What if there were full acceptance?

[yozz]

We have here many discussions about acceptance by society and that this is still a long way off. Let us for a moment assume that there would be full acceptance. What percentage of the male population would go around in what we call free style fashion? Of course it depends on how you define acceptance. Would it be tolerating or would it be embracing? Let us for now not be too selective. We know that a certain percentage of the male population likes at least some items of `other shelves clothes', among which shoes are an important item. What would be a realistic percentage of people wearing such shoes, possibly with high heels, in the streets? What would this be for other items of clothing? Or in other words, will we always be one out of many thousands, or would it be one out of ten, or what? Y.

[Thighboots2]

If there were no stigma attached to stiletto heels and men it wouldn't change a thing. Men generally are not fashion animals and seem to care little about how the present themselves to the world. Simon.

[Iamme]

If there were no stigma attached to stiletto heels and men it wouldn't change a thing. Men generally are not fashion animals and seem to care little about how the present themselves to the world.

Simon.

I concur. When I am out on the streets I see a lot of guys and men trying too look their best. Then again, I am talking about teenage guys and adolescent guys. Maybe the older generations of men aren't as fashion obsessed as the younger generations, but I see a lot of guys dressed according to the latest fashion.

Back to the question. I think it's very hard to tell since most of us like to wear items of the 'other shelves' in private. It's impossible tell how many men would actually wear them.

However, if men's fashion would allow for it, I bet that fashion designers will combine heels with men's clothing, and that might result in other men who aren't initially drawn to heels to wear them because it is 'in'.

[wood&metal]

If there were no stigma attached to stiletto heels and men it wouldn't change a thing. Men generally are not fashion animals and seem to care little about how the present themselves to the world.

Simon.

I disagree to a point.. I believe men are actually intuitivly fashion concious as a part of natural selection.. Take a look back on earlier civilization and you might draw the same conclusion.. Colonial America, The French Revolution.. Wigs, highly detailed coats, shoes with HEELS (gasp!).. Look to tribesmen of Africa, Abaroginies (sp?), Native American, where the form of dress has meaning on many levels..

That said, somewhere along the line in the last 40 years or so, it became "acceptable" to go out looking like a...slob...for lack of a better term.

[NewfieGuyInHeels]

I've been silent on the whole acceptance thing for a long time now, but now I feel I need to speak my mind. WHO CARES!!!!!! Geez guys just go out and wear them! If yer gonna wait for 100% acceptance it aint gonna happen but I PROMISE you the general population don't give a crap what's on your feet. I've been wearing my heeled boots for 4 years now, and yes I've gotten some looks but do you know who else has gotten looks.....? Those teenagers with the green hair, the really fat ppl wearing clothes 2 sizes too small, Grandpa's with thier pant waist up to their nipples. Those are just some examples of other ppl who have gote looks for their fashion. Are they gonna stop cause someone looked sidewys at them..... NO! SOME ppl are gonna look for anything to make fun of just cause they have nothing else to look forward to when they wake up. If someone looks at you sideways look at them just as hard back, and if yer with someone, whisper something and point. Me and my gf have dont that an it totally turns the tables around, hilarious results. So join in, have fun, be free. trust me, if you live your life worried all the time someday you'll look back and wonder why you wasted all that time hiding. Sorry for the rant, but that's my outlook on acceptance. Happy heeling!

[Maximilian]

Full acceptance is a broad term. It depends what you mean by it. My understanding by the term is that men in heels would actually be fashionable and that shoes with heels would be considered a unisex item. If it was also considered cool then I'd bet that many men would wear heels when going out. Fashion conscience men are no different than women. They see a popular fashion and want to wear it. If heeled shoes were promoted to be cool/sexy/women like men in heels then you'd see them everywhere. Think about it like this, the next time you go out and spot men who are dressed well, I'd say that men like that would wear heels. However, it seems that most men don't really care how they look most of the time and have poor fashion taste. Comfort/speed is what makes them decide on a style. If heels were acceptable, I doubt those guys would be wearing them.

[Maximilian]

I've been silent on the whole acceptance thing for a long time now, but now I feel I need to speak my mind. WHO CARES!!!!!! Geez guys just go out and wear them! If yer gonna wait for 100% acceptance it aint gonna happen but I PROMISE you the general population don't give a crap what's on your feet. I've been wearing my heeled boots for 4 years now, and yes I've gotten some looks but do you know who else has gotten looks.....? Those teenagers with the green hair, the really fat ppl wearing clothes 2 sizes too small, Grandpa's with thier pant waist up to their nipples. Those are just some examples of other ppl who have gote looks for their fashion. Are they gonna stop cause someone looked sidewys at them..... NO! SOME ppl are gonna look for anything to make fun of just cause they have nothing else to look forward to when they wake up. If someone looks at you sideways look at them just as hard back, and if yer with someone, whisper something and point. Me and my gf have dont that an it totally turns the tables around, hilarious results. So join in, have fun, be free. trust me, if you live your life worried all the time someday you'll look back and wonder why you wasted all that time hiding.

Sorry for the rant, but that's my outlook on acceptance. Happy heeling!

Exactly! I especially love it when I hear the stories about young teenage girls in pijamas and ugg boots/crocs giving looks/giggling at us. Who the F#$@ are they to criticize us?! Or those young guys with their baggy pants sitting below their ass cheeks and underwear in full view. Pathetic and disturbing. Some people just loooove telling others what they think without thinking first about what they look like.

People stare. Always have, always will. We all do it. We all try to size up who is around us, making split second decisions about someone according to their look. Yet most of us keep our opinions to ourselves and that would be the case when someone walks by a man in heels, 99 percent of the time.

Women have had to deal with being sized up like pieces of meat since the dawn of time. Yet it doesn't stop women these days to dress their best and go out in public. Why should it stop us guys? Why would you care what a complete stranger thinks of you?

I have actually had many more comments/stares about a stick I attach to my video camera which enables me to film myself than wearing heels/skirts in public. Go figure.

[NH Heels]

I completely agree with Newfieguyinheels. I also have to thank him for a good laugh as much of the posting lately seems to have been very negative. Life is too short to give a rats behind what other people think. I would rather look back at a life lived to the fullest, instead of a life spent worrying about what some one I may never meet again may have thought of what I what wearing at the moment they saw me. I realize that everyone is free to have their own opinions and sometimes a heated conversation can be a good motivator to get people into action, and I'm not saying that I want to gloss over the reality of our situation. What I am saying is Lighten Up!! If you're really not on board with us and fashion freedom as a whole then I don't know what to tell you. Just thought I'd offer my 2 or 3 cents worth while wearing my stiletto knee boots over my jeans! Cheers Jim

[NH Heels]

Oh and while I'm on my little rant, how about one more though. What if we were all totally accpeting of ourselves. Should it be more important to be happy with yourself than try to be who the rest of the world thinks you should be? I'm happy with who I am and I've also come to the conclusion that alot of people are probably critical of my appearance whether I'm wearing heels or not, so what's the difference. I have almost shoulder lenght brown hair and several earings and when I'm not wearing heels with my normal guy clothes, I'm rockin my cowboy boots. Right of the bat I probably don't fit most peoples idea of what a "normal" guy should look like but I don't really care. I'm not hurting anyone. Thanks for reading.

[roniheels]

I'm really not concerned with acceptance as I am with being myself and wearing what I want to wear. Even in the 70's when many men wore high heels as the fashion trend, there were many other men who looked down at men wearing high heels and didn't accept the men or the fashion. But it didn't matter. men who wanted to wear the platform high heels wore them and said, hey, look at me and what I'm wearing. That's the way I feel about wearing high heels today. I was wearing 5" stiletto high heels the other day and walked by three men who stopped and stared at me as I walked by. They rolled their eyes, whispered some remarks, and went on about their business. And that was fine by me. I ended up in the same area with them a few minutes later and none of them gave me a second glance. But I don't care about their acceptance. I was happy with what I was wearing and that's the bottom line.

[Guest]

hear, hear roniheels-thats exactly my view as well, in the end you only have to be concerned about how YOU feel about what you like to wear on your feet, it doesnt matter WHO doesnt understand the reasons WHY you want to wear what you like-it really only matters if thats how YOU like heels to wear on YOUR feet, noone elses!! one does only go around in this planet ONCE in life, so thats whats important!!

[skirtsnhose]

We have here many discussions about acceptance by society and that this is

still a long way off. Let us for a moment assume that there would be full

acceptance. What percentage of the male population would go around in what

we call free style fashion? Of course it depends on how you define

acceptance. Would it be tolerating or would it be embracing?

Let us for now not be too selective.

We know that a certain percentage of the male population likes at least some

items of `other shelves clothes', among which shoes are an important item.

What would be a realistic percentage of people wearing such shoes, possibly

with high heels, in the streets? What would this be for other items of clothing?

Or in other words, will we always be one out of many thousands, or would it be

one out of ten, or what?

Y.

I'd assume it would be "tolerating," but I don't really care. The single biggest acceptance issues generally are: (1) at home, and (2) at work. I think we don't know what our numbers really are because most of us have some problem (real or perceived) with at least one of those two issues. I think I'm "out there" to a large extent, but I don't take any chances with my fashion choices when it comes to my job. Maybe I could; I just don't know, but I'm not inclined to test what level of acceptance, if any, I would find today. I guess, in a fundamental sense, I am part of the problem.

[blender]

Wow if there was full acceptance, what a wonderful world that would be Saturday night at a night club would be like the floor show scene in the rocky horror picture show, clothes stores would be much bigger to get in the extra styles of clothes that would be available to men, women getting fed up with there partners for taking all day clothes shopping and only coming back with a jumper, mens fashion sense would increase ten fold because they would have to coordinate there clothes more, but then would the clothes and shoes loose there appeal if I could wear what I want?

[raymond.nl]

will we always be one out of many thousands, or would it be one out of ten, or what?

I'd be surprised if it turned out to be better than 1 in 100. Why? Because it currently is less than 1 in 1000 and acceptance already is very high!

Really, I've been wearing 3+" block and tapered heels running an IT company, visiting large corporate clients, taking the kids to school, visiting friends and family and generally living my life as I've always done. I can't read minds but can't remember openly negative comments. I do remember the many positive ones!

It really, really, really is no - big - deal.

Really.

PS: Excuse me for repeating the same story again and again but can we please put a stop to this acceptance nonsense?

[Bubba136]

I'd assume it would be "tolerating," but I don't really care. The single biggest acceptance issues generally are: (1) at home, and (2) at work. I think we don't know what our numbers really are because most of us have some problem (real or perceived) with at least one of those two issues. I think I'm "out there" to a large extent, but I don't take any chances with my fashion choices when it comes to my job. Maybe I could; I just don't know, but I'm not inclined to test what level of acceptance, if any, I would find today. I guess, in a fundamental sense, I am part of the problem.

Now, I'm confused. Firstly, you don't care about about the issue of acceptance. Yet you go into the general public dressed in women's clothing and wearing your high heels just looking for reaction (like you posted in another thread).....poking your finger into societies eye and then are not willing to wear your outfits to work? Color me confused. Do you really cross dress in public for real?

[skirtsnhose]

Now, I'm confused. Firstly, you don't care about about the issue of acceptance. Yet you go into the general public dressed in women's clothing and wearing your high heels just looking for reaction (like you posted in another thread).....poking your finger into societies eye and then are not willing to wear your outfits to work? Color me confused. Do you really cross dress in public for real?

If it makes you feel any better, I recognize it's a contradictory mess. I'm willing to poke my finger in society's eye, but not at the expense of feeding my family. I also recognize that, in the act of poking my finger in society's eye, I enjoy most interactions, including both those where people do not react at all, and those where people react by pretending not to notice. That's all the "acceptance" I believe I can reasonably expect. Were I more willing to push the envelope on the acceptance I don't otherwise care about (i.e., at work), I suspect I would find that it wouldn't be an issue there either, but I don't know that, and I'm not interested in the consequences of being wrong. Like I said, I recognize that I'm part of the "acceptance" problem by simultaneously caring and not caring.

[chizboco]

what an interesting thread it became! i remember when i was 16 yo i used to have very long hair reaching half of my back. it wasn't the fashion style of that age and so many people used to put their criticisms on me very often. that was my look just because i liked. sometimes it was hard to start a talk with a girl or be welcome to a party because i was rejected by my look but i never give up to others opinions even when i had to work harder for what i wanted. taking a look back i realize there is not difference between having long hair in the 80's and wearing high heels today. long hair was supposed to be a women's look in those days and after the years no one have a complain. question is: should i worry for wearing high heels today? fact is people has a big lack of tolerance and acceptance to others. we fight for a piece of land, some money or just the way of thinking... we shouldn't wait for the acceptance of others in any aspect of our lives or we won't live our lives. if so you won't buy the car you like, marry to the woman you love, chose the career you want and of course you won't wear those beautiful high heels you have. Peace and love for us all!

[Thighboots2]

Raymond, I do agree, but you have to wear the right sort of heel for this acceptance - which IMHO you do. If you had said you wore 6" platform sandals (aka stripper type) then I would take you comment with a pinch of salt, but block, taper, cuban styles that really are very masculine indeed/inspired just blend and work perfectly. However it seems to me that these are not the heel styles of choice as there is this somewhat overwhelming desire to wear stiletto heels and nothing else. For those who subscribe to this, then more pity on you as you don't get the pleasure of wearing heels as Ray and I do. Simple solution, stop moaning about it and get our there and just wear what you want to wear, the world come to an end, and neither will yours. If it looks right, then it is right and you will feel comfortablt and confident. How many more times does this have to be said? Study the overall look and don't focus only on shoes. Simon.

[Histiletto]

Let us for a moment assume that there would be full acceptance.

Y.

We already have the model for referencing statistics on this. The women's attitude toward heeling. Agreed, it is not an accurate accounting, but the same reasons will still apply when male heeling is acceptable in society.

Then a new or modified business will have to be initiated: Teaching men how to buy as they coordinate their wardrobe. It will be like the approach women got from men when women needed to repair or maintain their cars. Men will be in the dark and subject to the whims of the ones perceived as knowing.

[vector]

If there were no stigma attached to stiletto heels and men it wouldn't change a thing. Men generally are not fashion animals and seem to care little about how the present themselves to the world.

I disagree. I believe many (most) men already have a curiosity and would wear them if not for the stigma (ex: ear rings). No matter how free we claim to be, societal boundaries do affect many of us.

[Puffer]

If there were no stigma attached to stiletto heels and men it wouldn't change a thing. Men generally are not fashion animals and seem to care little about how the present themselves to the world.

Simon.

I disagree. I believe many (most) men already have a curiosity and would wear them if not for the stigma (ex: ear rings). No matter how free we claim to be, societal boundaries do affect many of us.

You are both right and your views do not wholly clash! I agree with Tb2 that, on the whole, men are not fashionistas - i.e. they do not generally show keen interest in, knowledge of or conformity with the prevailing fashions (male or female). Most will wear what they like and feel comfortable in (often with limited taste!), but with a certain amount of (perhaps unconscious) influence from friends and family and always subject to what is (i) available/affordable; (ii) considered acceptable/practicable (e.g. in the workplace or community). In other words, they will tend to be 'neutral/passive/blind followers' rather than 'active experimenters/trendsetters' when it comes to the overall male look.

But some men will certainly be aware of alternative male clothing/accessories/appearance (which is not necessarily 'fashion' - as that term really implies popular adoption, often for a brief period). Their recognition of at least the potential for dressing and looking 'differently' will cause them to be curious, adventurous, aroused (or whatever) to varying degrees. Some of them (us!) will experiment by flouting convention or indeed practicability by wearing heels and other items not generally associated with men in the prevailing climate.

If stiletto heels were to become an accepted and available high street item for men, then some men would wear them because (i) they were the 'fashion', and therefore to be adopted; and/or (ii) they were different/fun/appealing/height-boosting etc. But I doubt there would be any stampede, even amongst those who would claim to be at the forefront of any trend - and HHMP members would not by themselves tip the balance numerically. The trend in the last couple of years towards men's footwear with a modest cuban heel and more elegant lines (pointed toes, some decoration etc) is definitely a step in the right direction (no pun intended) and might - just might - pave the way for something a little more daring. The shoes in Tb2's avatar are an excellent example of positive progress and are rightly acceptable to almost everyone - but a semi-pointed 3.5" thin-heeled ankle boot worn exposed under narrow jeans is at present just beyond our reach, yet the logical development IMHO and an elegant look which would suit a man of normal build without screaming effeminacy or fetishism.

Let us pray ...

[larkofam]

If there were full acceptance, I would basically live in my heels.