mine then? Just joking, but noted LOL

[benno]

I agree with the last couple of post... BUT what really gets to me was that Timpsons were very happy to take my money and it was all sweetness and light. No mention was made about the possible damage to the boot. And when I pointed out the damage (and I am certain the guy would have been happy to let me walk out of the shop without telling me) there was no apology, nothing. He basically told me to get lost and that it was a risk of the job. There was nothing cheap about the boots I bought. They were bought for a bargain price, but they are not cheap S**T. In the past I have been to a great repair shop in Lewes with an old flatmate. Her expensive boots needed the heels replaced, one heel had snapped in half (her fault). The shop did an amazing, punctual and expert job. You couldn't tell the boots had ever been altered. They looked like new boots and it only cost her about £25. I would have gone to this shop but I can't remember the name and the work I needed seemed like an easy job and not worth driving to Lewes for, when I could take a 5 minute walk into Brighton. Basically some glue and a couple of nails. I don't want to sue. I just want what I paid for and the service agreed upon. I am a graphic designer and If someone isn't happy with my work, I fix it free of charge.

[CRabbit]

... And when I pointed out the damage (and I am certain the guy would have been happy to let me walk out of the shop without telling me) there was no apology, nothing. He basically told me to get lost and that it was a risk of the job.

@Tech: It was this one point that was made in the OP that brought me to the stance that I took regarding this matter. Had the person doing the work apologised for the damage up front rather than spinning the excuses he did then I'd have taken a different stance altogether and I'm sure Benno would have too. Their inability to both do their job and take responsibility for the cosmetic failure of the repair is enough to start pointing fingers in my opinion.

When in a restaurant would you send back your steak because it's cooked to the point where you'd rather eat your shoe? Is there something wrong in asking for the work to be re-done at the expense of Timpson when it wasn't done to satisfaction?

I don't want to sue. I just want what I paid for and the service agreed upon.

I am a graphic designer and If someone isn't happy with my work, I fix it free of charge.

In my line of work I end up going to extreme lengths to correct my failures for free without delay for my clients and I will gladly correct my mistakes to maintain the outwardly appearance of the professional that I believe I am. Naturally, not everyone is as willing to take responsibility as Benno and I.

Anyway, has there been any progress on the matter Benno?

C

[benno]

I'm going to write a letter and send it to Timpson's head office later today. I will let you know the progress. Cheers, Ben

[Tech]

I'm going to write a letter and send it to Timpson's head office later today.

Please tell me you mean an email?

[benno]

Nope, I'm going old school on their backsides.

[Dr. Shoe]

CRabbit, Thanks for your helpful advice. They are indeed great boots. I think the heel falling off has nothing to do with the price I paid. It's simply a coincidence as the other pair I bought are absolutely fine and have the same heel style.

Dr. Shoe, I'm not sure how to respond. They are completely and utterly 100% genuine Giuseppe Zanotti boots. I bought another pair from the same seller and they are 100% genuine too. The guy from Ebay sent me another pair of heels by mistake and they were utterly real too.

I know how to play the Ebay game and buy and sell shoes as a profit making hobby. The boots ended at a stupid time and the seller is an idiot. He used really poor photos and his auction seemed like a 10 year old had written it. His communication via Ebay was woeful. I also had to complain to Ebay to get him to refund me the postage I paid returning the wrong shoes he sent me.

I have the EXACT boots in the photo on my original post. I also have another pair of Zanotti shoes and know what they are like in terms of craftsmanship. I'd be able to spot a fake a mile off. Just because something is cheap doesn't make it a fake. Maybe off the back of a DHL lorry, but not fake.

Are you just jealous that I got lucky with my bid?

Cheers,

Ben

So why didn't you take them along to a Guseppe Zanotti outlet to get them to repair them? They would have done it free of charge if they are indeed genuine.

By the way, what size do you take? Because I can get you a very nice pair of 100% genuine Louboutins for about £150 if you like.

Did you not consider that the lack of language skills was because the seller was Chinese?

Oh, and by the way, even I couldn't spot a fake, some of them are that good. In fact I'd go as far to say that many are so damn good that they aren't actually fakes but replicas.

[benno]

I didn't take them to a Giuseppe Zanotti franchise because it would have meant going to London. £10 seemed like a cheaper option than getting a train to London and spending half a day faffing about! I have trawled the internet and found high resolution, multi agngle photos of the boots from sources such as Net A Porter and Luisa Via Roma and I am 100% happy that the boots I have are real. The guy I bought them from had a very English name and his English was fine. It's just that he's not a very good Ebayer and lacks photographic and people skills. I will take some photos of the boots I have. I will try to make the photos as similar to the Net A Porter ones I found. Everything about the boots I have are exactly the same as the real ones. The leather has the same snake pattern, the suede ties have the same construction and metal ends and the heels are the same. I had an in depth look on ioffer and plenty of the ilovelouboutin dot com type websites. None of them have my boots for sale and the boots they had that were remotely similar were obvious fakes. The designer fakes out there that are convincing are of the simpler styles. There's too many elements to the boots I have to make them cost effective to fake. I'm still confused why you jumped to the conclusion that they are fake. If some loopy old Lord sold me a Ferarri for £5000 would that make it a fake too? Anyway I will now return you to the original programme of what to do about Timpsons, North Street, Brighton and their awful customer service.

[benno]

Here's the photos from Net A Porter and my own side by side. Can we put the fake thing to bed now?

[benno]

Here's the photos of the damage and general shoddyness. There is some glue all around the heel. Thanks, Ben

[pussyinboots]

Here's the photos of the damage and general shoddyness. There is some glue all around the heel.

Thanks,

Ben

Personally - I would not have taken them to a Repairer.

Instead, I would have taken photos - then opened a Dispute with the Seller on EBay and offered photographic evidence to EBay Customer services as proof.

I reckon you would have had a full refund inside 24 hours.

[Dr. Shoe]

Here's the photos from Net A Porter and my own side by side.

Can we put the fake thing to bed now?

If you like.

Did you notice that the seam on the forepart is much lower down on the Net A Porter ones? Take a look at your 4th picture if you don't believe me. Also, you will notice that the stitching is much finer on the NAP ones too. I dunno, it could just be the photograph.

[barney15c]

If you like.

Did you notice that the seam on the forepart is much lower down on the Net A Porter ones? Take a look at your 4th picture if you don't believe me. Also, you will notice that the stitching is much finer on the NAP ones too. I dunno, it could just be the photograph.

I noticed this too, also count the number of vertical sections running down the toe, there are 5 on the net a porter ones and 6 on the other ones, now THIS may be down to size, so the first ones would have to be quite a bit smaller than the size 40's of the ebay ones and i couldnt see a size in the picture supplied. Not disputing they are genuine but an observation based on what Dr Shoe said.

[benno]

I think it's a case of the Net A Porter boots being smaller than the EU40 I have. They could be as small as an EU35 in the Net A Porter images. Small shoes look cuter and I've often noticed they seem to be an EU37 in photos. My girlfriend and I have 2 pairs of the same Kurt Geiger Shoes in Size 40 and 41. They are noticeably different in areas, yet are the same shoe. Also the Net A Porter photos are heavily retouched. I should know as I have spent many an hour retouching images for clients. I personally can't see a difference in the stitch quality. I can see a difference in the quality of the photos though... Mine took all of 10 minutes including making the comparison montages. Pussy in boots. I kept the boots as the seller didn't have any more and I couldn't get another pair for anything like the price I paid. I love them and they are super comfortable. Anyway I wrote an email to Timpson and will keep you posted on the reply. If anyone cares anymore... Cheers, Ben

[Dr. Shoe]

I noticed this too, also count the number of vertical sections running down the toe, there are 5 on the net a porter ones and 6 on the other ones, now THIS may be down to size, so the first ones would have to be quite a bit smaller than the size 40's of the ebay ones and i couldnt see a size in the picture supplied. Not disputing they are genuine but an observation based on what Dr Shoe said.

That could just be variation in the skin texture but I did notice that too.

[Dr. Shoe]

I think it's a case of the Net A Porter boots being smaller than the EU40 I have. They could be as small as an EU35 in the Net A Porter images. Small shoes look cuter and I've often noticed they seem to be an EU37 in photos. My girlfriend and I have 2 pairs of the same Kurt Geiger Shoes in Size 40 and 41. They are noticeably different in areas, yet are the same shoe.

Also the Net A Porter photos are heavily retouched. I should know as I have spent many an hour retouching images for clients. I personally can't see a difference in the stitch quality. I can see a difference in the quality of the photos though... Mine took all of 10 minutes including making the comparison montages.

Pussy in boots. I kept the boots as the seller didn't have any more and I couldn't get another pair for anything like the price I paid. I love them and they are super comfortable.

Anyway I wrote an email to Timpson and will keep you posted on the reply. If anyone cares anymore...

Cheers,

Ben

Well of course I care, sorry.

It really doesn't matter whether they're fakes or not as long as you're happy with them.

[shoerepairer]

Ben

If you haven’t already written to Timpson Post the shoes with a covering letter to James Timpson (CEO) at Timpson Head office, which is

Timpson House

Claverton Road

Wythenshawe

Manchester

M23 9TT

Mention that you have been given his details by Lee Ffrench (he’ll know who I am & won’t want to disappoint!) & that I advised you to send the shoes directly to him he, ask if he can have them sent to one of his centres of excellence & I’m sure they will sort them out 100% for you.

Timpson have there best guys in various workshops specialising in specific work & customer complaints.

From a point of law, you can only expect Timpson to give you the shoes value at the point they where brought in for repair, which is less than your e-bay value, because when you purchased them they where wearable & when you took them into the shop they where not! Annoying but in the small claims court that’s they way!

It looks like it has been slightly melted.

This is not the case! Looking at your photos what has happened is they’ve nailed straight out the side of the heel block & then ground down the tip & caught the heel block, sprayed it & tried to cover up their mistake. There is no heat used in the process.

GOOD LUCK

[benno]

Hi Lee, Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it. After looking at the heel damage a little more I think that your diagnosis is spot on. It does look like it's been filled in and sprayed. The 'repaired' heel has a little bit of 'orange peel' overspray along it. I have received a reply email from a Timpson customer care advisor, asking me to post the boots to her at the address you gave me. I shall include a covering letter to James Timpson. Is your sir name Ffrench of French? I presume it's French but you never know. (Edit I googled you and it's indeed Ffrench. Cool name.) Thanks again, Ben

[Puffer]

Benno: I've come rather late to this interesting if sad saga but a few comments may help, especially if Timpsons does not do the decent thing.

It seems that Timpsons accepted the repair without demur and you were not warned of any possible risks relating to the shoes or the intended process. You are entitled to expect the repairer to do a proper job, using the skills that he professes to have, at a reasonable price.

Clearly, the repair has failed and there is no obvious reason beyond the repairer's control, e.g. an inherent (manufacturing) fault in the shoe that would make proper repair impossible - nor does it seem that the repairer claims this. (A good example would be structural weakness in a moulding or casting that cracks when anything is done to it.)

If the original repair is ineffective or poorly-executed, you are entitled to reject it and require it to be re-done without further charge, if that is possible. If the repairer is unable to do this (because of lack of skill) or is so obviously incompetent or dilatory that it would be unreasonable to give him another go, you are entitled to get it properly repaired elsewhere at his expense. If repair is however impossible because the shoe is now ruined, and there was no inherent fault to cause this, you are entitled to receive the market value of the item in the condition it was in at the time you took it for initial repair, plus the abortive repair costs and your expenses. (It might well be that a nearly-new shoe with no appreciable wear and an obvious repairable fault would have a market value that was almost equal to the difference between replacement cost as new and repair cost charged.)

Do let us know how you get on with this claim. I'm not advocating legal action (nor should that be necessary) but you would certainly be entitled to take it and the threat of a Small Claims Court action is often enough to produce a result. Timpsons may offer some form of arbitration or mediation, probably involving an independent expert opinion on the repair - this is what usually happens when a shoe shop sells shoes which fall apart after a short time and refuses to give a straight refund.

When I lived in Brighton, there were a couple of excellent repairers at Seven Dials - long gone, I fear!

By the way, I do like the boots - high slender heel (what height are they?) and no platform!

[benno]

Hi Puffer, Thanks for the post.

The boots are 5 inches and have a very, very slim internal platform... No more than half an inch including the sole material.

I have posted the boots directly to James Timpson on Lee's advice. I shall see what happens next.

I live at Seven Dials and sadly all we have now is wine bars, shops like Harry Enfield's 'I Saw You Coming' and the Coop 'supermarket'.

Cheers,

Ben

http://youtu.be/pBUzw-0ev_A

[Puffer]

Thanks, Benno - fingers crossed for a result. You might find it useful to ascertain the replacement source and cost of the boots (assuming no more available from your eBay source) in case you need to argue for compensation equal to their true value. What you paid is only relevant if that purchase can be repeated. Yes, Seven Dials has joined the trendy club and is no longer the useful local shopping area it was when I lived close by. We had two shoe repairers and a proper hardware shop (think 'four candles') in Prestonville Road and proper banks instead of fast food outlets etc. And you could drive straight to where you wanted without a long one-way diversion and park free of charge when you got there ...

[benno]

I miss the old days! Somerhill school. Catching newts in St Anne's Wells. etc etc. Still love the dials though. It's got to be one of the best places in Brighton to live. Saying that. We are about to move to East London.

[benno]

It just gets worse. I received the boots back today. To cut a long story short they are a little better than before but they look like they have been done hastily. The heel has been filled and resprayed but it's still awful and covered in tiny hairline scratches.. If had done the repair myself I would still be miserable. I took the boots in, in perfect condition (albeit with the heel removed) and now they look tatty. Thinking of getting the heels replaced at my own cost and sending them the bill. Boo to Timpson.